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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Why do the automakers skimp out on manual transmissions?

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Jan. 19, 2011 11:24 p.m. SyntheticBlinkerFluid Reader

I know that the automakers are slowly phasing out the manual transmission for DSG style transmissions. My problem is, why do the hi-po engines get shafted (or us for that matter) on having a manual option?

For example: I was looking at the new Kia Optima (what a great looking car) and it comes with a 2.4L 200 hp NA 4-pot available with a manual or automatic, but as the TRIM level goes up, every model becomes automatic only. There is even a top of the line "Sport" model (SX) that has lowered suspension and all the bells and whistles that has the 2.0L 274hp Turbo 4-pot but only comes with a "shiftable" automatic, no manual option.

I mean come on. They should at least have that turbo motor mated to 6-speed.
Jan. 19, 2011 11:59 p.m. alex SuperDork

I'm guessing it's because an A/T is a 'value-added upgrade' to most consumers, so they'll pay more for it.
Jan. 20, 2011 1:34 a.m. Keith SuperDork

Maybe the stick can't handle the torque of the turbo engine. I know that if you're one of the rare souls to buy a Cummins Dodge with a stick, you get a 50 ft-lb torque cut.
Jan. 20, 2011 6:35 a.m. alfadriver SuperDork

Maybe not enough people buy them.
Jan. 20, 2011 6:53 a.m. Klayfish Reader

I think it's really that simple. Very few people buy them. Even before the recent days of the manumatics, traditional stick shifts weren't being sold much. Now that the manumatic is making it's way down to more "pedestrian" cars, people want them.

I've never owned a manumatic car, but I like my traditional 5 or 6 speed. It's sad to see them slowly fading away.
Jan. 20, 2011 7:01 a.m. z31maniac SuperDork

Hey, this is a new topic that has never been discussed at length on this forum!

I'd be happy if manufacturers could get DCT transmissions behind the hi-po engines that are as good as the BMW one in the new M3.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:18 a.m. That idiot who can't spell SuperDork

I still want three pedals. I don't care about it is DSG or any of that other bullE36 M3.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:27 a.m. scardeal Reader

I started out on autos and have only learned to drive a manual 2 years ago. I also have plenty of experience with a shiftable automatic. My daily driving has been a mix of manual and automatic since.

Frankly, after 2 years, my opinion is that for day to day driving, having an automatic mode is really nice. You don't have to worry about stalling or rolling backwards on hills. You don't have to do the clutch dance in stop and go traffic.

At this point, my ideal transmission is a DSG. It has the ability to be an automatic. It has the mechanical efficiency of a manual. It has the manual control when I want it.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:29 a.m. That idiot who can't spell SuperDork

I have never driven anything that was an automatic except a rental Cobalt and it made me want to blow my brains out.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:45 a.m. curtis73 Dork

Its one part marketing and one part engineering.

Marketing: studies and demographics suggest that offering manuals in certain cars will lose money, or not make much money.

Engineering: NVH technology has exceeded manual transmission technology. A strong manual transmission is a loud one. The T56 is strong enough for a monster V8 which is why they put them in Camaros and Vipers, but they are old school and noisy by comparison. Muscle-heads who WANT old school and noisy don't care since they can't hear the whining over the 3" dual exhaust anyway.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:49 a.m. Tom Heath Webmaster

Klayfish wrote:

I think it's really that simple. Very few people buy them. Even before the recent days of the manumatics, traditional stick shifts weren't being sold much. Now that the manumatic is making it's way down to more "pedestrian" cars, people want them.

I've never owned a manumatic car, but I like my traditional 5 or 6 speed. It's sad to see them slowly fading away.

Not all manumatics are created equally, though. I like a few of the DSG/Twin clutch setups that I've tried (Mitsubishi EVO and Volkswagen come to mind) but there are a lot that simply suck.

I'm looking at you, Scion.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:53 a.m. That idiot who can't spell SuperDork

The Scion TC comes with a manual right.
Jan. 20, 2011 8:54 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

That idiot who can't spell wrote:

The Scion TC comes with a manual right.

Yessir
Jan. 20, 2011 9:00 a.m. EvanB Dork

Mitsubishi has a ralliart lancer that is turbo but less than the EVO, like WRX vs. STI. They only offer the ralliart with a twin clutch setup, no real manual.
Jan. 20, 2011 9:01 a.m. That idiot who can't spell SuperDork

Cool that is what I thought. One of my friends is buying a Toyota (because her dad can get her a discount) and she want something sporty. So that pretty much equals TC. And I talked her into a manual.
Jan. 20, 2011 9:02 a.m. minimac SuperDork

Many fewer warranty issues with an automatic. Out of our last eight cars here, the only automatic we have is in the '84 BMW. Just sayin'......
Jan. 20, 2011 9:05 a.m. alfadriver SuperDork

I just wish more of the manual diehards would buy new cars...

There are not enough as it is to make it that universal.
Jan. 20, 2011 9:16 a.m. Tom Heath Webmaster

I just wish new cars weren't so expensive.

A clutch-enhanced version of the TC might be great, but we're at the mercy of the press fleet for our test cars. Last week we had a new Civic Si with the 6-speed, and this week we have a TC with an automatic.

No comparison, but a manual transmission could only have helped the Scion.

(Look for new car reviews HERE every Monday.)
Jan. 20, 2011 9:29 a.m. wcelliot HalfDork
1. Certification costs to emissions certify a drivetrain that will not sell well anyway.
2. The hit on emissions and mileage. In current testing standards, it's easier to calibrate and certify an automatic. Remember the forced 1-4 shift in the early GM 6 speeds? They certianly didn't do that for performance reasons.
3. The majority of the buying public can't tell a difference between a traditional automatic with manual control and a true SMG... and the vast majority of casual enthusiasts being completely satified with the sporting pretentions of either over an actual manual transmission. So Marketing gets the benefit of selling a "sporty manual" without having to actually offer one.
4. Newer cars generally have so much power (look at the average power now vesus say 1990... it's basically doubled) that a manual is no longer "needed" to get more than adequate performance.
Jan. 20, 2011 9:45 a.m. mistanfo SuperDork

Tom Heath wrote:

I just wish new cars weren't so expensive.

Hear hear!
Jan. 20, 2011 10:01 a.m. mtn SuperDork

scardeal wrote:

Frankly, after 2 years, my opinion is that for day to day driving, having an automatic mode is really nice. You don't have to worry about stalling or rolling backwards on hills.

I read this and thought "you worry about rolling backwards in your driveway?"

I really need to get out of Illinois.
Jan. 20, 2011 10:26 a.m. hotg54b New Reader

How many people actually know how to drive manuals? Ask around you'll be surprised how many can't drive stick.
Jan. 20, 2011 10:32 a.m. wcelliot HalfDork

hotg54b wrote:

How many people actually know how to drive manuals? Ask around you'll be surprised how many can't drive stick.

And IMO that's one of the reasons that US drivers are so bad and getting worse...

My daughter (21) is the only one of her friends that can drive a manual... and she was none too happy that we forced her to learn back when she was 16.
Jan. 20, 2011 10:34 a.m. That idiot who can't spell SuperDork

Amazingly most of my friends know how to drive stick.
Jan. 20, 2011 10:39 a.m. EricM Dork

I won't mid having a car with the shift paddle/button/thingies on the steering wheel. I have seen it where drivers are faster because they never have to take their hands off of the steering wheel. They only have two pedals (and two feet) on the floor to worry about too.

A traditional automatic, not so much, but the Dual clutch ones or the semi manual (with a hold in a specific gear mode) ones sound pretty good to me.

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