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  • Jensenman

    Aug. 7, 2009 9:02 a.m. Jensenman MegaDork

    ^ Yep. That's why in most situations there are at least two officers, for backup and also corroborating testimony. Another angle: the cop is already in an unfamiliar place. He has NO idea what to expect, particularly if the other person is going on a rant. For all he knows there could be a weapon hidden somewhere in the room. I have known people in so called 'nice' neighborhoods who have kept pistols hidden in areas near entrances to their home, just in case.

    It would be in the officer's best interests to get the other person outside rather than risk gunplay which would end poorly for all involved.

  • Bobzilla

    Aug. 7, 2009 9:10 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

    WE must be wrong. THere's no way a corrupt, racist cop would ever do anything for the interest of the other person.

  • Aug. 7, 2009 11:13 a.m. SVreX UberDork

    GlennS wrote:

    This quote implies that a person gets away with "being an elitist". As it has not been clearly defined ill just assume it means in this context " person who works for a college" or "person who knows Obama". The idea that a person "gets away" with either of these things, avoiding punishment, and casting it as a negative character trait i find objectionable. Its as objectionable as saying a person "gets away" with being a redneck.

    Maybe elitist has some other definition, i asked what it might be.

    From Dictionary.com:

    Elitist: –noun 1. practice of or belief in rule by an elite. 2. consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.

    You are confusing it with Elite: –noun 1. (often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons. 2. (used with a plural verb) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there. 3. a group of persons exercising the major share of authority or influence within a larger group: the power elite of a major political party.

    Basically, the difference is in attitude. Being elite is being part of a special group of people by random chance. Being elitist is believing that those people are better than others for some reason.

    The word Democrats frequently used (about the previous administration) was cronyism, which is pretty similar to elitism.

    I don't think anyone has a problem with Mr. Gates being part of an elite group of people by nature of his education, nor Mr. Obama by nature of his office and station. The issue is when they come across as elitist, meaning they consider themselves privileged because of their position, and perhaps somehow therefore above the law.

  • Wowak

    Aug. 7, 2009 7:56 p.m. Wowak Dork

    Duke wrote:

    So it is in the cop's best interest to have witnesses to Gates's behaviour and to whatever events occur, particularly if Gates is upset and already throwing down the racism card.

    Please tell me you're capable of seeing this point.

    I see your point, it just seems that you're worldview is as biased against blacks as I'm accused of being biased against police. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

  • oldopelguy

    Aug. 7, 2009 10:22 p.m. oldopelguy Dork

    Black cop plus white guy in house throwing out racial comments would have needed to get out and get witnesses just as badly. Would have been just as scared of a hidden gun too.

    Seems the only one with demonstrated racism is Mr Gates. Some suspect the neighbor may have been profiling a bit, though she may have just been trying to help, but the cop never demonstrated any racism at all to the best of my searching.

  • Shaun

    Aug. 7, 2009 10:38 p.m. Shaun New Reader

    This post was a troll. "I'm trying to be enlightened"....

    Congratulations!! 6 pages!! Woot!!!

  • Duke

    Aug. 7, 2009 10:49 p.m. Duke SuperDork

    Wowak wrote:

    I see your point, it just seems that you're worldview is as biased against blacks as I'm accused of being biased against police. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    I don't see how I'm biased against blacks. I didn't/don't mention racism until someone else does. I'm not the one accusing a cop (who was responding to a call in order to protect my property, aftert all) by instantaneously bringing the subject of race into it.

  • oldsaw

    Aug. 8, 2009 12:30 a.m. oldsaw Reader

    oldopelguy wrote:

    Black cop plus white guy in house throwing out racial comments would have needed to get out and get witnesses just as badly. Would have been just as scared of a hidden gun too.

    Seems the only one with demonstrated racism is Mr Gates. Some suspect the neighbor may have been profiling a bit, though she may have just been trying to help, but the cop never demonstrated any racism at all to the best of my searching.

    The neighbor never identified the race of the suspects until asked to specify.

    If any profiling has been done, it's by the "some" and they should be offering apologies.

  • oldsaw

    Aug. 8, 2009 12:44 a.m. oldsaw Reader

    Duke wrote:

    Wowak wrote:

    I see your point, it just seems that you're worldview is as biased against blacks as I'm accused of being biased against police. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

    I don't see how I'm biased against blacks. I didn't/don't mention racism until someone else does. I'm not the one accusing a cop (who was responding to a call in order to protect my property, aftert all) by instantaneously bringing the subject of race into it.

    You're not biased until it is perceived as biased from someone who is already biased.

    Between Wowak, Gates and Obama none may ever change their biases.

    But among the three, the one with the most to gain or lose now has to prove he is above bias - one of his campaign pledges.

    Time will tell.

  • jbone

    Aug. 8, 2009 6:53 a.m. jbone New Reader

    Some of THE most racist people you will ever meet are old black men.

  • Jensenman

    Aug. 8, 2009 7:56 a.m. Jensenman MegaDork

    ^^ Ain't THAT the truth. Get one started about white women and black men sometime, then stand back. It amazes me how these old black guys can go on and on about how poorly blacks were treated during the civil rights era and then say some of the horrible things they do about white people.

    BTW, about the only place you can still find the Gates police report: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

  • Aug. 8, 2009 12:22 p.m. SVreX UberDork

    Shaun wrote:

    This post was a troll. "I'm trying to be enlightened"....

    Congratulations!! 6 pages!! Woot!!!

    That was my post.

    A troll by definition has to intend to provoke other people. By that definition, it certainly was no troll. I had a genuine interest in being enlightened by people with opposing viewpoints.

    Regretfully, I have not been enlightened. Primarily because no one with opposing viewpoints has offered me any new perspective, only the tired old "cops are always wrong, and you'd understand better if you were black".

    And since your post offered no value to the conversation either, and seemed to have only the intent to provoke an emotional response, perhaps your post better fits the definition of a troll.

    But I would agree, 6 pages have not produced much fruit.

  • Shaun

    Aug. 8, 2009 12:32 p.m. Shaun New Reader

    SVreX wrote:

    Shaun wrote:

    This post was a troll. "I'm trying to be enlightened"....

    Congratulations!! 6 pages!! Woot!!!

    Regretfully, I have not been enlightened. Primarily because no one with opposing viewpoints has offered me any new perspective, only the tired old "cops are always wrong, and you'd understand better if you were black".

    Don't forget this tired old angle.

    "Some of THE most racist people you will ever meet are old black men. "

  • MrJoshua

    Aug. 8, 2009 12:38 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

    SvRex-The valid points opposing yours have been that the cops CAN be wrong and arguing is not a crime. The odd thing in this thread is the assumption that we should all bow when a cop arrives. We have rights. An officer of the law is assigned to uphold the law, not submit all the citizens they encounter. The fact that the vast majority of posters feel we should all start behaving in a "Yes sir, thank you sir, if it pleases you sir" manner when we see a police officer whether or not we have done anything wrong just gives credit to the opinion that an officer may arrest innocent people.

  • GlennS

    Aug. 8, 2009 3:53 p.m. GlennS HalfDork

    After reading the police report it does sound like he is infact an elitist by your definition

    the guy sounds like a total dick, according to the police report

  • Duke

    Aug. 8, 2009 7:48 p.m. Duke SuperDork

    I've never bowed and scraped and sucked up to a cop in my life. I have, however, made sure to treat them with the same basic courtesy and appreciation I do for a member of the military: I am glad to see that there are people who are willing to put themselves at risk in order to protect the greater population.

    That's something I think Mr. Gates might have been wise to remember - the cop was there to protect Gates's house before even he had any idea who it belonged to.

    It is possible to show respect for someone without licking their boots.

  • Jensenman

    Aug. 8, 2009 7:52 p.m. Jensenman MegaDork

    Duke hit the nail square on the head.

    /thread.

  • MrJoshua

    Aug. 8, 2009 8:11 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

    Mr Gates is an ass. A racist ass. That isn't the point. The point is did being a racist ass really warrant his arrest? He kept yelling "This is what happens to black men in America!", repeatedly told the officer "You don't know who you are messing with", and asked for her name several times after being told her name repeatedly. Rude, idiotic, racist, etc...., but illegal?

  • oldsaw

    Aug. 8, 2009 8:21 p.m. oldsaw Reader

    MrJoshua wrote:

    Rude, idiotic, racist, etc...., but illegal?

    Not until he decided to follow the officer out of the house and continue his tirade.

    At that point, with a gathering crowd, it was determined that Mr. Gates' actions would/could lead to a larger confrontation.

    Bad judgement leads to bad consequences - on both sides.

  • MrJoshua

    Aug. 8, 2009 8:27 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

    Im assuming someone of Mr Gates employment level does not live in a neighborhood prone to riots. If riots were truly a determining factor in the illegality of his behavior, an arrest probably increased the likelyhood of a riot. (in other neighborhoods)

  • Trans_Maro

    Aug. 8, 2009 8:31 p.m. Trans_Maro HalfDork

    MrJoshua wrote:

    "You don't know who you are messing with"

    This is always the best part of any confrontation for one of two reasons:

    The person who is "messing" with you either:

    • Doesn't know who you are and doesn't care.

    or

    • DOES know who you are and STILL doesn't care.

    The second one is always my favourite.

    Shawn

  • oldsaw

    Aug. 8, 2009 8:45 p.m. oldsaw Reader

    MrJoshua wrote:

    Im assuming someone of Mr Gates employment level does not live in a neighborhood prone to riots. If riots were truly a determining factor in the illegality of his behavior, an arrest probably increased the likelyhood of a riot. (in other neighborhoods)

    ASSuming pretty much led to the entire predicament.

  • MrJoshua

    Aug. 8, 2009 8:55 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

    Yup! Can't argue with that!

  • Aug. 9, 2009 11:57 a.m. SVreX UberDork

    GlennS wrote:

    After reading the police report it does sound like he is infact an "elitist" by your definition

    the guy sounds like a total dick, according to the police report

    It's not my definition. It's the dictionary definition.

  • Aug. 9, 2009 12:02 p.m. SVreX UberDork

    MrJoshua wrote:

    SvRex-The valid points opposing yours have been that the cops CAN be wrong and arguing is not a crime.

    I didn't say that those points were not valid. They are.

    I said I had not been enlightened, and that no one with opposing views had offered me any new perspective.

    I was raised in a mixed race household in a minority neighborhood. Believe me, those particular points have been very much a part of my life since a very early age.

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