In reply to Daylan C :

He seemed surprised, I look like every other tourist here, I rolled out of the Jeep and waddled my ass up to the meter. 

TIL that there was a car company called Turner Sports Cars. They were founded by Jack Turner, who had a heart attack (but did not die) in 1966.

My grandad was Jack Turner, and he also had a heart attack in 1966 but unfortunately did not make it. Obviously different people, but now I want a Turner.

In reply to Appleseed :

Papaya juice or meat tenderizer is just the ticket for jellyfish or insect stings.  Papain is a protease, the venom is a protein, so when you put it on the sting, it destroys the venom.  Enzymes are the bomb yo

Today I didn't learn, but was reminded that Average White Band are not from Detroit or Philadelphia or wherever else you always thought they were.  They're from Dundee, Scotland.

TIL (wow, 2 things in one day!) that when I don't put on hair gel, my gray/white hairs are much more noticeable. They usually blend in pretty well since I'm blonde and usually have hair gel in, which darkens everything just enough that it more or less completely hides any white/gray hairs. But I ran out, so went without it today, and really noticed them when I went in the bathroom at work.

In reply to Toebra :

Dang. I was hoping it was a super solution to getting cat E36 M3 stains out of carpet.

mtn said:

TIL that there was a car company called Turner Sports Cars. They were founded by Jack Turner, who had a heart attack (but did not die) in 1966.

 

My grandad was Jack Turner, and he also had a heart attack in 1966 but unfortunately did not make it. Obviously different people, but now I want a Turner.

I've had the pleasure of working on one.  First friend that owned it let his son drive it in a drivers school and he rolled it.  I fixed the rear suspension design and painted the car.  The owner said the car was evil and he couldn't touch the throttle in a corner.  The car would snap spin. It was Ford 1500 powered, made a ton of HP and only weighed 1450lbs.  I fix the binding suspension and he knocked 20 seconds off his lap times at Sebring.

He sold it to another friend. His name, Mark Turner.  Mark ended up bicycling the car and sliding on its side in turn 15-16 at Sebring IIRC.  The car slid on its drivers door.  We fixed the fiberglass damage and I painted it..again.  He sold the car to someone in the midwest a couple years ago.

There were only about 750 of them built over 10 years or so.  If you see one that is silver with a pair of 6" black stripes on it you will find my DNA on it somewhere.

In reply to mtn :

This is me in the Turner I owned and raced from 1979 til 1983. Most economical competitive racecar ever, I wish I had kept it, but I wanted to go faster

I dug this off the web from his ad when he was selling it.  What engine did yours have?  The Ford was kind of the "Big Block"

TIL that using a 10mm die on a 12mm rod takes a really long time to work.

mtn said:

TIL (wow, 2 things in one day!) that when I don't put on hair gel, my gray/white hairs are much more noticeable. They usually blend in pretty well since I'm blonde and usually have hair gel in, which darkens everything just enough that it more or less completely hides any white/gray hairs. But I ran out, so went without it today, and really noticed them when I went in the bathroom at work.

I didn't realize how bald I'm getting until today.    I'm just going to have a little island of hair on the front of my head.

TIL that they still have Fudruckers in Texas. 

In reply to Woody :

I hope they keep them there.

In reply to mtn :

Back around 2002 or so, someone  tried to get me to buy a Turner as a cheap way to get into vintage racing (he had three for sale), but I was really focused on Formula Fords at the time, so I passed.

Then in 2015, I looked at this car for another GRM'er from out of state who was looking for a vintage race car.

He chose to pass on it, and to this day I still kick myself for not buying it for myself, though I didn't really have the space for it at the time. There were actually two of them in the shop that day (different place), but they were most likely two of the three I had seen a decade earlier.

And there was another at Lime Rock last month, that has never been a race car. I'm kind of shocked that, with so few produced, I've seen at least four of them in person.

I didn’t really like Turners in 2002, but I really like Turners now. 

In reply to jgrewe :

Mine was a BMC powered car. Late cars, like the others pictured were mostly Ford, but a few still got BMC. A few also got Coventry Climax's, but I have never seen one. The last one posted by Woody belonged from new until his death to the late Steve Agins, who was one of my customers in the early/mid 1980s. I drove that one on the street several times with a strong 1700cc crossflow. Really fun.

Thanks for the info everyone! My mom is now super interested in these, as is my dad - and dad, having owned an MGB, Opel GT, Austin Healey, E30, etc., is shocked he's never heard of this company. I wonder how many more are out there, but probably none started by someone with the same name as my grandpa!* I want one - just for street use. Or at least a keychain. 

*Supposedly my great grandfather on my dads side was drawing up business plans in the teens/20's to possibly start a car company, sales first and then possibly go into production, but it never came to fruition.

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to jgrewe :

Mine was a BMC powered car. Late cars, like the others pictured were mostly Ford, but a few still got BMC. A few also got Coventry Climax's, but I have never seen one. The last one posted by Woody belonged from new until his death to the late Steve Agins, who was one of my customers in the early/mid 1980s. I drove that one on the street several times with a strong 1700cc crossflow. Really fun.

The race car that I posted was BMC powered. I wish I could see the chassis number...

In reply to TurnerX19 :

Not sure if you can read this or not, but this was on the cars that I saw at Lime Rock (I was fighting the sun for a good photo).

In reply to mtn :

There was an article on Turners in the December 2014 issue of Hemmings Sports and Exotics

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/sporting-proposition-turner-sports-mk-1/

Postwar Britain was filled with enthusiasts eager to get back to the fun of racing after the dark days of the war. Combining well-developed powertrains from major manufacturers with bodywork and chassis of their own design, part of a tradition that was sparked by the cheap and cheerful Austin Seven of the 1930s, these independent builders created a multitude of affordable, nimble sports cars with character.

By the late 1950s, what had been a movement had become a boom. Colin Chapman had gone from building trials specials to the series-production Lotus Seven; in Bexhill-on-Sea, Frank Nichols was producing BMC- and Coventry Climax-powered Elva Couriers; Fairthorpe Cars, founded by Air Vice Marshal Donald Bennett, was relying on Climax and Triumph engines for its Electron sports racer.

Most of these hand-built cars showed their lack of development, and few of their builders–Lotus, Elva and Fairthorpe among them–survived their teething pains to stick around for more than a couple of years, and produce more than a handful of cars. Turner Sports Cars was one of those exceptions, too, arriving on the scene earlier than most, and winning a strong following that kept the company humming for more than a decade.

Jack Turner was probably more qualified than most to produce a successful sports car. Born in the Welsh market town of Abergavenny in 1916, he began apprenticing with an engineering firm at the age of 15. He went to work for Gloster Aircraft, the company that built the Hawker Hurricane, one of the heroes of the Battle of Britain, as well as the Gloster Meteor, the Allies’ only operational jet fighter during World War II.

At the end of the war, Turner set up shop in Wolverhampton in Britain’s West Midlands, where he hung out his engineering shingle and subcontracted his services to Austin. He also pursued his interest in motorsports, competing in sprints and hillclimbs in a succession of MGs. Inevitably, he designed and built his own MG K3-based single-seater, which he raced with some success until retiring from the sport at the age of 37.

But he wasn’t done with racing. Experience had taught him that there was room in the market for another sports racer, one based on robust, proven components. He built a prototype, combining a frame fabricated from large-diameter steel tubing, rack-and-pinion steering from the Morris Minor (a favorite of specials builders everywhere), an aluminum body and a Vauxhall four-cylinder engine. The first Turners won the favor of an early patron, John Webb, heir to his family’s lead-crystal glass business, as well as Ken Rose, the son of Lea-Francis designer Hugh Rose.

Building race cars wasn’t going to pay the bills, but Turner recognized that when MG halted production of its T-series in favor of the new MGA, it had created a gap in the market for a small, affordable car that was competent on both the track and the street. He responded by building his first series-production car, the Turner 803 of 1954. It was largely based on Austin’s bread-and-butter A30 sedan, using that car’s 803-cc inline four, four-speed gearbox, front suspension and live rear axle. The chassis was his own design, a tubular steel affair that stopped short of the rear axle, which was suspended by trailing arms and torsion bars. Turner again relied on the Minor’s rack-and-pinion steering. Bodies were fiberglass, supported by an internal steel tub.

Turner assumed that his little enterprise was well beneath the notice of a major manufacturer like BMC, and sought his Austin components directly from the maker. How could he have known that the BMC would be salivating over the same slice of the market pie, with Donald Healey’s Austin-powered Sprite already on the drawing boards? Turner was forced to buy his parts over the counter, like everybody else, a hurdle that added about £100–a hefty 25 percent–to the price of the 803. (In the U.K. only, the Turner was available as a kit, allowing the owner/builder to avoid the pain of a 60-percent Purchase Tax.)

Russell Filby, the keeper of the authoritative Turner Sports Cars Register (www.turnersportscars.co.uk), maintains that it was in fact the Turner that inspired BMC to build the Sprite. “Jack Turner always claimed that Donald Healey realized that Turner had hit a niche market, and as the Turner was using Austin components, he had a very good look at a car which was an influence in the conception of the A-H Sprite,” Russell says. “Austin would not supply Turner directly, so Jack Turner had to obtain all Austin parts via the dealer network [Charles Clark Ltd. in Wolverhampton]. This, in turn, ensured the Sprite could be more competitively priced, as Turner could not obtain the parts at a ‘works’ cost without the dealer markup.”

Turner persevered. In 1956, the 803 morphed into the 950, when Austin introduced the A35 sedan and its 948-cc A-series engine. In 1959, one year after the introduction of the Austin-Healey Sprite, the Turner was re-launched as the much-improved 950 Sports Mk 1, surrounding the 948 with an upgraded chassis and an all-new body, marked by a wide grille and forward-hinged doors. More power could be had, either through the fitting of an Alexander crossflow cylinder head (creating an Alexander-Turner), or the substitution of a 70-hp, 75-hp or 95-hp Coventry Climax four for the cast-iron BMC unit.

“Back in the day, they were screamers. They were something,” recalls Jay Carano, a former Turner mechanic who happens to be deeply familiar not just with Turners, but with the very car on these pages, a pristine 1960 example that belongs to Roy and Peg Ivey. Not only did he carry out its meticulous, seven-year restoration, doing everything but the paintwork, but he was a mechanic with Tri-City Sports Cars of Massillon, Ohio, where the car, chassis number 60-413, was sold new 54 years ago.

According to Jay, Jack Turner’s activities had come to the attention of Dale Smith, who had opened Tri-City to serve the sports-car-mad population of the Akron-Canton-Massillon triangle. Smith had been campaigning an MG TD in the SCCA’s H-Production class, which is where he got his first look at a Turner 803. He was impressed, and wrote to Turner to see if he might be able to sell the cars through his dealership. Heck, Jack Turner replied, he could have the whole U.S. distributorship, with the exception of Florida, if he wanted. Did he? He did.

Jay, whose first visit to Tri-City came when he was buying parts to help a friend repair a TR3, well recalls his first impression of the Turner. “I didn’t really care for the 950s, but the Mk Is and IIs, they’re beautiful,” he enthuses. “The fit and the finish of the Turner weren’t quite up to snuff with the production cars of the day, but that’s the only [criticism]. The appeal to the British car crowd was the fact that, thanks to their fiberglass bodies, they were 200 pounds lighter than a Sprite, which was the main competition in H Production.”

Of the approximately 670 Turners constructed, Jay estimates that no more than 60, and possibly fewer, were sold through Tri-City. Most of these were destined to spend most of their time on a race track, with a predictably high attrition rate. The Turner Sports Car Register reckons that the number still in existence is somewhere around 300, with a good number of those used for vintage racing today. In fact, it’s the vintage racing community that’s most likely to have heard of Turners; otherwise, whatever notice they achieved in the U.S. has faded away.

Roy Ivey knew nothing about Turner or his company when he went shopping for a sports car two years ago. He was looking for something Italian, possibly a Fiat-based special like a Stanguellini or a Cisitalia. But when he stumbled across 60-413, he was smitten. “To this day, I don’t know what I clicked to find it, but I found it,” he says. It was for sale at a specialty dealer in Pittsburgh.

What made Roy decide to buy it? “I liked it,” he explains, simply. “In the ad for the car, it said, ‘If you like British sports cars like we do, here’s a chance to buy a piece of British history.’ The looks were right, and the condition was fabulous. Couldn’t turn it down.” Roy does indeed love British sports cars, having owned an MGB and an MGB/GT, as well as a 1953 R-Type Bentley.

Roy made the connection with the restorer when he wrote to Russell at the Turner Sports Register to buy a copy of the club’s calendar, and ended up sending Russell a photo of the car. “He knew the car. He said, ‘This is the best Turner you could have bought,'” Roy says. “I believe it is.” “I tried to make it as correct as I possibly could,” Jay says. “We always used to joke that there were no two Turners alike, although that wasn’t really the truth.” He finished the car in 1999, and it passed through one, or possibly two, more owners before arriving at the dealer.

The Turner is rare enough in the U.S. that Roy has never seen another; in fact, he’s made out a little brochure to hand out at car shows, to answer the questions most commonly asked about the car.

Still, he generously offered me a turn behind the wheel of his treasure. Comparisons with the Sprite/Midget twins are apt; the short wheelbase makes for a relatively short cockpit, and footroom is at a premium, with all pedals located to the left of the steering column. The twin-carb, A-Series four starts on the button and idles sweetly. First gear on the “smooth case” BMC gearbox is unsynchronized, but the four-speed has a pleasant, direct action, and progress feels brisk, if not fast. Fifty-two horsepower doesn’t sound like much, and it’s not, but at least the fiberglass body keeps the curb weight to a feathery 1,175 pounds. It’s 200 pounds less than a Spridget, and it feels it.

It’s not only lighter than its rival, but lower, as well. Roy’s car rides on the optional 13-inch wire wheels, just like the three Mk 1s the factory built for privateers to run in the Sebring 4 Hours in 1960, rather than the standard-issue 15-inch wheels, giving it a purposeful stance and a 4-inch ground clearance. Roadholding was the car’s forte, and in our limited test drive, the chassis is indeed well-behaved.

Whether the original builders or Jay’s skills are the reason, the Turner feels tight, and exhibits no squeaks or rattles. Steering is sharp, as you might expect, and the brakes are reassuringly powerful. The Turner has an alternate rear axle ratio that, reportedly, makes it capable of a 94 MPH top speed–but “not with Peg in it,” Roy laughs.

Turner built about 160 Mk Is, followed by 150 Mk 2s and 90 Mk 3s–both of which had very little BMC content–before production ended and the company was dissolved in 1966; there were also 10 tantalizing examples of a Ford Kent-powered 2+2 GT. A combination of factors led to the closing, primarily the failure of a California client to pay for eight cars that Turner delivered–a big blow to such a small company–and a serious health problem that landed Jack Turner in the hospital.

Jack Turner passed away in March 2011, living long enough to see his creations enjoy a renaissance in vintage race events around the world. Cars like Roy’s rare Mk 1 aside, the race track is still the most likely place to go if you hope to catch a glimpse of a Turner.

1960 Turner Sports Mk 1
Owner’s Story

I ‘ve put about 1,800 miles on the car in two years. We don’t have a trailer. I drove it over in the rain to the EURO [Auto Festival in Greer, South Carolina], it stopped raining, I took the top down,

I drove it home in the rain with the top up. I didn’t put the left sidecurtain in because I like to be able to see out a little bit. It was fine. But then, when I got it home, I cleaned it up like you wouldn’t believe. I take the wheels off to clean them.

I love it, frankly. I enjoy driving it and having people remark about it. It’s not a luxury wagon by any means; you’re kind of contorted with all the pedals to the left of the steering column, so it’s kind of interesting to get used to where the clutch is. But I love to drive it, I really do. It’s just fun.

We’ve taken several trips of 100 miles. I think 100 miles is the most we’ve done in a day. One hundred miles makes my old bones pretty happy to get out and walk again! -Roy Ivey

What to Pay
1960 Turner Sports Mk I
Low $16,200
Average $21,000
High $36,800

Club Scene
Turner Register
Russell Filby (Registrar)
10 Wyatts Close
Nailsea, BS48 2JH
North Somerset
United Kingdom
www.turnersportscars.co.uk

Pros & Cons

Pros
+ Pretty, well-balanced design
+ Mechanical parts are readily available
+ A wonderful piece of British sports car history

Cons
– Unmodified road cars are hard to find
– Creature comforts are extremely limited
– Pedal arrangement is a challenge

TURNER 1960 Sports Mk 1

Specifications

ENGINE
Type: BMC A-series four-cylinder, cast-iron block and head
Displacement: 948 cc (57.8-cu.in.)
Bore x stroke: 2.478 x 3.00 inches
Compression ratio: 8.3:1 (originally, higher now)
Horsepower @ RPM: 52 @ 4,800 (estimated)
Torque @ RPM: 50-lb.ft. @ 2,000
Valvetrain: Overhead valve, pushrods and rocker arms
Main bearings: Three
Fuel system: Mechanical engine driven pump, two SU carburetors, 1 1/4-inch diameter
Lubrication system: Full pressure
Electrical system: 12-volt, Lucas components
Exhaust system: Fabricated single pipe with muffler

TRANSMISSION
Type: Smooth case four-speed, synchros in 2nd, 3rd, 4th
Ratios: 1st: 3.63:1 straight cut
2nd: 2.37:1
3rd: 1.41:1
4th: 1.00:1
Reverse: 4.66:1
Clutch: 6 1/4-inch diameter

DIFFERENTIAL
Type: Open (non-locking)
Ratio: 4.55:1 (original, changed during restoration)

STEERING
Type: Narrowed rack and pinion
Ratio: N/A
Turns, lock-to-lock: 2 1/4
Turning circle: N/A

BRAKES
Type: Hydraulic
Front/Rear: Disc/drum

CHASSIS & BODY
Construction: Fiberglass body on tubular steel frame
Body style: Roadster
Layout: Front engine, rear-wheel drive

SUSPENSION
Front: Coil springs, Armstrong lever shocks
Rear: Torsion bars and hydraulic shocks

WHEELS & TIRES
Wheels: 13 x 4-inch center lock, 60-spoke wire wheels
Tires: 155HR13

WEIGHTS & MEASURES
Wheelbase: 80.5 inches
Overall length: 138 inches
Overall width: 54 inches
Overall height: 43 inches (with top down)
Front track: 45.5 inches
Rear track: 44.75 inches
Curb weight: 1,175 pounds (50/50 weight distribution)

CAPACITIES
Crankcase: 9.4 pints
Cooling system: 9.6 pints
Fuel tank: 7.5 gallons
Transmission: 3.25 pints
Rear axle: 2.1 pints

CALCULATED DATA
Hp per liter: 49.3
Weight per hp: 22.6 pounds
Weight per cu.in.: 20.3 pounds

PERFORMANCE
0-60 MPH: 18.3 seconds
1/4-mile ET: 21.8 seconds @ 61MPH
Top speed: 94 MPH

PRICE
Cost new: 550 Pounds Sterling

In reply to Woody :

I never knew the chassis number on my Turner, the tag was gone when I bought it, an already race prepped car.

An interesting side note on Bill's car, the previous owner named his son Turner.

TIL that Hollywood sex cult thing that was in the news called NXIVM is pronounced "nexium".  When that story first came out I was going crazy(er) trying to figure out what the hell that was supposed to be an acronym for...

In reply to Don49 :

I had forgotten that part, thanks Don TIL something I had forgotten!

TIL that Patrick is coming back from the Challenge with twice as many transmissions for me as I was expecting.

Also remembered.

Maybe not "Today I Learned" but maybe "Today had an epiphany that really should have been painfully obvious".

The Doors' "Riders on the Storm" has a kind of Western-y feel because it's meant to evoke "Ghost Riders in the Sky".

I think.  I makes sense to me, at least.  Jim Morrison was kind of artfully vague and he was surrounded by some great musical talent.

Edit because my brain just refuses to shut up when there is a search engine available