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June 30, 2010 7:32 a.m. JoeyM HalfDork
alfadriver wrote:

Redhornet wrote:

madmallard wrote:

...I never did get the arrogant and full of themselves attitude Tesla has towards the rest of the car industry...

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree, but on the other hand I think about the "Tesla attitude" and, in my opinion, in this case it's a good thing. Wanting to do things completely differently than what everyone else has done is what needs to happen to shake up the car industry. Without companies like this to make radical decisions and do unorthodox things, there is stagnation.

The problem that I have with it is that they are overselling thier capabilities by a rather wide margin.

OEM's spend billions of dollars and up to 5 years to develop new vehicles for good reasons- so that when you get them, there are as few of problems as possible, and they can be made as consistently as possible.

If you look close, the process is shared by all OEM's- some details are changed, but all in all, we do the same things to keep the customer happy.

Tesla has definitely gotten away with stuff that major OEMs would not:
- shipping cars with transmissions that are too brittle for the motor
- offering "don't use first gear" as a solution to the transmission issue, thus limiting the performance that customers were paying for
- telling customers, "that $50K deposit you put down will still get you a car, but the final price will be higher because things that we told you were standard equipment are now expensive options
I think fisker has a better shot at survival than tesla, but it is still slim. High-end EVs are too small of a market to be your bread and butter.

Only a tiny fraction of the car-buying public can afford a halo/supercar or a luxury car. A much smaller fraction of that group are in the market for an EV. Small markets make it difficult to sell enough cars to stay in business. If an EV company wants to stay in business, they will need to aim at a broader customer base; i.e. build a car that is close to the range, performance and price of a camry, then market it to the common man. We're still a long way away from that.
June 30, 2010 7:50 a.m. Wally SuperDork

I was all charged up for it until I read this thread
June 30, 2010 7:56 a.m. JoeyM HalfDork

very punny
July 2, 2010 2:44 p.m. Otto_Maddox Reader

Well, it looks like it isn't holding up so well today. Nothing has changed with the company. That's the problem. People buy stocks to gamble, not to invest.
Aug. 16, 2010 11:27 p.m. Lesley SuperDork

I'm driving the 2.5 roadster Wednesday. Really eager to see how it compares to an Elise, which I've only driven briefly.
Aug. 16, 2010 11:48 p.m. triumph5 Reader

racinginc215 wrote:

You all looked at his wrong. the IPO was great I'm up 50K right now. the stock came out of the gate at 19 dropped to 17.54 where I triggered a buy for 5000 shares. today it's sitting at 27.99 I'm up 10.45 a share it will hover around 30 and I'm out with all my money back and up about 60K. Not bad for 20 minutes on the net and an etrade account.

That's exactky what I did--with less money. I got in at 19.51, and sold at 27.23. Made my money and got out.

A year from now it will be in receivership. As Dr. Hess pointed out, and a few others, way, wat too much smoke and hype. The fundamentals just weren't there.

IPOs are one of the easiest--if a bit risky--ways to make some quick money--you HAVE to do careful research/homework on the company and individuals involved, though..
Aug. 16, 2010 11:52 p.m. triumph5 Reader

Otto_Maddox wrote:

Well, it looks like it isn't holding up so well today. Nothing has changed with the company. That's the problem. People buy stocks to gamble, not to invest.

P.S. 99 percent of investments are gambles to one degree or another. I have long term and short term investments. Tesla was short.
Aug. 17, 2010 11:34 a.m. madmallard New Reader

^^^ THANK YOU.

Helooo~? If its not a guarantee, then its a 'gamble.' Thats what all investments are that are not guaranteed.
Aug. 17, 2010 11:38 a.m. triumph5 Reader

madmallard wrote:

^^^ THANK YOU.

Helooo~? If its not a guarantee, then its a 'gamble.' Thats what all investments are that are not guaranteed.

Sorry to offend.
Aug. 17, 2010 12:57 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

madmallard wrote:

^^^ THANK YOU.

Helooo~? If its not a guarantee, then its a 'gamble.' Thats what all investments are that are not guaranteed.

I disagree.

First off- there are NO guarantees in life. You have no guarantee that you will have a job tomorrow, that the interest on your savings account will remain the same, or that you will have the privilege to get out of bed with good health.

A gamble is when the odds are very much stacked against you, and the outcome is entirely out of your control. It is usually designed for one specific entity (not you) to win. Horse racing, Las Vegas, and the lottery all qualify.

An investment is something you have some level of control over, and the odds are not nearly as bad. Spending the money to go to school is an investment in your future. Buying a property that you have every logical reason to believe will grow in value is an investment. Wisely putting money into a company that you have some knowledge of is an investment.

BTW, owning a casino is probably not gambling, but rather an investment.

I would, however, agree that most people who put money in the stock market are not investing.
Aug. 17, 2010 1:03 p.m. mtn SuperDork

SVreX wrote:

I would, however, agree that most people who put money in the stock market are not investing.

And thats the problem. If I've learned anything in my three months in it (see previous threads) its that you put it in as an investment in safe companies that will pay a decent dividend (this won't always happen, but usually does). It should be used as an investment, and only a small part of the whole thing.

Now that being said, I do play around with a little bit of it trying to make that quick buck. So far in 4 tries, I'm up 10 dollars including commission. Not bad for the tiny amounts that I can actually play with (25 dollars).
Aug. 17, 2010 2:26 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

Actually, mtn, that's excellent.

40% net return in 3 months? Very good!

Now all 'ya gotta do is put a little more into it!
Aug. 17, 2010 2:27 p.m. mtn SuperDork

SVreX wrote:

Actually, mtn, that's excellent.

40% net return in 3 months? Very good!

Now all 'ya gotta do is put a little more into it!

Not gonna happen. I'll reinvest that money, but that original $10 is all that I'm going to "play" with. So if it goes way up, wonderful, I have more to play with. But its all for "play" and to learn how everything works. These were risky transactions and I'm not going to put my investment money into it.
Aug. 17, 2010 2:42 p.m. BoxheadTim Dork

mtn wrote:

These were risky transactions and I'm not going to put my investment money into it.

Word. Would've been good if some people I know had remembered that advice, too.
Aug. 17, 2010 2:44 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

Very wise.

I wasn't suggesting you mess with your investments. I was suggesting considering putting more into your "play" account when you get the chance.
Aug. 17, 2010 3:36 p.m. madmallard New Reader

triumph5 wrote:

madmallard wrote:

^^^ THANK YOU.

Helooo~? If its not a guarantee, then its a 'gamble.' Thats what all investments are that are not guaranteed.

Sorry to offend.

no offense, emphatic agreement. ;]

in the strictist sense, all investment is gambling. This is because 1, there is no guarantee of outcome, and 2, no guarantee that any specific course of action is superior to another. There are strategies, but in the end, this is really risk mitigation which is all gambling essentially is. The scale of risk is immaterial, its all still gambling.

Some people saving monies under their matresses can conceivably come out ahead after 20 years.

Some people's 401Ks tank after 40 years. Some people buy baseball cards or beanie babies.

But I think people need to realise it is a gamble and there are no guarantees in life except death and taxes.
Aug. 17, 2010 4:43 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

Again, I disagree.

–noun 1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value. 2. a particular instance or mode of investing. 3. a thing invested in, as a business, a quantity of shares of stock, etc. 4. something that is invested; sum invested. 5. the act or fact of investing or state of being invested, as with a garment. 6. a devoting, using, or giving of time, talent, emotional energy, etc., as for a purpose or to achieve something: His investment in the project included more time than he cared to remember. 7. Biology . any covering, coating, outer layer, or integument, as of an animal or vegetable. 8. the act of investing with a quality, attribute, etc. 9. investiture with an office, dignity, or right. 10. a siege or blockade; the surrounding of a place with military forces or works, as in besieging. 11. Also called investment compound. Metallurgy . a refractory material applied in a plastic state to a pattern to make a mold. 12. Archaic . a garment or vestment.

Note that 2 words are specifically missing- "chance" and "risk"

Gambling involves both. Investing does not necessarily involve either.

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