OK, so far ...
1) Jesus didn't wear a tie
2) corporate servitude
We're on a roll here!
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Oct. 5, 2009 10:09 p.m. carguy123 Dork
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Oct. 5, 2009 10:45 p.m. autoxrs New Reader
What would Angus Young do?
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Oct. 5, 2009 10:47 p.m. erasmus229 New Reader
There's a reason I refer to my monkey suit as the married or buried gear but I like the clip-on route for this one. I don't think you're get any hard data outta this group, a little sympathy maybe. Have you visited the Unitarians? I'm sure the tie issue wouldn't come up. I personally am a tie-your-own-bowtie-like-a-real-man guy. Then you can tie all kinds of wonky and it still comes off classy!
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Oct. 5, 2009 11:00 p.m. Wally UberDork
I like a tie at church and other functions, although I'm often in the minority. i am also required to wear a tie with my winter uniform but it mys be a "breakaway" or clip on tie incase someone tries to choke me with it. It does happen, I've had mine ripped off twice. i also picked up a few of these since I still have trouble tying them sometimes.
The knot is always perfect and you control how tight it is by how hard you pull it shut.
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Oct. 5, 2009 11:05 p.m. Trans_Maro HalfDork
Here:
Formal attire problem solved.
It may or may not work for you depending on family history.
Shawn
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Oct. 5, 2009 11:11 p.m. nderwater Reader
speedblind wrote: And +1 on wearing jeans to church. I don't know of many churches where a tie would look normal, except maybe for the "silver" service. Some of those folks look like they're dressing up for their own funeral. ;)
Are you kidding? If you don't show enough respect to dress up for church, why go?
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Oct. 5, 2009 11:13 p.m. Wally UberDork
Can you grow a mullet?
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Oct. 5, 2009 11:31 p.m. EvanB Reader
nderwater wrote:
speedblind wrote: And +1 on wearing jeans to church. I don't know of many churches where a tie would look normal, except maybe for the "silver" service. Some of those folks look like they're dressing up for their own funeral. ;)
Are you kidding? If you don't show enough respect to dress up for church, why go?
If you think church is just about how you dress why go?
Edit: Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread, carry on.
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Oct. 6, 2009 12:13 a.m. carguy123 Dork
At the moment we are the only church in town that has the choir wear a tie. If you just look at the traditional service less than 20% of the people wear a tie.
If you look at the early morning alternative service less than 2% wear a tie.
If you look at the evening Family service where they come in shorts and flip flops I'd put that at a -50% wear a tie. I feel that shorts and flip flops out to count as a negative.
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Oct. 6, 2009 7:55 a.m. speedblind Reader
nderwater wrote:
speedblind wrote: And +1 on wearing jeans to church. I don't know of many churches where a tie would look normal, except maybe for the "silver" service. Some of those folks look like they're dressing up for their own funeral. ;)
Are you kidding? If you don't show enough respect to dress up for church, why go?
If the pastor's in jeans, for example. Not all churches are overly concerned with the clothes you have on.
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Oct. 6, 2009 8:01 a.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork
I don't particularly like wearing a suit. OTOH, I look like a badass in a suit, so I can live with it. The wife always gets frisky if I'm wearing a suit.
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Oct. 6, 2009 8:17 a.m. mtn SuperDork
DILYSI Dave wrote: The wife always gets frisky if I'm wearing a suit.
I'd be wearin a suit every freakin day
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Oct. 6, 2009 8:40 a.m. slefain Dork
DILYSI Dave wrote:
I don't particularly like wearing a suit. OTOH, I look like a badass in a suit, so I can live with it. The wife always gets frisky if I'm wearing a suit.
Ditto on that, ever since I started my new job and wear a suit every day, the wife is MUCH happier to see me come through the door......
But I don't wear a tie every day. Suit pants, long sleeve shirt, undershirt, suit coat, nice shoes. No tie, looks fine. Ask the music director what is more important, having a choir member or a tie.
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Oct. 6, 2009 8:53 a.m. carguy123 Dork
Ditto on that, ever since I started my new job and wear a suit every day, the wife is MUCH happier to see me come through the door......
But I don't wear a tie every day. Suit pants, long sleeve shirt, undershirt, suit coat, nice shoes. No tie, looks fine. Ask the music director what is more important, having a choir member or a tie.
It could the fact you are no longer sitting on the couch day after day unshaved and unwashed, but I'd bet it's the new job and the paycheck that makes your wife much happier to see you come thru the door and not the suit.
I did ask the choir director that question, sort of, which is the reason for my post. I got an email saying "that was not up for discussion". Yeah - Harsh!
He might not want to discuss it, but I do and that's the reason for my post. I'm looking for some help with some info to throw out there.
Changing churches isn't a great idea, but still on the table, since there are very few churches with choirs left. We looked at 16 to find this one. Also the wife likes it a lot. They do unusual things like free productions of plays such as Beauty and the Beast and they just finished one of the Music Man. So in soooo many ways they are very progressive, except this one.
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Oct. 6, 2009 9:11 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork
The response worries me more than the requirement, if they are so indisposed to open discussion how can they help those of US with difficulty deciphering the bible. "That is not open for discussion." is what I would expect as a military recruit and nowhere else, least of all in a church.
As for the tie, if it is a real medical issue they can't force you to wear it, nor can they remove you from choir for a medical problem, that is illegal.
Oh and Angus Young would have pulled it out from between his buttcheeks after throwing his pants into the crowd.
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Oct. 6, 2009 9:31 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork
It's their choir. If you want to sing in it, you have to play by their rules.
No different than autocrossing requiring a helmet.
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Oct. 6, 2009 9:48 a.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork
foxtrapper wrote:
It's their choir. If you want to sing in it, you have to play by their rules.
No different than autocrossing requiring a helmet.
+1
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Oct. 6, 2009 9:49 a.m. 16vCorey SuperDork
Wally wrote:
I like a tie at church and other functions, although I'm often in the minority. i am also required to wear a tie with my winter uniform but it mys be a "breakaway" or clip on tie incase someone tries to choke me with it. It does happen, I've had mine ripped off twice. i also picked up a few of these since I still have trouble tying them sometimes.
The knot is always perfect and you control how tight it is by how hard you pull it shut.
That's awesome. I wear a tie so infrequently, that I have one, that I've tied once, and keep it that way. Actually, it's probably been tied two or three times, but I pretty much keep it tied and ready to go.
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Oct. 6, 2009 9:55 a.m. bludroptop Dork
I'm not sure that you have much in the way of legal recourse, given that it is what amounts to a private club - they can pretty much make up the rules. But that is not my area of expertise.
If you can get the doctor to give you a written opinion that wearing a tie poses a health risk - I'd be inclined to bypass the choir director and open up the "discussion" to the whole congregation. Even so, if your medical condition prevents you from conforming to a rule that the congregation perceives as reasonable and appropriate, you're probably SOL.
I'm not a church goer, but if I were - that would be the last place I'd want to encounter arbitrary and non-negotiable exertion of authority.
Oh wait, that's why I don't go in the first place.
Sorry, I'm not being any help, am I?
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Oct. 6, 2009 10:00 a.m. carguy123 Dork
bludroptop wrote:
Sorry, I'm not being any help, am I?
Bluedroptop you're not the only one.
And it's not THEIR choir, it's OUR choir. While churches aren't total democracies they do have to answer to the congregation's wants and needs moreso than does your job. I have been wanting to do this quietly, privately and easily and not raise a huge stink so I was hoping for some good arguments or articles that could make me at least get them to start thinking.
Ties no Longer Binding at Offices By Don Nelson Athens Banner-Herald June 15, 2008
Ties are in a bind.
Despite the boost in sales Father's Day might bring to the necktie business, that icon of professionalism for working men is losing its power. Ties have suffered a steady decline in popularity the past 10 years.
Between 2002 and 2007, the number of men wearing ties to work everyday went from 10 percent to 6 percent, according to a Gallup poll conducted last fall.
"Yes, the tie business is down," said Thomas Hinson, manager of George Gibson's Men's Wear. "Businesses overall have gone to business casual attire with a feeling that it increased productivity."
The Athens men's apparel store has seen its sales of suits and ties going down the past several years, but customers have been purchasing more sports shirts and khaki pants, Hinson said.
"With the exception of jobs like attorneys where you have to have a suit because of the visibility in public, many offices are encouraging less formal attire," Hinson said.
During the 1960s and 1970s, University of Georgia history professor Will Holmes, now retired, sported a coat and tie often but in later years sluffed off the more formal dress.
"We wore a coat and tie most days, but by the time I retired in 2000, I never wore a coat and tie to school," Holmes said. "It was changing expectations; everybody was dressing casual and that was the thing to do."
The power of the tie has diminished so much so that the trade organization representing American tie makers recently disbanded.
The Men's Dress Furnishings Association, which started as the Men's Tie Foundation in 1947, dissolved June 5, according to a Wall Street Journal story.
Membership in the Men's Dress Furnishings Association had dwindled to 25 people, nearly an 80 percent decline from its 120-member hey-day in the 1980s, the Journal reported.
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Oct. 6, 2009 10:28 a.m. slefain Dork
carguy123 wrote:
Ditto on that, ever since I started my new job and wear a suit every day, the wife is MUCH happier to see me come through the door......
But I don't wear a tie every day. Suit pants, long sleeve shirt, undershirt, suit coat, nice shoes. No tie, looks fine. Ask the music director what is more important, having a choir member or a tie.
It could the fact you are no longer sitting on the couch day after day unshaved and unwashed, but I'd bet it's the new job and the paycheck that makes your wife much happier to see you come thru the door and not the suit.
I did ask the choir director that question, sort of, which is the reason for my post. I got an email saying "that was not up for discussion". Yeah - Harsh!
He might not want to discuss it, but I do and that's the reason for my post. I'm looking for some help with some info to throw out there.
Changing churches isn't a great idea, but still on the table, since there are very few churches with choirs left. We looked at 16 to find this one. Also the wife likes it a lot. They do unusual things like free productions of plays such as Beauty and the Beast and they just finished one of the Music Man. So in soooo many ways they are very progressive, except this one.
Coming from a person who just quit the choir himself, I say if they are inflexible then quit or wear a clip-on and keep singing. But ask yourself why you joined the choir first. I joined for the wrong reasons (to hopefully save our aging choir). I wasn't called to sing in the choir and it isn't my area of ministry. Sure I like to sing and I miss sometimes, but I'd rather the congregation hear somebody sing who is truly moved by the spirit than someone who just likes to sing in general.
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Oct. 6, 2009 10:41 a.m. carguy123 Dork
A clip on tie solves nothing, it is still a tie and still binds.
If they won't discuss this with me then I will quit the choir and the church. I'll stay out of church for a while to get the bad taste out of my mouth and then begin the search again. It took me over a year to find this church.
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Oct. 6, 2009 10:46 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor
It's not the tie, it's your shirts. They're too small in the neck.
A properly sized shirt, with a properly tied tie won't bind. A clip-on DEFINITELY won't bind, since there is nothing to bind. It's just hanging there. Any binding is in the collar.
For whatever it's worth, I have a hard time finding shirts that fit my fat neck, too.
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Oct. 6, 2009 1:02 p.m. f86sabjf New Reader
4eyes wrote:
If I had to wear a tie to church, I wouldn't go! Jesus did NOT wear a tie
Suits are a symbol of corporate servitude 
My thoughts exactly . God could care less. His son wore hand made robes for peat sakes. Quit trying to impress eachother and get on with worshiping.
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Oct. 6, 2009 1:03 p.m. f86sabjf New Reader
i would go somewhere and get a properly fitted shirt though if this is the road you choose to take.
