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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Sprockets: I ended up buying a Nighthawk 450

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Dec. 28, 2008 11:09 p.m. RussellH Reader

As you might remember I was looking for a smaller dual sport for my first bike here:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/sprockets-whats-the-mi...

But after taking the MSF class I decided to ditch the idea of a dual-sport because I think I could learn to ride in the parking lots and then slowly get it out on the streets. I was looking all over for a standard/naked type of a bike but looks like they're in high demand out here in SoCal. A ratty old 1988 250cc Eliminator was $900 (bottom line price) and needed tires, fork was leaking oil, blinkers weren't working etc. I also decided that I should avoid the 250cc if I could help it and get a 500cc so I don't outgrow it in a few months.

Luckily I found this 1982 Nighthawk 450cc which appears to be well taken care of. The guy I bought it from had it for a 3 months, he bought it from the original owner and gave me his contact info too. He said last month the speedo stopped working. The bike has over 20k miles on it which I thought was high after-all it's not like a car but then it's a Honda so we'll see. I have no idea what this bike is about, I think it's air cooled, two cylinders, anyone know MPG the tank appears to be just 3gal or so. Oh and where can I find used parts for it online, other than ebay.

I'll post pics tomorrow if there's any interest.
Dec. 28, 2008 11:53 p.m. wherethefmi2000 Reader

You'll get 50+ mpg i'd get the carbs synced and check the plugs and do a good all around maintnance job on it and you should be good to roll. I'd also find out when the last time the valves were checked/adjusted.
Dec. 29, 2008 12:17 a.m. skierd Dork

Very cool! I actually went the opposite route of you. At first I wanted a simple 80's UJM with the nighthawk high on my list, but ended up more interested in a dual purpose bike and getting my DRZ.

Make a cafe racer out of it!
Dec. 29, 2008 6:47 a.m. Woody Dork

Check under the seat. You may find the owner's manual and a tool kit there. Honda owner's manuals have a lot of info in them.
Dec. 29, 2008 7:44 a.m. Xceler8x HalfDork

Tough bike there. Prev poster is correct. 50+ mpg. If you need tires...get some good ones. They'll up the fun quotient a bit.
Dec. 29, 2008 10:05 a.m. RussellH Reader

Cool, thanks for the tips. I was wondering where to find a manual for it, I didn't even think to look under the seat...first bike

Where can I find the DIY info on these bikes. I maintain all the cars in our fleet and would like to learn to work on bikes too. In fact, that was one of the reasons for getting an older bike. I want to replace all the fluids i.e engine and transmission oil (anything else?). The guy said it has new plugs, not sure about the air filter. No idea how to synchronize the carbs, adjust and lube the chain chassis etc. I was thinking of picking up a Clymer's manual. Would it be better to have a real mechanic look over the bike and adjust/fix some important things the first time? I have no clue who to take the bike to around here, I haven't been to a repair shop in over 6 years.
Dec. 29, 2008 10:20 a.m. RussellH Reader

skierd, congrats on the DRZ! those are cool bikes. Maybe I'll get one in the future.
Dec. 29, 2008 10:56 a.m. Mental UltraDork

Good looking hawk. Bullet-proof simple bike. I would be stunned if there isn't some Nighthawk board or at least an old Honda board. I have Clymer's for most of my bikes and like them.

The only fluid you really have is oil.

I did find this real quick http://hondanighthawks.net/450.htm
Dec. 29, 2008 11:20 a.m. Josh Reader

http://www.nighthawk-forums.com/ is the place to be, post up a thread about your find and I'm sure you can get any questions you have asked. I'm JWBrockman on there, I don't post that much, but I have a sweet thread in the projects section about the '85 650 I restored/modded this summer :).

Get the clymer manual. Unlike cars, third party bike service manuals can be pretty good. Plus if you are used to working on cars, working on bikes will be ridiculously easy.
Dec. 29, 2008 2:08 p.m. Xceler8x HalfDork

I agree with Josh. Everything is right there. It's smaller and sometimes more complicated but the parts are straight in your face.

Also, only oil. The trans and motor use the same oil reservoir. The sump. Lubing a chain is pretty easy. Changing plugs, ditto.
Dec. 29, 2008 3:00 p.m. L8BRAKER New Reader

I picked up an '84 Nighthawk 450 in Spring of '07 with about 28k miles on it. After everything (taxes, plate, safety, etc.) I had $970 in it ready to ride. Throughout that summer I put about 4k miles on it and didn't have a single issue. Other than tightening the chain (which should have been replaced) and adding oil it asked nothing of me. I used it for as a highway commuter mostly but also managed a weekend trip up north and more than a few trips down "closed roads" (see, you DID buy a dual purpose bike!). I sold it this Spring for $1000 so really all it cost me was gas and insurance...tough to beat! Enjoy it. Mark
Dec. 29, 2008 3:03 p.m. RussellH Reader

Thanks guys.

Josh, I registered and posted under General Discussion. I really like how this guys painted the engine black. I'd love to do that to mine. Makes it look so much nicer, cleaner and modern. Any tips?

http://nighthawk-forums.com/index.php/topic,539.0.html

Can you post a link to your thread? edit: nevermind - found it!

Can't wait to get home to pop the seat and (hopefully) get the manual to read for a bed-time book tonight
Dec. 29, 2008 3:37 p.m. Bobzilla Reader

I too just signed up. Nice to know. . funny I never ran across it before!
Dec. 29, 2008 4:21 p.m. wherethefmi2000 Reader

RussellH wrote:

Thanks guys.

Josh, I registered and posted under General Discussion. I really like how this guys painted the engine black. I'd love to do that to mine. Makes it look so much nicer, cleaner and modern. Any tips?

http://nighthawk-forums.com/index.php/topic,539.0.html

Can you post a link to your thread? edit: nevermind - found it!

Can't wait to get home to pop the seat and (hopefully) get the manual to read for a bed-time book tonight

All the body work should come off pretty easy, and the tank should be a few bolts holding it to the frame. Just make sure to drain the tank before removal( well for painting that's whatI'd do) if the fuel petcock is attached to the tank that makes tank removal that much easier.
Dec. 29, 2008 5:05 p.m. Woody Dork

You will be surprised at how much info is in that owner's manual, and, if you're lucky, you'll have all the tools you'll need right there under the seat.
Dec. 29, 2008 6:13 p.m. therex SuperDork

My bike is exactly like that.

Only it was in worse shape when I got it.

The sad thing about the 450's is that they were sort of the redheaded stepchild of the Nighthawk line. The carbs are goofy and expensive to replace...don't break them. The 1982 is a unique year. Many 83+ parts do not fit. Off the top of my head, the speedo cable is different, as well as the electrical plugs.

I have the FSM, I'll happily Xerox the appropriate pages if there is a project you'd like to do. If you're going to jet and sync your carbs, get rid of that god awful airbox and get a pair of pods. You will gain exactly zero horsepower, but it'll be easier to work on.
Dec. 29, 2008 8:22 p.m. RussellH Reader

Some updates since I got home. After tinkering with the seat I finally figured out the two latches and the third hand you need to pop the seat up...luckily I have big hands so the thumbs push the seat up while I'm holding the latches. Awkward position to be in...when the garage door's open and the neighbors can see you.

So I popped the seat and what do I see? NOTHING!!! no tools, no manual - just a tire-gauge in the little plastic glove box

therex, I appreciate the offer. I took the bike out for a spin today just up and down my street for the first time. I heard chain clanking everytime I changed gears. Pulled into the garage and noticed the chain is sagging and resting on the double/center stand. It probably needs replacing or tightening to say the least. I have no clue how to tighten it though, is there a section in the manual for that, do you have a way to scan it into a PDF?

Man, bummer that it's parts are hard to come by and that it's unique. I don't like that at all, I like the comfort of knowing that if I goof up parts and help is just a credit-card number away.
Dec. 29, 2008 8:57 p.m. therex SuperDork

RussellH wrote: I have no clue how to tighten it though, is there a section in the manual for that, do you have a way to scan it into a PDF?

Man, bummer that it's parts are hard to come by and that it's unique. I don't like that at all, I like the comfort of knowing that if I goof up parts and help is just a credit-card number away.

Most parts you'll need are only as hard to come by as your local honda dealership, just make SURE you get it for an '82, or you'll be returning 'em.

The chain is easy though.

Loosen the rear axle nut. Loosen the lock nuts on both adjusting bolts (at the ends of the swingarm, look, you'll see 'em). Turn both adjusting bolts an equal number of turns until the correct drive chain slack is reached. (15-25mm / 5/8-1 in, as measured on the center stand between the sprockets on the lower chain) Tighten the rear axle nut to the specified torque. (51-72 ft-lbs.)

If that isn't enough, I'll copy the pages into PDF for you. :)

Anything else you need, just let me know.
Dec. 29, 2008 9:09 p.m. pinchvalve UltraDork

I have a 1980 Honda CX500 which shares many components with the Nighthawk including the Comstar wheels. Maintenance on an early 80's Honda involves oil changes and charging the battery after it sits for the winter. That's it. Mine had way more miles than that on it when I got it, and I have added another 20,000+ miles since.
Dec. 30, 2008 12:08 a.m. RussellH Reader

therex, man you have no idea how much your post helped. I just got done tightening it up but unfortunately looks like the chain needs to be replaced. See the pic. This is after tightening it just enough that it now has about 1" slack. It was almost at the far black line on the sticker before I started.

So what do I need to know about chains before I order one and from where? how much will it run and what's involved in replacing it? Oh and how do I know that the previous owner didn't change the sprockets?

Also, is the battery 12v, it looks like it's dying since I was riding a low rpms and I hear these bikes only charge at 3k and above.

Lastly, where're the fuses on this bike? Now my tail light's not working, the brake lights work but not the tail light. I so wish I had the owner's manual. I went to Barnes and Nobel and bought two generic bike maintenance books since they didn't have Clymers. One's called Motorcycle Owner's Manual and the other's The essential guide to Motorcycle maintenance.

pinchvalve, thanks for the tip - where do you buy parts for your bike?

Here's a better pic of the bike:
Dec. 30, 2008 9:19 a.m. Woody Dork

Fuses are probably behind the right side cover with the Nighthawk emblem on it. Remove it carefully, from the bottom first. It should just pull straight off.
Dec. 30, 2008 10:20 a.m. Toolpen New Reader

The chain is excessively worn because the front line on the "Replace Chain label" is positioned past the rear of the swing arm. Also, make sure to install new sprockets when replacing the chain. Because chains wear unevenly, always check and adjust a chain at its tightest point. And Clymer does have a repair manual for this bike--part No. M334.

I would also check the condition of the cables and replace them if they looked frayed or damaged.
Dec. 30, 2008 10:34 a.m. RussellH Reader

Thanks Woody and Toolpen.

On the chains, is removing a link an option to make the chain smaller? I didn't see a circlip type of connector link on mine. If not, what type of chain do I need to get? Apparently there're o-rings, 520s etc then I did read that usually the sprockets might need to be changed at the same time but do they have to be?
Dec. 30, 2008 10:35 a.m. Mental UltraDork

You can drop $178 on a super sexy racing chain. But if you do, you're kinda silly. A good chain should run about $25, the sprockets will be about $25 to $30 per.

It is a good idea to replace them all at the same time. It's not a must, but sprockects wear to the chain and not replacing them will hasten the demise of your new chain. If they are bad enough the new chain will slip as well (Think slipping clutch with a clucnky noise).

There are different schools of though on the urgency of this. I had a chain break on me in the middle of a ride, it simply came off the front sprockect and laid out in a very straight line. But I have heard stories of them wrapping up in rear axels and locking the rear wheel. Not fun. I used to be in the push your luck crowd, but as you will find, the longer you ride, the less willing you are to do so.

In my younger days, on that same chain tossing bike, I also did not replace the spockets and rode around for a month with sprockets that looked like saw blades. Any hard acceleration would make it slip, and aggrevate the situation. I finally replaced them, after doing a nice number on my new chain.

So having been there, done that; If the chain is that stretched, I would replace it and the sprockets before venturing out of my neaighborhood. Think of it as a C-note insurance policy

The cluctch cable advice is solid as well, even if they don't need replacement, some well aimed CRC spray lubricant won't hurt.
Dec. 30, 2008 11:08 a.m. RussellH Reader

Thanks Mental. No I'm defintiely trying to do this the grassroots way. I think I already paid too much for the bike that's considered the redheaded step child of the Hawk series :( I paid $1400.

If I can get the chain for $25 I'd do that. I'll take a closer look at the sprockets and post some pics to see if they need replacing too.

So far the shopping list looks like: - chain - maybe sprockets - chain lube - chain brush - chain tool - cable lubricant - air filter - oil filter (I'm assuming this is behind the left or right engine cover?) - Clymers or Helm - tires (have some dry rot cracks)

Do I need to remove the cable from the clutch lever to lube it or should I use those long red plastic straws and spray the lube into it at an angle while it's attached to the lever?

It's funny that I find the guys here more knowledgeable about the bike than on the nighthawk forum. Thanks guys keep them coming I really appreciate all the help!!

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