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KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
8/30/16 8:32 a.m.

Some of you know I pay fairly brutal child support. Thankfully the light is visible at the end of that particular tunnel.

The other day I was discussing child support with a couple of guys who used to not pay theirs but are currently paying back the state for children which are in their mid twenties. You see if a parent who is not receiving child support from the other parent (you see, I'm being gender neutral) goes on any form of public assistance, the state can and will garnish the earnings of said non-payer to recoup said public assistance. I hope that comes across clearly.

Before you say "so what, they were deadbeats and now they have to pay back their responsibilities." You may not know you were a parent (this applies just to the guys). A friend of mine just finished paying on a child that was magically created during a drunken one night stand. The mother didn't even know his name until she saw him in the newspaper 6 years later.

So the upshot of all this is this: unless you have perfect memory of every single "encounter" you've ever had (and some do, good for you), it's hypothetically possible for you to get a knock on your door one day finding out you have a 16 year old child (yay and yikes!) and that you now owe that baby mamma a mortgage payment each month for the next two years as well as to the state for the next 16 paying them back.

mndsm
mndsm MegaDork
8/30/16 8:40 a.m.

Yeah I'm about to get berkeleyed by Minnesota for that whole thing. Child support was held aside in the divorce decree, but now my ex is thinking she's disabled and needs to be on the dole. She's not. She just refuses to get off her ass.

RevRico
RevRico Dork
8/30/16 8:44 a.m.

This has been one of my biggest fears. As far as I know, my daughter is my only child, but I really wouldn't be surprised if I got a call or letter one day.

I also did not know that public assistance part, that is worrisome. We're civil, share custody, she gets WIC, food stamps(which she'd been getting before baby rev was born) and gets the health insurance. I pay out of pocket for EVERYTHING at my house, but will be claiming her on taxes from now on. We've kept the courts out of it so far and everything is fine, but now you have me worrying.

Of course,,I only make $400 a month on record so it's not like there's much to take, but that won't be permanent for the next 16.5 years. In fact, it's very very likely to turn into much more by this time next year if I can get my E36 M3 together...

Crap.just gotta hold out hope that it took her other kids dad 4 arrests, 2 overdoses, and god knows how many trips to rehab before she (or the state) finally went after him for support. I have bad habits, but not like that.

WilD
WilD HalfDork
8/30/16 8:50 a.m.

This reminds me of a news article I saw a while back about a guy who received a court summons for a child support hearing. He knew he didn't have a kid and didn't know the mother etc. Turns out someone at the court just picked someone with the same/similar name and sent the notice to his address. He blew off the court date so got stuck paying child support for a kid that everyone acknowledges isn't even his.

golfduke
golfduke Reader
8/30/16 8:53 a.m.

14 more alimony payments... 14 more alimony payments...

Child support, I get. I may not agree with the calculation and the fact that I'm paying such an absurd amount... but I get it.

But alimony, when you've legitimately given every single asset save for a beat up E36 M3 (that you decided to further abuse by hammering the crap out of the hood in a fit of rage one night, mind you) to her in the first place... is just a complete, no-lube, rub it in salt and glass shards berkeleying. I pay 34% of my gross annual income in alimony and child support. I have to foot the taxes on that too, which turns that into about 46% of my take-home pay.

RealMiniParker
RealMiniParker UberDork
8/30/16 9:08 a.m.

All my kids are grown up, now, and there's no chance of any "surprise" offspring.

In reply to golfduke:

NFW, you have to pay taxes on the alimony you give her? Child support, I can understand, but not alimony. At least here in Wisconsin, alimony is considered income on the receiver's end, and she pays. Yes, my ex has to pay tax on the money that is extracted from my paycheck. Only 44 months to go. Thankfully, it's a Section 71, where she can't take me back to court for more, when my income goes up (highly probable) or hers goes down (also probable). The length of time can't be altered either, unlike traditional alimony.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
8/30/16 9:11 a.m.

In reply to golfduke:

Ouch dude.

My problem with the child support I pay is that she doesn't need it. After the divorce she went fishing with her newly acquired "assets" to land a Fortune 500 company VP who makes literally 8 times what I do. What is a struggle for me to pay is just some extra gas money for them.

pro tip: if you have been with someone for more than 10 years, any bodywork purchased isn't for your benefit. YMMV

NickD
NickD Dork
8/30/16 9:18 a.m.

Well, "Get royally financially berkeleyed" is now item #2875987267462985 on my list of reasons not to have kids.

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
8/30/16 9:26 a.m.

Talk about some screw jobs...

I have too many hours of driving to and from work and always have worst case scaranio things running through my head. If I was to divorce again, but this time with two kiddos, I'd be after 100% custody first off and if that didn't work, I'd have to have it written in the decree the ex-spouse has to stay working to maintain support, etc....

And last but not least is a damn good lawyer that looks out for ME, not the whole this is how it's going to be, has been done in the past, etc. Those people are just looking for an easy payday, of which divorces are easy money.

Robbie
Robbie UltraDork
8/30/16 9:27 a.m.

Finally my social awkwardness and inability to score becomes a win!

"#nerdsrule"

RealMiniParker
RealMiniParker UberDork
8/30/16 9:33 a.m.
KyAllroad wrote: My problem with the child support I pay is that she doesn't need it. After the divorce she went fishing with her newly acquired "assets" to land a Fortune 500 company VP who makes literally 8 times what I do. What is a struggle for me to pay is just some extra gas money for them. pro tip: if you have been with someone for more than 10 years, any bodywork purchased isn't for your benefit. YMMV

Sorry, man, child support isn't for her. It's for your children, regardless if she marries a millionaire. Why should he have to pay for your kids.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/30/16 9:38 a.m.
RevRico wrote: This has been one of my biggest fears. As far as I know, my daughter is my only child, but I really wouldn't be surprised if I got a call or letter one day. I also did not know that public assistance part, that is worrisome. We're civil, share custody, she gets WIC, food stamps(which she'd been getting before baby rev was born) and gets the health insurance. I pay out of pocket for EVERYTHING at my house, but will be claiming her on taxes from now on. We've kept the courts out of it so far and everything is fine, but now you have me worrying. Of course,,I only make $400 a month on record so it's not like there's much to take, but that won't be permanent for the next 16.5 years. In fact, it's very very likely to turn into much more by this time next year if I can get my E36 M3 together... Crap.just gotta hold out hope that it took her other kids dad 4 arrests, 2 overdoses, and god knows how many trips to rehab before she (or the state) finally went after him for support. I have bad habits, but not like that.

This sounds sketchy at best. Especially adding in the implied tax fraud.

golfduke
golfduke Reader
8/30/16 9:39 a.m.
RealMiniParker wrote: All my kids are grown up, now, and there's no chance of any "surprise" offspring. In reply to golfduke: NFW, you have to pay taxes on the alimony you give her? Child support, I can understand, but not alimony. At least here in Wisconsin, alimony is considered income on the receiver's end, and she pays. Yes, my ex has to pay tax on the money that is extracted from my paycheck. Only 44 months to go. Thankfully, it's a Section 71, where she can't take me back to court for more, when my income goes up (highly probable) or hers goes down (also probable). The length of time can't be altered either, unlike traditional alimony.

I'm actually quite lucky in the fact that Alimony is capped at 24 months in the state of NH. It's meant to be rehabilitative and not fault-based. It's essentially an equasion of income ratios by both parties. Unfortunately, according to the state, my income supported the family exclusively so as a result I have to bear any financial burdens associated with it for 2 years. The underlying issue was that division of assets went strongly in her favor. So not only did I not really get anything of value in terms of assets, but I also have to maintain her financial burden for 2 years afterward, all the while trying to live myself. It's not fair, but at least it's not fair for 2 years, as opposed to a state like California, where alimony is uncapped, fluid, fault-based, and subject to the discretion of a PROVEN (fact, not opinion) maternally sympathetic family court system.

You know, limoncello out of lemons type situation here...

golfduke
golfduke Reader
8/30/16 9:43 a.m.

And yes. I didn't and won't ever contest child support. Whatever my son needs, he gets. In fact, it drives the peanut gallery in my life nuts- why am I paying for YMCA memberships, piano lessons, tennis raquets, or _____ (insert extracurricular doo-dad here) when I'm paying so much in child support every month?

It's simple- he's my son. Who am I to deny him any potential experience that he could latch onto for the rest of his life just because I want to make it a point to spite my ex-wife? I hate that crap.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
8/30/16 9:49 a.m.

In reply to RealMiniParker:

Because it's naïve to think that it's that simple. I pay for my step-kids all the time. I knew they were a part of the package when I started a relationship with their mother. My step-father did the same for us back when I was a kid and mom got remarried.

My issue isn't supporting my kids, I'd be happy to do so if it was needed. My problem is that the law is so uneven and lopsided that the non-custodial parent is no longer treated as a human being but as an ATM for the convenience of the custodial parent. A friend was told once by the child support office when he complained that his baby momma was living three counties away from their daughter and had dumped said child with grandma: "Your job is to pay. The mother can spend that money however she wants." Apparently beer and cigarettes for her boyfriend was an acceptable expense because that is the LAW.

(written awkwardly to maintain gender parity, the reality is that 98% of payers are the father in child support cases)

RealMiniParker
RealMiniParker UberDork
8/30/16 9:58 a.m.

In reply to KyAllroad:

Yeah, it sucks balls that momma can spend the money however she wants. I was in that same situation from my first marriage, for 16 years. But, like golfduke, I still paid for a lot of stuff for my two daughters, because they're mine, not someone else's.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
8/30/16 10:05 a.m.

Only have dalliances with married woman.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
8/30/16 10:19 a.m.

Well, I know I'm safe from that. I can't remember every single encounter, but I can remember every single person. Which is a single person.

RevRico
RevRico Dork
8/30/16 10:35 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac:

No fraud, they get a cut of everything whether I think they should or not. My accountant handles this headache so I don't have to. I figure as long as he's following the rules I'm good. Just hard to quantify "well, bought 6 tractors this year and flipped them for 3000, flipped 2 or 3 cars for a few grand, took on some work here, sold ad space there, have these receipts from ebay etc." in a paycheck format. My accountant says it's fine and I let him handle the paperwork.If he's wrong, oh well, we'll burn that bridge when we get to it. But as long as they're getting money, they really don't care from what I've seen. I just don't do well working for other people, so I do what I can not to.

According to my accountant, I'm fine. But god, some of the things he tells me about are head scratchers. For instance there's a line on the WV state returns for "goats, cows, and pigs of breeding age" but that's a whole other topic.

Much more afraid of other things. Like getting hit with back child support payments even though we never had an agreement, never married, and split everything roughly 60/40(she's at my house more than her mothers), or her other kids dad deciding that scrapping my car is a good way to fund his habits since somebody in his family thinks it's a good idea to keep paying his bail instead of letting him dry out in jail for a while. Or more scary, like Allroads original post, an old hookup or girlfriend showing up with a 10 year old and a DNA test.

From what I've seen here, and with most everyone I've ever met stuck on child support or alimony, the courts HATE fathers, so anything to keep out of court is good as far as I'm concerned. I'm just glad I'm to ugly and anti-social to marry, it sounds like a real headache.

Brian
Brian MegaDork
8/30/16 10:52 a.m.

Berk. The joys of a truly monogamous relationship and a mutual agreement to not have kids. Looking forward to my snip next month.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UltimaDork
8/30/16 11:44 a.m.
mtn wrote: Well, I know I'm safe from that. I can't remember every single encounter, but I can remember every single person. Which is a single person.

Same here and she better not get knocked up again.

The last one (now 33 YO) was a "mistake" and she just moved back in the 3 little ones until her house in WV sells.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UltraDork
8/30/16 3:09 p.m.

I found out that I was sterile around 17 years old after a pretty nasty motorcycle crash and they tested me. Add in the steroids back then and I have been shooting blanks my whole life. Still scared and I am married. Not a good place to be in I assume.

Good luck with all your troubles, but be thankful you can have them if you want.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
8/30/16 3:17 p.m.

I don't. I knew all of my dalliances, know that they're all married and most have their own children. Yay for me!

captdownshift
captdownshift UberDork
8/30/16 3:32 p.m.

This is why I video taped every conquest from my 20s. First to show willing consent and participation and second so that if a surprise came along 9 months later that I could sell the tape to help offset the child support cost. Of course being on tape I normally opted for the $$$ shot, greatly reducing the likelihood of #2 occuring.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin Dork
8/30/16 5:23 p.m.

I generally wear a wig and false teeth, and leave through the back door. Oh,wait. I'm Canadian. We dont claw back social assistance.

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