3Door4G wrote:I think they have upgraded the renderings, what they're still using is the model for how the car handles.
No, no they are not. Especially considering that the game has crossed not one but TWO Playstation platforms since then.
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Feb. 22, 2010 9:13 a.m. Duke SuperDork
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Feb. 22, 2010 10:05 a.m. Volksroddin Dork
hmmm, the last time I waited 5 years (or some were around there) was for the last Tool album,..EPIC FAIL. Some how I dont think when the game comes out I would say "wow that was worth it".
BTW GT4 was a let down as well
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Feb. 22, 2010 10:42 a.m. DirtyBird222 Dork
S13 and GT has the most realistic driving properties?
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Feb. 22, 2010 10:51 a.m. EricM Dork
ddavidv wrote:
All the crash damage you want:
I'm sorry, I don't care how eye-poppingly cool the Gran Turismo graphics become...for the real racer it will still be 'just' a video game. Having spent the last year racing with iRacing there really is not comparison. I haven't turned on the PlayStation in at least as long.
Just wondering, can yo upaint or skin your own car like in liveforspeed? Not saying any one is better than the other, just curious.
thanks,
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Feb. 22, 2010 10:52 a.m. ReverendDexter Dork
I wish Live For Speed had real tracks. I don't mind the cars being "fake", but for some reason it bugs me to drive on made-up tracks.
That and LFS's turbo modeling sucks. They don't have anything resembling a boost curve, it just acts like a larger displacment motor.
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Feb. 22, 2010 11:50 a.m. Schmidlap Reader
friedgreencorrado wrote:
Oh, yeah...I agree! But until console games get more realistic AI, how you drive has nothing to do with it. They brake so late before the corners, you think they're going to fly off the road. And then they hit the brakes hard again, in the middle of the corner, without upsetting the car at all. Grrr.
My biggest complaint with the AI in GT3 or 4 or whatever the last PS2 version was, is that it's as if they only have one line they can drive, and will drive it as if there's nothing ever in front of them. So many times I'd be driving down a long straight in an underpowered, but great handling car, and an AI would come flying up behind me and ram me because I was on his line, and then I would get the 5 second penalty. It could easily have passed me on the really wide straight, but instead it just drove into me. Sure, some contact is unavoidable and I don't expect the AI to drive like a real person, but they shouldn't just drive around like Mr. Magoo.
Bob
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Feb. 22, 2010 12:16 p.m. ReverendDexter Dork
Schmidlap wrote:
My biggest complaint with the AI in GT3 or 4 or whatever the last PS2 version was, is that it's as if they only have one line they can drive, and will drive it as if there's nothing ever in front of them. So many times I'd be driving down a long straight in an underpowered, but great handling car, and an AI would come flying up behind me and ram me because I was on his line, and then I would get the 5 second penalty. It could easily have passed me on the really wide straight, but instead it just drove into me. Sure, some contact is unavoidable and I don't expect the AI to drive like a real person, but they shouldn't just drive around like Mr. Magoo.
Bob
+1 - I always hated the fact that the computer NEVER screwed up. It always took the perfect race line, and your difficulty level only seemed to adjust how fast they'd take it.
In Forza 3 the drivers have slightly different personalities. Some are really aggressive, and will bash you into the first wall they can. Some are pretty passive, and if they're trying to pass you will immediately back off if you start to cut into their line.
Admittedly, I haven't played online, but I'm not a big PvP kinda guy, I prefer my online have some element of co-op to it.
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Feb. 22, 2010 12:20 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
I haven't touched a console racing game in forever. I expect GT5 to be GT4/3/2 with different music and prettier pictures and the same basic dynamics and bullshyte model where you have to buy silly add-ons.
The best one I ever tried was TOCA 3, good damage, reasonable physics... but crappy online play and an irritating storyline. Every single other one console games are all style over substance. Cartoon driving dynamics... fun to play but not really compelling once you have fallen off the dark side...
rFactor with the Historic GT mod blew me away. Realistic sound, damage, rain, time shift, head physics, damage model, feedback, sunlight/clouds... marbles build up on the outsides of the corners - concrete had different grip than asphalt... and cool old race cars with good AI too. Its downfall is something iRacing does better... making head-to-head online racing available to me at 10:17PM on Tuesday. Its also great as far as awesome competition and realistic tracks go.
If the guys at iRacing could team up with the guys at rFactor instead of the papyrus folks they would have the best of everything but right now... they have enough to keep me paying them even the engine is a little sad and missing everything but the car physics.
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Feb. 22, 2010 12:47 p.m. 3Door4G New Reader
Duke wrote:
3Door4G wrote:
I think they have upgraded the renderings, what they're still using is the model for how the car handles.
No, no they are not. Especially considering that the game has crossed not one but TWO Playstation platforms since then.
Well I thought that's what I read, but maybe I didn't understand it right. I know Kazunori said crash damage wasn't happening though, so that's neat that they're doing that. Maybe they re-did the AI too, who knows?
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Feb. 22, 2010 1:20 p.m. turboswede SuperDork
Grand Pix Legends is still better.
Why? Because it was about realism and game play first and graphics second.
Anything on a console is not a simulation, it is for goofing around.
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Feb. 22, 2010 4:00 p.m. Rufledt Reader
i like goofing around
plus i thought GT5 would have surface type damage on normal cars, where the racing cars were supposed to have stuff rip off an all of that.. either way, i'm gonna enjoy GT5. and i like the whole tuning the car with parts and stuff, even though the racing isn't very even and the AI is all completely stupid... its still enjoyable. its why i got a PS3. just not super realistic, thats what iracing is for.
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Feb. 22, 2010 4:01 p.m. Duke SuperDork
ReverendDexter wrote:
+1 - I always hated the fact that the computer NEVER screwed up. It always took the perfect race line, and your difficulty level only seemed to adjust how fast they'd take it.
Are you kidding? They screw up all the time. I finished the Laguna Seca enduro something like 18 laps up on the Mercedes CLK touring car, because he spun on the last turn at least every 3rd or 4th lap. They lose it fairly frequently.
And at least in GT4 they will actually try to avoid you unless the speed differential is large. They are certainly not great at it, but they try. And you will only get the penalty if the FRONT of your car hits them, so just getting BFed doesn't give you a penalty.
Don't get me wrong, my sincerest GT5 wish is for improved AI drivers, but they are not like electric trains that chart a fixed path around the course at the same speeds every time.
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Feb. 22, 2010 6:10 p.m. Will Reader
+1. Yeah, the GT4 AI can't drive a car with even a slight bit of oversteer. For whatever reason the game just can't drive certain cars and will spin them constantly.
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Feb. 22, 2010 9:20 p.m. confuZion3 SuperDork
I agree with pretty much every point Friedgreencorrado made about Forza 3 and its potential beat-down by GT5 if online play is done right. Turn 10 absolutely MURDERED their otherwise fantastic online system with FM3. I don't even like to play online anymore because I get booted from lobbies by 8-year-olds with filthy language and absolutely no idea how to run a fun race.
In just about 100% of the races I do online (seriously, 100%) I get a nice hole-shot, get on my line for turn 1, and get rammed in the ass by some punk kid who spins me into the dirt and gets by unscathed. They all pick heavy cars too so that it doesn't unsettle them when they plow my 1800 pound Miata or my 2200 pound Supra Celica into a wall. Oh, and you can't kick them because nobody will vote them out.
I do like the Forza 3 AI. I've seen the huge variety of drivers and I even see them make mistakes all by themselves! I watched one drop a wheel into the inside dirt in a corner and spin! And if you are careful and respectful of them, they don't bump you if you go two-wide into a turn.
But it doesn't make up for the horrible online play. Not by a long-shot.
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Feb. 22, 2010 9:23 p.m. confuZion3 SuperDork
Crash damage is important in my opinion. It does help keep the cheaters at bay, but it also makes for a more fun racing experience. Aerodynamics get screwed up if you bump your competitors, your car gets weathered if you run aggressively, and roll-overs yield some really delicious destructive consequences. They can do it now, so why not?
CRUNCH!!!!
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Feb. 23, 2010 12:25 a.m. friedgreencorrado Dork
ddavidv wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't care how eye-poppingly cool the Gran Turismo graphics become...for the real racer it will still be 'just' a video game. Having spent the last year racing with iRacing there really is not comparison. I haven't turned on the PlayStation in at least as long.
I've heard wonderful things about iRacing, but I guess I'm kind of in an "in-between" mode when it comes to these things. I really don't want something that requires as much mental effort as real racing after spending all day at work. I just want to come home, have a few beers, and hang out with other like-minded people.
I'd been joking on the Forza 2 online about hosting the "Drunk Driving National Road Racing Championship". (as the other regulars here on the GRM board who's played in my lobbies will attest
). The physics aren't as good as a serious PC sim like GTR or iRacing, but they're good enough that basic driving theory still rewards you. And of course, they're unrealistic enough to be quite forgiving to a bunch of guys sitting around drinking and talking about cars and racing. It's as much about the social experience as it is about who wins & loses. I considered it "virtual bench racing"-and from that standpoint, I enjoy the console games, as long as the online environment can be adjusted to keep anyone who isn't using the game for the same purpose out of our way. In Forza 2 that was possible. In F3, it isn't.
Although I'm sure GT5 won't be the equal of real racing sims, I do think there will be a big market for the game if Sony doesn't repeat Microsoft's mistakes regarding the online experience. If they do the online well, there's many of us who will go out and buy the game and our first PS3 at the same time. Forza 3 has sold over a million copies, and yet I see less than a thousand people playing it online every time I go to look. If even a quarter of the people disappointed with F3 online buy a new PS3 to play GT5, Sony will recoup that 80mil pretty quick...
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Feb. 23, 2010 12:37 a.m. RedS13Coupe Reader
ReverendDexter wrote:
I wish Live For Speed had real tracks. I don't mind the cars being "fake", but for some reason it bugs me to drive on made-up tracks.
That and LFS's turbo modeling sucks. They don't have anything resembling a boost curve, it just acts like a larger displacment motor.
I don't mind the fake tracks at all. Its like Clarkson did with Leguna Seca... It is not a replacement, it is not the same. It just looks the same if you have never done both. Just because the are the same shape doesn't mean it will be the same to drive... So rather then try and fool my self I am fine with developers just making up their own track.
LFS is definitely not with out its faults... but it has ruined GT series for me. If nothing else their force feedback seems so terribly unreal.
In my opinion, 80 million only means that they have to sell a TON of copies to make their money back.... And I stick by the fact that most people don't want a race simulator, just something hard enough that they feel justified in bragging.
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Feb. 23, 2010 12:41 a.m. Osterkraut Dork
friedgreencorrado wrote: If even a quarter of the people disappointed with F3 online buy a new PS3 to play GT5, Sony will recoup that 80mil pretty quick...
Last I heard Sony is still losing money on the PS3, so...
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Feb. 23, 2010 12:45 a.m. friedgreencorrado Dork
confuZion3 wrote:
Crash damage is important in my opinion. It does help keep the cheaters at bay, but it also makes for a more fun racing experience. Aerodynamics get screwed up if you bump your competitors, your car gets weathered if you run aggressively, and roll-overs yield some really delicious destructive consequences. They can do it now, so why not?
confuZion3, I was hoping you'd weigh in on this one! You're one of the guys I was talking about when I mentioned how we'd all get bent and play against each other in FM2.
And of course, the two or three of us could run a "private lobby" in F3, but without a full field, it's pretty weak. The thing I liked the most about F2's public lobbies was that we could run off the poseurs, but still had a full field for the races. There's a lot of people out there who want to find out what racing is like, but still don't know that they can actually do it. We racers play these console games for fun, but a lot of the folks curious about racing think they're "realistic". I met people that were stoked that we raced/autocrossed/rallied for real, and have heard that we inspired them to try the sport IRL.
Oddly enough, most of the gAmErZ quit my pub lobbies in 2 immediately after they discovered the "suggested line" was off. And of course, the damage being on (even on "limited"!) got rid of most of the rest of them.
Weird thing...I'd go play 3 online again if the line & traction control was turned off (for anything less than an R2, anyway), the driveline conversions (4WD Mk.2 Golf? WTF!!!) were kicked, and the end race timer was increased to 2min (so that new drivers aren't ever punished with a DNF).
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Feb. 23, 2010 12:53 a.m. friedgreencorrado Dork
Osterkraut wrote:
friedgreencorrado wrote: If even a quarter of the people disappointed with F3 online buy a new PS3 to play GT5, Sony will recoup that 80mil pretty quick...
Last I heard Sony is still losing money on the PS3, so...
Yeah, and even more now that they've lowered the price on it.
I still think the reason Sony's been so patient with Polyphony Digital (and has been coughing up so much development money) is that GT4 was a big "system mover" for the PS2. They're hoping lightning will strike twice.
I have to admit..I really want GT5 to be good. I was a reluctant convert to Forza, and I'd love to have Forza 3 style physics/painting/tuning on Grand Valley or Trial Mountain. They beat the hell out of any of Forza's fictional tracks.
Besides, I still have my Logitech wheel & pedals, and I'd love to unpack them again (the Microsoft wheel sucks the shiny happy part of dead animals).
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Feb. 23, 2010 6:07 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork
EricM wrote: Just wondering, can yo upaint or skin your own car like in liveforspeed? Not saying any one is better than the other, just curious.
You can paint your car from a large color palette and numerous 'schemes' from solid colors to tri-colors. They are slowly adding sponsorship graphics also. I don't get into the car personalizing but it does have a great advantage in being able to tell the cars/drivers apart during the race.
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Feb. 23, 2010 6:19 a.m. Luke SuperDork
ReverendDexter wrote: That and LFS's turbo modeling sucks. They don't have anything resembling a boost curve, it just acts like a larger displacment motor.
Good point. I've always been aware of that, but never really thought about it. There's no sensation of turbo lag in LFS.
But I think the level editor makes up for the fake tracks. Hooning around a self-made autocross course in the Clubman is always a blast.
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Feb. 23, 2010 8:33 a.m. BobOfTheFuture Reader
What do you get if you spend 80 Million developing a race game?
Another GT, But this time they can up the Civic variation count to 40, or more!
Buying it simply because I used to play it, and the McCrae Series went arcade.
If someone made an update to the old PS2 WRC game, thats all Id need
