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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » So excited about this new dent

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April 3, 2009 5:20 p.m. ddavidv SuperDork

P71 wrote:

Do NOT under any circumstances let them "blend" paint!!! That is 100% total utter BULLE36 M3. "Blending" causes massive damage to surrounding panels by covering the already A-OK base/clear with a "fogged" base/clear because the shop was too lazy to properly paint match and then cut/buff. Blending is a sign of a SUB-standard shop. RUN AWAY!
Your reply is maybe 20% accurate, and I'm being generous.

I'm guessing they are replacing the fender. From the original photo it looks like it may be buckled above the wheel opening (or it may be a shadow...but I'm going with the former). Regardless, blending into the door is a 90% probability at a minimum. There's absolutely nothing wrong with blending; it's SOP for base/clear repairs and is actually one of the wonderful things about them that you can usually pull it off with little drama. Our hysterical poster that I quoted had an experience with an INEPT REPAIR SHOP. Blending didn't cause his problems; idiots armed with spray guns did.

I am not a big fan of unnecessary blending though. The door is a fer sure. The hood is a big maybe, though it may possibly need it. You NEVER blend a bumper cover. The damn things don't match half the time from the factory anyway (and if you want to know why, I can bore you with the details from a PPG bulletin I carry with me). I would seek out another shop simply based on the apparent greed exhibited by them wanting to blend half the car for a simple fender job. Volvo certified or whatever doesn't mean squat.

I deal with this every day for a living, so I know just a smidge about it.
April 3, 2009 6:01 p.m. P71 Dork

Please explain to me how dusting color and clear over an already perfectly finished panel is acceptable? I've seen shops color match 50-year old paint with no blending so how hard can it be to do 2-3 year old paint? Seriously? There is no logical reason to blend a panel whatsoever, it either needs paint or it doesn't.

Blending (especially of this magnitude) is a sign of an inferior shop that likes to hide their mistakes. There's no reason that body panel can't be repaired and repainted. The additional expense to procure a new panel, paint it inside and out, paint half the damn car (bumper, hood, door), etc is just ridiculous no matter which way you cut it.
April 3, 2009 9:21 p.m. benzbaron Reader

Sucks to hear you got hit. Driving around town is starting to suck, especially when people dont give an old car a break.

I got a pretty nasty dent in the benz from when I went to the Evil Empire(inland empire). A piece blew off my aunts roof and pegged my poor old car. Hell I think I'm just going to have some dent repair guy pull it out and bondo it and then I'll paint it with the mail ordered "matched" paint which looks different.
April 4, 2009 1:54 a.m. Wally SuperDork

P71 wrote:

Please explain to me how dusting color and clear over an already perfectly finished panel is acceptable? I've seen shops color match 50-year old paint with no blending so how hard can it be to do 2-3 year old paint? Seriously? There is no logical reason to blend a panel whatsoever, it either needs paint or it doesn't.

Blending (especially of this magnitude) is a sign of an inferior shop that likes to hide their mistakes. There's no reason that body panel can't be repaired and repainted. The additional expense to procure a new panel, paint it inside and out, paint half the damn car (bumper, hood, door), etc is just ridiculous no matter which way you cut it.

ddavidv is right. In a past job I preped 100's of cars for paint and we almost always blended into an adjacent vertical panel (door, fender ect), especially a metalic or pearl. And there is no dusting of clearcoat. The panel is prep, color coat is dusted into the panel, and the entire part is cleared just like the new part. It's sop for every line of paint we dealt with, at least in any of the training sessions I sat through from the paint companies. Sometimes you get lucky and the color matches perfect, but if it isn't perfect you wasted more time redoing the job. As to the panel needing replacement I would trust the opinion of the people seeing it in person over what I see in a picture on line. If the ins company is willing to shell out for new instead of a little bit of filler I would think there is reason why. But then this is the internet and you did respond with quite a bit of alarm and authority so I'm sure you're right.
April 4, 2009 6:03 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

P71 wrote:

Please explain to me how dusting color and clear over an already perfectly finished panel is acceptable?

Probably because every single paint manufacturer out there says it is.

Panel painting and getting a color match is extremely difficult. Additionally, with fade over time it will stand out like the proverbial sore thumb. The fading/blending of color into adjacent panels helps fool the eye and makes such inevitable minor differences pretty much vanish. Where you are completely wrong is that the entire panel gets cleared, which seals in the color work and prevents any hazy edges or peel-back. That's how it's supposed to be done...cob shops will cut corners and do stupid things like clear up to a pinstripe and tape it off there. Like on my wife's Impreza we bought used. That was lousy work. People like that shouldn't own a stirring stick. If you choose a lousy shop that cuts corners I can't help you. But don't go around spewing half-truths based on your one experience.
April 4, 2009 9:32 a.m. P71 Dork

The lousy shop was a major national insurance chain's #1 recommended place in the area. What I'm saying is don't trust the insurance company's shop!

While it may be standard procedure for you guys to clear the whole part, not a single one of the dozen-plus shops I talked to about repairing it did it that way. Maybe corner-cutting and sub-par work is standard up here, but they all want to "dust-in" the clear (exact words BTW).

There's shops up here that can paint match perfectly without blending. With advances in computer technology it's possible to get so close that the naked eye can't tell. Go look at pictures of my cop car and try to guess which panel has been replaced. That's work done correctly. When my SHO got hit lightly (as opposed to the 2 times it was totaled) I had a quality shop repair the front bumper. This was a Deep Jewel Green Pearl car and the painted just the bumper. It was perfectly matched to the fenders and hood with NO blending. You get what you pay for.

I've seen clear to striping, clear over the striping, striping trimmed out ON the vehicle with razor blades, overspray galor, filler like crazy, and even outright fraud. This is not just one experience.
April 4, 2009 10:46 a.m. ManofFewWords Reader

How many cars have you painted P71?
April 4, 2009 11:11 a.m. Wally SuperDork

P71 wrote:

The lousy shop was a major national insurance chain's #1 recommended place in the area. What I'm saying is don't trust the insurance company's shop!

While it may be standard procedure for you guys to clear the whole part, not a single one of the dozen-plus shops I talked to about repairing it did it that way. Maybe corner-cutting and sub-par work is standard up here, but they all want to "dust-in" the clear (exact words BTW).

There's shops up here that can paint match perfectly without blending. With advances in computer technology it's possible to get so close that the naked eye can't tell. Go look at pictures of my cop car and try to guess which panel has been replaced. That's work done correctly. When my SHO got hit lightly (as opposed to the 2 times it was totaled) I had a quality shop repair the front bumper. This was a Deep Jewel Green Pearl car and the painted just the bumper. It was perfectly matched to the fenders and hood with NO blending. You get what you pay for.

I've seen clear to striping, clear over the striping, striping trimmed out ON the vehicle with razor blades, overspray galor, filler like crazy, and even outright fraud. This is not just one experience.

If you've seen all that at different shops than corner cutting and sub par work is standard there. I've worked in three body shops, and the only times I've ever seen a panel dusted with clear were the very occasional low budget, out of pocket quarter panel repair where it was dusted into the C-pillar/roof and the customer was told it would only look good for a few months tops.
April 4, 2009 1:58 p.m. ddavidv SuperDork

P71 wrote:

The lousy shop was a major national insurance chain's #1 recommended place in the area. What I'm saying is don't trust the insurance company's shop!

You'll get no argument from me on this. The shops that insurance companies select are not selected on work quality so much as the ability to work with the company in question and, most importantly, do fast turnaround on jobs. There are very few 'direct' repair shops I recommend even in my conservative area. One of them is even a Honda dealer and they are near the bottom when it comes to quality.

'Dusting in' used to be SOP on quarter panels because there was often not a clean 'break' up by the roof. A partial clear WILL fail eventually. Insurers warranted it (paint manufacturers do not) as an acceptable repair because in most cases the car would pass on to another owner before a problem arose. Now, with most vehicles having roof edge moldings, it's pretty easy to justify clearing the outer uniside/windshield pillar.

P71, curious as to where you live. That sort of piss-poor workmanship around here would never fly. And, you're still wrong.
April 4, 2009 11:37 p.m. P71 Dork

I've painted three whole cars and done touch-up work on five.
April 5, 2009 6:55 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

I've painted a challenge car. I painted my own race car with a roller. I've sprayed a few fenders. Doesn't make either one of us an expert on blending.However, I think I've sat through far more training with PPG paint people than you probably have, as well as deal with body shops and their painters on a daily basis.

But, we're sinking to a "my penis is bigger than yours" argument. You do it your way and I'll do it mine.
April 5, 2009 7:01 a.m. Wally SuperDork

ddavidv wrote:

'Dusting in' used to be SOP on quarter panels because there was often not a clean 'break' up by the roof. A partial clear WILL fail eventually. Insurers warranted it (paint manufacturers do not) as an acceptable repair because in most cases the car would pass on to another owner before a problem arose. Now, with most vehicles having roof edge moldings, it's pretty easy to justify clearing the outer uniside/windshield pillar.

That was one of the few times vinal tops were a good thing.
April 5, 2009 9:27 a.m. P71 Dork

You're the ones that asked me. I really could care less. I'm just trying to warn the OP before he makes a major mistake. Insurance companies don't give a flying E36 M3 about you, me, or him and neither do the repair shops. They're all about money, which is why now it's "standard practice" to do stupid stuff like replace a whole fender that any skilled bodyman would have fixed without a second thought 20-30 years ago.

If you think "blending" is acceptable for your car then by all means have at it. After all of the trouble and cars I've seen I think it is not and so I will never let a shop or anyone else blend any of my cars. I've learned from my experience and that's my opinion that I'm sharing. If you don't like it that's fine but there's no reason for the insults, I didn't insult you, your intelligence, or your penis size. I also won't have to stare at a car with improper work done on it every day.

I should go take a picture of my neighbor's Civic. It was blended. The blending doesn't hide the fact that they color waaaaaaay off. It looks like crap. Less then 2 years since it was "fixed" and now they can't sell it for anything like what an OEM painted one goes for. Hey, live and learn.

Y'all have a nice day. I'm going to enjoy the sun and go back to the swap meet to stare at E36 M3 I can't afford.
April 5, 2009 4:33 p.m. wlkelley3 HalfDork

Well, I know how you feel Rangeball. Was out doing yardwork yesterday and noticed a dent on my old pickup. Just used for hauling nowadays. It's a 95 F150 XLT extended cab w/"Sportruck" flares & running boards, factory tow package, big engine, 2 gas tanks and bedliner. Was a nice looking truck in it's day but clear coat is peeling now and that was the only issue besides high milage (>202,000) - no dents till now. A small dent w/crease under the right rear taillight. Last time I drove it was about 2 1/2 weeks ago to pickup a bookcase my wife wanted. Didn't notice the dent then.
April 6, 2009 7:25 a.m. Rangeball Reader

Well, glad the discussion continued while I was out at the beach.

Insurance is coming by in a few to give me an estimate. I am asking around for reputable body shops in the Jax area. If anyone knows any, please feel free to suggest.
April 6, 2009 8:31 a.m. Rangeball Reader

Damage is in. Pretty high but I imagined it would be. Going to take it to the shop soon.

Thanks for all the help!
April 6, 2009 8:45 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

Rangeball wrote:

Damage is in. Pretty high but I imagined it would be. Going to take it to the shop soon.

Thanks for all the help!

Is it fender or quarter panel. You never clarified. You said quarter, but it sure looks like a fender to me in the pic. Big difference.

Also, WRT the pissing contest - you're both wrong. :) The only right answer is full respray. Guaranteed match.
April 6, 2009 8:50 a.m. Wally SuperDork

Sure when you've got that fancy BMW Money you can just go around painting everything
April 6, 2009 8:51 a.m. Rangeball Reader

Yea, fender. Sorry, I got confused on the two.

Fender panel, Fender liner, Fender wheel molding, Fender mudguard

The insurance assessor guy was really nice. Actually from/near my home town. He gave me a couple of ideas. None which I will discuss here and some recommendations on body shops. He said the shop I went to does good work. Considering this is primarily the wife's car, I am going to just get it looking 'good'. Otherwise she will remind me.

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