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GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
12/19/17 6:49 a.m.
NickD said:

If the Rebellion doesn't start scrounging up engines, nav systems and hyperspace drives and strapping them to asteroids and then launching those at First Order ships, they're a bunch of dopes.

I can accept Star Wars being WW2 In Space. If you tried to turn it into hard sci-fi, it wouldn't resemble Star Wars anymore. Maybe hyperdrives are too expensive to use as missiles?

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
12/19/17 7:04 a.m.

Phasma was only introduced last movie to sell toys. They could've killed her off like they did or just left her out entirely and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference to me.

As for Snape/Snope, I am just glad he was not 20 ft tall like he appeared last movie.

I am also glad that the cute penguin things were not really characters and only served to do a few minor stand-ins because Baby Groot was booked already.

Glad there was no death star.

Laughed that they replaced the cantina with a casino.

Salt planet was just Hoth with salt for the most part. That also made me laugh.

I like that they showed us Luke's X-wing under the water, and then restrained themselves from having Rey lift it out of the water with the force as part of her training.

Overall, it was enjoyable for what it was.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
12/19/17 7:49 a.m.

An interesting military perspective on the Rebels' strategic mistakes:

https://www.wired.com/story/star-wars-last-jedi-the-resistance-tactical-mistake/

NickD
NickD UltraDork
12/19/17 8:23 a.m.
GameboyRMH said:

An interesting military perspective on the Rebels' strategic mistakes:

https://www.wired.com/story/star-wars-last-jedi-the-resistance-tactical-mistake/

Yeah, by and large the Rebel tactical brilliance was absent from this one. And for the most part, the First Order played things fairly smart. When their fighters got out of support range of the Star Destroyers and started getting picked off, Hux had them recalled. Rather than get impatient and try something risky, Hux played the long game and just waited for the Rebel ships to run out of fuel and pick them off. Yeah, he lost the dreadnought at the beginning, but he traded it for a bunch of skilled Rebel pilots and their entire bombing fleet and most of their leadership. And the massive ship at the end, they got caught off guard by a kamikaze run, made even less predictable by the fact that the Rebels hadn't done it with their previous disabled ships

 

bigdaddylee82
bigdaddylee82 UltraDork
12/19/17 9:19 a.m.

Obi Wan had a love interest in the Duchess of Mandalore (Boba Fett's home world).  They played with the forbidden love, will they, won't they, angle between the Duchess and Obi Wan in the Clone Wars series.  I don't know if the Clone Wars series is cannon for the new movies, but after hearing the theory that Rey could be Obi Wan's kid, the Duchess was the first person who came to mind.

NickD
NickD UltraDork
12/19/17 9:52 a.m.
bigdaddylee82 said:

Obi Wan had a love interest in the Duchess of Mandalore (Boba Fett's home world).  They played with the forbidden love, will they, won't they, angle between the Duchess and Obi Wan in the Clone Wars series.  I don't know if the Clone Wars series is cannon for the new movies, but after hearing the theory that Rey could be Obi Wan's kid, the Duchess was the first person who cam to mind.

Clone Wars and Rebels are both canon. And, yes, at one point Obi-Wan considered leaving the Jedi Order to be with the Duchess Of Mandalore (not the homeworld of Boba Fett. Boba Fett's homeworld was technically Kamino where he was cloned. And although Jango Fett wore Mandalorean armor, he was not from Mandalore either) but she talked him out of it. And then later on she got murdered in front of him by Maul, the man who was literally too angry to die.

Brian
Brian MegaDork
12/19/17 11:49 a.m.

In reply to NickD :

The original 2003-05 Clone Wars was cannon, bridging II and III. The later SW:TCW, while a continuation of the earlier series, contradicts Ep III and fell under then EU. Rebels on it's launch was the video premier of Legends, a rebranding of the former EU. 

yupididit
yupididit SuperDork
12/19/17 4:49 p.m.

In reply to bigdaddylee82 :

Yeah that daughter would've been over 60 years old if he had a kid with her. But he didn't.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/19/17 5:54 p.m.
Appleseed said:

In reply to ncjay :

Just because you kill Hitler, doesn't mean there aren't a load of fanatics who still believe. Oh, the Emperor and Vader are dead? OK, I'll take off this goofy suit and go home now.

Another way of thinking about it is that the original story is less like World War 2 / Hitler and more like World War 1... where the political structure created after that conflict wasn't robust enough... thus leading to Empire 2.0 / World War 2... which we might be seeing in these follow-on movies... timing seems similar

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
12/20/17 12:50 a.m.

That's a better way to put it.

Jerry
Jerry UberDork
12/20/17 6:59 a.m.

I knew Snoke (not Snope or Snape) was going to be a normal sized dude, hell I thought he might actually be about 2ft tall #compensating.

Rey's parents?  I saw the reflection in the mirror and was like "chosen one ala Anakin?"  Also, doesn't mean he was telling the truth...

The random kids?  That's Luke saying the war has just begun, and I think we see a new generation picking up the good fight.  (Not necessarily related to anyone.)

Bombs?  Come on guys, if they can do all of these other amazing space ship things and use magic, you really think they can't make a bomb fall onto a target?  Guidance system, magnetic, something?  They used bombs in Empire (the asteroid scene) and I don't remember complaints.  Then again we didn't have the internet to complain on.

I was hoping for more from Phasma but she could come back as others mentioned, and was really hoping for more of Snoke's background story.  I'm watching easter egg videos before I see it again next week...

wae
wae Dork
12/20/17 7:22 a.m.

When Leia was floating out into space, my first thought was that it was a nice way to close out the character.  When they kept showing her, I thought it was nice that they were giving some sort of Carrie Fisher tribute thing or whatever, but it was starting to go on a bit long.  When she started twitching and zoomed back in to the ship, all I saw was Fonzie on his motorcycle.

Something a lot of campy movies do that I'm never a big fan of is that the epic final battle between the protagonist and antagonist just doesn't ever stop.  Bad guy nearly bests the good guy, but then he falls off a building and we think everything's good.  Then the bad guy climbs over the wall and the fight starts again with the good guy nearly being beaten until the bad guy gets shot and he lies in a pool of his own blood.  Good guy starts to make witty retort and stagger off with the girl and then the bad guy turns over and levels his gun, firing a shot at the good guy.  And then....  And it just goes on and on and on like that.  They did a little too much of that kind of thing as well -- big epic important battle and character that we know and love is lost to secure the good guys' victory.  And then right back to the next epic battle because it's not over yet!  I find it hard to describe, but I guess it was like the climax of the story wasn't well built-up on an even ramp.  Instead, they decided to ratchet the whole thing to 11 right out of the gate and hold it there so that with each battle won, the audience couldn't exhale yet.  It makes for a disjointed narrative.  The whole Luke-from-afar stalling tactic was somewhat strained as well -- a little deus ex machina device contrived to give our heroes an escape.

For me, it boils down to a really great story that was told really poorly.  Luke was always a whiner, so the whole thing with not wanting to do any more Jedification of people is in line with his character, I think.  Rey was the pushy young-Luke again who was full of piss and vinegar and ready to take on the world but she showed the growth of everything that happened in the last movie.  Chewy should have just eaten his dinner, but really that's not the kind of Wookie he is.  Poe is a tip-of-the-spear guy who wants to charge in and blow stuff up, which is perfect.  And of course Finn is still terrified of the First Order and trying to balance his fear against his bravery.  The characters were good and well played, I thought, but the storyboard needed an editor.

NickD
NickD UltraDork
12/20/17 7:49 a.m.

I stil don't get why if Luke wanted to be left alone, then why did he leave a detailed map of where he was going? He didn't take R2D2 with him, so he had to have planned his route and made a map and left a section with R2D2 before he left. Why? The biggest thing I can chalk it up to is 2 different directors.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito PowerDork
12/20/17 8:16 a.m.

Saw it Monday night. Going in, I had very low expectations, since there are a lot of people crapping on it out there. To my surprise, I really liked it! Some background: Even though I consider myself more of a Star Trek nerd, I have been a Star Wars fan for a long time, and was indoctrinated very early in life with the original trilogy. I thought the prequels, save for a few moments, were total garbage. The Force Awakens and Rogue One were fantastic. 

Some thoughts: 

-A "your mom" joke less than 5 minutes into the movie?  While I thought it was fine and laughed, but I also see it as the "let's destroy the alien enemies by blaring the Beastie Boys" moment of the franchise. 

-I didn't mind the middle part with the Casino planet that a lot of people are up in arms about, as it sets up the ending and did provide a narrative for the future. The double cross with Del Toro's stuttering guy was annoying, however, the moment on the stolen ship where he showed Finn and Rose that these rich arms dealers are out there to benefit solely for themselves could be important. This may help the rebels recruit down the road. 

-I really thought Leia was going to die after she was jettisoned into space. That would have been a sad, yet necessary, sendoff, and should have been the way to do it.

-RIP Admiral Ackbar, you'll always be in my heart... and in my car in action figure form, for that matter, warning me where the (speed) traps are.  laugh 

-Most surprising character of the movie for me was Ben/Kylo. He is still raw, and is heavily conflicted. It will be interesting to see where they go with him. 

-The fact that they just crapped on so many of the plot points people were obsessing over (Rey's parents, Luke's light saber, Snoke, etc) made me laugh. I could sense a great disturbance in the force with all the neckbeards losing their minds. laugh 

-Luke milked a goddamn sea cow/walrus/Snuffleupagus thing, guzzled the weird blue milk straight up, and took off on Rey in the most bizarre, ridiculous, and amazing scene in the entire Star Wars franchise. What the actual berk... 



-The rebel fleet trying to escape Snoke's giant delta wing Star Destroyer was straight out of 2005 reboot Battlestar Galactica, with the capital ship playing the Galactica (obviously). They were even able to track them every time they jumped to light speed, just like the Season 1 episode where they had to jump every 30 seconds because the Cylons could track them. Funny that the series that inspired BSG is now borrowing from BSG.

-Vice Admiral Holdo cutting Snoke's ship in half... surprise That scene is the one that's really sticking with me. Well done. BRUTAL. 

-Rey and Ben/Kylo are totally gonna do it in the next one. 

-The "death" of Luke... The way I see it, he's just left his corporeal form but will still be there in the future. He basically leveled up enough that he changed jobs (a la Final Fantasy) and has new powers. He'll still be around to help Rey and the new force users that we are sure to see in the next film. Maybe others will be too. Seems like Luke has more powerful abilities doing this than others did, as evidenced by his projection onto the salt planet. We will definitely be seeing more of him. 

-One curious thing: force ghosts previously (that we have seen) couldn't manifest themselves physically, until Yoda bopped Luke on the face with his staff. WAT

-They never talked about the ships having fuel before, but it's plausible. Doesn't anger me. 

We all knew when Disney decided to make a new trilogy which abandoned much of what happened in the books (like the Thrawn trilogy), it would piss some people off. While that is unfortunate, Star Wars has always been something marketed toward the masses. Star Wars is supposed to be fun, and that's exactly what we got with The Last Jedi. It's straight-up fun, and opens the narrative to go in a new direction. I dig it.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
12/20/17 8:51 a.m.
Tony Sestito said:

-The "death" of Luke... The way I see it, he's just left his corporeal form but will still be there in the future. He basically leveled up enough that he changed jobs (a la Final Fantasy) and has new powers. He'll still be around to help Rey and the new force users that we are sure to see in the next film. Maybe others will be too. Seems like Luke has more powerful abilities doing this than others did, as evidenced by his projection onto the salt planet. We will definitely be seeing more of him. 

Yep he's gonna be around as a Force Ghost I'm sure. I was just waiting for him to say "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

RevRico
RevRico UltraDork
12/20/17 9:10 a.m.

Ok, so I have a question, and this seems the more appropriate thread. 

Many many years ago, when the internet was still making funny noises to connect and tying up phone lines, there were rumors and even scripts flying around that Lucas had written 9 star wars movies as 3 different trilogy. (Ostensibly Lucas was hosting them on his website)

The way I understand things, the prequel was pretty close to those scripts. How is the "modern" or "ending" trilogy matching with that stuff since Disney bought it? Is it even tying into any of those original scripts/stories? (No I never actually sat down and read them, but I did have them all as text files at one point, at least I had massive text files titled as episode 7,8,9)

I'm just curious is all. 

I will eventually see this movie, I'm not concerned about spoilers, I just never see those stories/rumors referenced anymore, and I'm kind of afraid to ask on a star wars forum. 

 

Brian
Brian MegaDork
12/20/17 9:37 a.m.

In reply to RevRico :

There are multiple sets of pre-disney 7-9 trilogy story lines. The original pre Jedi was Luke looking for his lost sister, before they decided to take a shortcut and make it Leah in Jedi.

The other i know of was circa 05 and hosted by Shadow something. He claimed to work for Lucas, along with some other clearly bull E36 M3 claims. That trilogy followed the second generation of Solos and Skywalker. The only details i recall is Luke's missing hand being possessed by the bad guys and that there is no semblance to the movies we are getting. 

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito PowerDork
12/20/17 9:44 a.m.

A lot of the sequel trilogy rumors were based upon the Thrawn trilogy, which were books that focused on the kids of Leia and Han Solo and fighting the remnants of the Empire, headed up by Admiral Thrawn. Although they borrowed ideas from these books for the Disney sequels, many fans were disappointed when they deviated from this path. 

NickD
NickD UltraDork
12/20/17 10:08 a.m.
Tony Sestito said:

A lot of the sequel trilogy rumors were based upon the Thrawn trilogy, which were books that focused on the kids of Leia and Han Solo and fighting the remnants of the Empire, headed up by Admiral Thrawn. Although they borrowed ideas from these books for the Disney sequels, many fans were disappointed when they deviated from this path. 

Leia hadn't had kids yet in the Thrawn trilogy. I think she was pregnant throughout them, but the kids didn't factor in until later. Still, they were a great series of books, and I would not at all have been mad if they had become 7-9

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/20/17 12:17 p.m.

So, with superlight travel, incredible technology, ubiquitous robotics, etc...

* Nobody's invented autopilot / cruise control yet?

* It has to be one of your highest ranking officers who stays behind? TWICE?

* You can't drop bombs by tapping a touchscreen from the pilot's chair?  SERIOUSLY, somebody has to physically go into the open bomb bay and push an industrial garage door opener to drop the payload?

* You build titanic dreadnoughts that have titanic firepower, but no light / fast / close range weapons at all?  What are the other 27,000 people aboard doing?

* You have a giant armoured space cannon that can blow open the gates of Mordor, err, I mean, the secret rebel base in one shot, but somebody can fly a lawnmower / mechanical bull straight down the beam path for like 90 seconds, and just be mildly uncomfortable, not vaporized into slag?

* You're a bad guy chasing the enemy fleet past a small nearby planet with a dreadnought of almost the same size, but you don't think to summarily blow the planet out of hand just on the off-chance that the good guys might be able to use it?

And those are just a few I thought of off the top of my buzzed head.

I gave it a resounding meh.  It was good enough to see with the family.  After 5 $1 Applebees Long Island Ice Teas, I guess it was entertaining.  But the Star Wars movies, for all their epicness, always stumble all over the simple "Why didn't Gandalf just have the eagles drop the ring into Mount Doom in the first place?" questions.  To the point where it seriously interferes with my ability to care about the story.

Stuff like the fact that the First Order comes second, after  the original bad guys, just adds to the poor understandability.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
12/20/17 5:37 p.m.

Answers:

1, 3. No, computer technology is weird in the Star Wars universe. They have artificially intelligent robots with emotions, and holographic displays, but their computer technology is otherwise at an '80s-home-computing level. See: WW2 in space.

2. Yeah they're not military geniuses. That's been covered now.

4. Their close-range weapons are their fighters, which they didn't deploy fast enough. The dreadnought is a specialized ship that mostly relies on others around it for defense, like an aircraft carrier - except instead of fighters it carries really big long-range guns.

5. The weapon was just charging up when Finn was flying into it.

6. The dreadnought can't blow up a planet. It's really not much more destructive than a present-day battleship judging by what it did to the first rebel base.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/20/17 5:53 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

4.  Even current day aircraft carriers have substantial on board AA capability, and WW2 vintage ones sure did. A support fleet is necessary as screening and a defense ring for the carrier, sure, but is not helpless. And a carrier - certainly one that size - should have constantly rotating air cover on patrol at all times when in combat.

6.  Then why was it so berking huge?  Literally miles across?  It’s not that heavily armed with big guns, apparently, it has almost no light caliber weaponry (or even tracking ability), and apparently doesn’t carry enough fighters to keep a couple dozen flying CAP at all times. So... what is the rest of that giant ship for?

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/20/17 8:21 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

Third clue: The kid sweeping the stable floor in Space Monaco at the end...  here's another kid who has force powers seemingly at random.

Wait, where did the kid demonstrate force powers?  I missed that bit. I just assumed he represented the start of a new generation of rebels. 

tomtomgt356
tomtomgt356 Reader
12/20/17 8:28 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

He used the force to grab the broom.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/20/17 10:10 p.m.
tomtomgt356 said:

In reply to Duke :

He used the force to grab the broom.

Ah, I missed that. I saw the Resistance ring, but not the telekinesis. 

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