I use the library to borrow Haynes manuals and obscure books on cars. If the library were to cease to exist, it would be a very sad day indeed.
I use the library to borrow Haynes manuals and obscure books on cars. If the library were to cease to exist, it would be a very sad day indeed.
1988RedT2 wrote:Keith Tanner wrote: The digital domain isn't to be blamed for the loss of this information...I'm not entirely sure that even this is true. Years ago, you could find dusty volumes on the shelves that hadn't been checked out in years. Now, all those old books have been removed to make room for computer workstations.
It is notable that every copy of Wyer's book that is available for sale is ex-library.
Keith Tanner wrote: my point was that the concept of "libraries aren't needed, everything's online" is very false.
Nobody here is arguing this. However, by the time libraries as we know them cease to exist, I think you'll find that there will be far more titles available at the library computer workstations and via their e-reader service, than they ever could have conceived of holding indefinitely on their shelves.
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1988RedT2 wrote: Years ago, you could find dusty volumes on the shelves that hadn't been checked out in years. Now, all those old books have been removed to make room for computer workstations.
The library needs just as much space for books that have not been looked at in years as they do books that have a waiting list to check out. As the years go by and more books continue to be published every year that the library wants/needs to carry, the idea that as any given library becomes space limited, they would not also have had to remove those same old unused and underappreciated books in favor of newer more popular books is nothing but a romanticized fantasy.
Keith Tanner wrote: But not all information is on the internet.
Nor was it all put down on paper.
Neither nullifies the existence or value of the other.
Keith Tanner wrote: It is notable that every copy of Wyer's book that is available for sale is ex-library.
Which brings up two distinct possibilities. One is that most, if not all, were already released from library service before the widespread advent of large computer workstation blocks in the libraries. The other is that we will never know just how soon they might or might not have still been released from library service if not for the advent of large computer workstation blocks in the libraries.
This article is worth a read:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19453_6-reasons-were-in-another-book-burning-period-in-history.html
Digitization is just the tip of the iceberg among reasons for books being discarded from libraries, and it's not the first time a form of book miniaturization has caused libraries to throw books out either.
My main concern with libraries is that they are no longer seen as sources of knowledge and learning, instead they are seen by most of their visitors as places where you can get on the internet and facestalk for cheap, while you should be applying for jobs or doing homework.
Many libraries are fighting a battle against visitors who only want the computer as a means of checking facebook and twitter, playing video games, or what have you. Frankly, I think the libraries need to charge for those services. If you're legitimately looking for a job and using the internet to search for information, ok, but your kids shouldn't sit there for hours on end scrolling through facebook that they don't have access to at home.
PHeller wrote: Many libraries are fighting a battle against visitors who only want the computer as a means of checking facebook and twitter, playing video games, or what have you. Frankly, I think the libraries need to charge for those services. If you're legitimately looking for a job and using the internet to search for information, ok, but your kids shouldn't sit there for hours on end scrolling through facebook that they don't have access to at home.
Why do those activities hurt the library? I don't think they do. I think a library is a community place. All people are welcome to come and learn or seek knowledge as they choose.
When I was a kid I would look for books that depicted adult themes and subjects. And because it was a public library, I could do just that. I was exploring, exercising my curiosity. Is trolling facebook or web surfing all that different?
I get both e-books and real books from the library, but recently it's been somewhat disconcerting to see them getting rid of a lot of real books (I can go back through my record of what I've checked out since 2005 and now there are tons of "Record Not Found" entries). But, we do now have access to other library collections through kind of a streamlined interlibrary loan system, so I guess that makes up for it.
An article from the NY Times a couple weeks ago, that says sales of E-books are down and printed media has made a resurgence. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/business/media/the-plot-twist-e-book-sales-slip-and-print-is-far-from-dead.html?_r=0
I've thought about the E-readers, but haven't bought one - I still much prefer reading an actual book on paper.
I don't recommend buying an E-reader. Any phone, tablet, laptop or desktop will do the job just fine 
There is something about the printed form that is just pleasing. The differences in page thickness, typeface and even the coarseness of the printed page makes each book unique. The smell of the binding, or in older books, the faint mustiness that, to my senses, promises knowledge or entertainment.
I can take a natty, mass produced copy of a paperback camping or out in the kayak to read while waiting for a fish to bite and not worry over much about getting it muddy, sandy, damp or even losing it all together. If a bit of mud gets on the pages, it's a mark of honor that I can look at the next time I pick the book up and remember, "Ahhh, Lake Tear of the Clouds, 1994."
Or, take an old children's book, passed lovingly down from generation to generation, used to spark the young imagination and plant the love of reading into young minds. Look; you see it's spine mended several times, some of its pages ripped and smudged with small fingerprints of decades old home-made preserves. "Your great-grandfather read this to your papa by firelight in that house he built for himself, your papa read it to me when I was young, and now I'm reading it to you. We can read it any time you want, but we have to keep this book safe, so, if you decide to have your own children, you can read it to them."
Right on Brett----- similarly, MP3's are much more convenient than records, but you lose the fun of opening the record, appreciating the artwork, and checking out the liner-notes. Heck, some bands even used to include posters in the record package. I've got a really cool Stones poster, and a Beatles poster both of which were included inside. I see digital readers in a similar light---- way more convenient, but also less......stimulating.
Technology gives.....but it also takes away.
Actually, the risk of losing digital information is real.
Vint Cerf warns of possible digital dark age
Think of all that we know about the Civil War because letters home were preserved on paper, and the photographs as physical media. How many letters or pictures from some future president are gone forever because they're only on an old decaying Zip disk?
Hillary Clinton anyone?. I was never here.
One consideration of digital vs print is digital publishing allows almost anyone to get a book published. This has both a good and bad result:
Good: anyone can publish a book. No longer are you at the mercy of a handful of publishing houses to decide if your book is worthy or not.
Bad: anyone can publish a book. No longer is careful editing or the ability to spell check a necessity to getting a book published.
I've published two e-books and am working on a third. I was able to publish my first book in a few days vs shopping it around for (probably) years with no guarantee it would ever see the light of day. While I'm not getting rich at it digital publishing has allowed me to satisfy a life goal...and the feedback I've gotten has confirmed that I actually have a knack for this sort of thing.
I resisted e-readers for a long time but finally decided that the much lower cost of books combined with the lack of shelf space they consumed was the way to go nowadays. I still buy paper books that carry illustrations or are volumes I probably will refer back to regularly as they are easier to search through. For general fiction or text-only though I prefer the digital editions.
GameboyRMH wrote: I don't recommend buying an E-reader. Any phone, tablet, laptop or desktop will do the job just fine
If you get one with an e-ink display, the difference between it and LCD screen devices is fairly dramatic. Better legibility and an incredible battery life.
I'm a voracious reader, I have been all my life. Changing from physical books to an e-reader meant that I could carry a huge library with me all the time, in a form factor that's small enough to slip into my back pocket. I do take it camping and to the beach, I just take care of it. As noted earlier, it's always been about the content for me and not the presentation. Sure, it's nice to open up an old book - but it's the stuff inside that will transport you away.
MP3s are a great comparison. You don't get the ritual of selecting your record from the carefully stored albums, looking at the liner notes, cleaning the dust off and carefully dropping the needle. But if the music itself doesn't take you somewhere else, you're just playing with toys. An MP3 player lets you get to that music anytime, anywhere.
It's true that archivists have real challenges with digital media. One of the big problems is the physical form - CDs, DVDs, zip drives, etc failing over time. We've figured out over the centuries how to preserve paper - mostly - although it involves a level of care that effectively prevents access to the materials. The big advantage to pure digital media is that it can be accessed without affecting it.
Marjorie Suddard wrote: I see it both ways. In many respects, the web IS a modern Library of Alexandria--which is I think why we are having this conversation, because losing it would take with it a lot of our learning. And nyan cat. But as a lover of books, I find that the e-reader is not quite the same. Browsing titles on it is very one-dimensional, and doesn't begin to spark the memories--or the love and desire to revisit them--that I get browsing a shelf of books I've read. Margie
Yep, this. Time was you could walk into someone's house (first date, maybe?) and learn a LOT about that person by looking at their bookshelf. I view my loads of printed paper books as signs of accomplishment, ya know? That's something an e-reader will never accomplish.
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