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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:38 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  So my wife, the music teacher, came back to her school after the summer to find that their basement classroom had a humidity of somewhere around 85% as measured by their hydrometer (string instruments are sensitive). A Co-worker had measured it as high as 95% over the summer in the heat. Mold was all over everything.

  The building maintenance guy is a jackazz and thinks nothing is wrong and that maintenance will handle it. I know that not even bleach will kill mold spores, however clean it may look when you're done, and that real testing should be done when the job is complete along with the obvious dehumidifier.

  My wife developed asthma over the past two years. She has worked there for four.

  This is a snooty well-funded private Christian School in the area. Let's call them Christ's Moldy School.

  Her boss is a politician. She will talk a good game, then go off and do whatever she wants. The headmaster is worse. Quitting (or making herself get fired by showing pictures to the parents or the newspaper) would mean that the piddly reimbursements that they've given us for her graduate education would be mine to pay, so we're talking something like 4k plus the loss of her salary. Not a small deal.

  1. Any recourse? Not even OSHA had any regulation for air quality. I have no clue where to look for a standard, but one just has to exist.

  2. Advice? We had a mold guy come to my house to take care of some drainage issues we had. It was pretty cheap. We can't bring the guy in without permission and I'd bet they would dismiss the test-at-home-kit results.

  3. Nuclear option? I'll bet a judge and jury would side with the mother of three music teacher with evidence that she's asked numerous times for the humidity to be controlled and who has now developed asthma, but am I wrong?

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:45 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  Board of health might be interested in this.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:49 p.m. Duke SuperDork

  I second the Board of Health, and the Board of Education. The local building department office who has jurisdiction may well get involved too.

  Some types of mold are not to be fooled with, especially if your wife has developed respiratory issues. Good luck.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:51 p.m. fasted58 Dork

  document everything

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:51 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  My wife is a teacher. If there is one thing I have taught her; ask for nothing for yourself, you will be denied. The right way is, " to think about the childern!", or "for the good of the childern."
  I bet there is a local rag newspaper eager to sell some advertising by running a story about innocent childern in danger.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:53 p.m. Autolex HalfDork

  Get a doctor. One that can evaluate HER based on her history, have him/her state WHEN (and WHY?) she has asthma. Get whatever he says in WRITING and send it to the school board.

  It is NOT your responsibility to clean/remediate/plan to fix the space, it IS the responsibility of the building owner to provide a "safe" and "non-condition inducing" workspace for their employees.

  Once the schoolboard sees what the Doc says, they SHOULD have a qualfied person come in and evaluate the building's Indoor Air Quality (IAQ). While it IS true that there are no "mold standards"... it should be immediately obvious to the IAQ guy that if the indoor mold/bacteria/any irritant levels are 10x or 100x or even 1000x the OUTDOOR levels then something is wrong.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:55 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  What school board? As far as I know all this private school has is a board of trustees who basically drum up funding... is there something else I don't know about?

  The asthma has already been addressed by our Dr, but they have no way of knowing "why", only "when" and what to do about it.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 12:58 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  DHEC understands that indoor air quality is a concern. Mold is one of the biggest indoor air quality health concerns. But, DHEC cannot test or inspect indoor air. DHEC does not have any state or federal authority to address indoor air quality. The only exception is the control of asbestos.

  There are no state or federal laws or regulations that set minimum standards for indoor air quality, including standards for mold and mildew. Consequently, DHEC does not have the authority to inspect for mold or mildew.

  Mold, Mildew and Indoor Air Quality in Schools

  Although DHEC sometimes inspects schools for mold or mildew at the request of a school administrator or following a complaint, we have no authority under state or federal law to enforce indoor air quality standards. There are no state or federal laws or regulations that set minimum standards for indoor air quality, including standards for mold and mildew.

  One resource for schools dealing with indoor air quality issues is the EPA's voluntary Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools Program. This program has helped hundreds of schools improve the comfort and health of students and staff by helping schools identify, correct and prevent indoor air quality problems in school buildings. Local school districts are responsible for paying for any improvements needed.

  Complaints: If you have concerns about mold, mildew or indoor air quality at your child's school, please contact the school principal or local school district administrators. If you have concerns about charter school indoor air quality, contact the S.C. Department of Education.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:03 p.m. Autolex HalfDork

  tuna55 wrote:

  What school board? As far as I know all this private school has is a board of trustees who basically drum up funding... is there something else I don't know about?

  The asthma has already been addressed by our Dr, but they have no way of knowing "why", only "when" and what to do about it.

  I apologize, I meant (in this situation): board of trustees...

  I agree that it should be brought up that the kids in the class can be affected by this: the young, the old, and the immunocomprimised ALWAYS are more susceptible. I would ALSO point THIS out to the board of trustees.

  the problem here is going to end up being getting them to admit the room/school/whatever HAS a problem. once they do admit it, there are accepted ways of remediating.

  In cases where the teacher/inhabitant has a condition develop (where it can be reasonably inferred that it was caused by the space), it almost ALWAYS has to go legal. (unfortunately)...

  the EPA has some guidelines on how to clean it up, what is "uncommon" and what is generally best practices http://www.epa.gov/iedmold1

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:05 p.m. Autolex HalfDork

  tuna55 wrote:

  If you have concerns about charter school indoor air quality, contact the S.C. Department of Education.

  I take it this goes for private schools too?

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:08 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

  Complain to Principal. If the Principal does nothing, send pictures anonymously to the local newspapers/TV news stations. Of course, this means that if/once enrollment drops, your wife could be in jeopardy of losing her job. Your call.

  FWIW, Sis-in-law is currently struggling with a similar conundrum, but with more concerns for the kids' health than her own. She's afraid to pipe up for fear of losing her job. It's a tough call.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:09 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  Autolex wrote:

  tuna55 wrote:

  If you have concerns about charter school indoor air quality, contact the S.C. Department of Education.

  I take it this goes for private schools too?

  perhaps - that was a link and it was dead.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:11 p.m. Autolex HalfDork

  poopshovel wrote:

  Complain to Principal. If the Principal does nothing, send pictures anonymously to the local newspapers/TV news stations. Of course, this means that if/once enrollment drops, your wife could be in jeopardy of losing her job. Your call.

  FWIW, Sis-in-law is currently struggling with a similar conundrum, but with more concerns for the kids' health than her own. She's afraid to pipe up for fear of losing her job. It's a tough call.

  the accrediting body IS the authority here. if the Dept of Education has a problem with it (they are usually VERY good about this) it WILL get fixed.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:14 p.m. Autolex HalfDork

  tuna55 wrote:

  DHEC understands that indoor air quality is a concern. One resource for schools dealing with indoor air quality issues is the EPA's voluntary Indoor Air Quality Tools for Schools Program. This program has helped hundreds of schools improve the comfort and health of students and staff by helping schools identify, correct and prevent indoor air quality problems in school buildings. Local school districts are responsible for paying for any improvements needed.

  you may want to see if you can get them to Enroll in this...

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  Aug. 16, 2011 1:39 p.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

  I wish you luck Tuna. As you've learned, there is no law or limit on mold and humidity. Not from any government body.
  

  One can appeal to the board of trustees, and hope for the best. One can create a firestorm in the newspaper. Both will likely result in the loss of her job.
  

  There is a faint chance of some personal success for her by claiming injury. Darn hard to prove.

  Now, if the local PTA/PTO equivalent at this school were to somehow get fired up over the mold and what it is doing to their precious children....

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  Aug. 16, 2011 2:02 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  Update:

  They are cleaning everything with bleach and water and installing tile and throwing away the carpet. I don't think the bleach takes care of the wood shelves, the instruments or the instrument cases effectively. They also plan on installing an air return duct. I am not sure when.

  I told her to push for testing of both surfaces and air.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 2:09 p.m. donalson SuperDork

  mold aside as you mentioned that humidity is HORRID for the wood insturments... good way to see some very costly repairs...

  anyway... I worked for a company that did mold remediation... that stuff can be nasty... and I know if you get an insurance company involved there is a ton of red tape and i'm sure that has to do with potential legal action down the road... I can recall a number of houses we had to seal off the entire house while putting air scrubbers in, strip to the studs, soda blast, hepa vac and then spray encapsulation paint on all the surfaces before it would pass inspection... bleach just makes things worse.

  if nothing I as a parent of an asthmatic would be furious to know of these conditions... we've already spent to much time in the hospital over the years and the idea of a school that i'm paying money to (and a good amount it sounds based on your description) would just be salt in the wound....

  I would def play the "think of the children" card... the key is to find the balance to being the squeeky wheel to the right people while not loosing the job.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 2:13 p.m. donalson SuperDork

  this is what I found on bleach in a quick google search... it's an old dead page that google cached... but has good info

  http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:f9mCXK5CBGcJ:www.spore-tech.c...

  Does Bleach Really Kill Mold? Will chlorine bleach kill mold or not—yes or no? The answer is yes, but with a caveat. That answer comes from The Clorox Company, Oakland CA, manufacturer and distributor of Ultra Clorox® Regular Bleach. The company’s correspondence to Spore°Tech Mold Investigations, LLC stated that their Tech Center studies supported by independent laboratories show that “…3/4 cup of Clorox liquid bleach per gallon of water will be effective on hard, non-porous surfaces against… Aspergillus niger and Trichophyton mentagrophytes (Athlete’s Foot Fungus)”. Whether or not chlorine bleach kills other molds and fungi, the company did not say. The “hard, non-porous surfaces” part of the sentence is a caveat. Mold remediation involves the need to disinfect wood and wood-based building materials, all of which are porous materials. Thus, chlorine bleach should not be used in mold remediation as confirmed by OSHA’s and EPA's updated recommendations and suggested guidelines. The use of bleach as a mold disinfectant is best left to kitchen and bathroom countertops, tubs and shower glass, etc.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 2:48 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

  Hey guys, you should come check out my new Scandanavian Black Metal band

  Christ's Moldy School.

  this weekend.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 2:49 p.m. fast_eddie_72 Dork

  I used Boric Acid when I had a mold issue. We had a bathroom that wasn't ventelated. Luckily, it's plaster. Mold can get in the drywall, but not so much plaster. I did have to dig out a lot of stuff. Basically, I removed anytihng with mold and a good way around it. Took the shower apart and put all the stuff in a Boric Acid solution. Sprayed the solution all over the place too. Then I fixed all the plaster. It was a PITA, but two years later, it did take care of it. Of course, I put a vent fan in too.

  She might be able to use a Boric Acid solution on the wood shelves and such. It does seem to do the job. But you have to get every last tick of the stuff or it will be right back.

  It's nasty stuff. Hope it works out for your wife.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 3:15 p.m. fast_eddie_72 Dork

  I'm not clear on this, so could be off base. Are teachers in private schools members of the teacher's union? They could be very helpful in a situation like this.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 3:17 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  fast_eddie_72 wrote:

  I'm not clear on this, so could be off base. Are teachers in private schools members of the teacher's union? They could be very helpful in a situation like this.

  No. They are not.

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  Aug. 16, 2011 7:08 p.m. Stealthtercel HalfDork

  If it's a charter school, is there something in the legislation governing such things that stipulates the kind of physical-plant standards they have to meet? It would seem to be a no-brainer that a charter school couldn't just set up in any old dump and start taking money. Therefore, maybe your wife's school is unwittingly in violation of some obscure fine print. I'm sure the legislation also includes stipulations about inspections etc.; maybe there's a possible approach there.

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