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  Nov. 18, 2011 7:38 p.m. EricM SuperDork

  in 1988 Indonesia threatened to close the Lombok Straights (the only place we can get our subs through without them surfacing or driving a long long way around.
  

  I was US Navy but assigned to the Forward spotting officer for the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit. I was launched form the USS New Orleans at 4 am in a CH 53E. The forward spotting officer, a Marine Gunnery Sargent, 6 other marines and myself. We were the forward deployed unit and I was the Tactical Environment specialist (Then an AG3, left as an AG2 (AW)).

  We did all the beach work up (surf height, Pressure altitude, Density altitude, laser and radar predictions) and sent the information back to the ship using the radioman's radio plugged into my very heavy "portable" computer.
  

  Then the local militia showed up. The had some small arms, and we had M249 Machine guns. The firefight lasted a short time, we suffered zero casualties, they got their asses kicked. Unfortunately for them, and for my psyche even to this day, most of the people in the group we encountered were young and mostly untrained. (like 13 or 14 years old kind of young) So that part sucked, I was "that geeky weather kid" as the marines called me, and not much of a fighter but I used my M14 as I was (some what) trained to do....

  They left the straight open for shipping traffic and we were replaced by the Australian Army to "watch over" the straights.

  So, yup, we keep an eye on that region. It is both strategic in that it controls shipping, and there is a strong communist (New People's Army) and Violent Muslim groups (Moro Islamic Liberation Front) presence there. Australia would love our help in making sure nothing major happens in that region.

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  Nov. 18, 2011 7:46 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

  EricM wrote:

  in 1988 Indonesia threatened to close the Lombok Straights (the only place we can get our subs through without them surfacing or driving a long long way around.
  

  I was US Navy but assigned to the Forward spotting officer for the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit. I was launched form the USS New Orleans at 4 am in a CH 53E. The forward spotting officer, a Marine Gunnery Sargent, 6 other marines and myself. We were the forward deployed unit and I was the Tactical Environment specialist (Then an AG3, left as an AG2 (AW)).

  We did all the beach work up (surf height, Pressure altitude, Density altitude, laser and radar predictions) and sent the information back to the ship using the radioman's radio plugged into my very heavy "portable" computer.
  

  Then the local militia showed up. The had some small arms, and we had M249 Machine guns. The firefight lasted a short time, we suffered zero casualties, they got their asses kicked. Unfortunately for them, and for my psyche even to this day, most of the people in the group we encountered were young and mostly untrained. (like 13 or 14 years old kind of young) So that part sucked, I was "that geeky weather kid" as the marines called me, and not much of a fighter but I used my M14 as I was (some what) trained to do....

  They left the straight open for shipping traffic and we were replaced by the Australian Army to "watch over" the straights.

  So, yup, we keep an eye on that region. It is both strategic in that it controls shipping, and there is a strong communist (New People's Army) and Violent Muslim groups (Moro Islamic Liberation Front) presence there. Australia would love our help in making sure nothing major happens in that region.

  Did they give you an M14 just to berkeley with you? If M249s were involved it was the 80's at the earliest and if you were "the geeky weather kid" and not there as a marksman, AND you had to carry some computer with you... why on earth would you be using an m14 variant and not a M16 or M4?

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 7:57 p.m. EricM SuperDork

  MG_Bryan wrote:

  EricM wrote:

  in 1988 Indonesia threatened to close the Lombok Straights (the only place we can get our subs through without them surfacing or driving a long long way around.
  

  I was US Navy but assigned to the Forward spotting officer for the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit. I was launched form the USS New Orleans at 4 am in a CH 53E. The forward spotting officer, a Marine Gunnery Sargent, 6 other marines and myself. We were the forward deployed unit and I was the Tactical Environment specialist (Then an AG3, left as an AG2 (AW)).

  We did all the beach work up (surf height, Pressure altitude, Density altitude, laser and radar predictions) and sent the information back to the ship using the radioman's radio plugged into my very heavy "portable" computer.
  

  Then the local militia showed up. The had some small arms, and we had M249 Machine guns. The firefight lasted a short time, we suffered zero casualties, they got their asses kicked. Unfortunately for them, and for my psyche even to this day, most of the people in the group we encountered were young and mostly untrained. (like 13 or 14 years old kind of young) So that part sucked, I was "that geeky weather kid" as the marines called me, and not much of a fighter but I used my M14 as I was (some what) trained to do....

  They left the straight open for shipping traffic and we were replaced by the Australian Army to "watch over" the straights.

  So, yup, we keep an eye on that region. It is both strategic in that it controls shipping, and there is a strong communist (New People's Army) and Violent Muslim groups (Moro Islamic Liberation Front) presence there. Australia would love our help in making sure nothing major happens in that region.

  Did they give you an M14 just to berkeley with you? If M249s were involved it was the 80's at the earliest and if you were "the geeky weather kid" and not there as a marksman, AND you had to carry some computer with you... why on earth would you be using an m14 variant and not a M16 or M4?

  That was the only weapon other than the Colt 1911A on my hip, that I was qualified to carry. I drew my weapon from the ship's Armory. and the USS New Orleans had M14, Shotguns,and M1911A. I qualified on the M14 about 4 months earlier so I could stand watch. So yeah, I had a heavy computer (Acid-lead batteries) an M14, a 45, Plus my web gear ( we fast roped out of the helicopter it didn't land on the beach) an old school flack jacket and my extra ammo. All that E36 M3 was heavy.

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 8:06 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

  EricM wrote:

  MG_Bryan wrote:

  EricM wrote:

  in 1988 Indonesia threatened to close the Lombok Straights (the only place we can get our subs through without them surfacing or driving a long long way around.
  

  I was US Navy but assigned to the Forward spotting officer for the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit. I was launched form the USS New Orleans at 4 am in a CH 53E. The forward spotting officer, a Marine Gunnery Sargent, 6 other marines and myself. We were the forward deployed unit and I was the Tactical Environment specialist (Then an AG3, left as an AG2 (AW)).

  We did all the beach work up (surf height, Pressure altitude, Density altitude, laser and radar predictions) and sent the information back to the ship using the radioman's radio plugged into my very heavy "portable" computer.
  

  Then the local militia showed up. The had some small arms, and we had M249 Machine guns. The firefight lasted a short time, we suffered zero casualties, they got their asses kicked. Unfortunately for them, and for my psyche even to this day, most of the people in the group we encountered were young and mostly untrained. (like 13 or 14 years old kind of young) So that part sucked, I was "that geeky weather kid" as the marines called me, and not much of a fighter but I used my M14 as I was (some what) trained to do....

  They left the straight open for shipping traffic and we were replaced by the Australian Army to "watch over" the straights.

  So, yup, we keep an eye on that region. It is both strategic in that it controls shipping, and there is a strong communist (New People's Army) and Violent Muslim groups (Moro Islamic Liberation Front) presence there. Australia would love our help in making sure nothing major happens in that region.

  Did they give you an M14 just to berkeley with you? If M249s were involved it was the 80's at the earliest and if you were "the geeky weather kid" and not there as a marksman, AND you had to carry some computer with you... why on earth would you be using an m14 variant and not a M16 or M4?

  That was the only weapon other than the Colt 1911A on my hip, that I was qualified to carry. I drew my weapon from the ship's Armory. and the USS New Orleans had M14, Shotguns,and M1911A. I qualified on the M14 about 4 months earlier so I could stand watch. So yeah, I had a heavy computer (Acid-lead batteries) an M14, a 45, Plus my web gear ( we fast roped out of the helicopter it didn't land on the beach) an old school flack jacket and my extra ammo. All that E36 M3 was heavy.

  What year was this, out of curiosity?

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 8:11 p.m. EricM SuperDork

  MG_Bryan wrote:

  What year was this, out of curiosity?

  1988 (that is in the first sentence of the original post )

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 8:17 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

  EricM wrote:

  MG_Bryan wrote:

  What year was this, out of curiosity?

  1988 (that is in the first sentence of the original post )

  Apparently my reading comprehension isn't good tonight. I didn't realize the Navy was that bassakwards as to not have... you know... the standard issue rifle for everyone.

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 9:06 p.m. Mental SuperDork

  DirtyBird222 wrote:

  two quarters of what? :)

  Two $.25 pieces. Coins. Tap them together. Hold one in the palm of your hand, and tap the edge of the other against it. Get used to that sound.

  Dr. Hess wrote: I THINK: It's pre-positioning. Like Diego Garcia. I expect you active mil doodes to continue to deny it's existence. I ain't a mil doode. Anyone else can google it or there's probably a wiki for interesting but always something wrong info. You can't dump 30K troops on Diego. Where else you going to put that many? Bahrain would be A BIT too obvious. Saudi won't take them (can't have infidels [that would be us] touching holy Saudi soil). So, Oz is as good a staging area as any. Now, the question is: Why? Should I revive my "The Next War" thread? It's still valid. Other options could be some E36 M3 hole in Africa (pick one), the Arabian Peninsula (not Saudi), etc. We ain't gonna invade China, Viet Nam (tried that once under a different DEMOCRAT president, didn't work out too well,) or anyone else currently buying our crap paper and selling us trinkets.

  Doc I love ya, but prepositioning of what?

  The Air Force has never, in it's entire history been as small as it is now. Next year this will be true again. By 2012 the USAF have to be at less than 330,000. They just booted 400 plus Captains and Majors with 9-15 years in service

  The Army is sub-600,000; The Marines are at 202,000 and the Navy at just under 330,00.

  This is in the wake of a 450 billion dollar cut the DoD has to eat, with another 500 billion dollar cut if the "super committee" can't figure it out.

  That is not even 1.5 million troops, still deployed in three wars, staring at further cuts and still meeting training and peacetime missions.

  You are right. You don't want more troops in Baharian because they are in a civil war Arab spring situation still, Saudi is dangerous, and the African bases are not secure for that large of a force, and they suck and they won't let us even if we wanted to.

  But 30K troops, what are those guys gonna do? Granted they are Marines, but still, invade a whole country with 30,000 troops?

  Dude we just ain't got the gas in the tank for another war. I am pretty sure most folks between me and the President know that

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 9:11 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

  Mental wrote:

  But 30K troops, what are those guys gonna do? Granted they are Marines, but still, invade a whole country with 30,000 troops?

  I know a lot of Marines that would see that as a challenge...

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 9:18 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

  What year was that?

  On the tankers, to avoid the Strait of Melaka and the pirates there specifically, we always went by Krakatoa, not through Lombok. I have some pics somewhere of what was left of the volcano circa 1985.
  

  I knew a guy that was involved with the "Blackhawk Down" incident. I don't know which guy in the movie was supposed to be him. He said (third hand, here) they were shooting everything that came at them, and that included women and children. It kinda messed his head up.

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 9:29 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

  Mental, would not having the gas for another war stop people bent on destroying our country from doing just that? Just step back and look at everything done by the current administration. Find me one thing that has helped our country. Unless our country is Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley and their buds, "bundlers" and cronies that is.

  OK, why else would you put 30K Marines in Oz? For the girls? Desert training? We have deserts to train in. Just to blow some dough? The war drums over Iran are really going these days. And don't forget we just invaded Central Africa. All this is part of Soros' Team America, World Police plan. Maybe Indonesia is next.

• 

  Nov. 18, 2011 9:37 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

  Dr. Hess wrote:

  OK, why else would you put 30K Marines in Oz? For the girls?
  

  

  Duh... It's a morale building exercise.

• 

  Nov. 19, 2011 7:55 a.m. fifty Reader

  Dr. Hess wrote: Just step back and look at everything done by the current administration. Find me one thing that has helped our country.
  

  Here's some discussion points to get you and Mr. Limbaugh... started. Please, talk amongst yourselves

  *Saved the US auto industry

  *Killed Bin Laden, al Zarqawi

  *Ended the war in Iraq

  *Led a successful military engagement in Libya

  *Reformed the banking industry

  *Introduced cost controls into Medicare

  *Passed legislation to reform health care

  *Reduced military spending (finally!)

  And desert training? Darwin, being north of the Tropic of Carpenteria is in the tropics. And no speed limits on Northern Territory highways :evil

  
• 

  Nov. 19, 2011 9:53 a.m. oldsaw SuperDork

  In reply to fifty:

  Hess may have floundered this thread, but dude, you just fileted, cooked, and served it.

  On top of that, the damn fish was cold AND spoiled.

• 

  Nov. 19, 2011 1:45 p.m. T.J. SuperDork

  I haven't read the entire thread here, but why should that stop me? It would be a good duty station since the people of Oz seem to appreciate our military going back to WW2, but the point is our country is broke. These people need to be stationed in the good ole US of A. There is no reason at all to send them to Australia, just like there is no reason that we have troops in a hundred or so other countries. Bring 'em home.

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  Nov. 19, 2011 2:15 p.m. Osterkraut SuperDork

  T.J. wrote: There is no reason at all to send them to Australia, just like there is no reason that we have troops in a hundred or so other countries. Bring 'em home.

  Other than, you know, it's a 16 hour flight to certain areas of interest that an asset would need to orbit in for another 16 hours...

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  Nov. 19, 2011 5:12 p.m. T.J. SuperDork

  In reply to Osterkraut:

  Yup, but why should we be doing that? We shouldn't. Like I said, bring 'em home. It is supposed to be the Department of Defense not Offense.

  Even if you think we need to be meddling in the affairs of the entire planet, we really cannot afford it.

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  Nov. 19, 2011 5:30 p.m. MG_Bryan Reader

  T.J. wrote:

  It is supposed to be the Department of Defense not Offense.

  What you're saying there is that you'd rather wars be fought here instead of elsewhere. Agree or disagree with the wars we're currently fighting, but it wouldn't be a good idea to rigidly suggest our troops don't have business to do in other countries.

  Also, I definitely don't want to end up stuck in 29 Palms once I'm in, so shhhhhh.

• 

  Nov. 19, 2011 5:57 p.m. rotard Reader

  "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

  This isn't really an Orwell quote, but it does convey a good message.

• 

  Nov. 19, 2011 7:19 p.m. Osterkraut SuperDork

  T.J. wrote:

  In reply to Osterkraut:

  Yup, but why should we be doing that? We shouldn't. Like I said, bring 'em home. It is supposed to be the Department of Defense not Offense.

  Even if you think we need to be meddling in the affairs of the entire planet, we really cannot afford it.

  Scenario I was describing is a reconnaissance mission... pretty much definition of defensive.

• 

  Nov. 19, 2011 7:32 p.m. T.J. SuperDork

  rotard wrote:

  "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

  This isn't really an Orwell quote, but it does convey a good message.

  Sounds more like a Col. Jessup quote.

  We are waging illegal and undeclared wars in something like 7 countries. I think that is enough. Like I said before, even if you think we need to be 'over there' so we don't have to fight them 'over here' the fact is that we really cannot afford to do that.

  I spent 20 years in the military, retiring almost 3 years ago. I am not knocking your service in any way, I just think things need to change with the way our country conducts itself on the world stage.

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  Nov. 20, 2011 8:13 a.m. oldsaw SuperDork

  T.J. wrote:

  rotard wrote:

  "People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

  This isn't really an Orwell quote, but it does convey a good message.

  Sounds more like a Col. Jessup quote.

  We are waging illegal and undeclared wars in something like 7 countries. I think that is enough. Like I said before, even if you think we need to be 'over there' so we don't have to fight them 'over here' the fact is that we really cannot afford to do that.

  I spent 20 years in the military, retiring almost 3 years ago. I am not knocking your service in any way, I just think things need to change with the way our country conducts itself on the world stage.

  Your sentiments and service are noted and appreciated, TJ.

  You're also swimming against the tide of precedent, established by Thomas Jefferson in 1801. There are many parallels in today's world to that of two hundred years ago.

  http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html

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  Nov. 20, 2011 8:53 a.m. rotard Reader

  Historically, what has happened when the US, since becoming a world power, has taken a hands off approach to world affairs? Though, having the rest of the world's infrastructure destroyed again may be good for us. You can't fight human nature. It's either this, or be happy with mediocrity. Look at Europe for a good example of how awesome that is.

• 

  Nov. 20, 2011 9:07 a.m. neon4891 SuperDork

  Where are we getting this 30K number from? The big number in the first link was UP TO 2,500.

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