Evidently electronic voting is very easy to manipulate. An article on this issue from the NY Times.
Is this the real issue of this years election?
Evidently electronic voting is very easy to manipulate. An article on this issue from the NY Times.
Is this the real issue of this years election?
It should be. I say give me a traceable paper ballot or give me death!
At least open-source the e-voting machines...
IT was the real issue of at least the last two elections. If you look at the oversight and control of an e-voting machine vs a slot machine, it's amazing. I have a bookmark somewhere....
While I much prefer a paper trail to a phantom string of electrons, paper trails don't prevent election fraud.
Case in point, a previous governor here in the state of Maryland. Many dead and non existent people voted for him. Precints had +100% turnout and other entertaining foibles. My dead grandfather was one of those positively identified as voting for this governor.
The case against this governor for election fraud was effectively dismissed in court by the judge prohibiting any and all evidence of voter fraud from being presented.
A paper trail most distinctly did not prevent votor fraud.
foxtrapper wrote: While I much prefer a paper trail to a phantom string of electrons, paper trails don't prevent election fraud.
No but they make it much more difficult. Not difficult enough to keep some E36 M3sack politician from getting away with it...but WAY more difficult.
No, they don't. But they're better. There's a lot of problems with the e-voting machines, and paper trails are just one of them. But as for the paper trails, what you want is two receipts--one for the voter confirming their vote, so they can review who they just voted for, and another for backup, so it can be checked if there's any question. Both paper receipts should match, of course, But that's just the start of the problems with the e-voting.
Here's that link I mentioned: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2006/03/16/GR2006031600213.html
It's pretty scary to me.
Think about it...the last two elections have been so close as almost require legal intervention. What better way to have the guy you want in there? It could go either way! Essentially you can install whoever you want to be President.
Yeah, that's a problem. That's why D's don't want valid identification to be required at the voting booth. How could FT's dead grandfather vote if he needed ID? Makes it harder.
We need to install, starting at the lowest level we can like state or county where we have more say, laws making voter fraud a felony. I say 10 years manditory prison should do it, and that needs to be severely enforced. It'll never happen, because voter fraud is now institutionalized. Instead, we get laws like Texas had making possession of a milk crate a felony. I think they finally repealed that one and reduced it to a misdemeanor, but seriously, what is more damaging to our society? Possessing a milk crate or a politician fraudulantly taking life, death, and taxing (theiving) power from you?
Wow, we made it almost through a whole page before it was all the Democrats fault.
Geez, what do you think about the head of Diebold saying he would deliver Ohio to the Republicans? Or the fact that in the overwhelming majority of irregularities, it benefitted the Republican party--including counties that had NEVER voted Republican before.
You can try to paint this as a partisan thing if you want, but it's really a democracy thing. E-voting machines as they exist today are a bad idea, poorly implemented.
Funny thing is, it's the geeks who first stepped up and said "there's big problems here".. the same people that are usually enamored by any shiny new technology.
It's a way of life in Louisiana.
foxtrapper wrote: While I much prefer a paper trail to a phantom string of electrons, paper trails don't prevent election fraud. Case in point, a previous governor here in the state of Maryland. Many dead and non existent people voted for him. Precints had +100% turnout and other entertaining foibles. My dead grandfather was one of those positively identified as voting for this governor. The case against this governor for election fraud was effectively dismissed in court by the judge prohibiting any and all evidence of voter fraud from being presented. A paper trail most distinctly did not prevent votor fraud.
There are three reasons why I refuse to live in Maryland. This is one reason.
Front bumper license plates are the second reason.
I'm also offended by squirrels and Maryland has a lot of them.
Perhaps the paper trail did not prevent it, but did it not make it easier to prove?
Tim Baxter wrote: Wow, we made it almost through a whole page before it was all the Democrats fault.
Shoot, they had the whole thing down to a science way back when. Check out the Daley Chicago vote machine sometime.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Legalissues/lm23.cfm
Funny thing: he started as a Republican. Guess they weren't corrupt enough. Sure, there's been Republican voter fraud but nothing like the scale of the Democratic machine. 
I'm fully aware of the Daley machine, as well as the Pendergast machine here in KC and the Longs down in Louisiana.
But saying electronic voting fraud is OK because some long dead guys had some really corrupt local machines running is just silly. If nothing else, the scale is completely different.
With the current problems in e-voting, it's going to come down to which side got to the machine last, or got in deeper. As it currently stands, any schlub with just a little know-how can completely rig an election, and be undetectable.
Again, this isn't a partisan issue. It's a democracy issue.
It's not just a democracy issue, it's a greed issue which knows no national or political party boundaries. Russia has had some whopper voter fraud cases and just about every one of the tinpot dictators down in africa has stuffed ballot boxes at one time or another. IIRC Idi Amin actually had the results of one election thrown out and substituted his own, he made no bones about it at all. Google any country or political party you want with 'vote fraud' behind it and see what shows up.
And BTW: at no time did I say vote fraud was OK. I was merely trying to inject a bit of levity. Or humour, if you will. I suppose I'm going to have to go all Hess with the smileys to get the point across. Like this: 
All politicians be scurvy scallawags that need ta be made ta walk the plank or dance by the neck from the yard arm. Send 'em all ta Davey Jones' locker!
A pirates life for me!
Aye.
Is anyone else tempted to take in a thumb drive and "vote" in a creative fashion?
I won't do it. Esp because I just talked about it on the internet but come on?! It's so easy. I know plenty of tech guys who could have Mickey Mouse elected in stated with E-voting machines.
Democrat or Republican really doesn't matter.
The conspiracy theorist in me says that this is in place so the election can be decided no matter that pesky thing called public opinion.
Written almost exactly two years ago by Robert F Kennedy Jr in Rolling Stone Magazine.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11717105/robert_f_kennedy_jr__will_the_next_election_be_hacked
It has left me with zero faith in the system, especially in my home state of Ohio.
Honestly, I think that something will actually get done when some geek decides to show the inadequacies of the system and decides to make all of California vote for the Flying Spaghetti Monster or something. Until then, it'll just be the two parties flinging poo at each other, as usual.
Tim Baxter wrote: ...and the Longs down in Louisiana.
I knew Anette Long, she was a niece of Huey. She was a New Orleans Prosecutor. She was one crazy chick.
That's some scarry stuff from RFK, Jr., coming from a family that built its wealth empire based on running illegal whiskey during Prohibition. Kinda makes up for hanging chad and disenfranchising the military vote.
The whole thing needs to be fixed, and I just don't see it happening. I think you're right, Tim, and until we see the FSM voted governor of the PRC, no one will complain. And we won't see that either, because if someone hacks the system to that extent, it will be covered up and we'll never hear about it.
If we do see the FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster) become the governor of PRC (Peoples Republic of Calif.) there will quickly be an investigation into voter fraud.
I suspect that investigation will then reveal the "real" (and previously intended) candidate.
It's a damn good thing we have our huge military so that we can bring American Democracy to the world.
Which brings us back to the paper trail. Without one, there's no way to know who the original vote was cast for. FSM FTW, QED.
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