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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Some election observations (long winded)

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Nov. 1, 2010 3:14 p.m. Wally SuperDork

This last day before election day I am being bombarded with ads, calls, and people trying to put signs on my lawn. I hae a few questions and comments on what I've seen/heard today.

The county next to us is electing a coroner. What kind of mud can you sling at an opponent to convince the publiic he's not qualified to deal with dead bodies. Unless he's buried someone alive I would guess he's doing alright. From what I understand they are not doing the actual autopsies, there is a seperate ME to do that so they basically need to be able to take a pulse and drive a station wagon.

Please, everyone, take a deep breath and get your underware sorted out. Yes Barack is spending our money to campaign. Same as every president has done since the invention of campaigning. It happens. Our side did it, there side did it, I'm sure at some point Lincoln used valuble ink to pen a piece in the Boston Hearld extolling the virtures of Charles Sumner, causing tens of people to get their knickers in a bunch, and they didn't even have talk radio to vent on. Get over it, there are much bigger problems you can lose sleep over.

All the people saying Obama won the election, the people want his plans to go through, and the right has no right to complain about it. Where were you folks for 1980-92, and 2000-2008? Complaining about how the party in power was ignoring your wishes. It runs both ways. For eight years you got whine about how the president was an shiny happy person. Let someone else have a turn. They don't sound any dumber that you did when you were doing it.

If you are running on the fact that have over 30 years experience in office please stop. We've been heading for the cliff for at least that long. If you can't show me how you have tried to pull the brakes or change course or do anthing besides shove more coal into the fire, this mess belongs to you and no one belives you can get us back out of it.
Nov. 1, 2010 3:18 p.m. DukeOfUndersteer SuperDork

if another campain supporter steps in front of my car and shake his cannidate's flyer while i am traveling on the road, i WILL RUN THEM OVER!!!

They pop out, into the road as i am going home - doing 50mph! I notice its in front of the local churches too. Get the hell outta my way!
Nov. 1, 2010 3:32 p.m. triumph5 HalfDork

You have to run for office to be a CORONER??!! I would have so much fun with campaign mottos... it just boggles the mind. "We must be flexible with our spending on stiffs!" "CSI 'Vegas endorsed!" "John Smith, just how comfortable is he with the dead?" "First man there with my black van." yeah, cringe, but, hey, running for office to be a coroner?
What's next> Crossing Guard? Don't want to even slightly go there. And yes, everybody, calm down. The world will not stop on it's axis on the 3rd.
Nov. 1, 2010 3:37 p.m. mtn SuperDork

triumph5 wrote:

You have to run for office to be a CORONER??!!

My Grandad was county coroner. As far as I know, he was also one of 3 doctors in the county--and one was his dad. So he may very well have been the only candidate. Somewhere I have a bunch of little election paraphanalia with his name on it "Name for County Coroner". Pretty cool stuff to me. And I just realized... He died while he was coroner. Isn't that interesting?
Nov. 1, 2010 4:05 p.m. oldtin HalfDork

^^^ would have to pronounce himself dead and inform the family - tough gig. An interesting tidbit - county coroner around here also has police powers. Only local official with the police authority to arrest the county sherriff. Sadly unused powers knowing our local politics.

On the big picture, the only way to sort crap out is go look up an incumbent's voting record (and know what it was they were actually voting on). Make up your own mind if they are a tolerable douche or an intolerable one - although it's getting tough to work it out when there are bills that are written along the lines of part a - molesting priests is illegal and part b - legislators get a raise.
Nov. 1, 2010 4:16 p.m. mndsm Dork

I've determined I should run for political office. Not because I share an interest in politics, not because I'm college educated (I went inside a college once, they had an arcade) and not because I really want to be city-county-whatever. I want to do it on the simple basis that I figure it takes a nutball like me to get the VAST majority to pay attention to what they're doing.

A very brilliant man told me something once-

"I didn't run for governor to be governor. I don't believe I am the smartest man, nor am I going to claim that I'm the best person for the job. I'm only one guy. BUT- What have I accomplished? I have had higher voter turnout and people taking interest in politics and their own governmental well being than in the past couple of decades"

That man-

Former governor of MN Jesse Ventura. Wearing a sweatshirt and some New Balance, sitting on a nice comfy couch in the mansion during a family Xmas party. I may have paraphrased it a little, but that really hit home with me.

Too many people have lost interest in politics in general, and the only time you hear them piss and moan is either A- when an elected official does something COLOSSALY stupid- like pay to stick their peen0r in a rented hoo-ha. OR- when they claim to be from party A- and whine that party B is doing the wrong thing. I was dumbfounded at how many sheep there were at my last poll- during the Obama election. People voting so blindly based on either party lines or what mom tells em to do or this or that, without bothering to read for themselves. I WISH a candidate for something would show up at my house. I'd grill that berkeleyer till he ran in terror....
Nov. 1, 2010 4:57 p.m. Keith SuperDork

I just ask them how they feel about immigrants being able to vote. Given that I don't look much like a stereotypical "immigrant", this is usually followed by a look of terror in their eyes as their perceptions come crashing into reality...
Nov. 1, 2010 5:05 p.m. WilberM3 Reader

In reply to Keith:

if 'immigrant' is preceded by the term 'legal' i can't imagine how or why anyone could be against it.
Nov. 1, 2010 5:42 p.m. Keith SuperDork

Well, a legal immigrant isn't necessarily a citizen, and not everyone thinks a non-citizen should vote - but they should pay taxes A group of open-minded adults could have a good and worthwhile discussion about voting and citizenship. Regardless, it's a really quick way to get a campaigner or pollster to bugger off.

However, for many people, the word "illegal" is implied when talking about immigrants - even though it shouldn't be. That's why I don't bother to add it, because it makes people think.
Nov. 2, 2010 11:00 a.m. madmallard Reader

its doesn't make people think, it causes category errors.

Be specific, or you're actually contributing to the demogaguery.

Liberal politics almost never invoke 'illegal' in anything they say, trying to paint the broad brush that either its not a problem, or that there is no such thing as being here illegally, only being 'undocumented' or other such nonsense.
Nov. 2, 2010 11:22 a.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

Keith wrote:

Well, a legal immigrant isn't necessarily a citizen, and not everyone thinks a non-citizen should vote - but they should pay taxes A group of open-minded adults could have a good and worthwhile discussion about voting and citizenship. Regardless, it's a really quick way to get a campaigner or pollster to bugger off.

However, for many people, the word "illegal" is implied when talking about immigrants - even though it shouldn't be. That's why I don't bother to add it, because it makes people think.

What is your point? If you aren't a citizen, you can't vote. If you work in the USA and earn money, you pay taxes. That is pretty straight forward, and I don't quite understand why anyone would think they are entitled to more?
Nov. 2, 2010 11:29 a.m. Keith SuperDork

Well, check out the (original) Boston tea party for how some Americans used to feel about being taxed without representation.

There are such things as legal immigrants - I'm one. There are also such things as illegal immigrants. But if you read the media or swallow the election crap that shows up in your mailbox, then you don't make that distinction. All immigrants are illegal, taking American jobs and probably stealing babies. By confronting someone as a legal, tax-paying (and white) immigrant you force them to start making that distinction in their own minds. It's got nothing to do with "liberal" politics but about critical thinking.
Nov. 2, 2010 11:42 a.m. mtn SuperDork

Keith wrote:

There are such things as legal immigrants - I'm one.

This isn't meant to start any argument or combat any points, I'm just curious...

Do you/can you still vote in Canadian elections?
Nov. 2, 2010 11:43 a.m. MCarp22 Reader

Keith,

If i ever make it out to a FM openhouse, I owe you at least a high five.

<-- Father in law is an Immigrant from the UK
Nov. 2, 2010 11:44 a.m. wcelliot HalfDork

It has everything to do with leftist politics. That lack of distinction is typically only made by pro-illiegal immigration types... wanting to paint anti-illegal immigration types as anti-immigrant in general...

Very few anti-illegal immigrant types are anti-immigrant... in fact many of them just can't understand why legal immigrants would be pro-illegal immigration.

It's sort of like bank customers being pro-bank robbery... they don't seem to make a distinction between legal withdrawals and a stick-up... and are the ones most likely to be hit in the crossfire...
Nov. 2, 2010 11:47 a.m. Tim Baxter SuperDork

It's got nothing to do with "liberal" politics but about critical thinking.

Well, there's your problem. Critical thinking is pretty rare these days. Hell, thinking at all rather than just parrotting your preferred party's talking points is rare enough, but critical thinking may as well be made from triple-filtered unicorn tears.

Actually, you'd probably be more likely to see a unicorn cry than see real-life critical thinking.
Nov. 2, 2010 11:56 a.m. MCarp22 Reader

With these candidates we are seemingly stuck If they do their jobs, it'll be solely by luck Whether one votes to left or to right It's clearly in sight Either way we're totally out of options.
Nov. 2, 2010 11:59 a.m. Keith SuperDork

If you live in the US as an immigrant, you become fairly aware of the lack of distinction. I tend to notice it more from the right, but that's because it's typically anti-immigration propaganda and without the distinction between legal and illegal. I do believe that if it were easier to immigrate legally, there would be more legal immigrants. The hoops you have to go through are very expensive and faintly ridiculous.

Can I still vote in Canada? Yes. Do I? No, because I haven't lived there for a decade. I'm simply not informed enough to make a good decision.

I do enjoy the attack ads. They just get so ridiculous. And I do believe that everyone should get out and vote, regardless of their affiliation or even if they think all immigrants (of all sorts) should be packed up and shipped home.
Nov. 2, 2010 12:04 p.m. WilberM3 Reader

are you in the process of becoming a US Citizen?
Nov. 2, 2010 12:08 p.m. Keith SuperDork

I have to be a "permanent resident" (as opposed to my previous status of "resident alien") for another year before starting the process.

Fun thing to do - you can download the list of questions on the citizenship test. Lots of history, structure of government, etc (I already know more of this than a few Americans, even without studying) but my favorite is "when are your income taxes due". That's a fundamental piece of knowledge
Nov. 2, 2010 12:17 p.m. madmallard Reader

Keith wrote: There are such things as legal immigrants - I'm one. There are also such things as illegal immigrants. But if you read the media or swallow the election crap that shows up in your mailbox, then you don't make that distinction. All immigrants are illegal, taking American jobs and probably stealing babies. By confronting someone as a legal, tax-paying (and white) immigrant you force them to start making that distinction in their own minds. It's got nothing to do with "liberal" politics but about critical thinking.

It has everything to do with liberal politics.

I, quite frankly, couldn't care any less about your affairs if you're a legal immigrant. If you're following the laws, then its not my business. Its self-evident that if you're a legal immigrant, there's no problem to complain about. Invoking the word legal in this case is redundant.

I also couldn't care any less if you're white or plaid, and I only mildly care if you speak English as long as you followed the law to be a legal resident, temporary guest, or to become a full citizen.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it, if you're just an immigrant i don't care. Its not really any of my business.

Liberal politics nearly ALWAYS 'abstain' from ever using the word 'illegal' when discussing illegal immigration problems. That presumes a strawman arguement that says that I have a problem with ALL immigration instead of just illegal immigration. Therefore making me a racist, bigot, fearmongering, chose your canned liberal ad hominem attack from there... Instead, such politics use fluffy words like undocumented workers and so forth.

Conservative politics, even the annoying spam in my street mailbox, specifically identifies ILLEGAL immigration in anything I've been exposed to.
Nov. 2, 2010 12:18 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

Keith wrote:

Well, check out the (original) Boston tea party for how some Americans used to feel about being taxed without representation.

There are such things as legal immigrants - I'm one. There are also such things as illegal immigrants. But if you read the media or swallow the election crap that shows up in your mailbox, then you don't make that distinction. All immigrants are illegal, taking American jobs and probably stealing babies. By confronting someone as a legal, tax-paying (and white) immigrant you force them to start making that distinction in their own minds. It's got nothing to do with "liberal" politics but about critical thinking.

you don't have to be a non-citizen to be taxed without representation... if i live in texas and work in louisiana, i get to pay LA state income tax, but don't get to vote there. i'd venture a guess that there are a lot more people that are paying income tax in a state they don't live in (and the state they DO live in, too) and are unable to vote in that state than there are resident aliens unable to vote in national elections.
Nov. 2, 2010 12:33 p.m. oldsaw SuperDork

Keith wrote:

If you live in the US as an immigrant, you become fairly aware of the lack of distinction. I tend to notice it more from the right, but that's because it's typically anti-immigration propaganda and without the distinction between legal and illegal. I do believe that if it were easier to immigrate legally, there would be more legal immigrants. The hoops you have to go through are very expensive and faintly ridiculous.

It's been a few generations since ALL my ancestors immigrated here legally, but I'm sure glad they did.

It's disturbing you are exposed to so much "anti-immigration" rhetoric, but that may be due to location - and it is definitely from an extreme POV. I will postulate that most self-defined "conservatives" oppose illegal immigration and whole-heartedly support legal immigration.

As far as easing regulation, since entering the country illegally is so easy, why bother? Sarcasm aside, I'm glad you're here legally and paying taxes. Sorry, that just slipped out.

As far as voting privileges are concerned, I take a somewhat ambivalent view in that it's worth considering in local elections, NOT in federal elections. Yes, a legal immigrant pays federal taxes, but if one wants the right (not the privilege) to affect national policy, one should be a full-fledged citizen.

YMMV.
Nov. 2, 2010 12:37 p.m. Tim Baxter SuperDork

Try living in Kansas City. I get to pay Missouri income tax, plus the ridiculous Earned Income Tax (an extra tax I have to pay for the privilege of having my paycheck originate in Missouri above and beyond normal state taxes), and then I get hammered by Kansas. It's crap, every year.

And by the way, some of you sound like you look for liberal boogeymen under your bed before you go to sleep.
Nov. 2, 2010 12:43 p.m. oldsaw SuperDork

In reply to Tim Baxter:

Gee, I always thought it was those looney conservatives who want to legislate in my bedroom. If liberals are there, too, maybe it's because they want to watch.

Damn those evil voyeurs...

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