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Jan. 12, 2009 4:26 p.m. Snowdoggie Reader

AngryCorvair wrote:

Snowdoggie wrote:

You can't have it both ways. Either you have government subsidizing education or you do not. If the government sets the standards and writes the test and gives it to the homeschoolers to take, you are still depending on the government to provide materials for you and to set the standard that you must abide by. This is just government subsidized home schooling. If you are going to homeschool, then make up your own tests and decide for yourself when your child is educated, or go out into the marketplace and buy materials in the marketplace that you can use to test your children WITHOUT the assistance of a professional educator provided to you by the government.

Is there a problem with the fact that some parents might not be qualified to do this? That is my point.

LOL. At you, not With you.

Home school kids take these tests under threat of removal from their homes, under the guise of "child protective services". Sure, the government sets the standards and writes the tests, and the four thousand dollars they get from me every year in property tax which is used to support the public school system makes my copy of the test the most.expensive.xerox.copies.ever.

home schoolers don't get free textbooks. they get a list of things that the public school would try to teach them in each grade. it is then the responsibility of the home school family to provide, at their own cost, whatever text they believe is appropriate to use in the education of their student on that subject.

i've got a deal for you, snowdoggie. i'll do some research on dog rescue before i tell you how berkeleyed up dog rescue is. in exchange, you do some research on home school before you tell me how berkeleyed up home school is.

You really don't know much about me or what my experiences are.

I have relatives who are home schooled. One of them went through vet school and has a successful practice. The other one has trouble holding down a job, has gone through bankrupcy and forclosure and has trouble socializing with anybody outside of her church. I have another relative who was home schooled and got into the engineering program at CU Boulder. After she got there, she flunked out, despite having very high SATs.

As I said before, success in home schooling depends on the parents. Why does this concept threaten you so much?
Jan. 12, 2009 4:33 p.m. Snowdoggie Reader

SVreX wrote:

Snowdoggie:

The incorrect pre-suppostion you are working with is that home schoolers do all the education of their children by themselves. The vast majority do not.

Both AC and I are trying to enlighten you, not attack you.

If you'd like to learn about home schooling, I'd be thrilled to answer any questions you may have. But many of the pre-suppostions you are presenting here are factually incorrect.

I'm sorry I offended you. It was not my intent.

All I am saying is that I have seen it done well and I have seen it done badly. I know people who think that the only thing they need to home school their kids is the bible and a big stick. I have seen people fail at this pretty badly.

You obviously have enough education to do it and know how to chose outside materials. I am just saying that not everybody has the education and the resources you do.
Jan. 12, 2009 4:47 p.m. SVreX UberDork

My resources are pretty much limited to this:

Desire and drive to see kids do better (both mine and other people's).

After that, any abilities I have are just the result a lot of hard work.
Jan. 12, 2009 4:52 p.m. SVreX UberDork

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Shadetree mechanics built the first airplane.

And they were home schooled!! WooHoo!!
Jan. 12, 2009 5:06 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

Homeschooling does not teach children two very important skills: Acculturation and socialization, aka...

How to shut up and deal with bullE36 M3; And how to deal with working with a bunch of people you'd rather not spend your time with.
Jan. 12, 2009 5:12 p.m. DILYSI Dave PowerDork

Snowdoggie wrote:

As I said before, success in home schooling depends on the parents. Why does this concept threaten you so much?

Agreed - some are good, and some are bad. This applies to home schools, private schools, and public schools.

Home schooling's success does depend on the parents. Public schooling's success depends on the federal government, the state government, the county government, the local school board, the principle, the teacher, the teacher's union, and a couple of dozen other rugrats.

Who, generally, has a kid's better interest at heart?

Which one has a ~50% failure rate?
Jan. 12, 2009 5:24 p.m. ManofFewWords Reader

Just for kicks, what is the percentage of homeschooled children in the U.S.?
Jan. 12, 2009 5:26 p.m. DILYSI Dave PowerDork

The number 2% is sticking in my head, but I can't give you a reference.
Jan. 12, 2009 5:32 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

DILYSI Dave wrote:

Home schooling's success does depend on the parents. Public schooling's success depends on the federal government, the state government, the county government, the local school board, the principle, the teacher, the teacher's union, and a couple of dozen other rugrats.

Who, generally, has a kid's better interest at heart?

Which one has a ~50% failure rate?

Having worked at a private school for a while, there was one thing that unified the best students: parent involvement. You could always tell which students had parents who taok an interest and involved themselves in educating their children, even if they're not "teaching" them.

I'm certain the same thing holds true of public schools. I bet all the students who have parents taking an interest in their education are succeeding. And that any child failing doesn't have parents who are supporting their education (or has some special need).

If a parent doesn't care enough to be supportive, they sure don't care enough to be responsible.

I bet students who are successful in home schooling could also be successful in another school, because they have parents who care about and support their education.
Jan. 12, 2009 5:47 p.m. DILYSI Dave PowerDork

Salanis wrote:

I bet students who are successful in home schooling could also be successful in another school, because they have parents who care about and support their education.

I agree.
Jan. 12, 2009 5:56 p.m. billy3esq Dork

Salanis wrote:

Homeschooling does not teach children two very important skills: Acculturation and socialization....

I've been trying really hard to stay out of this, but I can't let this one go. Public schools are terrible at acculturation and socialization because they consistently place children into a cohort that includes only the most similar people, i.e., same age, gifted vs. challenged, athletes vs. academics, band geeks vs. normal humans, etc.

Conversely, home schooled children (unless they're only children) will of necessity have to work with younger and/or older siblings, adults, etc. Additionally, most home schoolers I've known go out of their way to involve their children in other activities (athletics, scouts, church youth groups, etc.) to accomplish recreation and social development. Incidentally, this is much more similar to the "one-room schoolhouse" of old, which I think most would agree did a better job of educating children than the modern public school system.

It's certainly true that there have been a bunch of messed up home schoolers (largely, but not entirely, from the Bible-and-a-stick crowd mentioned above), but the fact is that most home schoolers are perfectly well-adjusted. In fact, my experience (which is not insubstantial) leads me to believe that most are better-adjusted than their public school counterparts.
Jan. 12, 2009 6:05 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

billy3esq wrote:

Salanis wrote:

Homeschooling does not teach children two very important skills: Acculturation and socialization....

How to shut up and deal with bullE36 M3; And how to deal with working with a bunch of people you'd rather not spend your time with.

I've been trying really hard to stay out of this, but I can't let this one go. Public schools are terrible at acculturation and socialization because they consistently place children into a cohort that includes only the most similar people, i.e., same age, gifted vs. challenged, athletes vs. academics, band geeks vs. normal humans, etc.

I meant that more as a joke. Hence the second half, with the goofy smiley.
Jan. 12, 2009 6:35 p.m. ronbros New Reader

ever feel as tho,(WE THE PEOPLE) are the VICTIMS of the INSANE!!!
Jan. 12, 2009 7:15 p.m. minimac Dork

Marjorie Suddard wrote:

.......... Thread's over to you guys.

Margie

Sure, stir the sauce, then sit back and watch the crazies!
Jan. 12, 2009 7:16 p.m. Osterizer HalfDork

Yikes!

As the product of a mid-pack public school system, all I've got is the obvious comment that parental involvement is more important than anything.

Ya'll love your kids!
Jan. 12, 2009 8:05 p.m. billy3esq Dork

Salanis wrote:

billy3esq wrote:

Salanis wrote:

Homeschooling does not teach children two very important skills: Acculturation and socialization....

How to shut up and deal with bullE36 M3; And how to deal with working with a bunch of people you'd rather not spend your time with.

I've been trying really hard to stay out of this, but I can't let this one go. Public schools are terrible at acculturation and socialization because they consistently place children into a cohort that includes only the most similar people, i.e., same age, gifted vs. challenged, athletes vs. academics, band geeks vs. normal humans, etc.

I meant that more as a joke. Hence the second half, with the goofy smiley.

I thought the smiley only applied to the second half. Besides, even if you weren't serious there's a large segment of the population who really believe that. In fact, if I had $1 for every bozo who told me that all homeschoolers grow up to be maladjusted misanthropes, I could send my kids to the most exclusive private school in Houston.

Interestingly, your second half sounds like my view of team sports. The most useful thing team sports teaches is how to work around a bunch of untalented morons to accomplish something worthwhile and then how to deal with them wanting to share (or take) the credit.

Besides, I really thought my crack about the band geeks was the real flame bait.
Jan. 12, 2009 9:34 p.m. Mental UltraDork

billy3esq wrote:

...Besides, I really thought my crack about the band geeks was the real flame bait.

If I knew then what I know about band nerds now, I would have grabbed a set of cymbals and a big furry hat. That was some homeschoolin' I missed.
Jan. 13, 2009 1:48 p.m. poopshovel Dork

Angry said:
Mikey, take your hands off of Joey's penis and sit in your seat.

Dude, there's no need to resort to personal insults. I was young and I needed the lunch money...okay, cigarette money.
March 6, 2009 12:20 p.m. ronbros New Reader

WELL! now that Obama,s in office ,, it is nice to see things getting better!
March 6, 2009 12:30 p.m. 93celicaGT2 HalfDork

I LOVE instant gratification!
March 6, 2009 12:37 p.m. ronbros New Reader

I can tell you have never driven a race car!! and won the race
March 6, 2009 12:40 p.m. neon4891 SuperDork

What has happened? Is a superintedant in a new portion of patio?
March 6, 2009 1:14 p.m. 93celicaGT2 HalfDork

ronbros wrote:

I can tell you have never driven a race car!! and won the race

Dude i won the race yesterday! And learned to drive today!
March 6, 2009 2:25 p.m. VanillaSky New Reader

They're looking at laying 120 teachers off in our county. We neighbor Volusia County, but we are mostly rural and have FAR fewer schools than Volusia County. We got a new superintendant, I'm personally hoping that those positions can be saved, and maybey they could even hire a few new teachers.

My wife is a certified teacher that can't find a job in this county, or any neighboring counties.
March 7, 2009 6:34 a.m. ZOOMiata Dork

Thanks goodness we stopped funding schools through the local ratepayers in Ontario. It hasn't been all a bed of roses, but it has at least equalized the playing field in all districts.

Tommy can come and live with us -- I work at an AP school with a strong arts program. Last year our students earned over $150000 in sch0larships (grad class of 130).

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