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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » snorting coke off a hooker's ass (or: geothermal heat/AC

Nov. 6, 2011 1:04 a.m. curtis73 Dork

Ok, this thread is really about geothermal, but I made you look, didn't I?

I'm about to close on a house in Penn Hills (near Pittsburgh) that currently has a well for water. City sewer was just installed, so that means city water is probably happening within 5 years.

So I'll have a property with a functioning well that isn't used. Someone suggested that I use it for geothermal heat and A/C. I know that the startup cost for geo is high, but is that because you have to drill a well first?

Can you even use a "normal" well for geo?
Nov. 6, 2011 4:59 a.m. JoeyM SuperDork

Was she cute? Why don't we have pictu.......Oh wait, never mind.
Nov. 6, 2011 5:31 a.m. tr8todd Reader

You will need multiple deep wells. The number of which depends on the heat loss/needs of your house. Typical house is at least 4- 600 foot deep wells. Some areas of the country you can lay out an array of pipes underground similar to a giant septic leaching field, but you need the open space. Most houses don't have that much space, hence the wells. Ball park for drilling these wells is around $12 to $14 a foot plus the cost of all of the piping and well casing down to bedrock. Once you get inside the house, the equipment costs are roughly the same as other HVAC systems. Costs are roughly the same to the contractor, but your costs will be higher because there are less players in the game. Good HVAC contractors charge a premium and the ones that do geo charge even more. Think gas station mechanic vs Ferrari mechanic.
Nov. 6, 2011 6:18 a.m. DeadSkunk Dork

I've toured a house in Northville, Michigan that had 3 wells and they were 185 feet deep. The house was brand new and built to the highest standards for sealing and insulation,so could get by with less than Todd indicates. If you want geothermal you may as well budget for a complete system, including the requisite number of wells.Your money might be better spent on upgrading the insulation and envelope sealing of the house.
Nov. 6, 2011 7:07 a.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

Hookers? Oh damn.... A guy who's done it: http://www.ricksgeo.com/

Complete DIY kits: http://www.geothermalheaters.com/geothermal-diy/

It comes down to how big the lot is. It's cheaper to dig trenches and lay a ground loop in either a 'slinky' configuration or (more efficient) in a linear configuration. Wells are certainly an option but you need to have an experienced pro do this because any air pockets in/around the tubing will drastically affect the heat transfer capacity, which accounts for the higher cost.
Nov. 6, 2011 7:12 a.m. fasted58 SuperDork

open loop system is not recommended for W Pa
Nov. 6, 2011 8:04 a.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

fasted 58 mentioned open loop systems. While certainly an option, the variables of water quality and having the intake get clogged with debris mean that it's a good bit higher maintenance. Me, I'd stick with closed loop because once properly installed they are pretty much maintenance free. If correctly installed there is no reason the loops shouldn't last at least 100 years, the heat exchanger setup probably 20 but replacing it is comparatively easy.
Nov. 6, 2011 8:32 a.m. 1988RedT2 Dork

Pretty sure this is the first ever thread including the terms "deep well" and "hooker's ass."
Nov. 6, 2011 9:52 a.m. nderwater SuperDork

1988RedT2 wrote:

Pretty sure this is the first ever thread including the terms "deep well" and "hooker's ass."

"And on that bombshell... See you next week!"
Nov. 6, 2011 10:19 a.m. carguy123 SuperDork

3 wells at 185 simply won't shed the heat for more than about 2 people in a small square footage house if you are south of the USA border.

That's like putting a Civic radiator on your new V8 SS Camaro.
Nov. 6, 2011 10:40 a.m. DeadSkunk Dork

carguy123 wrote:

3 wells at 185 simply won't shed the heat for more than about 2 people in a small square footage house if you are south of the USA border.

That's like putting a Civic radiator on your new V8 SS Camaro.

The house is supremely insulated and sealed, and has overhangs shielding the windows from the summer sun. Claimed heating/cooling cost is $30/month.I've been in other houses built by the same firm and one of them never dropped below 55 degrees through the winter it was constructed, and there wasn't even a heating system installed when I toured it. 62 degrees inside, 22 outside and no heating system yet when I toured it on Valentine's Day! I was impressed.
Nov. 6, 2011 11:01 a.m. tr8todd Reader

I just finished plumbing a new 3500 square foot house built out of insulated concrete blocks. Walls were 12 inches of concrete with rigid insulation on each side. Claimed R value was over 50 for the walls. This would have been the perfect house for geothermal and or radiant floor heat. Unfortunately, the home owner overran his budget. He busted the budget on a detached 32X40 garage with 14 foot ceilings, a lift, running water and heat to go along with the oversized two car attached to the house. Can't say I blame him. I'd take the garage space over the fancy heating system any day.
Nov. 6, 2011 11:12 a.m. DeadSkunk Dork

A 1280 sq. ft. garage !! That's the choice I'd make, too. Unfortunately, the cost of building an energy efficient home here in Michigan is a hefty premium over conventional stick built homes. The two firms that I follow will both tell you to add $50-60K for all the features they put into their homes. That covers the geothermal,super insulation,ICF basements,more wood in the framing, different trusses, and a large truckload of caulking among other things!
Nov. 6, 2011 11:53 a.m. Hal Dork

fasted58 wrote:

open loop system is not recommended for W Pa

What he said. You may have a well in Penn Hills but that is one of the few areas in SW PA that you can get away with that. I grew up in the area (Irwin) and no one had a well, it was all city water. The water supply was so contaminated by the abandoned coal mines that wells were not possible.
Nov. 6, 2011 1:36 p.m. curtis73 Dork

this house is very small, but also built in 1937 so probably very poorly insulated. It was at least updated in the 60s with double pane windows but by today's standards its probably terrible. The footprint is 576 sq ft (24 x 24) with a finished basement and a half-story upstairs (peaked ceilings with dormers)

... Hence my backwards thinking... until I get around to better insulating it, its better to waste earth heat instead of fossil fuel heat. The house is heavily shaded but probably gets 5-6 hours of sun on the roof in summer. I don't think that cooling will be the big issue, but 6 months out of the year heating will be demanding.

The lot is one acre. The front 2/3 of the lot are mostly exposed ground and the house is on the back 1/3 which is partially wooded and shielded at the back (south side) with a wooded hill.

So using a well is for cooling and the buried tubing is for heating? I'm pretty clueless on this.
Nov. 6, 2011 2:02 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

In reply to curtis73:

You use the same well or buried tubing for both heating and cooling.
Nov. 6, 2011 9:44 p.m. M2Pilot Reader

Around 25 years ago the last ex-wife & I had a 2600 sq ft or so house built. It was in the country on 1.5 ac. & outr back property line was a lake. The house was well, but not super, insulated. Had to drill over 200' to get adequat water & got over 80 gpm. Had a water source heat pump installed. Got water from the well & drained it into the lake & also used it to irrigate lawn & garden. Kept the house toasty in the winter & very cool in summer & utility bill was around 60% of what it had been in previous well insulated 1850 sq ft house. This was in eastern NC. Don't remember what the initial cost was.
Nov. 7, 2011 9:23 a.m. Conquest351 HalfDork

Wait, weren't you in Austin?
Nov. 7, 2011 9:56 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

Yes, you made me look.

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