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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » UK people arrested for burning Koran

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Sept. 24, 2010 4:24 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

MrJoshua wrote:

Jensenman wrote:

That's the whole point: if you hate someone enough to do them harm, what difference is the source of the hate? Should beating up someone because they are gay be any worse than beating up an ex-wife because she took you to the cleaners?

I think you will find that the punishment is similar for each of those examples.

It is based on how reasonable your behavior is in each situation. For example-shooting someone who is trying to strangle you is perfectly reasonable. Shooting someone for fun or because they are gay is not. The action was the same, but the motivation turned the action from reasonable to heinous. The problem is that certain courts in certain areas didn't consider those acts heinous so the entire country gets very restrictive laws turning any altercation with anybody any different than you into a hate crime.

That's an excellent point. There have definitely been some 'wink and nod' sentences handed down for truly heinous crimes like the OJ Simpson travesty of justice. Or Emmett Till's death.

The problem with the way hate crime legislation is handled is that it does not get to the core problem as shown in those two examples: manipulating the courts via tortured interpretations of the law to get a certain outcome. It's treating the symptom, not the disease.
Sept. 24, 2010 4:43 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

The problem with hate crimes, criminzation of speech, etc... is that once the precedent is established that the Government can criminalize speech (or apparent motive), then it's only a matter of "current fashion" exactly what speech is criminalized.
Sept. 24, 2010 5:08 p.m. jamscal Dork
1. Treatment of women in the Muslim world.
2. Treatment of criminals.
3. Can we build a "Christian center for Peace" anywhere in Saudia Arabia? Can we build one in Mecca or Medina?
There is a cultural clash here. They have their way of doing things and that's fine, but we also have our way.

Our way says you can criticize religions, and the religions can get all sorts of upset, but can't break any laws to retaliate.

Their way is a bit different.

It's what we do
Sept. 24, 2010 7:26 p.m. captainzib HalfDork
jamscal wrote:
1. Treatment of women in the Muslim world.
2. Treatment of criminals.
3. Can we build a "Christian center for Peace" anywhere in Saudia Arabia? Can we build one in Mecca or Medina?
There is a cultural clash here. They have their way of doing things and that's fine, but we also have our way.

Our way says you can criticize religions, and the religions can get all sorts of upset, but can't break any laws to retaliate.

Their way is a bit different.

It's what we do
1. and 2. Not all of the middle east is as backwards as the rest of the headliners.
1. (I'm typing the #3, why does it keep showing up as 1?) Yes you can. There are a lot of Christians in the middle east. I'm amazed at how many people focus on the minute differences between Christianity, Judaism and Islam, when there are far more similarities. And this argument is kinda funny, because you're basically saying that if we can't do something in a backwards country, that when people immigrate here, we should treat them backwards as well.
Sept. 24, 2010 10:09 p.m. jamscal Dork

Didn't mean to imply they shouldn't build the Islamic Center. If they have the cash and the will, they can go for it.

I realize there are Christians in the Middle East.

But it would probably cause a stir if a large group of American Evangelicals were to set up shop in Saudi Arabia to do what they do.

I think there are MAJOR differences between and even within each of the three religions.

I don't know that I can express my problem exactly. I guess it's this: We have among us idiots who will post vile depictions of the Prophet on Craigslists Rants and Raves: Get over it.

I do believe that 99% of people in the world are just trying to get by peaceably.

But ask Rushdie if it was just a few crazy Muslims who wanted his head or would one of the thousands BURNING HIS BOOK in England have done it given the chance?
Sept. 25, 2010 7:22 a.m. Jensenman SuperDork

The way I understand it (someone sing out if I'm wrong!) is that the Christian God, Jewish Yaweh and Muslim Allah are all considered to be the same deity under different names.

So if all 3 groups profess to believe in the same deity, why would any one trash the others?

Going back to my SB childhood, it was pretty clear that other branches of Christian religion were considered backwards and heretical. Not cool, very judgemental.
Sept. 25, 2010 7:32 a.m. BobOfTheFuture HalfDork

"suspicion of stirring racial hatred, and have since been released on bail"

How odd, Didnt know Islam was a race.
Sept. 25, 2010 1:52 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

Yeah, it always strikes me as strange that anti-Semitism is thought of as racism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_antisemitism

Here's the weird part: I knew a girl in high school who was Jewish, she was blonde and blue eyed.
Sept. 25, 2010 2:57 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

Your article answers your question. For the past couple hundred years, Jews have been thought of as a race, not as just a religious choice... and the mainstream anti-Semitism has been primarily overtly based on the racial and societal aspects, not the religious ones.

The polar opposite appears true for anti-Christian and anti-Muslim discrimination.

But since being Jewish is not limited to those considered racially Jewish, a blond-hair blue-eyed Jewish woman really couldn't be considered any more unusual than a black Muslim.

Bill
Sept. 25, 2010 3:01 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

I just burned a stack of Roundel, Panorama, Popular Science and there might have been a few old Korans in there too. Whatever was in the rack next to the crapper with a soft cover and older than 2yrs.
Sept. 25, 2010 3:28 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Worthy of note: There were no GRMs in there. Burning them is a sacrilege.
Sept. 25, 2010 4:00 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Worthy of note: There were no GRMs in there. Burning them is a sacrilege.

Whew! Good thing. I was getting all ramped up for a Jihad!
Sept. 25, 2010 6:00 p.m. z31maniac SuperDork

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Worthy of note: There were no GRMs in there. Burning them is a sacrilege.

You're damn right sonny gem!
Sept. 25, 2010 6:07 p.m. Drewsifer HalfDork

Jensenman wrote:

The way I understand it (someone sing out if I'm wrong!) is that the Christian God, Jewish Yaweh and Muslim Allah are all considered to be the same deity under different names.

So if all 3 groups profess to believe in the same deity, why would any one trash the others?

Going back to my SB childhood, it was pretty clear that other branches of Christian religion were considered backwards and heretical. Not cool, very judgemental.

That was my understanding too. And as one of my interpreters explained it to me, the Koran actually says not the kill Children of the Book. Which means Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
Sept. 25, 2010 8:35 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

So why then are they all killing each other? Couldn't be just plain old human cussedness, oh no.

And anybody who burns a GRM is on my E36 M3 list, too. I'll pull up to your house with open rotary headers and a great big glue trap.
Sept. 25, 2010 10:56 p.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

Jensenman wrote:

So why then are they all killing each other? Couldn't be just plain old human cussedness, oh no.

And anybody who burns a GRM is on my E36 M3 list, too. I'll pull up to your house with open rotary headers and a great big glue trap.

Isn't GRM the official book for the "Church of the Holy Cone"?

It just dawned on me what we car fanatics could do if we labeled our disease as religion. Noise complaints? Too bad, its our religious right to have a race track (place of prayer)!
Sept. 26, 2010 5:00 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

Strangely enough, I am an ordained deacon in the Church of the Great Outdoors.

http://www.thechurchofthegreatoutdoors.com/
Sept. 26, 2010 5:37 p.m. BobOfTheFuture HalfDork

Church of the Holy Cone
Sept. 26, 2010 10:44 p.m. Luke SuperDork

^^^I'd forgotten all about that. Some genuinely funny stuff, there.

"And the followers of Lucas shall be cast into the Darkness."

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