In reply to Daylan C :
Dude, even being able to turn a lap on a controller is a feat. I gave it like 10 minutes and gave up.
In reply to Daylan C :
Dude, even being able to turn a lap on a controller is a feat. I gave it like 10 minutes and gave up.
On an unrelated note, I thought Knockhill was a different track, this definitely isn't one I much care for. My baseline setup is as good a place as any to start I guess, but this track is so bumpy it's going to take some effort to get the car to really work here regardless of where you start. It'll be a good exercise in suspension tuning though, especially shocks.
In reply to Daylan C :
"Competitive" comes in several versions. I was "only" about a second off of Sauce's pace in qualifying however if you take my mean average lap time factored by all the time I spent mowing grass ( lets see....mean average factored by the coefficient of friction of grass divided by the square root of the curb height...carry the one...Yep) our average lap times were about the same. I had an off at least every other lap the whole race...starting on lap one.
The left hand Brundle at the end of the straight is one of the places on the track that you have to go less than maximum in order to line up the best line and exit of the following right hander. The line is worth .75 of a second in overall lap time. Brad was not onboard with this theory and stuck his nose under me and we came together. We both launched over the tall curbs but didn't wind up upsidedown like I did last time. We both continued as damage must have been turned off. On lap two I missed my braking point into the turn trying to prevent a repeat That dropped me to 12th. I set off in pursuit eventually getting to 4th only to go off trying to pass for 3rd. Now back in 9th. Off we go again. Back up to 4th and get taken out by a bot from behind. Again... Anyway I'm sure that I passed more cars than anybody last night. Eventually passing 4 cars in the last lap and a half to finish 5th. Not exactly my finest race. Maybe I will actually practice this week.
However, Knockhill sucks. Short, narrow, no racing room. Going to be a mess.
Argo1 said:The left hand Brundle at the end of the straight is one of the places on the track that you have to go less than maximum in order to line up the best line and exit of the following right hander. The line is worth .75 of a second in overall lap time. Brad was not onboard with this theory and stuck his nose under me and we came together. We both launched over the tall curbs but didn't wind up upsidedown like I did last time.
Through thorough analysis, Argo's racing line has been illustrated by the yellow line in the above graphic. This line can be seen being deployed in the now posted race replay. Brad and Sauce's race line is shown for comparison.
Also, points updated.
In reply to BradLTL
I'm sorry, who was faster? You or I?
In reply to Argo1 :
Sauce by about 3 seconds...
Besides, there was no point in wasting my time bettering your time in qualifying. You weren't going to be there for long.
In reply to BradLTL :
Took the liberty of adding a few of my lines.
Edit: I see you gave me points for 11th even though I left early. Cool, but you didn't have to.
Argo, after watching the replay I'm with Brad. If I were behind you and you took that line I would have done exactly the same thing. That is not what I would consider a "normal" line, and I would have assumed you overcooked the entry and the door was open.
Edit: After watching more of the replay Argo's line when he wasn't in traffic was a lot closer to what Brad and I were running. However, the first couple of laps the entry was much wider/later than everyone else.
In reply to e30Matt :
I overcooked it often into there but that wasn't my planned line. I overcooked it into a few others as well. Mostly I was just sleep deprived and erratic on Wednesday. This week I'm not traveling and hope to show up rested and better prepared.
In reply to Argo1 :
An admission of guilt!
Scott Speed would be proud. (Apparently Speed wrecking people in Sims is a thing... Google it)
You know, once your kids learn to talk, it's all downhill from there. 50.05 at Knockhill National compares reasonably well against the leader board. Feels pretty stable. This track is really small. Traffic and passing are going to be big issues.
If anyone wants I don't mind breaking down Snetterton 200 and how I tuned for it. Though it's a fairly simple track there are a couple small things that make a huge difference, especially in these cars.
In reply to e30Matt :
I’m interested. There wasn’t a lot of differences in our laps. Driver experience on the track counts a good bit, but the main difference was the ability to power out Nelson and Murrays. I was tip-toeing out of the corners and you seemed to be able to put down power consistently.
Basically I tuned for two turns: Riches and Murrays, and for off-throttle stability. A setup that works for those two corners is adequate for the rest of the track. Not ideal, but works reasonably well. The reason I chose those two corners was because they both have decent straights after them and they have minor irregularities. Most of the track is pretty smooth, those two spots aren't.
Riches, depending on your line, has either one large bump or two small ones. The tight line has a large bump at entry, but is smooth after that. The wider, probably more "normal" line has a less pronounced bump at entry, but also has a small bump mid-corner. Because that second bump is before the car fully takes a set it isn't quite as noticeable, and causes a loss of stability mid-corner. Unless you know it's there it pretty much feels like an effect of the first bump, that the car just isn't responding to the bump and turning at the same time. Tuning for that second bump (once I discovered it) is what I spent a ridiculous amount of time on. I'm sure the super fast lap guys can take T1 flat and I tried REALLY hard to be able to do that but never got there. If you watch the onboard from my replay you can see that I brush the brakes before the corner, hold the lift for a moment over the first bump, but after that I'm flat until braking for the next hairpin. The key point was getting the car to take the second bump without upsetting the balance, and that ended up requiring some weird shock settings both left to right and front to rear. This is also why I softened the springs.
Murrays is a corner where you know there's a bump, but it's small so you don't really think about it. The problem is that it isn't just one bump, it's actually several, and only if you're close to the apex. If you run wide at entry it's pretty smooth. With these cars, if you take the proper line the difference between when you get on throttle is solely based on how the car handles those bumps. This is where my increased ride height came from. The rest of the shock tuning from T1 was good enough here, but raising the ride height prevented the shocks bottoming out and made it easy to get on throttle early without bouncing wide over the bumps.
The other part that made everything else work was the off-throttle stability. There isn't a straight way to go into Nelson or Murrays and these cars are twitchy, especially under decel. Being able to float the car in, let the engine braking work and get some, but not too much, rotation was a challenge. However, if you got it right, the stability at entry and mid-corner would make it easy to set up the real corner and exit. For Nelson I would brake and downshift after the first marker, but after that was mostly coasting towards the Brundle apex to set up a straight braking zone for Nelson. Murrays was similar in that I could lift off, get the car pointed in a direction, and then create a straight braking zone for the final corner. This is mostly where the big front sway bar came in. A byproduct of having a stable entry is that i's easier to have a stable exit. Making the entries to those two corners predictable was huge, and probably where I gained the most time.
BradLTL said:In reply to Argo1 :
An admission of guilt!
Scott Speed would be proud. (Apparently Speed wrecking people in Sims is a thing... Google it)
And here you go....
https://compete.kotaku.com/former-nascar-driver-scott-speed-suspended-from-iracing-1822694688
Argo1 said:50.05 at Knockhill National compares reasonably well against the leader board. Feels pretty stable. This track is really small. Traffic and passing are going to be big issues.
I'm about the same. This track has a couple fairly high risk vs. reward corners that I need to spend some more time on. I'm happy enough with the setup, just need to work on being consistent through those sections.
e30Matt said:Argo1 said:50.05 at Knockhill National compares reasonably well against the leader board. Feels pretty stable. This track is really small. Traffic and passing are going to be big issues.
I'm about the same. This track has a couple fairly high risk vs. reward corners that I need to spend some more time on. I'm happy enough with the setup, just need to work on being consistent through those sections.
I'm working on the same. I'm having trouble imagining 16 cars in those high risk corners...
Looks like I missed a good one. I always enjoy a good Brad / Argo fur ball. I took those two corners like Argo was ( swing a bit wide to setup a more straight braking zone), so I probably would have been taken out by Brad also.
I will likely be running with little practice on Wednesday so I could potentially 'Brad' someone if I am not careful.
Can I vote to change to the International configuration? I'm with Argo, passing and whatnot is going to be very difficult on this track, running the slightly longer version opens up at least one clean passing zone and only changes the last corner.
Is adding the hairpin really going to help much though? The not-hairpin seems like a possible pass spot because it can be taken a few ways and will result in different straightaway speeds for passing.
I did a bit of practice and I am got to 50.9. I had to soften the car a LOT. This track is super BUMPY! Duffus Dip is quite a challenge and could get rather interesting with AI cars. I ran this track a few times doing the championship races so at least its not totally unfamiliar.
Are we running with the track edge Nazi? This track has at least a few corners that can easily be cut. The nazi is not too terrible on this track, but the outside boundary penalties will be easy to get and pretty irritating. It looks like for the painted line corners you just have to have two tires inside of them.
Yea, actually I just was practicing. I was turning in good laps but still a couple seconds off the time Argo posted. I was struggling to find those seconds. It’s because I was running the international layout.
TRACK SWITCH...
Knockhill International
In reply to aircooled :
No. We are keeping penalties and damage off until people abuse it.
So. General guideline then. Is the intent to keep two tires inside the lines or are we allowed to use the aprons in those two corners?
The intent is to keep you car at least partly on the track. I think that even though penalties are off, track limits are still enforced for legal times.
So, do we have a target time for the International layout?
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