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travellering
travellering HalfDork
12/30/17 4:06 p.m.

Hey, if you want to talk science problems with star wars, how about the fact that this was the first, and unfortunately, probably the only time they got the sound right for an explosion in space.....

ncjay
ncjay SuperDork
12/30/17 7:42 p.m.

Luke Skywalker and Princess/General Leia are brother and sister, that's been established. What isn't explained, mentioned, or even touched on at all is how Leia apparently has force abilities but it appears Luke or noone else has even bothered to train her how to use them. Not even a little bit.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
12/31/17 12:12 a.m.

Some people have natural talent, others become teachers...  cheeky

Jerry
Jerry UberDork
12/31/17 7:53 a.m.

Also maybe she just doesn't care?  Seems more interested in leading her people than fighting assorted villains around the galaxy.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
12/31/17 10:57 a.m.
ncjay said:

Luke Skywalker and Princess/General Leia are brother and sister, that's been established. What isn't explained, mentioned, or even touched on at all is how Leia apparently has force abilities but it appears Luke or noone else has even bothered to train her how to use them. Not even a little bit.

These little things don't bother me in and of themselves. Lots of time passed. Luke could have trained her in that time. Whatever.

What bugs me is, what was the point of her having these powers? It just felt like a lazy way to shock the audience and then take that emotional weight away, and then force in a new character that no one cares about (Admiral Purple Hair) and who ultimately doesn't do anything, rather than utilize existing characters.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/1/18 12:54 p.m.

HOLY E36 M3 guys, Ep7 was just on TV, and I noticed a MAJOR, MAJOR point that I've never heard anyone raise before. When Rey has a flashback to being abandoned on Jakku (just about dead center in the movie's play time), someone is holding her arm and faintly says "Quiet, girl!"

THAT'S THE VOICE OF SIMON PEGG'S CHARACTER, THE SKETCHY PAWN SHOP OWNER.

Evidence that Rey was *sold* was hiding in plain sight since the release of Ep7. Perhaps there were never really plans for Rey's parents to be anyone of significance.

Turns out I'm not the first to notice it, although the significance of it isn't obvious without seeing ep8:

http://www.businessinsider.com/star-wars-rey-vision-explained-2016-3

NickD
NickD UltraDork
1/3/18 11:59 a.m.

 

Much better.

jharry3
jharry3 Reader
1/3/18 12:20 p.m.

They blew the perfect opportunity to kill off Leia/Carrie Fisher and have  her turn in to a Force Ghost.    Disappointing.   

So the next movie is either CGI Carrie or Leia dies in between and we learn about it in the opening roll up script. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/3/18 12:32 p.m.
jharry3 said:

They blew the perfect opportunity to kill off Leia/Carrie Fisher and have  her turn in to a Force Ghost.    Disappointing.   

So the next movie is either CGI Carrie or Leia dies in between and we learn about it in the opening roll up script. 

It wouldn't have been that easy. First they'd have to cut out the worst scene in the movie (yay!) and re-film the few subsequent ones where she appears. Then they would've had to re-work the Space Monaco/Snoke's megaship invasion subplot to work around the fact that Leia wouldn't be coming back to clear things up with the Purple Haired Commander...which means re-filming more scenes...and then if they want to bring her back as a Force Ghost, they'd have to make a CGI-Resurrected Leia way to soon (which some would argue extends to "ever"), right after they said they wouldn't. So she'll most likely be killed off between movies.

barefootskater
barefootskater Reader
1/3/18 12:47 p.m.

I have no idea what disney was thinking when they decided to switch up the writer/director in the middle of a trilogy. Flaws and dislikes aside, there are bound to be many inconstancies and rough transitions between the films. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/3/18 5:23 p.m.

Just ran across this article:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/lovesick-cyborg/2018/01/03/the-last-jedi-revealed-the-dark-side-of-bb8/

Anyone else think it's not a big deal that a robot designed to be the co-pilot/engineer/mechanic of what is essentially *a fighter plane* killed some people like a cold-blooded Ewok?

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
1/3/18 8:31 p.m.
barefootskater said:

I have no idea what disney was thinking when they decided to switch up the writer/director in the middle of a trilogy. Flaws and dislikes aside, there are bound to be many inconstancies and rough transitions between the films. 

JJ Abrams costs more than Rian Johnson?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
1/9/18 4:04 p.m.

Has anything been leaked yet about IX? Honestly, I haven't looked. As it's the final, final stop in the story (right?) I almost picture a total Dark Knight Returns scenario--bring back everyone for one last appearance including, yes, Vader. Wrap it up, destroy almost everything/everyone, and leave us with just a glimmer that things will continue with an entirely new cast--maybe. And if that's the case, I see Rey teaching the next generation. 

Brian
Brian MegaDork
1/9/18 4:14 p.m.
Beer Baron said:
barefootskater said:

I have no idea what disney was thinking when they decided to switch up the writer/director in the middle of a trilogy. Flaws and dislikes aside, there are bound to be many inconstancies and rough transitions between the films. 

JJ Abrams costs more than Rian Johnson?

JJ is only coming back for IX because Colin Trevaro(sp?) backed out. JJ was only supposed to launch the new series. 

NickD
NickD UltraDork
1/9/18 4:49 p.m.

Went and saw it again on Saturday. Didn't care much for it the first time. Less of a fan the second time. The middle segment drags on for so long with nothing really happening.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/12/18 9:12 a.m.

Very interesting article I just read:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/12/16834684/the-last-jedi-lost-its-nerve

I do wonder what will happen to Poe in Ep9. He's basically become a classy and polite Zapp Brannigan at this point, except Star Wars isn't a comedy so laying waste to your own forces with boneheaded mistakes isn't funny. He's proven himself to be incredibly dangerous to the rebellion and the only reason we don't see him as an outright villain is that he isn't a jerk about it. If Poe is still allowed to fight alongside the Rebellion in Ep9, the rebels can't complain if the First Order finishes them off.

There are basically 4 things that could be done with Poe in Ep9: Make him an outcast, make him a villain, have him redeem himself through some incredible heroism, or let him take the credibility of the storyline down in flames by just carrying on with business as usual - which isn't too different from the option before it.

D2W
D2W HalfDork
1/12/18 10:52 a.m.

I think Poe is destined to become the new leader of the resistance. Who magically, and in a very short time will leave behind his impetus nature and become the calm, cool leader the resistance needs. I think that his whole story line in TLJ is leading to this. He is starting to have this revelation during the movie. What doesn't make sense is if Leia and Holdo hold him in such high regard, why do they not tell him anything about the plan they have? What would it hurt if one more person knew what they were up too. Frankly the whole scene makes no sense. Let's make it appear to even our own people that we are running for our lives with no hope of escaping, waiting for the inevitable.

scardeal
scardeal SuperDork
1/12/18 11:02 a.m.

So, I'd seen it and read probably a dozen articles analyzing it.  I've got lots of thoughts about it, but here's a summary:

1. Luke - I thought even the "momentary lapse" of him attempting to kill Kylo/Ben seemed completely out of character.  The rest seems defensible.

2. There are at least 3 or 4 moments where there's something said or happens that was so jarringly out of place as to pull me out of the narrative and remind me that I'm watching a movie, not witnessing a story.  Leia's Mary Poppins scene, the milk scene, the heavy handed humor, for example.

3. It feels almost like a parody.  The sense of irony and iconoclasm is just hard to deal with.  It often gave me the sense that its entire goal was to rip apart what has come before.  (This had its genesis in VII, too)  Kylo is an emo Vader wannabe (he's practically Dark Helmet).  The big question "Who is Rey, really?" is "answered" by saying she's a nobody.  The slow rundown of the Rebel fleet has the drama of Spaceballs' opening of the ridiculously long ship.  The use of "laser sword" and "master codebreaker".  The blue milk.   The Jedi are NOT our only hope.  In fact, it's essentially hearkening back to the skepticism of Han Solo, Admiral Motti and Admiral Tarkin from Episode IV.

The desperate actions of a heroic few are beaten brutally as blundering idiocy.  Of course, there was a plan, but those in charge couldn't be bothered to tell anyone what it actually is!  The entire subplot of the casino would have been avoided if either Poe would have been an unthinking obedient soldier or if Holdo would have just gotten off her high horse and told him what the plan was.  Was satisfying HER desire to teach Poe some sort of lesson in obedience worth all those lives?  Didn't the people's whose lives were in the balance deserve to know that she had something up her sleeve besides just running?  This is in stark contrast to the original trilogy where individual contributions were rewarded.

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
1/12/18 1:07 p.m.
D2W said:

I think Poe is destined to become the new leader of the resistance. Who magically, and in a very short time will leave behind his impetus nature and become the calm, cool leader the resistance needs. I think that his whole story line in TLJ is leading to this. He is starting to have this revelation during the movie. 

I'd say, in movie terms, he wasn't starting to have the revelation...He did have it.  He was starting to have it when the escape plan was revealed to him, his "ah-ha!" moment was when purple hair does her Kamikaze, and his first exhibiting his newfound tempered demeanor and leadership is when Finn wants them to go help (imaginary) Luke face Kylo Ren and understands it's a diversion to allow their escape.  Leia even already acknowledged this revelation and symbolically handed over the reins when she told the Rebels, "What are you looking at me for?  Follow him."

D2W
D2W HalfDork
1/12/18 1:53 p.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

Yes you are probably right, and in the next one we will get the leader the resistance needs in Poe without the actual real time it would take to become that leader. Kind of like how Luke magically became a powerful Jedi between Empire and RotJ.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
1/12/18 3:57 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

Very interesting article I just read:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/12/16834684/the-last-jedi-lost-its-nerve

This is actually why, as a Star Wars fan, I think the movie is weak. I may disagree with a few minor point in this article (I don't think the author actually understands what a "tragedy" is), but agree with the thesis. The Last Jedi flirts with some potentially interesting themes, but doesn't actually dive in enough to explore them. This is where I really disagree with the article's conclusion. I think this failure to actually explore its themes makes it one of the weakest, not one of the strongest. The article even says, "Lots of bad things happen... but there's no emotional impact." Yeah... that's actually the problem fans have.

I do wonder what will happen to Poe in Ep9. He's basically become a classy and polite Zapp Brannigan at this point, except Star Wars isn't a comedy so laying waste to your own forces with boneheaded mistakes isn't funny. He's proven himself to be incredibly dangerous to the rebellion and the only reason we don't see him as an outright villain is that he isn't a jerk about it. If Poe is still allowed to fight alongside the Rebellion in Ep9, the rebels can't complain if the First Order finishes them off.

Poe saved the Rebellion. If the dreadnought had not been destroyed, the entire fleet would have been lost. The fleet barely survived because they were able to stay *just* out of reach of the First Order's star destroyers. As soon as a ship lost fuel... they went down in about 2 minutes. The dreadnought had massively greater firing range and the power to take out a ship. If it had not been destroyed, it would have wiped out the entire fleet during the world's slowest chase.

"Poe Did Nothing Wrong"

I still think it was a weak plan that was right by dumb luck, and the whole rebellion seems to be completely incompetent. They didn't lose the bomber and fighter wings to a bad plan, they lost it to a disastrous combat formation that as soon as one bomber was destroyed, it toppled the rest like dominoes. I think the only reason the First Order hasn't been able to wipe them out is roughly equal incompetence. I mean... their leader gets trolled by prank calls.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
1/12/18 4:11 p.m.
scardeal said:

The desperate actions of a heroic few are beaten brutally as blundering idiocy.  Of course, there was a plan, but those in charge couldn't be bothered to tell anyone what it actually is!  The entire subplot of the casino would have been avoided if either Poe would have been an unthinking obedient soldier or if Holdo would have just gotten off her high horse and told him what the plan was.  Was satisfying HER desire to teach Poe some sort of lesson in obedience worth all those lives?  Didn't the people's whose lives were in the balance deserve to know that she had something up her sleeve besides just running?  This is in stark contrast to the original trilogy where individual contributions were rewarded.

I've tried to figure out what Poe's role is in the rebellion. Every indication is that he was the officer primarily in charge of fighter defense of the fleet. Even after he was "demoted", we don't see anyone else promoted to fill that role, he's still high enough rank to do it, and he continues to fill the role in the last stand at the base.

That's an officer that maybe the top brass wouldn't consult when developing the escape plan, but who you would expect to inform what the plan is. That's like the president not sharing his schedule with his chief bodyguard.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/12/18 6:18 p.m.
Beer Baron said:

Poe saved the Rebellion. If the dreadnought had not been destroyed, the entire fleet would have been lost. The fleet barely survived because they were able to stay *just* out of reach of the First Order's star destroyers. As soon as a ship lost fuel... they went down in about 2 minutes. The dreadnought had massively greater firing range and the power to take out a ship. If it had not been destroyed, it would have wiped out the entire fleet during the world's slowest chase.

"Poe Did Nothing Wrong"

That guy's right that, logically, the Dreadnought should've been considered a threat to the fleet. But for magical plot-holey reasons, it was only considered a threat to the ground base. Whether you want to assume the fleet really had nothing to fear from the Dreadnought makes all the difference in the world to whether Poe made a decent decision to attack it against orders. I'm inclined to give the fantasy sci-fi movie the benefit of the doubt here though. Otherwise it makes Leia out to be more dangerously incompetent than Poe or the purple-haired admiral by ignoring an immediate existential threat to the entire rebellion. (Edit: Also I don't remember Poe saying anything along the lines of "If I don't blow this thing up it'll kill you all in a couple minutes" when arguing for the attack before or afterward. His argument was basically that it was a high-value target)

The purple-haired admiral does deserve much of the blame for Poe launching the plan to invade Snoke's ship. Poe was left to choose between blindly trusting her with everyone's lives, and launching a crazy scheme against orders if he couldn't, just because of her refusal to communicate. Poe would look more wrong on paper, but the purple-haired admiral deserves just as much blame.

Edit2: Thought of a plausible reason why the dreadnought wasn't considered a threat to the fleet. Projectile speed and the speed of aiming the apartment-tower-sized cannons.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
1/13/18 8:23 a.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I completely hear all of your critiques and agree. The threat level or lack of threat of the dreadnought should have been established. That's a major problem.

I only say the movie once, so there are a few details I'm hazy on. I believe Poe said something like, "That thing's a fleet killer!"

He didn't realize they were about to be in a chase where that thing would pose an immediate threat. But seemed like he implied that if a fleet got into a pitched battle, he knew that ship could wipe them out.

I also forget if Poe actually defies a direct order launching the big attack or not. Did Leia order to just completely call off the attack? Or did she just order not to do it because there was still one defense turret up, and Poe refused to turn back because he knew he could get his blasters back on line and take it out? If she ordered not to launch the attack at all, why did the entirety of the fighter and bomber wings follow Poe's orders and not Leia's?
And it wasn't just Poe who didn't trust Admiral Purple-Hair. Something like half of the ship's crew including most of the bridge officers followed him in the mutiny. That's the sign of an officer who no one trusts.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
1/13/18 9:20 a.m.

After stewing on this for multiple weeks, nay a month now, i have some observations.

 

1- Rian Johnson should go away forever

2- they should do a men in black style brain wiping on all of us to 12/13/17

3- they should then have JJ remake the movie in his vision, albeit with a CGI Carrie 

4- purple hair admiral holdo is a smokeshow.  This upsets me greatly, as my sister in law is a cousin of hers(yes she’s a Derp, I mean Dern).  This is bad because one is hot and the other is just my sister in law.  I really wish she looked like Laura.  

5- I really hope IX wipes the memory of TLJ from my memory banks.

6- I really like Porgs now.  I feared based on the trailer that Porg would be the new JarJar, but was used just enough to be properly funny and not “here’s this creature, it takes over the whole movie, yousa buysa lotsa merchandise”

7- i was kinda meh and couldn’t decide good or bad before.  Now i’m ready to say, It’s a bad movie.

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