Whale Wars-Page 2: Off-topic discussion forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

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July 1, 2009 10:22 p.m. joey48442 SuperDork

That the same group who botched a whale hunt and the whale ended up lingering around for hours? Yeah, I don't give a E36 M3 about your culture if you can't kill something swiftly, you shouldn't be killing. I don't mind responsible hunting. I don't mind if your culture failed and you have to go hunt a whale to help you avoid being an alcoholic. What I do care about is when your failure causes something else to suffer.

Joey

ae86andkp61 wrote:

I've only watched part of a few episodes and have to agree with most in that it seems like a worthy cause with terrible execution.

The first I had heard of these nutjobs was when I read a book about the Makah whaling up here in Washington. A Native American tribe literally at the end of a long road to nowhere (waaaay out on the end of the Olympic Peninsula) had a community which had long suffered in modern American society (alcoholism, violence, disease, unemployment, depression, etc.) A few people there woke the Reservation up by reviving their traditional whale hunt, and that in turn brought a resurgence of interest in the old language, canoe carving, old dances and songs, etc. They had a huge uphill battle just to relearn how to get in the water, not to mention that it took a long time of trying before they had a realistic chance at bagging a whale. We are talking about a half dozen guys on the open ocean in a canoe, in 50-degree water, trying to outpaddle a whale, harpoon it when it surfaces, and then hang on for long enough to quickly kill it with a high-powered rifle (a modern concession due to concerns about animal cruelty) and the Sea Shepards harassed them and tried their best to undermine the whalers the entire way! The tribe is legally allowed something like five whales a year, but to date they have only killed one or two!

I just can't support someone who is so principled about an issue that he is completely blind to any context or external circumstances. The world isn't so completely black an white that we have to strip a disadvantaged community of their traditional culture (and a strong positive force in their lives) for the sake of one whale. Not to mention that his ship probably burned more fossil fuel and produced more pollution than I will in my entire life trying to save that one whale (and failing, at that.)
July 1, 2009 10:53 p.m. RealMiniDriver Dork

I got to thinking, when I saw them throw the acid that "spoils" the whale they were pulling on deck. So, after the Japanse chuck the spoiled whale overboard, aren't they just going to hunt down another, thereby killing twice as many whales?
July 2, 2009 6:44 p.m. ae86andkp61 Reader

joey48442 wrote:

That the same group who botched a whale hunt and the whale ended up lingering around for hours?

Yes and no. There was a legal (and successful) hunt conducted by the tribe about ten years ago, and protested with threats of violence by the Sea Shepards. The whale was caught and harpooned by the whalers in a canoe, and then killed quickly by a vet with a rifle from a nearby powerboat. My understanding is that the hunt had fairly broad support from many of the members of the tribe and the support of the Tribal Council.

A couple years ago a few members of the tribe illegally shot a whale but didn't kill it. The Coast Guard seized the whale and tried to tow it out to sea and it eventually died. As far as I know, they did not have the support of the Tribal Council, and were sentenced to some sort of punishment.

I guess what I take from it is that Japanese whaling for supposed "research" probably isn't the best thing. Makah whaling has a minimal impact on the species but a big impact on the tribe, and probably isn't the worst thing. One is worth protesting, but I am not sure that both are worth protesting, and I don't think violence and inept confrontations and threats are the best way to do it.
July 4, 2009 8:59 a.m. poopshovel SuperDork

I watched a bit last night. My impression:

I hope a swarm of angry stingrays jumps onto the boat and stabs each of them through the heart.
July 5, 2009 4:34 p.m. AngryCorvair Dork

fromeast2west wrote:

Green Peace wouldn't take direct action against the whalers, so Paul formed a more militant group. They have been credited / blamed for sinking whaling boats in harbors (no people hurt).

I'm sure they had the boat properly evacuated of all toxic fuels / oils / etc before sinking it, thereby protecting the aquatic life in the harbor area.

i had forgotten about my hatred for activists. thanks for reminding me.
July 5, 2009 6:18 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

So whales are big so if they die its tragic? Just trying to get this straight.
July 6, 2009 1:30 a.m. thatsnowinnebago HalfDork

Whales are charismatic megafauna so people care about them more and some species were facing extinction during the heyday of commercial whaling.
July 6, 2009 7:52 a.m. joey48442 SuperDork

MrJoshua wrote:

So whales are big so if they die its tragic? Just trying to get this straight.

no, it's their rarity that makes it tragic. An ivory billed woodpecker dieing is, to me, just as tragic. Poachers are the lowest level of people, in my way of thinking. Maybe second only to pedophiles. While the people on board the steve irwin seem to be a bunch of idiot hippies, at least they are trying to make things better. It is strange, but almost as a rule my republican friends love the concept of vigilantism, but this always makes them mad. I don't get that. Maybe it's because animals are harmed, and republicans are "supposed" to hate animals, and liberal-bunny hugging-democrats are supposed to love them?

Joey
July 6, 2009 7:59 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

Misplaced vigilantism is always stupid. People shooting abortion doctors is stupid as is sinking whaling vessels.
July 6, 2009 8:23 a.m. joey48442 SuperDork

MrJoshua wrote:

Misplaced vigilantism is always stupid. People shooting abortion doctors is stupid as is sinking whaling vessels.

No, that is different. That is worse. If you said that its like burning down an abortion clinic, with no one inside, then you could make the comparison. But killing the doctor is different.

Joey
July 6, 2009 5:54 p.m. pinchvalve UltraDork

I'll avoid the pro/con of whaling, but as for inept...did you see them try to launch a Zodiac hanging from a crane at speed in pitching seas? The Navy Seals would not try that maneuver. They almost lost everyone in the boat and a few on the deck. Inept is being kind.