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aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/29/17 9:45 a.m.

Yeah, I have been saving. It always asks to save, so I am not sure that is even a bug, just kind of a bad interface.  I even tried new spots.  If you have a chance, maybe double check me.  Might only be the Ferrari?

I saw they are doing an intake restrictor adjustment on the Ferrari.  I did not realize it was supposed to be too fast, I only tested a few cars and it sounded the best.  I am not sure I am consistent enough for it to make much of a difference though.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
11/29/17 10:05 a.m.

I knew it was fast, if you check the leaderboards it’s typically one of the top times, but it didn’t seem like it was unreasonably fast. I actually think the AMG (if you can get it to stop without spinning) is the fastest. Top speed around Daytona in the AMG was 7-9 mph faster than anything else. 

I was down to either the NSX or the RS01.  I ended up with the Renault because I was slightly more consistent and it has an extra gear (7). I was hoping that would help me get out of corners faster, but it turns out it is one of the slower GT3s. Oh well. 

I’ve been thinking about series 2 a bit as well. I want to do an open wheel spec series and was thinking about Formula C. But, I’m now thinking that we all drive Air’s Lotus around club and national circuits. A bit off topic, but any thoughts on that?

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/29/17 12:34 p.m.

I am of course all in for the Lotus, but you guys will have to drive it and see if it is as enjoyable as I find it.  The car seems to really prefer a bit of drifting to turn.

I will have to try out the Formula C and see what they are like.

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
11/29/17 7:16 p.m.

The restrictors would make a handy way to handicap races.  It would take a little experimentation to know how much.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/30/17 12:31 a.m.

Interesting race.  I think I just spent too much time on track before the race.  By half way through the race I was getting a bit dizzy and losing concentration.  I think I spun 5 times in that race.  Most of the times I had enough of a lead to keep it but got a massive shunt by an AI car into the sand at the corkscrew near the end.  I should have just paced down for the last half.

Also, be very careful to keep copies of your setups.  I ran into the same issue with gearing as I did with brake balance in Cayman.  I changed the gearing and ended up with full tall gears no matter what I set the gears to.  I had to revert to an older version to reset the gears.

I also realized during the race I somehow started with over 100 (liters?) of fuel again!!, despite having it at 61 in the settings.  I really hope someone else is noticing these setup bugs.  I did not see any mention of it in the patch about to be released.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
11/30/17 12:03 p.m.

Points and standings are updated.  Air and his cheater :) Italian scream machine are taking a slight lead.  Argo is on the comeback trail after missing the opener.  Spool and Dean are still stuck in the garage.  No new contenders have emerged.

 

My race last night was abysmal.  Air clearly had the pace for pole, but I was P2 a mere 1.2 seconds back.  In practice I was able to run consistently in the high 27s to mid 28s.  So I started trying to tweak a qualifying specific setup to catch Air.  I think somewhere between having a race setup and qualy setup I changed a setting that I never set back to the right in my race setup.  Race starts and I get blown away by the 2-3 positions behind me at the start.  I keep my line and am about P4 going into turn 3.  I get a little bit of slip trying to push and then am aided by an AI with a slight tap.  I get to go around all the way and watch the entire field go by.  I put the hammer down and start chasing.  My pace in qualifying should easily have me past the back markers and maybe get back into a Top 10, best case Top 5 spot.  I make it past 2 cars, but then the handling on my car seems to start going away.  Check of my tires and they are about 5 psi up on where they should be and running yellow (too hot).  A few corners later, I can't keep the slipping under control and loop it.  Back to last.  I try and focus on clean lap for the next few laps and I'm not making up any time on last place.  I'm about 7 seconds back and am just staying there.  I try to push harder, and loop it.  Rinse and repeat.  Add a contact with the wall doing damage and I just said the hell with it and pit to repair damage.  That got me lapped by the entire field, but I came out right on the back of the cars in the position in front of me.  So I at least had someone to race against.... for a couple corners, until my tires over heated again.  Whatever.  Worst race I've had in a long while.

I'll post up the replay in a bit.  You can watch Air and Argo's race.  There's no point in suffering through my race.

 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
11/30/17 12:05 p.m.
aircooled said:

 

I also realized during the race I somehow started with over 100 (liters?) of fuel again!!, despite having it at 61 in the settings. 

Right now, in between each session, you have to specifically go to the tuning menu.  You don't actually have to do anything there, just open it.  You'll see the fuel load change to what you setup and then you can back out and select Ready.  Hopefully the patch will make it to PS4 soon.  It's already on PC and Xbox.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/30/17 3:56 p.m.

I also noticed tire pressure was a bit high.  Might have been a bit hotter then testing.  I am sure all that sliding around wasn't helping either. surprise  I did also notice a traction drop off.  Tires where only slightly worn, but that could have been it, or just loss of concentration.

The funny part of the night was during qualifying when I had a good time and just experimenting and spotted Argo (I think I spun and he went by), and I though "oh fun, someone to play with".  I charged to catch up with him and got right up on him going into the corkscrew (backed off of course).  I guess he saw me because he went straight off the end!  Oh well, no one to play with.  I guess that was going to be a fast lap for him though....

I am suspicious some of the AI stupidity was the result of the glitchy connection.  My shunt did seem a lot like a glitch shunt since the AI cars tend to brake a bit early, and I certainly was not casually braking. You guys should do what I do, just qualify first and it's not an issue. cheeky Your start may have been the result of the gearing thing I was talking about.  You can't tell by the settings because they are wrong and don't do anything, you will just have to compare to a clean setup.  That is the way I figured mine out, it would bog like hell at the start (practice race) when normally I would get a bit of tire spin.  Checking RPM leaving the pits (constant speed) is also a good way to see if it changes.

I should have my headset for next week.  Argo should win since he has done many laps around the real track... no pressure.  Also, are you guys using speakers and a mike, or headsets?  I am getting a lot of feedback (I can hear my echo) from either one or both of you.  The voice is also SUPER loud, but maybe there is a setting for that?

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
11/30/17 5:59 p.m.

Brad's host connection was poor so there was a lot of AI glitching. I got punted similar to you with a late brake AI car. I also may or may not have pit manuevered my way into second... 

I use a headset for sound and Mic. My cheap set doesn't have a Mic off switch or volume adjust.  I believe that the PS4 has Mic volume settings. We will have to try to get them better adjusted.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
11/30/17 7:28 p.m.

In reply to Argo1 :

It’s your headset that echos. Not sure why, but it’s super sensitive. I can hear your engineer talking to you. You don’t echo, but we echo when we talk. I think it’s your mic picking us up on your speakers. 

As far as the connection, that was the first time we’ve seen any significant lagging. I did confirm my wife was on her phone shopping and watching Netflix, not sure if that contributed but I’m going to run a cat5 cable before next week. That’ll be a 1gb to the router, then 100mbs to the net. Hopefully we won’t have any issues going forward. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/30/17 9:10 p.m.

A few pics I took a while back and finally figured out how to get them off the PS4.  It seems like posting them to (argh) Facebook is the easiest way.

Brad, what is the best way to get videos off?  I am not even sure how to record them (PS4 menu or from within PC?)

 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
11/30/17 9:43 p.m.

In reply to aircooled :

So for videos I stream the replays to Twitch and then export to YouTube. 

Pics are a pain. I created a dedicated Twitter account. I’m not sure if that is better than dropping them to a usb.

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
12/1/17 5:51 p.m.
BradLTL said:

In reply to Argo1 :

It’s your headset that echos. Not sure why, but it’s super sensitive. I can hear your engineer talking to you. You don’t echo, but we echo when we talk. I think it’s your mic picking us up on your speakers. 

I don't use speakers.  I will try using the PS4 to turn down the mic sensitivity.

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
12/5/17 4:51 p.m.

I did some testing at Road America, a very high speed track.  It's pretty clear the Ferrari is not as fast as it was a Laguna (I suspect its a slower track car).  I had to make some adjustments to keep up with the AI cars.  Not that difficult of a track.  Turn 6 is pretty hidden, but the bridge makes it pretty obvious so start turning before you get there.  The Kink is a real pain in the Ferrari for some reason.  It's clear the AI cars can go all out thought there, but even with some tuning the Ferrari is VERY marginal through that without lifting.  I will definitely be lifting for later in the race (when traction seem to go down a bit).

The Carousel should be good as a skid pad testing spot, but also clearly shows how these cars just REALLY want to understeer.  Not sure what it would take to get the Ferrari to do a mild drift around it, but I suspect it would be very undriveable otherwise.

BTW - the best way to test tunes, or just get used to the track is to run a race, then quite then restart the race to change a tune.  This avoids having to warm up the tires, which can take quite a while.

 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
12/5/17 6:24 p.m.

I rewired my basement for this race. PSN tells me that I’m 55mbs down and 5mbs up. Hopefully that’ll eliminate the lag issues we saw last week. 

I ran some very inconsistent test laps. High 13s are probably the best I can hope for, more laps in the 14s, with race pace likely in the 15s. I was having a weird issue coming off a hard brake where the backend would come around on me. I suspect I just need to be easier on the inputs. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
12/5/17 7:23 p.m.

I have noticed that (at least with these cars) they almost refuse to turn while braking (thus my turn in issues).  Trailing off the brakes in a turn and trailing on the gas coming out are a huge help (and a good driving technique anyway).  I suspect rapidly releasing the brakes is effectively causing a very rapid steering input.

I am still a bit suspicious on how these cars spin though.  The car will start sliding (I do a fair amount of that cheeky), then you can feel the front tires loose grip at which point the spin is unavoidable since you now have no steering.  I really have no idea why the fronts would loose grip while countersteering.  Maybe an ABS thing? (kind of the opposite of what ABS is supposed to do though) I am now running far less ABS (below 50) which seems to help.  I might go lower and reduce my brake pressure.  There are just soo many things to mess with in this game / these cars, it's hard to fully test all options.

Just make sure you can do The Kink at full tilt though.  Otherwise the AI cars will run your a** over!

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
12/5/17 7:32 p.m.

I’ve found the Kink can be taken at full tilt, you just have to nail the turn in point. For me it is just before the last brake marker and aim for the yellow curb. 

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
12/5/17 10:41 p.m.

The kink can be taken at full throttle without a lift IF you hit the turn in exactly right.  I miss the cones that were there in driver's school to mark the turn in point.  The kink is a full on pucker factor corner without a lift in a Skip Barber car.

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
12/5/17 10:50 p.m.
aircooled said:

I have noticed that (at least with these cars) they almost refuse to turn while braking (thus my turn in issues).  Trailing off the brakes in a turn and trailing on the gas coming out are a huge help (and a good driving technique anyway).  I suspect rapidly releasing the brakes is effectively causing a very rapid steering input.

I haven't had as many handling issues as you have.  Most of mine have been traced to cockpit software.  I have found that rapidly jumping off the brakes unloads the front tires and causes some strange issues.  I've managed to tame the 911 decently well but I need to mess with the ABS as well.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
12/6/17 7:21 a.m.

It strikes me that from all the descriptions of things these cars are rather un realistic in terms of the various effects.  

Realistically how bad are the AI cars. The number one comment I keep seeing is that an AI car is crashing you out. That does not seem very real to me at all. However programming a car to think ahead and anticipate the other drivers move based on the here and now through observing a competitor is dam ne’er impossible. 

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
12/6/17 7:36 a.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

Dean, everything from pace to aggression is adjustable for the AI cars.  We are all still learning this sim.  Running with full fields is a large plus.  You have a PS4.  Come race with us.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
12/6/17 8:41 a.m.

In reply to dean1484 :

I actually think the AI is ok.  They don't just ram you, typically when you are hit, you've done something to provoke it (although, none of us are going to admit to it).  I keep the aggression pretty low.  I'm not interested in them ruining my race, I do that well enough.  Watch the replays, specifically the first turn on the first lap, based on the human races I've seen online, the AI is way more respectful.

I think the handling of the cars is really good.  I'm with Argo, my "handling" issues are all located in the cockpit.  My braking issue went away when I focused on smooth pressure and inputs.  My issue is that I get excited and suddenly think I'm driving GT6 and start stomping the gas / brake.  Then I'm at the mercy of traction control, ABS, and the limits of traction... which this game takes serious.

You might as well come race with us, I've already got you down in the standings.  Think about it like this... you can beat Spool.  :)

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
12/6/17 11:15 a.m.

I don't think the AI is that bad either.  Honestly, when you do get shunted, it happens way less then actual drivers(!).  And yes, you do tend to drive more aggressively around AI (e.g. you can easily force them out of the way).  When I got shunted at Laguna, I did shift in front of the AI car before the corner (I think its at about 27 min into the replay video).  A decent real driver probably would not have expected that and no hit me, but as noted, I suspect there was a bit of a delay because I had been seeing some minor glitching.

The handling "issues" I am having seems to mostly be related to these particular cars.  I am highly suspicious the traction control and ABS have a lot to do with it (maybe they are not perfectly emulated?)  Believe me, jump in that old Jag I took a picture of in the hotlinks thread and there is NO issue getting oversteer out of that!

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
12/6/17 4:39 p.m.
aircooled said:

  I am highly suspicious the traction control and ABS have a lot to do with it (maybe they are not perfectly emulated?)  Believe me, jump in that old Jag I took a picture of in the hotlinks thread and there is NO issue getting oversteer out of that!

Check your settings on those.  They work backwards from what I was expecting.  I was adjusting them the wrong way until I read the help message.  You might think you are turning them down, but you are actually increasing their effect.

Also, I'm super excited for the race tonight.  I'm going on 2.5 hours of sleep.  I'm just hoping to survive.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
12/7/17 8:49 a.m.

Last night is best describe as: what could have been.  Qualifying had Argo on the pole, Brad in P2, and Air in P3.  The Renault (as previously described) is kinda a dog off the line and down the straights, so there was very little chance of me holding my position at the start.  The lines go green and Argo pulls 2-3 car lengths ahead with Air directly on his tail.  Just as he clears my nose, Air darts over in front of me to try and setup a move into T1.  He wasn't able to do it, and we all tuck into a line through T3.  The draft plus the Ferrari's speed get him by Argo heading to turn 5.  Argo plays safe in the braking zone to T5, and I am able to easily get by on the inside.  Air seemed to have overcooked it a bit, so I'm close to him by the time we exit.  Being close kinda ruins my visibility, and not wanting to punt anyone ruins my line a bit, and so Air is able to pull out a couple car lengths on me as we continue on the lap.  I make up a little space going into Canada corner and am trying to build some momentum through T13.  Air gets wide going through the final corner and ends up on the grass.  I'm trying to maximize my pace through the corner to over take him and get a bit of a gap before T1....

...Then Air makes his "recovery" gaining traction as he is perpendicular to the track.  His car pulls directly in front of me at full acceleration in 3rd gear.  I hit him directly in the passenger door.  The hit sends me off into the grass and into the inside wall.  Air is flipped and rolled in front of me towards the pit entrance and comes to a stop (at least on my screen) on his roof.  About that time Argo drives by, and I hear on the headset "Thanks guys".

frown

Severe damage required a lengthy pit stop and no hope of gaining any additional positions.  So I spent the rest of the night running laps... until Argo decided to have a mental lapse and self inflict some wounds.  One of which occurred at Canada corner, just before I came around it.  For the second time in the race, I found myself accelerating out of a corner only to have another driver pull out in front of me.  I smash into Argo's front right quarter panel and add to his already mangled car, causing front aero damage on my car.  That damage cost me about 6-7 seconds a lap in pace... not that it mattered for anything.

Points are updated.  Apparently there is a 1GB limit for replays/photos, so I couldn't save the replay from last night.  Argo is working on uploading it.  As soon as it is available, I'll post it as well.

 

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