I'm in need of a welder, both for fabrication and for chores around the house as well as to learn on. I'd prefer not to spend more the $300, with the recession and all going on.
Please offer me some suggestions? I'm not looking for a gas free one as well, as I'm told the flux cored wire is harder to weld with and can be dirtier. But I have no idea, lol.
Andrew
TIG - Get an old buzz box, a torch, and a gas bottle. Not perfect, but it will teach you to TIG.
depends on your true budget and how much you will use it. You could go for the breakable (peice of crap) HF for about $150. Or a better Miller or Lincoln system for $300-$500.
Fluxcore is not as bad as one might think. With skill it can look ok. I won't be the quality of Tig but... Benefits of fluxcore: -No bottles to fill -You can have a Mig that does Flux and Gas -You can weld anywhere and not worry about the shielding gas blowing off the weld pool -fast -Cheap -Easy to use -Many cheap welder options
I've spun several spools of wire through my $250 130A HF mig welder and have been fairly satisfied. Initially, binding was an issue through the feed tube within the main cable bundle. I solved this by removing the sheathing (through which the feed tube, main electrode wire, and control wires run) and, using elecrical tape, put a wrap about every two inches keeping the feed tube parallel with the main electrode wire. Doing so used the electrode wire as a spine to keep the feed tube "straight" and add a bit of rigidity to prevent kinking.
I have been using a Campbell Hausfeld MIG I picked up at Lowes for $280.00 10 years ago. It works fairly well. The Lincolns work much better though, Jensenman has one I have used before. Home Depot sells the little one for $350.00 or so, or you can get the next one up that will also do aluminum for about $600.00. I am fixing to replace mine in the next month or so. If I were you I would save my pennies and get the better machine.
I like tig a great deal for on bench fabrication work. Notice I said on bench. Outside of a shop situation, I and probably most other novices, cannot control tig in an appropriate manner. A mig is better if you need another hand to hold something, i.e. auto body work or field fabrication work.
I like milers, lincolns, century's and hobarts. Some companies make home depot special models that have crappy drive parts. Do your research, buy from a good welding supply store and you'll be OK. Try to find a welding shop that will set up units for you to try before you buy. They may even have cheap classes and other perks(like good used demo units).
The C-H will work but yes the Lincolns will be a lot easier to use mostly because the wire is 'dead' until you pull the trigger. It also has infinitely variable wire speed which really does help, particularly when skip welding thin sheet metal. I have cranked up the amperage and wire speed and beveled and welded stuff as thick as 3/8", to do this you need to be able to reach both sides of your weld. I have also fillet welded stuff that thick as well.
Mine is the older version of the Weld Pak 100, like this:
Right now they are $389.00 at Home Depot, you might be able to find one cheaper online but shipping might bump it back up.
My Lincoln can be converted to use shielding gas and weld aluminum with a $99 kit, a tank and the proper wire. Of course if you want to go back to ferrous you have to swap wires, a major PITA. I am tempted to buy another one of these Lincolns to use strictly for aluminum. That means between 2 welders, tanks etc I'd have less than a grand in the whole thing. The Pro Cut 25 plasma cutter cost about $1100.00 so for around $2k I could cut and weld 99% of the stuff I'd run across.
It would be nice to have one of the bigger 220V machines but I have a hard time justifying it when 99% of what I do is 1/4" or thinner. It would also be hard to justify a pair of dedicated 220V machines for ferrous and aluminum.
By the way, the spatter from a flux core can be vastly reduced by wrapping or clamping aluminum roof flashing near whatever you are welding. The stuff is cheap, flexible, reuseable and works well.
As mentioned, you can do TIG with an arc welder, a torch and a bottle of gas. I took a welding class a few years back and we did most of our TIG welding with that kind of setup; the instructor of the class is a certified welder at a nuclear power plant, and he said they do a lot of their TIG welding at the plant that way. You have to scratch start the arc, but with practice it will work pretty well.
Wire welders are easier to learn, Stick welders can be found CHEAP on Craigslist. not much to go wrong on them.
Stick welder's usually can weld thicker metal as well.
I've inherited my grandfathers old monkey wards unit. 280amps, AC-DC, AC, DC, inverted DC. cutting carbons, etc.
now I have to wire my garage for a couple 220 lines.
Tell me more about using a stick welder and a torch for tig?
I have both.
Grtechguy wrote:Tell me more about using a stick welder and a torch for tig?
I have both.
TIG torch, not gas torch.
Hok the TIG torch up where you normally hook up the stick holder. Run the gas line to the bottle / regulator. Turn on gas, turn on welder. Scratch start like you would a stick, but you're doing it with the Tungston. Create pool, add filler.
A benifit of the lousy economy is that you might find a decent used unit for cheap. Personnaly, I would suggest you watch for a 130 amp Lincoln or Miller. 110vac, nice quality, long life. I had a WeldPak a few years ago and was put off by the plastic internal componants. Especially after I dropped it and broke the drive wheel supports. JBWeld fixed it fine, but I didn't appreciate that amount of cheapness.
The lincolns sold at home depot are different then the ones sold at welding supply stores, main outside difference is that both amps and wire speed use reostats for infinate adjustment, but the guts are better quaility too.
I've found my Lincoln 110 unit to handle every job I've thrown at it the last 7 years I've owned it.
I have a second bottle of argon for doing aluminum, and I got the convertion kit for alumnium too. Only problem with the convertion kit is having to swap out the liner which ttakes a while.
For plasma cutters though, I have a 110 plasma cutter as well, and I often find that lacking, for a plasma you should always get the most powerful unit you can afford, preferabley a 220 machine, you won't be sorry you did.
Chris Rummel
I have a 110v Miller that I bought almost 20 years ago. I'm not a professional fabricator--my welder only gets used a few times a year (used to be more often). I've made custom headers, welded my trailer frame and fenders, fixed broken shock mounts, created tool stands and fixtures, made custom tools and all sorts of other things. A TIG would be nice, but it's overkill for most of what I do, and since I often weld "dirty" metal, a MIG is better. Also, a stick welder would blast through most of what I've welded (although they would weld metal thicker than my welder, but I've not needed that done very often).
My welder uses CO2, which is cheap and easily refillable.
A big project this coming summer will be to weld a roll cage in my Miata, which my welder won't do. So I'll tack it together with my welder and take it to a pro to finish the job. They will use a MIG (they're very good).
When I replace this welder, it will be with a 220v MIG. TIG welders gained popularity with the TV shows featuring crazy fabrication. Properly using a MIG welder can do almost as good. There's no use starting your racing career in F1 when Spec Miata will give you the experience you need.
Why won't your 110v Miller do a cage? I have a 110v Miller 140 and it has no issue whatsoever with single pass on 3/16" plate and .120 or .095 wall tubing.
Yeah, my Lincoln does 1.750 OD .134 wall and also 1.750 .095 wall quite well, good penetration etc. It might be a bit qucker with a 220v machine but no reason a 110 won't work.
walterj wrote:Why won't your 110v Miller do a cage? I have a 110v Miller 140 and it has no issue whatsoever with single pass on 3/16" plate and .120 or .095 wall tubing.
Actually, the welder would probably do the cage. The person doing the welding, not so well. My uncle has a fab shop/machine shop-he welds better than anyone I've ever seen--so he'd do a better job than me.
My 110v is one of the first available (it has the Auto Arc name, before Miller made hobby welders), and it's only 90 amp. It retailed for around $800, in 1989. I made $3.35 an hour.
Still, it's a great small welder, and it's been worth every penny I paid for it.
I agree, a good Miller, Hobart or Lincoln 110v MIG should do a modern cage with little problem.
Jensenman, instead of buying an entirely new MIG, why not just get a spool gun to run your aluminum?
I started with a Miller 175 MIG and a HyperTherm 380 plasma cutter for all my "mild" steel work. Later, when I started getting into doing work on aluminum intake manifolds, I added a Miller Spoolmate 3035 and the SGA-100 controller to hook it up to my "old" Miller 175. I've now added a Miller TIG for doing "detail" work.
Everything but my original Miller MIG was purchased off eBay or CraigsList at significantly lower prices than new.
Since I purchased my MIG from my local welding supply along with all my supplies, consumables and gas from them, I've developed a good relationship as a "regular" and they have no problems helping me out when I run into something that's more than I can handle or outside my experience. They are also an authorized service center for brands of all the equipment I have so they don't have any issues helping when I have a problem.
The only problem I've had in the last 5 years was with a bad gas regulator that came with my CraigsList TIG and they replaced it under warranty with no problems.
ww wrote:Jensenman, instead of buying an entirely new MIG, why not just get a spool gun to run your aluminum?
I was just looking at one - they are about $200 for my Miller and look to be of pretty good quality. A bottle of argon, and its ready to go in 10 minutes. I might pick one up for making nice light things like rad support and pedal mounts.
Wow, thanks for all the quick responses, I really appreciate the feedback. I'll have to really look online and off for a good deal on a miller or lincoln i guess, as they seem to be the ones to go for. I've been looking to goto a local tech school for welding classes, but each time they come around twice a year, I am usually busy with work and forget about it until after the classes are full. I'll have to make a point to go take some formal training, and wait until after I'm done them to better decide If I really need a welder and which model to buy.
Andrew
digdug18 wrote:I've been looking to goto a local tech school for welding classes, but each time they come around twice a year, I am usually busy with work and forget about it until after the classes are full. I'll have to make a point to go take some formal training, and wait until after I'm done them to better decide If I really need a welder and which model to buy.
Andrew
This is exactly how I got started - and I am glad that I did it. The teacher was the guy who did all the certification and testing here and really knew his stuff... and I got to practice for 54hrs without interruption from the wife/kids, with someone else telling what was good and wasn't... and supplying all the material. It only scratched the surface of what the pros know but it gave me enough to build a roll cage, make a workbench and actually believe I could make anything (if I just had a Bridgeport and a good lathe.... :) )
I can't say enough about local trade schools for learninig how to weld. No, no hot chickies, but lots of really good training, and normally the instructors enjoy working with grown ups without attitiudes. Usually quite inexpensive as well/
I have a HF 110V MIG. It does OK, but on 1/4" and up, I use stick, frequently after tacking it with the MIG. It is handy to put some flux core wire in when you need it. It was made in Italy, not China, where I think the current versions come from. When I got it, back about 1994 or so, it would only weld about 2" on high before thermal overloading. I added a salvaged muffin fan to it and never had another thermal cut-out. The only birdcage I ever had was when I moved it 500 miles without removing the 10 lb spool of 308.
While I think a 220V MIG would be beter around the shop (less line loss getting to the welder), the 110V has been handy over the years. There is always 110V available, but 220V can be challenging. So, when you're out welding on the trailer in the driveway or putting a staircase in a friend's house, that 110V is there. I strongly suspect I could rewire my MIG to use 220V, or maybe even rig up some type of switch. I may do that some day.
walterj wrote:ww wrote:Jensenman, instead of buying an entirely new MIG, why not just get a spool gun to run your aluminum?
I was just looking at one - they are about $200 for my Miller and look to be of pretty good quality. A bottle of argon, and its ready to go in 10 minutes. I might pick one up for making nice light things like rad support and pedal mounts.
That's a thought. I'll have to look into that. It would certainly be a lot cheaper than another dedicated welder and just as important take up a lot less room.
