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Otto Maddox
Otto Maddox Dork
12/16/11 3:07 p.m.

In reply to Datsun1500:

In this situation there is no sex drive because of medication. The individual is on medication because they are too lazy to control their health problems with diet and exercise.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury SuperDork
12/16/11 3:08 p.m.

I have nothing more to add other than that I came across this thread as I was listening to Imogen Heap - Hide & Seek ...kinda weird coincidence, and made me want to look away

Lesley
Lesley SuperDork
12/16/11 3:26 p.m.
Datsun1500 wrote:
Lesley wrote: Bingo. And there's nothing worse than a guy who wants to be part-time single – it's disrespectful to his partner, his wife, and the one he's lying to in order to get some.

I will ask again. Are you sure it is the guy that wants to step out in this thread? I'm getting the vibe that it's not.

Assuming it is the guy, is his wife not being disrespectful by refusing to be intimate?

Sorry, goes for either gender. IMO – if there's no working towards a solution, then end it decently, with respect.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
12/16/11 3:31 p.m.

This seems like the right thread for Asian Escort canoes. They make a great holiday gift.

Unless it is the woman... then we just want pics.

procainestart
procainestart Dork
12/16/11 3:33 p.m.

First, I gotta find more Imogen Heap -- dunno much of her music, but I like what I know...

Anywho, this sounds like a question for Dan Savage, but I'm pretty sure he'd tell the OP's friend to get out of the marriage unless the one who's potentially going to be cheated on is game for the cheater to go off and cheat (not likely). Of course, it all boils down to honesty and commitment; if you choose to be bound by these moral constraints, then an affair can't be on the table without mutual consent.

Meanwhile, and perhaps peripherally related, I recently read a compelling article about a couple who stayed in a bad marriage "for the kids." When the kids grew up and left, after the divorce, the parents divulged that they'd only remained married for them. The kids' sense of trust in their parents was pretty badly wrecked after that. Something to think about.

fasted58
fasted58 SuperDork
12/16/11 3:47 p.m.

Don't get involved in the relationship side but if you care enough about their survival together provide support to the slacker by offering to help w/ an exercise and fitness regimen.

fasted58
fasted58 SuperDork
12/16/11 3:48 p.m.

... and moral support

NotMe
NotMe New Reader
12/16/11 5:25 p.m.
Datsun1500 wrote: I will ask again. Are you sure it is the guy that wants to step out in this thread? I'm getting the vibe that it's not. Assuming it is the guy, is his wife not being disrespectful by refusing to be intimate?

I almost hate to jump in again, divulging more than I intended to but this is a question which bears answering. Of course my answer doesn't apply to the OPs friends but it's not always a matter of refusal or disrespect.

Long before I met her my wife was a victim of rape. Needless to say the fact that we were ever to have any type of intimacy at all is probably pretty amazing but it's not like this is just refusal because she doesn't want to please me, it's about putting herself in a situation which traumatizes her. It is one of the reasons we have been going to counseling, she needs to work through these issues, not for us, but for her and I need to support her in whatever way I can.

As to the poster who asked why it had to be one way or the other, why not just say "I'm not getting it at home so I'm getting it elsewhere" Well I'd say if both parties in the relationship are actually comfortable with that arrangement then that is fine. And while I know people with very comfortable open marriages I will say that most people really cannot deal with the levels of trust that takes even though they think they can. So its an area where one would need to tread lightly and be very certain everyone is comfortable with it. In my case I know my wife would not be comfortable with it, so then yes it does become an issue of accept the situation or divorce, if you love someone enough to commit to a relationship with them then you love them enough to account for their feelings in such a matter and don't just go out and "get yours"

Trust me, I've tried to find a way to justify it in my mind, and I'm sure plenty of others do as well, but either you meant what you said when you took those vows and you man up and live by them or you dissolve them by way of divorce.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 SuperDork
12/16/11 5:48 p.m.

I think I have it figured out. It's the female half of the couple that's itchin' fer some lovin', and the OP figures he's the man for the job.

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
12/16/11 5:50 p.m.
1988RedT2 wrote: I think I have it figured out. It's the female half of the couple that's itchin' fer some lovin', and the OP figures he's the man for the job.

The first part of your hypothesis sounds accurate, I think he hasn't realized (as SVRex pointed out) that he could very well end up as her "target" if not careful.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
12/16/11 6:43 p.m.

What's fair about "for better or for worse"?

Sounds like the "for worse" part...

Not trivializing. Just don't get "fair".

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
12/16/11 7:15 p.m.

I have to agree with Paul once again. Things change, anyone who enters into a long term relationship and thinks that things won't change is a fool. If you are lucky you change together and grow together. Im not an idealist, I know that isn't always the case. Im not anit-divorce, just saying that you should give it an effort.

I'm not saying you have to "live with it" if things are bad, but you should damn sure put an effort in before you bail on it. And if it isn't good and it can't be fixed then step up and admit it, go through the divorce, having an affair isn't the answer to the issue.

I've had many friends who got divorced only to really discuss the issues leading to it during the divorce procedures, it's amazing what people can work through if they discuss it rather than let it build up until they feel the need to leave.

I'm not sure what I'd do in NotMe's situation, I won't even begin to speculate on that one. But I commend the effort to at least try and work through it before just throwing it all away. I married young, too young and we "quit while we were friends". On one hand we maintained a good relationship, without animosity which has been great for our daughter, on the other hand if I had been more mature and just discussed what bothered me we might have salvaged that relationship.

gamby
gamby SuperDork
12/16/11 7:21 p.m.
procainestart wrote: First, I gotta find more Imogen Heap -- dunno much of her music, but I like what I know...

This one's outside of the box:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcGHjBeac

...but it's pretty f'in awesome

davidjs
davidjs Reader
12/16/11 7:28 p.m.

On another point, if the friend who is thinking about "stepping out" keeps talking to you, I'd tell them it makes you uncomfortable to be put into the middle of it, and that you {whatever your decision ends up being}, but that you don't feel comfortable knowing about it, because you do consider yourself friends with either.

Just as (IMO) it's not fair for them to cheat, it's also not fair to you to be put in the middle. Then you're in the position of keeping someone else's secret.

NotMe
NotMe New Reader
12/16/11 8:05 p.m.
Datsun1500 wrote:
NotMe wrote: but either you meant what you said when you took those vows and you man up and live by them or you dissolve them by way of divorce.

From what I read in the OP, there was not always an issue with the couple, something changed over the years. I think that is different. If you went into your marriage knowing about the rape and what issues that brings to the table then yes, you need to stick to your word. You knew what you were signing up for from the beginning.

If your wife did not tell you about the rape and her issues with it and was OK with having sex with you while dating, but 5 years into the marriage said she would not have sex anymore because of it, would that be fair?

In other words if everything was fine for awhile then changed and the person who changed did not want to do anything about it, why is the other person "stuck"?

Well first off, yes I was aware of the situation when we started getting serious and before we married. However our, um, relationship, was still very normal at that time. As time went on it grew worse due to repressed trauma, etc. So I knew what I was getting into, but not quite.

But I'm not saying anyone is stuck, right now she is working to change, but let's assume that she says that's it, I can't change, it will always be this way. Ok, I'm not stuck, I have the option to divorce her and move on. Going out and having an affair is not getting "unstuck" its just putting myself in front of all else and not respecting the feelings of the person I at least claim to love.

You do not have to be "stuck" but you can be an adult and take some responsibility, if sex is more important than the rest of the relationship you have together (and I won't pass judgement on anyone if it is) then so be it, you can move on, but do so on the up and up and do the right thing.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
12/16/11 8:57 p.m.
davidjs wrote: On another point, if the friend who is thinking about "stepping out" keeps talking to you, I'd tell them it makes you uncomfortable to be put into the middle of it, and that you {whatever your decision ends up being}, but that you don't feel comfortable knowing about it, because you do consider yourself friends with either. Just as (IMO) it's not fair for them to cheat, it's also not fair to you to be put in the middle. Then you're in the position of keeping someone else's secret.

I am not of the opinion that keeping out of it will maintain friendships with both parties.

Friends share important stuff. Good or bad. Telling them you don't want to know about something that is important is akin to telling them that you don't want to be their friend.

Like I said earlier, it will hurt. But a true friend is willing to be vulnerable and walk with their friend through difficult times.

Part of the pain is that it may not be possible for you to maintain both friendships.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 Dork
12/17/11 8:23 p.m.
NotMe wrote:
Datsun1500 wrote:
NotMe wrote: but either you meant what you said when you took those vows and you man up and live by them or you dissolve them by way of divorce.

From what I read in the OP, there was not always an issue with the couple, something changed over the years. I think that is different. If you went into your marriage knowing about the rape and what issues that brings to the table then yes, you need to stick to your word. You knew what you were signing up for from the beginning.

If your wife did not tell you about the rape and her issues with it and was OK with having sex with you while dating, but 5 years into the marriage said she would not have sex anymore because of it, would that be fair?

In other words if everything was fine for awhile then changed and the person who changed did not want to do anything about it, why is the other person "stuck"?

Well first off, yes I was aware of the situation when we started getting serious and before we married. However our, um, relationship, was still very normal at that time. As time went on it grew worse due to repressed trauma, etc. So I knew what I was getting into, but not quite.

But I'm not saying anyone is stuck, right now she is working to change, but let's assume that she says that's it, I can't change, it will always be this way. Ok, I'm not stuck, I have the option to divorce her and move on. Going out and having an affair is not getting "unstuck" its just putting myself in front of all else and not respecting the feelings of the person I at least claim to love.

You do not have to be "stuck" but you can be an adult and take some responsibility, if sex is more important than the rest of the relationship you have together (and I won't pass judgement on anyone if it is) then so be it, you can move on, but do so on the up and up and do the right thing.

I don't think it's just the sex... there's much more to it. If one member isn't doing any maintenance to their body or the relationship it takes a drag off the person who is. The toughest is the kids.... I don't think I have a problem with someone messing around on their wife - I sorta feel like its really just their girlfriend until a kid is involved.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn SuperDork
12/17/11 10:01 p.m.
Friends share important stuff. Good or bad.

It may be dependent on age or gender or something else, but I can't imagine any of my friends would ever tell me they were having an affair - it's just not the sort of thing guys talk about, at least in my experience.

BAMF
BAMF Reader
12/18/11 9:15 a.m.

In my first marriage, I was cheated on by my ex-wife. That's a painful situation to be in. The circumstances of that relationship were totally different than those outlined by the OP (we were young, no kids, etc.).

It's all well and good to talk of commitments and promises, but eventually it comes down to respect. Sneaking around isn't respectful (a discreet arrangement could be). Then again, a complete lack of intimacy isn't either.

Sex is a very strong biological drive in most species on this planet, ours included. It may not be more important than the other parts of the relationship, but it's still important.

My advice to the OP would be to reaffirm your support to your friends. I would encourage them to start talking about this matter with one another.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
12/18/11 9:35 a.m.
gamby wrote:
procainestart wrote: First, I gotta find more Imogen Heap -- dunno much of her music, but I like what I know...

This one's outside of the box:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcGHjBeac

...but it's pretty f'in awesome

I feel dumb for never making the connection that Imogen Heap was the singer for Frou Frou.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
12/18/11 6:19 p.m.

I say stay out of it unless you are asked directly. If so, then be honest.

Sky_Render
Sky_Render Reader
12/19/11 10:14 a.m.

My wife cheated on me and then simply disappeared.

Affairs are ugly, ugly things. Run away. Far away.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
12/19/11 10:16 a.m.
Sky_Render wrote: My wife cheated on me and then simply disappeared.

This sounds like a perfect solution many a man's problem. How do you make them disappear?

Sky_Render
Sky_Render Reader
12/19/11 10:17 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
Sky_Render wrote: My wife cheated on me and then simply disappeared.

This sounds like a perfect solution many a man's problem. How do you make them disappear?

I would be angry at your comment if I wasn't laughing so hard.

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