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Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
9/11/18 1:14 p.m.

I work in healthcare. I have 5yrs experience doing what I do. Why do I have to waste lots of time interviewing for “slam dunk” positions? It’s just a formality at this point. Why can’t it be done on the spot, I had the time when I met the manager? The rest of the paperwork could have already been done by now.

rant off.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/11/18 1:27 p.m.

I had 4 interviews for my current position. 

I can only think of one time I got a position nearly on the spot, they called me just after I left to offer me the job. But the president of the company recommended me, so the interview was essentially a formality.

Last position was "one" interview, more like one site visit. But it was still 3 interviews:
- 1st was HR Generalist, both engineering managers and lead engineer.

- 2nd was Director of HR only

- 3rd was the COO

 

For what it's worth, at least in Tech Writing 5 years of experience may still have you interviewing for something barely above entry-level. We just extended an offer to someone to start here next month, he has ~13 years of experience and is still coming in a lower-level than my "Senior" title and I have 2.5 years less experience.

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
9/11/18 1:40 p.m.

I should add that I’m going to a rural hospital from the big city one...

jharry3
jharry3 Reader
9/11/18 2:14 p.m.

I changed jobs 3 times in 25 years.  I was recruited from the last job each time so there was no interview other than filling out HR paperwork.  Then the bottom dropped out of the oil market in 2015.  I was involuntarily unemployed for the first time in my life. And had I started working changing tires when I was a teenager in the '70's.

I went on a lot of interviews.  Most were for jobs I was overqualified, they knew it, and was told the same thing every time even though I was sincere about just wanting a position and didn't care about the title or rank. 

I kept hearing: "You are going to quit as soon as the oil business comes back."    I realized after a while that telling the truth about my previous salary was killing my chances at most interviews. I also realized I needed to take stuff out of my resume so I didn't appear to over qualified.  No one wanted to pay that much anymore.     And a lot of them were scared of my experience, afraid I could do their job better than they were doing it.  

  I did eventually find something after almost two years at 25% less than I previously made and I was damn happy to have that.  I still am.  The high paying jobs have not come back yet.       I'm over 60 and people look at that as a liability.   I hope to keep my profile low so I can work another 10 years. 

I hope to not have to go on too many more interviews... -

 

bmw88rider
bmw88rider SuperDork
9/11/18 2:19 p.m.

As someone who has done a lot of interviewing from a hiring POV, by the time the interviewer got to me it was less about competence and more about org fit and personality. My last role I hired for, all 6 candidates were competent but only 2 were really a fit for the org. So when I did multiple interviews it wasn't about skills. A smaller org is more common for this. 

Suprf1y
Suprf1y UltimaDork
9/11/18 4:00 p.m.

Interviews are mostly a waste of time because the people doing them usually have no idea what they're doing. Most interviewers are really bad at it and if you're smart you can game them very easily.

Tell me about a time...

Really? They're still doing that. I made fun of the HR manager in a recent interview for pulling that BS on me. They still offered me the job then called me back a month later and asked why I turned it down. It was money.

dropstep
dropstep UltraDork
9/11/18 9:33 p.m.

I have never had a real interview. I got a job right after high school via my auto tech teacher, worked for the guy who owns the place I work at now.. it always throws me off when I see people doing multiple interviews for one job. Closest I got was FaceTime with my current boss because he was in Afghanistan when he had his wife hire me

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/12/18 6:57 a.m.
Suprf1y said:

Interviews are mostly a waste of time because the people doing them usually have no idea what they're doing. Most interviewers are really bad at it and if you're smart you can game them very easily.

Tell me about a time...

Really? They're still doing that. I made fun of the HR manager in a recent interview for pulling that BS on me. They still offered me the job then called me back a month later and asked why I turned it down. It was money.

Not for professional jobs they don't anymore. I left out for the current job between interview #1 and interview #2 was incredibly comprehensive writing and aptitude test that took me approaching 5 hours to complete. Had I not done well on it, I wouldn't have made it to #2.

But it was worth it to have my current employers name on my resume, it should open many doors if I ever decide to leave. 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
9/12/18 8:40 a.m.

Why waste lots of time? Maybe it isn't a waste. Maybe they've got a policy that they need to interview at least X people if they don't have a preferred/identified candidate. Maybe you look like a slam dunk, but seem to be missing a key piece that you just don't know they need. 

 

Interviews are about removing doubt. When I'm interviewing people (which thankfully doesn't happen in this current role, at least not yet), I have doubts about them. Sometimes the doubt is just a "can we afford to hire this person", in which case the interview is a formality, but at the minimum I will always need to know if I like the person. I have to spend time with them. So I better like them alright. 

 

My current position, my boss asked me how I would do things. When I said Excel for an answer, he asked me what funtions. Then he asked me how to do a V-Lookup and a Pivot Table. Literally was testing me. And he asked what I do when I don't know--BTW, my answer was to google it. He liked that answer. 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
9/12/18 8:44 a.m.

Oh, and if I'm moving to a new company, the fewest interviews that I've had was 3--not including my first job which was an internship, in which case I had 1 HR screen, 1 interview, and 2 internal employees writing rec's for me. 

My current job was an HR screen, later that day followed by a Phone interview with the manager, followed by an in-person the next day. 2 days later a phone call with my bosses boss. 2 hours later, an offer. That was the fastest one I had ever experienced. 

 

Internal transfers, I've had "on the spot" offers--but they literally were formalities where I was an identified candidate for the job. 

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/12/18 9:34 a.m.

would be ironic if OP didn't get job because "during interview process, his heart just wasn't in it."

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
9/12/18 9:39 a.m.

Actually, I have the job. Just paperwork and drug screen/immunizations besides what the $ offer is going to be...

Type Q
Type Q SuperDork
9/12/18 10:08 a.m.

 

I think this has all been said other ways here already. But I wanted to share it this way.

 

There are 3 questions that need to be answered for an employment offer to happen.

1. Can you do the job? (Are you competent?)

2. Will you do the job? (What motivates you? Are you going to get enough in this role?)

3. Can we stand you while you are doing the job? (What is your personality like? Will it fit with the people an circumstances you will encounter everyday?)

Hiring the wrong person is one of the most expensive mistakes a business can make. So even if you your competence is clearly established, the other two questions still need to be answered.

 

BTW, As a job seeker, you can and should think about these questions as you interview and before you accept an offer. Taking the wrong job is a path to misery in an otherwise great life. So treat the interviews as your chance to assess:

1. Can I do this job? (Do I have the skills to give them what they need?)

2. Will I do this job? (Will I get enough of what motivates me?)

3 Can I stand this place and these people while I am doing the job?

 

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
9/12/18 10:13 a.m.

Bureaucrats and middle management justifying their position in the world.

They don't dare be cut out of the procedures or people might realize how useless they actually are. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/12/18 10:28 a.m.
Ranger50 said:

Actually, I have the job. Just paperwork and drug screen/immunizations besides what the $ offer is going to be...

Why would they do the paperwork and everything else before the interview to see if they actually want to hire you? And even if that is a formality, see my next question.

How can the paperwork be done without a start date, rate of pay, or contingencies like the drug test (assuming if you failed the drug test, you don't get the job so they wasted their time on the paperwork) completed?

Those are all things that have been present in any job I've ever taken. 

 

 

 

Dave
Dave Reader
9/12/18 10:36 a.m.
bmw88rider said:

As someone who has done a lot of interviewing from a hiring POV, by the time the interviewer got to me it was less about competence and more about org fit and personality. My last role I hired for, all 6 candidates were competent but only 2 were really a fit for the org. So when I did multiple interviews it wasn't about skills. A smaller org is more common for this. 

 

+1. Interview is about finding out if the person will be a good fit, troublemaker, a dick, etc. It should be less about judging the skill of the person.

Suprf1y
Suprf1y UltimaDork
9/12/18 11:44 a.m.
z31maniac said:
Suprf1y said:

Interviews are mostly a waste of time because the people doing them usually have no idea what they're doing. Most interviewers are really bad at it and if you're smart you can game them very easily.

Tell me about a time...

Really? They're still doing that. I made fun of the HR manager in a recent interview for pulling that BS on me. They still offered me the job then called me back a month later and asked why I turned it down. It was money.

Not for professional jobs they don't anymore. I left out for the current job between interview #1 and interview #2 was incredibly comprehensive writing and aptitude test that took me approaching 5 hours to complete. Had I not done well on it, I wouldn't have made it to #2.

But it was worth it to have my current employers name on my resume, it should open many doors if I ever decide to leave. 

A test is not an interview. It's a separate part of the application process, though they are not without their own problems.

You might find it hard to believe but I have a dim view of HR professionals. They are the dregs of industry, IMO.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/12/18 12:50 p.m.

^I couldn't tell. smiley

The only time I spoke with the HR was the "screening interview" and when they called back and said "Here is your offer." Everything else was with employees/managers/director I would be working with. 

 

I'm still curious why OP thinks the paperwork should be done, when they haven't even agreed to compensation. My contract dictates my pay, when my start date was, the % of time I'm supposed to be in the office vs working from home, the NDA I had to sign, etc.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
9/12/18 1:56 p.m.
Suprf1y said:

Interviews are mostly a waste of time because the people doing them usually have no idea what they're doing. Most interviewers are really bad at it and if you're smart you can game them very easily.

Tell me about a time...

Really? They're still doing that. I made fun of the HR manager in a recent interview for pulling that BS on me. They still offered me the job then called me back a month later and asked why I turned it down. It was money.

I've done some interviewing, and we actually have a script.  There is "tell me about a time" but the question is really focused on a specific outcome- more of a scenario.  My part was early filtering interviews, to be some early weed out- so going over the various scenarios were actually pretty good- nobody really knew how to game it, as we got totally different responses from everyone.

Not perfect, perhaps, but it was effective at finding people we didn't want.

Torkel
Torkel New Reader
9/12/18 3:33 p.m.

I have, many times now, been on both side of the interviewing process. 3 things are painfully evident:

- Very few know how to conduct an actual, professional interview.

- Many miss the most obvious things when preparing to go to an interview. Like spending 10min with google to learn the most basic about the company in question.

- You bump into huge cultural collisions during the process. Us Scandinavians are very modest when we write resumes, because overstating something is a big social no-no. Americans are the complete opposite and I've caught several with plain vast overstatements and plain lies. The Italians don't believe in resumes, they just want to talk to you (slightly exaggerated). The Germans will give you the most sterile piece of writing you have ever seen, carefully leaving out every sign that the author is a living being with other interest then work.

Hal
Hal UltraDork
9/12/18 3:42 p.m.

I must have the strangest interview history of all time.

Graduating from college to be a shop teacher.  One semester of senior year is student teaching.  Every Friday we report back to the college for "Practicum" class in the afternoon.   Half the time is discussing how things are going and the other half is visiting with recruiters.   Recruiters put out their sales pitch and sometimes even hand out contracts to sign.

Toward the end of the semester after listening to ~75 recruiters and getting a handfull of contracts in the mail I have decided that I want to go to one of 4 systems in MD.  So I call the numbers I have and arrange to go for interviews, 2 a day for 2 days.  So I make the trip and listen to more sales pitches. Only questions about me are "What are your subject specializations and your preferences".  Salary is not discussed since it is fixed and I already know it. I leave each interview with a contract to sign and send back.

 

Job #2  Having been retired from teaching for 1 1/2 years and getting bored I decide to try and find a job.  Saw an ad in the local paper for a Programmer/Analyst.  There was a list of qualifications of which I only met one.  But I figured WTH it would be good practice since I didn't have much interview experience.  So I call the number and the lady who answered asked if I could come in the next morning.  When I said "Yes" , she said to ask for Mike XX at the front desk. 

So I show up and ask for MikeXX.  He comes to the desk and takes me up to his office.  I tell him that I don't have experience in the things on the list but am willing to learn.  He asks about what I have done with computers at school .  So I give the whole run down.  From programing and using an Apple II  to display project directions for 6th grade shop students to wiring up a school-wide network for Apple II computers and running the computer lab.  He was kind of amazed the I actually crawled around in the ceilings and strung the wires myself.  After 2 hours of talking he said the head of the department was out of town and could I come back Monday and talk to him.  

So I show up Monday and ask for Dave.  In Dave's office he says he had talked to Mike and this was the salary they were offering.  Sounded good to me and I said so.  He explained vacation and leave policies.  Sounded good again.  Brought up medical insurance,etc.  Told him I didn't need them(had better thru teacher retirement).  He asked if I could start tomorrow and I replied "How about next Monday?".  He said "OK, come in first thing and see the HR lady to do all the paperwork.

 

Job #3  Company having been bought out and moved I had been out of work for 6 months and decided I wanted a part-time job.  Fellow I had ridden motorcycles with for years had just bought a hardware store.  Walked into the store and said "Karl, I'm looking for a part time job."  OK, can you work mornings starting at 6:00?  "Yep, Not a problem".   OK,  This is what I pay(almost double what I expected).  "That would be fine."  Here is the schedule.  "Don't like that can we make this change?"  I'm OK with that and it helps me out too, can you start tomorrow?  "See you in the morning."
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Suprf1y
Suprf1y UltimaDork
9/12/18 5:03 p.m.

In reply to Torkel :

I agree with everything you said.

That's pretty rare yes

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
9/12/18 5:54 p.m.
Hal said:

I must have the strangest interview history of all time.

Graduating from college to be a shop teacher.  One semester of senior year is student teaching.  Every Friday we report back to the college for "Practicum" class in the afternoon.   Half the time is discussing how things are going and the other half is visiting with recruiters.   Recruiters put out their sales pitch and sometimes even hand out contracts to sign.

Toward the end of the semester after listening to ~75 recruiters and getting a handfull of contracts in the mail I have decided that I want to go to one of 4 systems in MD.  So I call the numbers I have and arrange to go for interviews, 2 a day for 2 days.  So I make the trip and listen to more sales pitches. Only questions about me are "What are your subject specializations and your preferences".  Salary is not discussed since it is fixed and I already know it. I leave each interview with a contract to sign and send back.

 

Job #2  Having been retired from teaching for 1 1/2 years and getting bored I decide to try and find a job.  Saw an ad in the local paper for a Programmer/Analyst.  There was a list of qualifications of which I only met one.  But I figured WTH it would be good practice since I didn't have much interview experience.  So I call the number and the lady who answered asked if I could come in the next morning.  When I said "Yes" , she said to ask for Mike XX at the front desk. 

So I show up and ask for MikeXX.  He comes to the desk and takes me up to his office.  I tell him that I don't have experience in the things on the list but am willing to learn.  He asks about what I have done with computers at school .  So I give the whole run down.  From programing and using an Apple II  to display project directions for 6th grade shop students to wiring up a school-wide network for Apple II computers and running the computer lab.  He was kind of amazed the I actually crawled around in the ceilings and strung the wires myself.  After 2 hours of talking he said the head of the department was out of town and could I come back Monday and talk to him.  

So I show up Monday and ask for Dave.  In Dave's office he says he had talked to Mike and this was the salary they were offering.  Sounded good to me and I said so.  He explained vacation and leave policies.  Sounded good again.  Brought up medical insurance,etc.  Told him I didn't need them(had better thru teacher retirement).  He asked if I could start tomorrow and I replied "How about next Monday?".  He said "OK, come in first thing and see the HR lady to do all the paperwork.

 

Job #3  Company having been bought out and moved I had been out of work for 6 months and decided I wanted a part-time job.  Fellow I had ridden motorcycles with for years had just bought a hardware store.  Walked into the store and said "Karl, I'm looking for a part time job."  OK, can you work mornings starting at 6:00?  "Yep, Not a problem".   OK,  This is what I pay(almost double what I expected).  "That would be fine."  Here is the schedule.  "Don't like that can we make this change?"  I'm OK with that and it helps me out too, can you start tomorrow?  "See you in the morning."
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are what's known around my shop as "A very useful little engine."

Hal
Hal UltraDork
9/12/18 6:58 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I guess so.  I had ~15 different summer/part time jobs while I was teaching.  Everything from gunsmith, motorcycle mechanic, to all of the construction trades.  Funny part was that most of them found me rather me looking.  Example: Hanging around the motorcycle shop one October when I was riding a lot.  The manager said "I have a lot of bikes in the warehouse that have been sold as Christmas presents.  Would you like to come in evenings and Saturdays and put them together.  That started 4 years of everything from assembly, mechanical work, custom part fabrication for race bikes, to being the salesman when the manager went on vacation.

But at 74 years old this little engine needs a rebuild.

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle Dork
9/12/18 7:42 p.m.
z31maniac said:

For what it's worth, at least in Tech Writing 5 years of experience may still have you interviewing for something barely above entry-level. We just extended an offer to someone to start here next month, he has ~13 years of experience and is still coming in a lower-level than my "Senior" title and I have 2.5 years less experience.

Everybody cuts his own deal! Sounds like you did well. 

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