When is it time to panic

Boris Johnson is in intensive care this morning. Which probably means intubation. Which does not generally have a good outcome.

wae (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm not comparing any of what is going on right now to any of those things.  Only saying that the idea that sacrificing lives for an ideal is not something that is bat E36 M3 crazy, but just how the whole world has worked since basically forever ago.

 

And, re-read.  I'm not saying that we should let people die just because some people might be economically hurt if we don't.  My concerns are more for damage we might do to the institution of the country itself.

In the context of the current situation, the only reason we would be turning the system back on is for economic reasons.  We are not being asked to stop a country from murdering some large group of people- as if they do, they represent a major threat to the mere existence of our country.   Lest we forget, this pandemic is worldwide- so it's not as if a country is going to be able to bright a fight to us.

So while you can change what you ask, bear in mind the context of when you asked that question.  We are not under the threat of the USSR or Axis Powers.

In reply to STM317 :

Not sure where you got your data- as there has been a number of kids who have died, certainly some people in their 20's and 30s.  

But unless you are willing to sacrifice YOUR parents without their permission, don't ask me to sacrifice mine.  Especially since mine WILL be contributing to the recovery just by spending money on stuff.  Which is the overall driver of our economy.  The fact that they are too old to work means someone else gets to make stuff for someone else to consume.   Old people who don't work are the perfect drivers to the economy- they just spend money (however little it is).

EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter) said:

It's getting a bit warm in here. 

Came back to say, I LOVE y'all, and I don't want this E36 M3 to cause any of us or our family members to die prematurely. I hope I didn't cause the caution flag. I'll either not respond, or read/ask questions only, just in case <3

I want to jump in.

This thing is scary. It's not as scary as some want you to believe. It's scarier than some want you to believe. If my wife gets it, I will likely be a windower. (Single nerdy bald father of four seeks homeschooling Mom to...)

Every news outlet says that we rounded 10,000 fatalities, whereas the CDC shows 8,900 right now. it's wrong to lie about that. it's wrong to think that 8,900 is a small thing we can ignore.

The thing seems to be plateued here. That's good. Still time to be careful.

For a slight change of direction: I spoke with the doctor's office this AM and they sent me to the hospital to get tested. I am officially quarantined until the results come back (8-10 days). Other than extreme shortness of breath it doesn't seem to be getting worse. Still feel like dog crap, but hanging in there.

In reply to tuna55 (Forum Supporter) :

Nice mask..  

bearmtnmartin said:

Boris Johnson is in intensive care this morning. Which probably means intubation. Which does not generally have a good outcome.

I don't think he is on a vent yet, but they don't move you to the ICU if they don't expect you to need it.

In reply to 06HHR (Forum Supporter) :

Wife made it with my kids help. I like turtles. It's probably not incredibly useful, but it's better than nothing.

In reply to tuna55 (Forum Supporter) :

Two things....

First- that's the first time i've seen the daily data suggest that the US as a whole has turned around, I'm still hoping to be able to go back to work in May.

Second- that data is a day old....  So it's quite possible that the news has a live feed that goes into the deaths data.  Given deaths lag the onset by a week or even two- the death rate will lag that case rate by a week or two- so we may be in the heart of the deaths very soon (as is being suggested by a LOT of people, including our Governor and the President.  Ugh.

In reply to tuna55 (Forum Supporter) :

I'm sure it's better than at least 75% of what i've seen around here. I wore a cheap dust mask to the hardware store today, I honestly felt less secure than not having a mask at all, as ill-fitting as it was. And the turtles are a nice touch.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

I can tell you as an "essential" employee there is no hazard pay. In fact they have made it clear that there's NO ot and anyone caught will get written up. So I make the same money as always to go out in the world and deal with it. 
 

Im conflicted. I don't think that what we do is that essential and feel the ceo is using a loophole to keep us open. I also don't agree with allowing the govt to control our movement and what businesses can and can't be open. I agree we need to do what we can to help slow this monster but at what cost? Do we crash the global economy to do it?

sonetbing that's been glanced at here is the mental health of society. I guarantee you suicides will increase. People that are struggling in a normal world are now being bombarded with this "we are all gonna die" 24/7. They can't visit friends. Can't go do things that help them mentally. Now what? What do they (and I admit I'm one) do? I see my therapist on my phone for an hour a week and can see the stress on her plate trying to help people like me. I do not envy any mental health professional in the coming months. 

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to STM317 :

Not sure where you got your data- as there has been a number of kids who have died, certainly some people in their 20's and 30s.  

Just to add to the point:  So, far, underlying conditions (respiratory, immune deficiencies etc.) seems to be a huge determiner of outcome.  Older people of course generally are more likely to have one.  There was even a 102 year old (in England I think) that recovered recently.  There was also a 20 something who died in CA a few weeks ago.... he apparently had sepsis...   I don't know, or if anyone knows of, any cases that did not have an underlying condition.

To be clear, we can't say for certain what underlying conditions are more dangerous than others (although you could make some good guesses).  I heard of one case (30's) who died, who was said not to have any, but a picture of her clearly showed she was on the obese range of the spectrum.  So general health is likely a factor.

poopshovel again said:

EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter) said:

It's getting a bit warm in here. 

Came back to say, I LOVE y'all, and I don't want this E36 M3 to cause any of us or our family members to die prematurely. I hope I didn't cause the caution flag. I'll either not respond, or read/ask questions only, just in case <3

Pretty sure I'm the one that jerked the wheel and took this one 4 off.

I have tried to stay out of this as much as possible from the start. I'll go back to doing that. 

This whole illness and stay-at-home is sometimes hard to grasp.  I heard a scientist put it in easy-to-understand terms.  Well, as long as you understand the size of the solar system and light years and such.

This is like light from a distant star.  You're seeing the light two weeks after it left, so today you see an event that happened two weeks ago.  And how you behave today won't show its impact until two weeks from now (that would be April 20, as of today). 

If you want things to be better on April 20, take positive action today, even if positive action means sitting on the couch and doing nothing.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to tuna55 (Forum Supporter) :

Two things....

First- that's the first time i've seen the daily data suggest that the US as a whole has turned around, I'm still hoping to be able to go back to work in May.

Second- that data is a day old....  So it's quite possible that the news has a live feed that goes into the deaths data.  Given deaths lag the onset by a week or even two- the death rate will lag that case rate by a week or two- so we may be in the heart of the deaths very soon (as is being suggested by a LOT of people, including our Governor and the President.  Ugh.

The data has been flatter for a few days, but I didn't want to call it until I saw a big trend.

That bar graph is actually a week old, because it's based on the date on onset. I like that because it makes sense.

The data regarding the fatalities are indeed one day old, which is why I am comparing this afternoons CDC update with the headlines from dawn this morning.

It's a hard time, the group I'm helping to deliver supplies were insisting each driver get a box of N95 masks, but a lot of us felt uncomfortable taking so many when our healthcare professionals need them more.  We basically ended up splitting one box among ourselves and insisting the rest go to local medical facilities.  Most of us have been wearing facemasks or balaclavas just to make the people we are delivering to feel more comfortable.

Trouble is, most people are now opting out of getting their supplies delivered because they're going stir crazy or they're afraid that WE are going to be their point of exposure.

In reply to mtn :

Based on the two week timing, he might be on the "German Plan"; The Germans have decided that by monitoring people at their homes, and sending them to the hospital only once they reach a tipping point that they have identified, they have managed to keep a low mortality rate in the face of a high infection rate.

I hope that Boris was sent based on a precautionary indicator and not on an emergency basis.

On a side/Brit note, just listened to the Queen's speech. The broad can orate. And she has the chops to deliver the message that she gave.

Pete

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

I'm certainly not getting hazard pay and to answer the question if people are clamoring for the job......the answer is no

I know Mr Money Mustache can be a hot button all by himself. But late last week I read his recent piece on the virus and the world response and I think his perspective is really cool. To significantly paraphrase:

We have a real threat to some citizens of the world from the virus (while at the same time there is not a significant threat to humanity as a whole). We are voluntarily sacrificing the economies of the world to save those people. So therefore the leaders of the world are currently sacrificing money to save some lives. While maybe not the most fair or efficient or effective way to sacrifice money to save lives, it's still pretty berking cool that we as a society are trying.

In answer to the title of this thread, never panic. Be concerned. Be vigilant. Be prepared. Be compassionate. Be kind.  
 

I have been off for a week. I go back to work with 1000 plus other folks at a large manufacturing plant tomorrow. I am thankful to have a job. I am thankful that everyone that I know personally is safe, this far. I am also under no illusions. My parents are in their 80s. My wife is a nurse. I have a far flung extended family of cousins, aunts, uncles, in-laws and friends from as far west as Arizona and Nebraska, South to Florida, and North up the Eastern seaboard to Connecticut. There is a significant chance that this will impact someone that I know.

All we can do is perform to the best of our abilities;  try to keep those around us as safe as possible; and pray.  Be blessed.  

In reply to Don49 (Forum Supporter) :

That sounds like good news Don, thanks for the update!

OK , I know this is long and she is the UK Queen and not ours , 

But she hit it out of the park  on this , Long Live the Queen,

Queen Elizabeth II: (00:16)
I’m speaking to you at what I know is an increasingly challenging time, a time of disruption in the life of our country, a disruption that has brought grief to some, financial difficulties to many, and enormous changes to the daily lives of us all. I want to thank everyone on the NHS frontline, as well as care workers and those carrying out essential roles who selflessly continue their day-to-day duties outside the home in support of us all. I’m sure the nation will join me in assuring you that what you do is appreciated, and every hour of your hard work brings us closer to a return to more normal times. I also want to thank those of you who are staying at home, thereby helping to protect the vulnerable, and sparing many families the pain already felt by those who have lost loved ones.

Queen Elizabeth II: (01:22)
Together we are tackling this disease, and I want to reassure you that if we remain united and resolute, then we will overcome it. I hope in the years to come everyone will be able to take pride in how they responded to this challenge, and those who come after us will say the Britons of this generation were as strong as any, that the attributes of self-discipline, of quiet, good-humored resolve, and of fellow feeling still characterize this country. The pride in who we are is not a part of our past, it defines our present and our future.

Queen Elizabeth II: (02:11)
The moments when the United Kingdom has come together to applaud its care and essential workers will be remembered as an expression of our national spirit, and its symbol will be the rainbows drawn by children. Across the Commonwealth and around the world, we have seen heartwarming stories of people coming together to help others, be it through delivering food parcels and medicines, checking on neighbors, or converting businesses to help the relief effort. And though self-isolating may at times be hard, many people of all faiths and of none are discovering that it presents an opportunity to slow down, pause and reflect in prayer or meditation.

Queen Elizabeth II: (03:06)
It reminds me of the very first broadcast I made in 1940, helped by my sister. We as children spoke from here at Windsor to children who had been evacuated from their homes and sent away for their own safety. Today, once again, many will feel a painful sense of separation from their loved ones, but now as then, we know deep down that it is the right thing to do. While we have faced challenges before, this one is different. This time we join with all nations across the globe in a common endeavor. Using the great advances of science and our instinctive compassion to heal, we will succeed, and that success will belong to every one of us. We should take comfort that while we may have more still to endure, better days will return. We will be with our friends again. We will be with our families again. We will meet again. But for now, I send my thanks and warmest good wishes to you all.

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) said:

poopshovel again said:

EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter) said:

It's getting a bit warm in here. 

Came back to say, I LOVE y'all, and I don't want this E36 M3 to cause any of us or our family members to die prematurely. I hope I didn't cause the caution flag. I'll either not respond, or read/ask questions only, just in case <3

Pretty sure I'm the one that jerked the wheel and took this one 4 off.

I have tried to stay out of this as much as possible from the start. I'll go back to doing that. 

 

SPECIFICALLY, I love you, my dawg. While we may not have stormed the beaches of Normandy together, we've certainly done our time in the trenches of CMP...and each miss Mike fo sho. Shoot me an email and let's talk some time <3

Some companies are paying hourly employees that can't work from home increased rates. Since I'm not an official spokesperson for any of them, I can't comment on which, how much or anything like that.