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  • aircooled

    May 23, 2008 10:34 a.m. aircooled New Reader

    Just curious if anyone thinks oil will drop back down to double digits ever again?

    The reason I ask is because recently the congress passed a bill (Bush signed it, but noted he didn't want to, and I would have to agree with him) that stops the government from buying oil to fill the strategic reserve until oil goes below $75 a barrel!! I don't know about you, but I think it is a pretty damn good possibility that that will NEVER happen.

    Personally I think high oil is great in pointing out some of the arrogance of the US consumers and really is the only motivation that will get us going in the right direction. I of course do not like the general drag it has on the economy.

    The thing that really kills me about it though, is where most of the money is going (and no, not the oil companies). The oil produces (many of which are in the middle east) were making money on the oil when it was $30 a barrel, they now have a $100 a barrel profit on top of that!!! That just kills me. It also has the potential for creating some VERY well funded idiots...

  • gamby

    May 23, 2008 10:40 a.m. gamby UltraDork

    I guess it's easy to be apocalyptic and say "this is how it will be from here on in"--and that attitude/opinion might not be so crazy.

    Maybe we finally reached the end of the road for "cheap" oil. The doomsayers might have finally been right.

    Others say there will be an inevitable oil crash.

    I think the wakeup call this has given the States is a good thing, but it might be a Pyrrhic victory.

  • GameboyRMH

    May 23, 2008 10:41 a.m. GameboyRMH Dork

    No.

    Unfortunately the entire world has dragged their feet on alternative energy for too long. There was a relatively clean, carbon neutral option - nuclear power - but some NIMBYs who had read one too many 50s sci-fi comics didn't want that. Meanwhile the whole world looted and plundered the planet like there's no tomorrow. And now the whole world is at the mouth of shit's creek without a paddle (from an economic standpoint).

    From an environmental standpoint, we've been paddling down shit's creek like a ninja for some time and there's a waterfall ahead.

  • gamby

    May 23, 2008 10:48 a.m. gamby UltraDork

    GameboyRMH wrote: No.

    Unfortunately the entire world has dragged their feet on alternative energy for too long. There was a relatively clean, carbon neutral option - nuclear power - but some NIMBYs who had read one too many 50s sci-fi comics didn't want that. Meanwhile the whole world looted and plundered the planet like there's no tomorrow. And now the whole world is at the mouth of shit's creek without a paddle (from an economic standpoint).

    From an environmental standpoint, we've been paddling down shit's creek like a ninja for some time and there's a waterfall ahead.

    HIPPIE!!!1!1!

    COMMIE!1!!!!!1!

    FLAG HATER!1!!!!!1!1!

    FREEEDOM HAT3R!!!!1!!1!

    Go back to Russia and take your Prius with you! :grin:

  • Strizzo

    May 23, 2008 10:53 a.m. Strizzo HalfDork

    well, if you talk to people working for oil companies, the price of oil is(and has always been) cyclical. the price of oil will drop again, but how much is hard to say. prices being where they are right now means that unconventional resources like coal bed methane, oil sands, and heavy oil are now economical, so we can go after oil that we always knew was there, but just never could justify producing because of the costs.

  • foxtrapper

    May 23, 2008 12:30 p.m. foxtrapper New Reader

    Right, now follow the free market of those oil prices. It's sold on the open market, just like gasoline. The countries don't get to set the wildly high prices, nor do the oil companies. Instead, its because customers are outbidding each other. That's where the problem lies.

    So who are these customers outbidding each other, driving the price of oil and gasoline up? In no small measure, it's your retirement fund investors.

  • John Brown

    May 23, 2008 12:42 p.m. John Brown UltimaDork

    foxtrapper wrote: Right, now follow the free market of those oil prices. It's sold on the open market, just like gasoline. The countries don't get to set the wildly high prices, nor do the oil companies. Instead, its because customers are outbidding each other. That's where the problem lies.

    So who are these customers outbidding each other, driving the price of oil and gasoline up? In no small measure, it's your retirement fund investors.

    And China/EU/Russia.

    Remember they are hedging their money against the dollar.

  • May 23, 2008 12:57 p.m. mistanfo Dork

    I think that you mean double digits...

    aircooled wrote: Just curious if anyone thinks oil will drop back down to single digits ever again?

    The reason I ask is because recently the congress passed a bill (Bush signed it, but noted he didn't want to, and I would have to agree with him) that stops the government from buying oil to fill the strategic reserve until oil goes below $75 a barrel!! I don't know about you, but I think it is a pretty damn good possibility that that will NEVER happen.

    Personally I think high oil is great in pointing out some of the arrogance of the US consumers and really is the only motivation that will get us going in the right direction. I of course do not like the general drag it has on the economy.

    The thing that really kills me about it though, is where most of the money is going (and no, not the oil companies). The oil produces (many of which are in the middle east) were making money on the oil when it was $30 a barrel, they now have a $100 a barrel profit on top of that!!! That just kills me. It also has the potential for creating some VERY well funded idiots...

  • John Brown

    May 23, 2008 1:10 p.m. John Brown UltimaDork

    One thing everone is not putting into the Oil equation is theat oil is now valued in Euros... The Dollar is down against the Euro. Oil is automatically more expensive.

    today: 1.00 EUR = 1.57826 USD

    friday july 13, 2001 (arbitraly day randomly picked) 1 Euro = 0.85389 US Dollar

    A 50% drop in the worth of a dollar over a 7 year span versus the Euro.

  • Jay_W

    May 23, 2008 1:40 p.m. Jay_W HalfDork

    IT's not so much an increase in oil prices but a decrease in the value of the dollar. Looking at a chart showing the price of oil and the price of gold, they're almost in lockstep.

  • John Brown

    May 23, 2008 1:56 p.m. John Brown UltimaDork

    What does the US offer any more?

    Colleges, and speculation. That is all. Property values are tanking, manufacturing has been shipped off shore, we are no longer the engineering originators of the world.

    Figure out what we have that the rest of the world needs and the dollar will get stronger.

  • gamby

    May 23, 2008 2:20 p.m. gamby UltraDork

    John Brown wrote: One thing everone is not putting into the Oil equation is theat oil is now valued in Euros... The Dollar is down against the Euro. Oil is automatically more expensive.

    today: 1.00 EUR = 1.57826 USD

    friday july 13, 2001 (arbitraly day randomly picked) 1 Euro = 0.85389 US Dollar

    A 50% drop in the worth of a dollar over a 7 year span versus the Euro.

    rustles through drawer for sharp razor blade

  • confuZion3

    May 23, 2008 2:26 p.m. confuZion3 Reader

    Oil goes down every time I check it in my Miata . . . :cool:

  • John Brown

    May 23, 2008 2:28 p.m. John Brown UltimaDork

    gamby wrote:
    John Brown wrote: One thing everone is not putting into the Oil equation is theat oil is now valued in Euros... The Dollar is down against the Euro. Oil is automatically more expensive.

    today: 1.00 EUR = 1.57826 USD

    friday july 13, 2001 (arbitraly day randomly picked) 1 Euro = 0.85389 US Dollar

    A 50% drop in the worth of a dollar over a 7 year span versus the Euro.

    rustles through drawer for sharp razor blade

    You and me both brother,

    I really should have picked another date from when Billy was in office so that I do not offend the Republican Guard, but the Euro wasn't there in 1993.

  • phillyj

    May 23, 2008 2:50 p.m. phillyj New Reader

    1) I hear the OPEC countries have more money than they can spend and don't care if they produce anymore for the rest of the world.

    2) If US invests in digging for oil in the states or in the Gulf coast, then the prices might go down.

    3) If alternative fuels cause the demand for gasoline to go down, then its price will also go down

    The way the US went with ethanol/biofuel production was a mistake. It would have been better to invest in better research at first and then call for mandatory usage of biofuels in automobiles. This happened in the worst possible time, with increase demand for food, increased fuel prices and decreased dollar value. Nothing can be done but wait

  • AudiMike

    May 23, 2008 3:29 p.m. AudiMike Reader

    Gas prices will go down, not to what they were even 5 years ago, but they will. With the prices the way they are now, we are seeing lines up at the pump, here in Canada, when the price of gas goes below 1.20 / litre. This is approximately 5.00/ gallon or something bad like that.

    As was said above all we can do is wait and see what the outcome is when the prices do drop.

    Mike K

  • 16vCorey

    May 23, 2008 4:56 p.m. 16vCorey Dork

    phillyj wrote: .

    2) If US invests in digging for oil in the states or in the Gulf coast, then the prices might go down.

    Maybe. Last time they were trying to drill in Alaska, the oil was ear marked for China. We were still going to be buying the same amount of oil from the same people, but the government would get a little revenue from selling to China, and the contractors the were going to get A LOT of extra revenue for getting that oil out of the ground. The American people would not have been helped a bit by that plan.

  • ignorant

    May 23, 2008 6:46 p.m. ignorant UltraDork

    phillyj wrote: 3) If alternative fuels cause the demand for gasoline to go down, then its price will also go down

    I'd rewrite that to say.. If alternative fuels, conservation, and new cleaner tech cause the demand to go down then its price will also go down...

    Can't just have alternatives, we use too much of the crap...

  • HappyAndy

    May 24, 2008 1:04 a.m. HappyAndy New Reader

    I have a few thoughts on the topic of oil and gasoline prices, I am not sure if any of them are solidly based in truth but I will share them anyway. 1) Oil is priced in dollars. The value of the dollar is dropping like a rock, thus the cost to buy a barrel of oil has increased.

    2)But since the value of many competing curriencies has been on the rise independently of the dollars fall, it is becoming easier for some other nations to purchase oil despite its high price in dollars.

    3)There is more demand than ever for oil, and alternatives are dreadfully under developed. More people ,more houses, more buisnesses, and more cars and comercial vehicles(and thats just in the USA). Add to that the emerging middle class in asia and the demand is genuinely at record levels.

    4)Due to the colapse of the US realestate market investors (mostly speculators) are now investing in the next sure thing... oil and other energy comodities. Realestate bubble down/Oil bubble up. 5)I belive that there is an oil market bubble right now, but it is still in its early stages, as the realeste market continues to contract further and its effects ripple across the world economy, more speculating investors will push up the oil prices even if demand levels off (it will never decrease until supplies are truely drying up).

    6)The oil companies profit from high prices at the pump no matter what the cause. A little over a year ago I said that now that they figgured out that americans will pay three dollars a gallon they will do everthing in thier power to keep it there. Consumption has not gone down signifigantly, it at all, since gas was about a dollar a gallon in the late ninties; this fact has not escaped the notice of the oil companies. Also since the ninties the oil companies have been merginging and consolidating, as well as shutting down refineries(wether or not they are out of compliance). I have also noticed that there are far fewer gas stations on the streets, and indie gas stations are almost extinct. All of this leads to tighter control of the fuel supply and market by fewer companies. Not a monopoly, but possibly collusion. The anti-trust regulators have been silent on this as far as I can recall. They have been bothering microsoft instead. I imagine the oil companies have buildings full of lawyers coluding on just how to manipulate the market to the fullest extent possible with out running afowl of the law. And they can buy new laws when it is nessary.

    7) In conclusion, I expect that the price of crude and gas at the pump will continue to climb for a while longer, five dollars a gallon is definitly possible this year, where ever it peaks it will then fall back a bit. The cycle could repeat again after that.

    And hopefully consumers will then stop waiting for the government to fix the problem and start taking consevation measures in thier own hands. Demand better fuel effiency in all new products and take your own role in consevation to heart. My family can't afford a super fuel efficient new car right now, but the one we have is a 4cyl sedan, not an SUV, and I keep it in top possible tune, and we are working hard to combine as many trips as possible to reduce overall miles driven. I honestly do regret that there will be fewer road trips for us this year, that is probably the best part of car culture.

    Just my $.02 (and decreased to $.01679 due to the falling dollar durring the time it took me to write this rant)

  • Snowdoggie

    May 24, 2008 9:00 a.m. Snowdoggie New Reader

    It's just another part of our 'gambling casino' economy. Traders are actually borrowing money to speculate on oil futures, just like they borrowed money to speculate on houses a few years ago.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JE24Dj02.html

    Traders only have to put up $8 to buy $135 in oil futures. If oil keeps going up, they get rich. If oil crashes, they walk away and whoever they borrowed from, in this case probably an investment bank, gets stuck with the bill. Just like the investors who got screwed when all those mortgage based securities went south. Bear Sterns went down with the mortgage crisis. I predict that when oil prices finally do crash a few more big investment banks will crash too and the cry will go out for the Federal Government to bail out the banks with borrowed money.

    This goes beyond just having to pay more to fuel your car. Borrowing and speculating on the stock market just like this caused the crash of 1929 and the depression of the 1930s. :omg:

  • porksboy

    May 25, 2008 9:08 a.m. porksboy HalfDork

    Gasoline prices will go down in the U.S. by October. We have a major election in November. :twisted: (No political party bias intended nor implied.) If you have a way to stock up on gas that would be the right time. :nice:

  • internetautomart

    May 25, 2008 9:01 p.m. internetautomart SuperDork

    oil will fluctuate, but will never go below $3.5 a gallon for gasoline again. as we press for more fuel efficient vehicles, we increase our use of plastics and foams. what are plastic and foam made from? Petroleum!
    we are in a vicious cycle that we won't get out of. to many have to much invested for it to change ever.

  • RidgeRunner

    May 25, 2008 9:44 p.m. RidgeRunner New Reader

    confuZion3 wrote: Oil goes down every time I check it in my Miata . . . :cool:

    I have the same problem with my Saturn. :whatthe:

  • neon4891

    May 25, 2008 11:21 p.m. neon4891 Reader

    A friend of my father's is into hydrogen tech. This includes at home converters, gas/propane appliance conversions, and carburator conversions for gas engines. I know hydrogen can be dangerous, but I would rather risk my ass than blow my brains out when the gas card bill comes in.

    Edit Down side(other than blowing up) is that they have only managed to set it up on carburated/ non-emision controled engines.

  • MitchellC

    May 26, 2008 12:08 a.m. MitchellC New Reader

    Strange how in the past, the price at the gas station would move up once ever month, maybe but now it seems to go up every other day. Fuel execs are laughing all the way to the bank, thinking, "Man, why didn't we think of this earlier?!"

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