Will we run out of data to mine?

pinchvalve said:

Im a Marketing Professional, so data is my life.  I don't buy into any of the conspiracy theories about the government trying to collect data on us for nefarious purposes, frankly, they don't have the money or technology.  To understand why people like me want all your data, you have to look at the changes over the past 50 years.  If I wanted to reach kids of a certain age back then, I sponsored or ran a commercial during Howdy Doody.  It was on at 8pm, it was the only option, all kids were glued to it, simple. 

Fast forward to 2018, how do I get me message to a kid like mine?  He watches some over-the-air TV with commercial, some streaming TV with and without commercials, some stuff on YouTube, listens to music on his Amazon Echo, plays video games on an old iPhone, an XBox and a Wii, shops on Amazon, goes to the mall, rides in the car past billboards...the list goes on and he is only 7!  The more I know about your habits, and your parent's habits, and you grandparent's habits and your friends habits, and your community, your peers, your social circles, your influencers, your enemies...the better I can sell to you.  And I want to know about what you already own, how long you have had it, how often you use it, how much you like it, how often you replace it, as well as where you live, where you work, where you travel, whom you are married to or dating, what you like to eat, what you drive, your fashion sense, etc etc etc.  It allows me to create an in-depth profile and more precisely target you. 

The reason is that I no longer want to advertise to a large group of people and hope you see it, I want to advertise directly to you with a message that is specific to you that satisfies a need you have at a time when you are most likely to act on it. For example, if I know that you usually stop for breakfast on your way into work at 8am, I can pop an ad onto your nav screen for that sausage biscuit you loved at your sister's house, with a discount coupon timed precisely to get you to turn left into my restaurant instead of the right you normally make into Starbucks. 

All of that sounds like a whole lot of none of your business.   If my GPS starts spitting out ads, rather than providing directions to where i want to go, I'm throwing it in the trash.  And if you scoff and dismiss me as unrealistic, you are part of the problem.  You are not entitled to my data.  It is MINE.  Sure, some people cant stay off FB/IG/other social media, and give it away for free, but that IS NOT normal.  My privacy and data are valuable to me, and i set the price on those things, not fb/apple/google. 

We desperately need EU style data privacy laws in the US.   Or a worldwide EMP with a big red button that i control and can wipe everything whenever the mood strikes.  Both are amenable.  

SVreX said:

Data is not just about advertising.

I work for a BI consulting firm, and I can tell you that data science is changing all sorts of industries and applications.  Here's just a few: agriculture, fleet management, mining, manufacturing, customer support, education, medicine, insurance.

But they can also use it to improve their own engineering processes. Every component on every vehicle can be monitored in real time and real world applications. The entire Engineering process would change from being a static process on paper to a dynamic one in real time with real world performance measures. 

Heck, the tech would pay for itself if it prevented just 1 major recall.  The ROI on some of this non-marketing stuff is impressive.

Flynlow said:

...You are not entitled to my data.  It is MINE.  Sure, some people cant stay off FB/IG/other social media, and give it away for free, but that IS NOT normal.  My privacy and data are valuable to me, and i set the price on those things, not fb/apple/google. 

 

But it is pretty "normal" or common.  Ever used Google Maps, or Apple Maps?  Did you pay to use them, no.  Well, guess what your "payment" is?

People are generally pretty unaware of what they are actually doing though.  I heard a guy talking to a cashier about this app he had that tracked all his business expenses (sounded like Concur) and how it was free!  I didn't say it, but I wanted to say "oh,,, that's not free, they are getting something"  I am SURE that app was tracking almost everything he did.

In reply to captdownshift :

You need a PiHole on your home network, Firefox Focus on your phone, and Privacy Badger (at a minimum) on your desktop browser.

I also containerize social networks on my work computer using Mozilla's Multi-Account plugin.

Anyway, Facebook and Google are the two largest online ad providers in the world. They have a vested interest in not selling the data while trying to extract as much as possible from you to serve you the correct ad at the correct time for their clients. I understand why they do it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make it easy.

The data collection does have a purpose outside advertising. Understanding how users interact with your product often speeds up the continuous improvement cycle most products operate under. I don't have an issue with that as long as I know what is being sent and have the ability to opt out.

In reply to aircooled :

The "you're not the customer, you're the product" argument.  I disagree, and reiterate the need for data privacy laws.  It'll happen when we get enough legislators in Congress under the age of 200 who know the difference between a website and a series of tubes.  When i use google maps, i am not signed in to a user account, have all the "do not track"/privacy filters turned on, and do not "check in" or do any of that crap when i get where I'm going.  Its not enough, but it is what I can currently do.  

To clarify, i have no problem with anonymous data collection.  If 20,000 people google "hardywood brewery" in google maps to get directions vs 40,000 for "legends brewery", sell that data all you like. 

However, you do not have the right to sell my home location, the car i drive, that i go to the pub once a week, buy 2-3 beers and tip well.  That is mine.

Its a pretty clear difference, but the corporate sector has proven repeatedly they dont know how to appropriately draw those lines.  

Flynlow said:

In reply to aircooled :

has proven repeatedly they don't know how to appropriately draw those lines.  

 

 

Funny you should say that, I was going to make a comment along those lines. On the surface all of this could be used for better ads, reduced downtime, and other positives in the world.  Unfortunately "they" just don't know when to stop, whether its Facebook cannibalizing itself, Wells Fargo signing you up for credit cards you didn't know about, ect. If 100 mortgages are good, 100 million must be better! Thank you for the insight in this thread, I suppose I never thought of the actual benefits beyond just trying to sell stuff. 

In reply to The0retical :

Nah, I'm hoping that cars.com and autobytel will start sending me ads for cars that are now 8-12 years old that I previously said that I'd purchase when they drop below $xxxx 

In reply to Flynlow :

I feel the same way you do. 

But it’s not the way things are. 

GameboyRMH said:

STM317 said:

To those that say Government isn't interested or able to use this data: Chinese government has been requiring manufacturers of all electric cars in the country to track vehicle position 24/7 and share that info with the Chinese government.

The US government is interested and able, but China's government is in a whole different league...

Definitely. Even if less tyrannical governments don't use that data this proves that the car companies have the ability right now, and they're not really even trying to collect or use this data yet. So you can imagine what it might be like if they were actually trying to monetize it. The article linked above mentions an estimate that automotive data could be a $750 billion industry in just over 10 years. That's a lot of profit to be tempted by.

In reply to Flynlow :

BTW, a lot of your data is given away by your friends who betray you. 

Every time an app asks to “access your contacts”, people click “OK”. If you are in their contact list, your info just got shared. 

Same thing when they tag a picture on FaceBook. They share your name, location, etc. Then facial recognition software starts to connect you to other untagged pictures. 

Even if you are careful, your family and friends are giving you away. 

SVreX said:

In reply to Flynlow :

BTW, a lot of your data is given away by your friends who betray you. 

Every time an app asks to “access your contacts”, people click “OK”. If you are in their contact list, your info just got shared. 

Same thing when they tag a picture on FaceBook. They share your name, location, etc. Then facial recognition software starts to connect you to other untagged pictures. 

Even if you are careful, your family and friends are giving you away. 

A friend had her son wear a shirt that read 'big brother' to a cookout to let us know that they were expecting another baby. They had not told most of the family yet. At some point, a group photo was taken and uploaded to social media. Nobody was tagged in the photo, but the friend was auto tagged because of facial recognition which meant their entire family saw big brother's shirt and accidentally found out about the baby through social media. Friends had some explaining to do to family with hurt feelings after that.

The "family giving you away" part gets really interesting when it comes to the DNA/Geneology websites. There have been multiple criminal cases that have now been solved when a person submits their DNA to these sites and it ends up being a familial match to previously un identified DNA from the crime scene. You don't have to submit your DNA to these companies. If a family member does, they can link you and extrapolate your DNA based on the given sample.

In reply to STM317 :

Amazing. 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/07/tech/amazon-echo-alexa-bentonville-arkansas-murder-case/index.html

I was under the impression that these things “listened” but didn’t record.  Apparently I was wrong.  Minority Report is closer than we think.