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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Wanderlust again

Sept. 17, 2008 9:14 a.m. psteav New Reader

I've been here entirely too long. I'd like some suggestions on where I might go.

"Here" is Columbia, MO. It's a college town in the Midwest. 100k people, low cost of living (like really low!), overall a really nice place to raise kids. (Most of the "xx best places to live" lists in magazines put it in the top 25 towns in the country.) I've lived here for eight years, and at the end of next May, I'll have a fresh law degree. I'm ready to go some place bigger for a little while.

What I'm looking for (in order of importance) -Strong economy and job market (I'm open to whatever area of law practice I can find) -Decent art/theater culture (girlfriend has a theater degree and would like to [i]try[i] to work in her field) -Stuff to do...museums, good music scene, restaurants, motorsports, camping/hiking -Comparatively low cost of living -Moderate-to-liberal political climate (one of the things I like most about Columbia) -No gawdawful long winters -No super-stringent emissions laws (Cali is out, I'm afraid.)

So based on an informal looky-loo, right now the short list is Seattle, Denver, Portland, and Austin. If anyone lives in these places and loves it (or hates it) based on my criteria, I'd love to hear why. And if you like where you're at otherwise and you think I might, tell me why.
Sept. 17, 2008 9:52 a.m. Jack SuperDork
Seattle - love it.

I transplanted from the east 8 years ago. It gets a bit dreary over the winter, but if you enjoy winter sports, the dreary drizzle is a godsend, adding awesome snowpack through the winter. Seattle fits your criteria pretty well, it's just gloomy much of the time from mid-October to April/May-ish. Summer and sunshine is very predictable starting on the 5th of July.
- It rarely gets above 90°F anytime. We don't have A/C in our house and while I've debated it, the only reason I see for getting it would be to take advantage of a heat pump, with gas or electric backup, as a utility saving measure.
Downsides - the people are a bit odd to outsiders. They are very open, friendly, etc., on the outside, but it takes a while to get past the veneer. When you walk past women you don't know, they will look you in the eye and say hi. This was a huge change from the east, where they avoid eye contact with strangers on the street.
- Ethnic foods, beyond seafood and asian cusine are weaker than I found on the east coast and good pizza/real bagels are difficult to find.
Portland will be similar, but warmer. It's a pretty cool city too.

Jack
Sept. 17, 2008 12:13 p.m. CrackMonkey Reader

DC Metro.

It fails the COL requirement, but a lawyer's salary in the city makes up for it.

It meets all your other criteria easily. The economy is strong, the schools are good, there is an active art scene, lots of museums and historical sites. The inner suburbs and city itself are liberal. Weather is ok (NorCal it ain't, but it's not as cold as NYC and not as muggy as Atlanta). Very high mobility factor - lots of people coming and going - makes life interesting. Vehicles are emissions tested in DC and the surrounding areas - DC is bad, but VA is average.

Pick from the city proper, city-like suburbs, or true suburbs. Plan well and you can even avoid most of the traffic.

Have you considered Chicago? Winters can be a bitch, but everybody I know that lives there loves the place.
Sept. 17, 2008 12:22 p.m. stuart in mn Dork

Except for the winter part, you pretty much described Minneapolis-St. Paul. The buildings are heated here, so it's not that big a deal.
Sept. 17, 2008 12:44 p.m. petegossett Dork

Indianapolis: Good economy, good motorsports, good art, good cost of living.
Sept. 17, 2008 12:50 p.m. mrhappy New Reader

Have you thought about moving to the south?In Chattanooga,TN we have fairly short winter.Most times we only get one or two snows that stick to the road.Growing economy,mountains,a scca chapter and race tracks aren't to far away.
Sept. 17, 2008 1:43 p.m. psteav New Reader

Minneapolis was actually my first pick. Couldn't convince the girlfriend to move there (she's from the South). I've had a couple of friends who have lived there and loved it, but they say it really is that freaking cold. Honestly, I hate winter bad enough as it is living here, where we get maybe three big snowstorms a year.

DC has always been in the hunt. I've heard a lot bad and a lot good...But I'm told the traffic is awful and crime is bad. I know I didn't mention it in my first post, but I need to be able to either afford a house/condo in town with a garage, or afford one out of town with a garage and a commute that's livable.

Chattanooga, huh? Have to give it a look. Don't know that it's quite as metropolitan as I want, but I'll definitely read up. Ditto Indy.
Sept. 17, 2008 1:47 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork

I will probably end up in Indianapolis...guess I will have to be a Colts fan.

give Indy a look over, if F1 ends up there again, that will be the tipping point for me.
Sept. 17, 2008 2:13 p.m. MCarp22 New Reader

psteav wrote: Chattanooga, huh? Have to give it a look. Don't know that it's quite as metropolitan as I want, but I'll definitely read up. Ditto Indy.

Nashville is more metropolitan. I'm pretty happy here, but i haven't really lived here long enough to say if it meets all your criteria or not.
Sept. 17, 2008 2:14 p.m. CrackMonkey Reader

DC traffic is bad, if you drive at peak hours and use the highways. Live near work and it's a non-issue. Since you're a lawyer, you'll be at the office 12 hours a day, so will probably miss rush-hour anyway.

The people complaining about traffic are frequently the ones that moved 40-50 miles outside the city so they could buy a new 3000sq/ft McMansion. But, everybody else did the same thing, so now they sit on the interstate for hours on end.

If you work downtown, live downtown, or at least inside the Beltway. Yes, it's more expensive, but for a young couple, it's doable.
Sept. 17, 2008 2:57 p.m. rob_lewis Dork

Austin rocks. Recently named the best place to live (can't remember the magazine, caught a snippit on the news). Round Rock is a suburb of Austin and is on Money's top ten to live: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/snapshots/PL4863500.html

VERY strong job market. Granted, it's a tech town, but the market has always been strong. Inexpensive to live if you don't live downtown (Less than $200k for a 4500 sqft NEW home just north of town). Austin is very artsy and the "Live Music Capital of the World". Unfortunately, we don't have a good city museum. They're trying, but nothing's happened yet. The surrounding communities (all within 30 minutes of downtown) have fantastic school systems. Motorsports is limited to autocrossing, but other events aren't too far of a drive.

No long winters. We have two seasons. Summer and Fall. If the roads ice, the city LITERALLY shuts down until it melts. Not even the newspaper goes out.

Although Austinites complain about traffic, they really have no idea. 15 minutes of 20 mph traffic is considered gridlock.

In 35 minutes, you can be in the Texas hill country and completely removed from the city. Great hike and bike trails, rock climbing areas, parks, etc. all in and around Austin. Still a small town atmosphere so everyone's generally friendly and very laid back.

Oh, and Austin is the quintessential anti-Texas town. Rarely will you see boots, cowboy hats or any of your stereotypical Texans.

-Rob
Sept. 17, 2008 3:13 p.m. CrackMonkey Reader

Yeah, the only boots and cowboys hats I saw in Austin were worn by frat boys on 6th St.

If I were to move south/southwest, Austin would top the list.
Sept. 17, 2008 3:22 p.m. 16vCorey Dork

The only problem with Austin? You're surrounded by the rest of Texas.
Sept. 17, 2008 3:23 p.m. Salanis Dork

Austin is not Texas. Ask anyone in other areas of Texas, and they will deny its existence. I'm convinced that someone transplanted a city from New Mexico. Either that, or it's like every semi-liberal from Texas congregated there.

I have family who lives there though, and it is very nice. And you can still get real Texas BBQ too.
Sept. 17, 2008 3:29 p.m. psteav New Reader

Yeah, that's the only thing keeping Austin from being the runaway favorite. Seems like most of the Texans I've met (which, admittedly, is not very many) have got a serious superiority complex about their state....

As for BBQ, I live two hours from the only city in the country that can give Memphis a run for its money. I would just move to KC if it weren't for the fact that theater jobs are few and far between (and let's face it, there's no point in pulling up stakes and moving for the sake of moving if you're only going 120 miles).
Sept. 17, 2008 3:52 p.m. rob_lewis Dork

Most Texans don't have a superiority complex about the state. We just know it's better!!
Truthfully, I've never experienced anything like that. (Of course, I practically grew up here, so I'm probably tainted). I WILL say that I did move from Dallas to Austin specifically because the people in Dallas always seemed to have a stick up their bum.

I think a lot of it stems from pride and from a "we'll just do it our damn self" attitude. Remember, we really wanted to be our own country.......

Oh, and NO state income tax....

*Quick aside. How cool would it be if Texas did secede from the U.S. and became the watchdog? Some little foreign country causing issues? Just send Texas after 'em!!

-Rob
Sept. 17, 2008 4:15 p.m. CrackMonkey Reader

Texas! Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy!

I think that quote alone would put me off living there. I'd never be able to get FMJ out of my brain.
Sept. 17, 2008 4:42 p.m. fiat22turbo SuperDork

I've lived in Portland all of my life and I still love it. Seattle is nice to visit, but I'm not sure I'd live there as the COL is higher than Portland.

The Seattle area has a great race track, Pacific Raceways (formerly Seattle International) a good number of automotive folks around. Thanks to Boeing there are a number of nutso aerospace engineers running around having fun.

Portland is similar, Portland International Raceway isn't as fun (read: SCARY) to drive as SIR but it is a great course to drive, plenty of HPDE's, club track days, Pro-Drive racing school/skid car, Autocrossing, etc.

Thanks to the relatively mild weather up here and the less than Nazi-like emissions laws like our brethren in the South, we have a large number of older vehicles still being used as daily drivers.

Portland's commuting is getting worse and will likely soon rival Seattle. The key difference is that we are actively trying to alleviate this with more bike lanes, mass transit, etc. Plus many companies are working on allowing their staff flexible hours to work around the traffic.

Plenty of information is available on web for moving to Portland. Portlandmaps.com is a great site to research areas of town. RMLS.com is a site for house listings. http://www.movingtoportland.net/ & http://www.lifeinportland.com/ are good resource for information on Portland. Portlandonline.com is the local city government's website.

Oregonlive.com, Portlandtribune.com, wweek.com and portlandmercury.com are some of the local papers (most free, the Oregonian is not) I also enjoy reading bojack.org (a law professor at Lewis & Clark College that moved from Jersey when we was 18) to keep on top of things as well.

Good luck in your search and let us know if there are any other questions you have.

Stefan
Sept. 18, 2008 10:51 a.m. internetautomart SuperDork

CrackMonkey wrote:

Have you considered Chicago? Winters can be a bitch, but everybody I know that lives there loves the place.

we don't love it, but no risk of hurricanes, wild fires, mud slides. We have a bit of EVERYTHING here. Even with the snow we get, it's less than the east coast gets. in the city you can find houses from 5k to 5mil. we have an excellent public transportation system. we have tons of things to do.

depending on what law the OP is doing there are tons of opportunity here too. PLUS here you have some semblance of midwest ethics.
Sept. 18, 2008 12:32 p.m. psteav New Reader

Chicago's too cold. Plus, the commute for any kind of place I can afford with a garage is going to be an hour or more, if the traffic's good. Cool town, don't think I could live there.
Sept. 18, 2008 12:38 p.m. Salanis Dork

internetautomart wrote:

CrackMonkey wrote:

Have you considered Chicago? Winters can be a bitch, but everybody I know that lives there loves the place.

we don't love it, but no risk of hurricanes, wild fires, mud slides. We have a bit of EVERYTHING here. Even with the snow we get, it's less than the east coast gets. in the city you can find houses from 5k to 5mil. we have an excellent public transportation system. we have tons of things to do.

depending on what law the OP is doing there are tons of opportunity here too. PLUS here you have some semblance of midwest ethics.

Yech. Lived outside in Illinois outside Chicago for a while. It is one of the few places I've vowed not to settle.

No, you don't get as much snow as the East-Coast... because it gets too cold to snow. -30 sucks.
Sept. 18, 2008 6:38 p.m. ApexC Reader

Thought about St. Louis? Maybe it's not far enough away for you, but it meets your criteria without breaking a sweat.

I lived in Chicago for 5 years and chose to come back after being raised here. I thoroughly dig it - it really is a metropolitan city on the upswing, which is a pretty rare occurrence these days, I think. It's really cool to be part of a city while the downtown is coming back and everybody else is starting to figure it out.

And there's a lot of history and depth to the city itself and the individual neighborhoods, which is something I'm just starting to figure out. I like it here.
Sept. 19, 2008 10:03 a.m. CrackMonkey Reader

psteav wrote:

Plus, the commute for any kind of place I can afford with a garage is going to be an hour or more.

It's not that bad. My sister's recently renovated Wicker Park condo has a garage, nearly 2000sq/ft, and it was less than $400k in 2005, so probably hasn't gone up in value much since then.

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