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z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/21/18 1:13 p.m.
Type Q said:
z31maniac said:

Neither the girlfriend or I are big fans of OKC, but when a company famous for sponsoring the America's Cup with big red signage calls, you answer. 

Assuming I continue to build my skillset and kick arse here, I should be able to go full-time remote (vs just 2-3 days per week) in 2-3 years. Which should coincide nicely with my girlfriend finishing up her degree and being able to sell the house I purchased last year and break even (let's save that discussion for another thread please).

If you are talking about the one where the founder bought an island in Hawaii a few years ago, I caution you not to plan your life around long term employment with them. Silicon Valley based employers shed people the minute it looks like might not make there numbers for more than one quarter. There is little, if any, remorse about it. I spent 15+ years in Silicon Valley HR dept.'s watching this play out over and over. 

The reality is you must plan for for be laid off in the next downturn. I would suggest that you look for an area where there are several employers that will use your skills. You need to be close enough for easy interviews and working at a the office if needed. If you are building career with tech companies, don't put all your career eggs (i.e. skill development, career progression) in one basket EVER.  

Thanks for the insight (genuinely, not being snarky). As someone who came from the manufacturing/defense side of Technical Writing, I know all to well about margins and layoffs. 

You are correct in the big company that bought us. I'm not worried about your fears at the moment. They are dumping enormous amounts of money into our company to grow us globally, as I'm sure you understand, I can't talk numbers. I do know they have taken over more of the floor that we have in the office in OKC. Just built a huge campus in Austin, etc. 

There is always the potential for a negative to happen, however, I can tell you from my LinkedIn profile, having a company with that stature on your resume gets you a lot more attention than if you hadn't been hired by such a high profile company.

 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
5/21/18 3:20 p.m.
Type Q said:
Adrian_Thompson said:
 
  ....Lansing doesn't appeal to me at all.....

I grew up there and left 20+ years ago. It always felt like I was in the city with the smallest imagination/vision in the state. I have not seen evidences that has changed much.

Something went wrong with your quoting, but I have to agree with you.  Lancing does nothing for me.  Grand Rapids is really nice with a strangely harmonious blend of wealthy right wingers and massive liberal younger population (not just the students).  I like it.  Traverse City I love so much that unless something goes awry with my life plans, I'll be living there within 20 years.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
5/22/18 10:09 a.m.

For those suggesting Flagstaff and Santa Fe, what about Flagstaff?  It sort of reminds me of Flagstaff without the collage town tax.  It's also an hour closer to Phoenix Metro area for the real big stuff.  Personally the desert isn't for me, but gaining the altitude really helps the livability of the place.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
5/22/18 10:24 a.m.
Appleseed said:

Remember that the smaller you go, the further entrenched the Good Ol'Boy system is.

I completely hated the Good Ol' Boy system when I lived in it.

Now, I live in a medium city, and I sure miss the Good Ol' Boy's ability to get stuff done.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/22/18 12:55 p.m.

I genuinely appreciate all of your input. We still have some time to figure things out, but it's always good to hear others opinions. 

Type Q
Type Q SuperDork
5/22/18 7:31 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I was not sure how old you are or what stage you are at in your career. I see lots of recent college graduates coming into to Bay Area thinking they are the E36 M3 and will have job choices and great pay forever. I am trying to caution them if the will listen they need to be ready for 6 months or more of unemployment because that what it can take during downturn here. We are starting to see the beginnings of another slow down.

I have worked in aerospace as well as tech. The biggest difference is the speed at which companies will hire and then let go. I have seen recruiting teams pushed to their limits to add 250 new hires in a year to a business unit that started with 700 and then 4 to 6 months later have the company cancel a project and layoff 600.

It sounds like you are moving forward with your eyes open.  I am sure your will be fine.

 

 

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/23/18 9:13 a.m.
Type Q said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I was not sure how old you are or what stage you are at in your career. I see lots of recent college graduates coming into to Bay Area thinking they are the E36 M3 and will have job choices and great pay forever. I am trying to caution them if the will listen they need to be ready for 6 months or more of unemployment because that what it can take during downturn here. We are starting to see the beginnings of another slow down.

I have worked in aerospace as well as tech. The biggest difference is the speed at which companies will hire and then let go. I have seen recruiting teams pushed to their limits to add 250 new hires in a year to a business unit that started with 700 and then 4 to 6 months later have the company cancel a project and layoff 600.

It sounds like you are moving forward with your eyes open.  I am sure your will be fine.

 

 

 

36, 10+ years experience as a Tech Writer in multiple industries. I feel like I'm OK, but have been laid off twice in the past, so I know nothing is granted.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
5/23/18 9:26 a.m.

The US economy has been expanding for close to 9 years.  10 years is basically the longest unbroken expansion so the chances are it's not going to keep going forever.  Zero politics here, I think presidents from both sides get too much credit AND blame for the direction of the economy, it's cyclical at the end of the day.  That said, given you've experienced down turns and layoffs in the past, would it be best to head for a location that will make future employment options easily accessible?  While your current employer is happy with telecommuting a future one may not be.  

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
5/23/18 10:01 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I'm hiring a couple tech writers up here in MN...  

pheller
pheller PowerDork
5/23/18 10:15 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:

For those suggesting Flagstaff and Santa Fe, what about Flagstaff?  It sort of reminds me of Flagstaff without the collage town tax.  It's also an hour closer to Phoenix Metro area for the real big stuff.  Personally the desert isn't for me, but gaining the altitude really helps the livability of the place.

Are you drunk on a Monday?cheeky

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/23/18 10:24 a.m.

Adrian - Agreed. That's a good idea. Probably shouldn't make plans based on being with the current employer until retirement. 

Fueled by Caffeine - We are tied to OKC because of the house for a few years. I don't think I could handle a real winter anyway. At least, I doubt any company would pay me what it would take deal with a real winter. 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
5/23/18 10:32 a.m.
pheller said:
Adrian_Thompson said:

For those suggesting Flagstaff and Santa Fe, what about Flagstaff?  It sort of reminds me of Flagstaff without the collage town tax.  It's also an hour closer to Phoenix Metro area for the real big stuff.  Personally the desert isn't for me, but gaining the altitude really helps the livability of the place.

Are you drunk on a Monday?cheeky

Possibly, but if I was it was unwittingly.  So, please enlighten me, what's the difference?  Serious Q as I'm 2,000 miles out of touch.

carknut
carknut New Reader
5/23/18 11:16 a.m.

Hutchinson KS. its 30 min to Wichita for concerts, 1 hr to Salina to the Steifel theater. Active car culture in town as well as in the afore mentioned cities. Midwestern values if you like those, and rent is cheap. 

The bad: 

taxes.

pheller
pheller PowerDork
5/23/18 11:24 a.m.

Flagstaff has a huge college (23k students), and is 1.5 hours from the nearest major population center, Prescott and Cave Creek (a Suburb of Phoenix). 

Quick comparison of populations:

Flagstaff - 73,000 with a college of 23k. 

Santa Fe - 83,000 with college(s) under 5k. 

As you can see, Flagstaff's Northern Arizona University both provides lots of jobs, but also puts lots of pressure on the city. 

In the west, you either live in a huge city like Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake, Tucson, Albuquerque or so forth, or you live outside of a comfortable commute to those metropolitan areas. In this regard, Flagstaff is isolated, as many people don't commute to-from Flagstaff. If they do (as some of my coworkers do) they must be comfortable with an hour+ commute. It doesn't make any sense to live in a remote mountain town and drive that far to work, especially when our pay scales pale in comparison to that of metropolitan areas, and our housing prices are among some of the highest in the state. 

By comparison, Santa Fe is not as isolated. It only takes about an hour to go from downtown Santa Fe to downtown Albuquerque. Suburb to Suburb is about 30 minutes. That mean you can technically live in the outskirts of Santa Fe and commute to a job in the outskirts of Albuquerque. 

The other major difference concerning the two towns is that of the National Forest and State Trust lands surrounding each, and the demand on privately owned land in relationship to the downtowns of each city. Santa Fe is only bordered on the east side by National Forest, and it's got about 13 miles to the west before it hits a reservation. Due south of Santa Fe is all privately owned land. While there is certainly pressure on Santa Fe for development by vacationers and retirees, it's nearby or in-town colleges have total enrollment under 5k. 

Compare that with Flagstaff, which is surrounded on all sides by Coconino National Forest. There is National Forest land within 1/4 mile of downtown! The only "gap" of substantial size is that of Doney Park, out towards Sunset Crater National Monument. It takes about 25 minutes to commute from that area of the county into downtown Flagstaff, but the housing is cheaper. Windows, Munds Park, Bellemont, Williams are all bedroom communities with slightly cheaper housing, but 30-45 minute commutes.

The biggest influence in Flagstaff is Northern Arizona University. It adds 23k in seasonal population, and estimates say we've got about 13,000 students living off-campus. That's 13,000 people who may not be residents, who may not be year-round, who come into town every year looking for an apartment. They bring Mommy/Daddy Money, they bring OPEC Wealth, they bring California Equity. Obviously, investors see this as a goldmine. As a result, housing within a 3-mile radius of the campus is astronomical. It's not just the prices, it's the demand - anything "decent" gets bought up quick, all cash, and flipped into student housing. it's amazing how many Phoenicians (people from Phoenix) buy property up here just to park their wealth, and beautiful houses in great neighborhoods sit vacant because they bought when housing was cheap (10 years ago) and will make money on those houses even without renting. Want a fixer upper for cheap (by cheap I mean under $200k)? You've gotta look outside of that 3 miles radius, into neighborhoods where your neighbor might use his front yard as a junkyard, or the guy across the street is a drunk, or your commute is 25 minutes. 

Now, this wouldn't be a big deal if it weren't for the fact that most people who live in Flagstaff (or Santa Fe) want to live where the action is. You don't move to a hip mountain town in the Southwest to live 10 miles outside of town. You live here because you want to keep active, you want to be involved, you want to be able to walk or ride downtown. You want to know your neighbors and be apart of the community. There are far cheaper places than either Santa Fe or Flagstaff if you want to have cheap rural living. People live in these towns to be apart of the outdoor/active/community-oriented/progressive demographic, but in the case of Flagstaff, the pressure from investors onto the housing market makes it near unaffordable for most to live that lifestyle. 

My wife and I have very specific career experience (me in utilities/mapping and her in social work) and neither pay enough to live on a single income. That being said, if someone offered me a job for roughly what I make now in Santa Fe, I think I'd probably spring for it, just simply because we could live in a much nicer neighborhood for roughly the same price that we're paying in less nice neighborhood in Flagstaff. 

The only "downside" to Santa Fe and Albuquerque is their relative isolation from the rest of the country. ABQ/SF are hours from the nearest major population centers. There is plenty to do if you're an outdoor person, but I know many go a bit stir crazy in "Island" of New Mexico. ABQ Airport is getting better, but it's no hub. Prices are higher than Denver or Phoenix, mostly connecting flights, limited schedule, etc. 

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/23/18 3:29 p.m.

In reply to pheller :

 I'll cross Kirtland AFB of my list. 

pheller
pheller PowerDork
5/23/18 5:03 p.m.

I actually really like Albuquerque, because it's got more character than Phoenix, not quite as hot, better surroundings, cheaper housing, and more character. Seriously, adobe style housing is awesome. 

That being said, it does have some legit issues with crime.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
5/23/18 6:07 p.m.

In reply to pheller :

I've been there, I really liked the homes. But, it's in Timbuktu. Is the crime that bad? Like Detroit?

pheller
pheller PowerDork
5/23/18 6:28 p.m.

I think ABQ is pretty high in terms of small crimes mostly property crimes (vehicle break-ins are super common), and its within the top 20 of most violent crimes. It's not like some of the bigger cities, but its percentages are high relative to its population. As with most, it's concentrated in certain areas more than a city-wide epidemic.  

 

In terms of its isolation? Yep. In Albuquerque that isolation isn't quite as bad as Flagstaff. Smaller western towns have "one option syndrome" where you've got one option for Grocery, one for Movie Theater, one for Autoshop, etc. Flagstaff isn't quite "one option", but options are limited, and very often prices are driven up by the fact that the demand is high and supply is limited.

Albuquerque is just big enough to avoid some of that, but it still has slightly limited supply. 

Santa Fe does better than Flagstaff by a mile, though, because it doesn't have the finicky demand of a huge college town, so supply is more steady. Less boom and bust in Santa Fe.

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