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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-udsIV4Hmc
Sure, it is 20 minutes long but it is both entertaining, insightful and thought provoking which makes it worth the time to watch/listen.
I was especially interested in his theory about "The War on Work" which comes out in about minute 16.
My man-crush on him is now stronger.
genius
...the last 4 minutes of that are really just fundamentaly good stuff.
Is it Ironic that I was watching that while I am supposed to be working in my office job that I traded out a manual labor job for???
He gave a similar speech when he came to UF.
Great guy!
Bonus points to me for wearing a GRM shirt!
Impressive.
However, his war on work analogy would require a time when people didn't "want to work less" and "enjoy the results of their work more". I think what he's witnessed is the result that "war on work" where humans have pursued technologies to use mechanical energy to do things rather than labor. The "dirty jobs" he does are simply problems we haven't yet to find a more efficient way to accomplish mechanically. Man's greatest asset is not his strength, but his mind, which Mike seems to emphasize in his anecdote about the pig farmer. His final diatribe about the state of the infrastructure has more to do with the "tragedy of the commons" issues than a "war on work". Most roads are built with public money and are maintained by public money and since governments succumb to squeeky wheel syndrome, they're very unlikely to make road condition a priority until the voices yelling about road condition are louder than the voices of....(name an entitlement program). I respect Mike Rowe and respect any person who works for a living (rather than live off the largesse of our government), but I see no reason to hold those who do dirty jobs up any higher than a person who goes and gets an accounting degree and crunches numbers in a cubicle for a living. The real people who deserve our thanks are the ones who think of better ways to do their jobs (more efficiently, safer, more cost effectively) because they're moving us forward as society. The rest of us, well we gotta do something to put bread on our table.
Don't let Margie see this. She gets.... well, you know.
Too late. I didn't think he could be any hotter... then he used the word "Aristotelian." Talk about the way into a girl's heart!
Margie
Palin/Rowe... they have my vote. 
What he is referring to is the way we have been trained to 'look down' on those who do the dirtiest and nastiest jobs that our society requires. For instance: everybody gets to see what the mayor etc 'do' (which is bump their gums and accomplish zero continuously IMHO) but the guy who pitches the trash in the trash truck gets zero 'air time', yet has a much bigger immediate impact on day to day life. If the mayor takes a month off, no one really cares, there's no direct effect. Let the trash guys vanish for a month and see what happens. Yet the trash guys in many cases are an object of derision. 
FWIW, there are some jobs which just can't be replaced by technology (at least not technology as we know it). And like Asimov (I think) said: 'it will always be easier to make organic brains with unskilled labor'. 
^^^ Well put!
Jensenman wrote:Palin/Rowe... they have my vote.
What he is referring to is the way we have been trained to 'look down' on those who do the dirtiest and nastiest jobs that our society requires. For instance: everybody gets to see what the mayor etc 'do' (which is bump their gums and accomplish zero continuously IMHO) but the guy who pitches the trash in the trash truck gets zero 'air time', yet has a much bigger immediate impact on day to day life. If the mayor takes a month off, no one really cares, there's no direct effect. Let the trash guys vanish for a month and see what happens.
FWIW, there are some jobs which just can't be replaced by technology (at least not technology as we know it). And like Asimov (I think) said: 'it will always be easier to make organic brains with unskilled labor'.
I'm in complete agreement.
Signed,
Skilled Manual Laborer
ignorant wrote:I guess Palin/Rowe in 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
ugh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism
Arguments can be made for either side; ughh............
The intellectual heavyweights who slither within the beltway, up/down the coastal corridors, and points in between don't exactly have the greatest track records, either.
Jensenman wrote: Let the trash guys vanish for a month and see what happens.
to play devils advocate..
We'll find someone else.. plenty of people all over the world want the privilege to come to america to get paid as a trashman
(so you guys don't jump down my throat.. I've put my time in as a machinist while I was going to engineering school.. Also I was the only engineering coop in 60 years of operation of the Valeo plant I worked at to be taken to lunch by the whole assembly line when I left... Union facility. been there since 1922)
edti: to clarify.. the "we'll get another" argument goes for 99.999999999999999999% of the world. all levels.
Sure we can find more trash guys. That's not the point. The point is how these people tend to be viewed by those with, er, 'better' jobs who have somehow decided that since they have that 'better' job they may look down their noses at those who have the 'dirty' jobs.
Sorta like the 'limousine liberal'.
Jensenman wrote:Sure we can find more trash guys. That's not the point. The point is how these people tend to be viewed by those with, er, 'better' jobs who have somehow decided that since they have that 'better' job they may look down their noses at those who have the 'dirty' jobs.
Sorta like the 'limousine liberal'.
Riiight.... Only limo I want is a double cab tacoma with a diesel.
The problem with populist arguments is that they have been used alternatively by both sides of the political spectrum. Fascists love the ploy but.. so do Communists to some extent. The fact that both sides have used the same argument against each other instantly discounts it in my book as at that point it has turned it all fluff and no substance.
Nope, it's not a populist argument by fascists, communists, neocons or pick your favorite group, it's truth. You should hear some of the 'medical professionals' talk trash about technicians. Both need a lot of skill and training to do their jobs properly. The difference: doctors bury their mistakes.
It cracks me up when I (or my wife/kid) go to the doctor: it's 'let's try this, if it doesn't work we'll try that'. I (or more accurately my insurance company) gets charged each time. Now if a car comes in my shop, the tech doesn't have that luxury. He's expected to fix it right the first time or fix it for free. In short, they are held to a higher standard than doctors. Yet the doc can look down his snoot at them?
great.. now we're getting all freudian.. Discussions of the Id to ensue..
so.. the egotisical rantings of some should be the basis for a "war on work"...
I could turn that around and talk about a "war on the middle class" or a "war on the white collar"
I've never had a mechanic not charge me for a bad diagnosis. Not once. Ever. It's part of the reason I try to not take my cars to mechanics, unless I'm either totally stumped or physically incapable of doing the work.
Topic Change:
Glad to hear the this posting both increased the man-crush as well as makes Margie "all squishy."
From the same source, here is an interesting presentations from Adam Savage of Mythbusters. It is an intersting insight into his personal life and his personal obsessions.
Again, it is a long one at 16 minutes but if you like the show and the characters you will like the clip.
Duke wrote:I've never had a mechanic not charge me for a bad diagnosis. Not once. Ever. It's part of the reason I try to not take my cars to mechanics, unless I'm either totally stumped or physically incapable of doing the work.
The point he was making though was that obvously the mechanic being wrong as made you angry, even though you admit you didn't know what the problem was either. Do you get that mad at your doctor when he doesn't know? My wife has seen five doctors in the last year, and none of them seem to know how to solve her problems and when she gets upset by this they just say they can't know everything, and pass on another bill for something else and another handful of pills.
Believe me, the 'comeback' is the most hated thing in this business. It will chew into your shop's bottom line and personal income like you wouldn't believe. I can't count the number of times that people have come in for a repair, had it done, come back in for the same condition (quite often it's not really the same thing but they view it as such) and insist that we fix it for free since we 'missed it the first time'. The ones that crack me up are where we do a minimal repair because the customer says that's all they can afford, note it as such on the customer's repair order copy then they come back in demanding we fix it again for free even though they were told it wouldn't work or it wouldn't hold. You learn REAL quick that you do NOT do a 'patch job'; instead you tell 'em to take it somewhere else.
I went to have a tooth fixed a few years back, the doc X rayed the crap out of it, removed the top of the tooth, filled it with whatever that goop is, took an impression and arranged for a crown. It was about a 4-5 day wait for the crown, when I came back in for the crown to be installed it was discovered that the tooth had a crack. He admitted he must have made a mistake and missed the crack the first time around but also asked me if I had been eating rocks. He then made a big show out of refunding the $550.00 he charged me. Real nice, right?
Then I got the insurance statement: he had charged my dental insurance company $400.00 which he did NOT refund. Plus I had to go to a specialist to have the roots extracted which cost me and my insurance company another $600.00.
Wait, it gets better: I was then told that to fix it I needed a dental implant, one of those titanium doohickies that affixes a fake tooth to the jaw. I won't go into detail, suffice it to say it would take about 6 - 12 months and around $8-10k to install. It would be prone to getting food particles under it and there was a real possibility (something like a 10% chance) the titanium anchor could break at a later date, leading to big time jaw surgery. Screw that. It's not a visible tooth, so I have a gap there. So my fang doctor's 'oops' could concieveably cost me $10k or more.
If we did that, all the TV news channels would be out here with their 'crimebuster expose' cameras making a huge deal out of it.
'Nuff said on this topic. I gotta watch that Adam Savage vid when I get home, I want to see if he's a nuts as he seems to be.
Jensenman wrote: 'Nuff said on this topic. I gotta watch that Adam Savage vid when I get home, I want to see if he's a nuts as he seems to be.
My answer would be, "yes he is," but I will leave that for you to decide. Crazy, but in a good way.
Speaking of garbage men going on strike.... Recollections from the owner of Dwellsmart in Mount Pleasant..
Feature Article - Living with Garbage. Vancouver city workers went on strike for 3 months. Services including the issuing of city permits, public libraries, city daycare centers, YMCA facilities, park maintenance, and, most noticeably, trash pick-up were all suspended during this period. Management personnel were able to perform certain duties deemed critical to civic survival (including, parking meter enforcement much to the irritation of Vancouverites), but the public was generally expected to get by without services that most had taken for granted.Vancouver is renowned as a clean, modern city. Its coastal location, hydro-generated electricity, and clean-air initiatives help to keep its air quality among the best of North American cities. Glacier-fed water reservoirs ensure a clean, natural source of water. And a blend of public and private waste management services generally keeps the city free of trash. However, during the three-month strike, piles of garbage (regular trash, yard waste, and household recycling) were both unsightly and a public health concern.
But the situation was not as bad as it could have been. The city endured a strike of similar duration five years ago and people learned valuable lessons that ameliorated the severity of the more recent strike. During the intervening years, several things occurred:
* recycling rates increased, removing a lot of renewable materials from the waste stream (5 to 10 cent bottle return fees encourage recycling of beverage containers) * a city initiative to encourage composting (the city provides a 50% subsidy for the cost of home composters) removed much organic refuse from both kitchen and yard work from the waste stream * Vancouver citizens learned to shop more responsibly, avoiding products with bulky packaging, reusing shopping bags, and giving reusable things away rather than putting them in garbage binsThe garbage strike did provide ample opportunity for analysis of garbage bin contents (in the same way that you get to know houseguests all too well when their stay extends into weeks and months). Vancouverite's love of take-out sushi and Chinese food was tempered by consideration of the myriad food containers that would require disposal. People deferred the purchase of items once considered necessities over concern of what to do with the packaging and any items being replaced. Relegating food waste to composters greatly reduced the stench coming from the bulging garbage bins. And although the city was not collecting from recycling bins, diligent separation of recyclable materials freed up valuable space in the overloaded garbage bins.
Another bright side to the strike was that it promoted camaraderie among citizens, in the same way that any adversity draws together those people suffering its consequences. Neighbors collaborated on garbage strategies, swapping space in garbage bins for space in yard waste containers, or encouraging others to contribute to their composters. Shopkeepers congratulated people for reusing shopping bags from home. People rummaging through recycle bins to collect bottles to exchange for cash were no longer intruders but welcome entrepreneurs.
It is encouraging that so many Americans are taking steps to reduce their portion of their community's waste stream without having to endure a garbage strike. Less garbage means reduced landfill space requirements, less water pollution associated with groundwater seepage from landfills, and decreased air pollution from the burning of garbage. Composting of kitchen and yard waste generates organic fertilizer for gardening. Recycling, in addition to less waste, means less mining and associated pollution. Citizens adopting these everyday habits serve their community and the planet well, and should there be any disruption to garbage service, make everyday living that much better!
dosen't sound so bad.
Jensenman wrote:Believe me, the 'comeback' is the most hated thing in this business. It will chew into your shop's bottom line and personal income like you wouldn't believe. I can't count the number of times that people have come in for a repair, had it done, come back in for the same condition (quite often it's not really the same thing but they view it as such) and insist that we fix it for free since we 'missed it the first time'. The ones that crack me up are where we do a minimal repair because the customer says that's all they can afford, note it as such on the customer's repair order copy then they come back in demanding we fix it again for free even though they were told it wouldn't work or it wouldn't hold. You learn REAL quick that you do NOT do a 'patch job'; instead you tell 'em to take it somewhere else.
QFMFT!!
wow way to make a cool thread turn into a discussion of who's got the bigger intellectual kielbasa.
