Project Cars 2 - Series 2 Discussion

Ok, we are in the final week of the first series, so it's time to open up debate on what to do next.  I'm thinking we'll take short break over the holidays and pick back up around January 3rd or 10th, whichever works best for folks.

I wanted to do an open wheel series, wanted a spec class, and didn't want cars too on the edge.  My thought was Formula C cars.  I haven't really driven them, but they are in the middle of the Formula tier.  But I'm open to suggestions.  I know Air's love of the old Lotus, so we could do a Lotus 51 series or something like that.

What do you guys want to race?  Where do you want to race them?

How easy is it to change the car spec in a room?  It it is easy, we can pick a few contenders and run 2-3 lap races on a reasonably well known track for each one.

I am of course most interested in the more "sloppy" (older, non-aero, non-driving aids) cars.  Realistically, you would think something like the old Group 5 cars would be a nightmare to drive.  Compared to these GT3 cars though, they are pretty much always trying to kill you (they are consistent), whereas the GT3 cars seem solid, until they aren't, then they are gone.

Here are my ideas:

1. Shag-a-rific Series: '74 Jag E-Type (spec car) @ British Tracks
2. GRM Gran Pix: Formula C (spec car) @ World GP
3. Lotus Enthusiasts Club: '67 Lotus Type 51 (spec car) at Club courses
4. Not-a-Miata: Ginetta Junior (spec car) at smaller tracks

I would like to a do a GT5 series at some point, but I fear we would all pick the Porsche.  Also, a multi-class series with Vintage Prototypes and GTs would be cool.

First, I would suggest a couple weeks of different car test sessions before settling on Series 2. (Mostly because I will be absent and in the Caribbean for two weeks and don't want to miss the start of the series again)

Here are three suggested series for consideration:

1. European Formula 3 Championship (Formula C) - These cars are fun to drive.  They seem fast but are actually about 3 seconds per lap slower than the GT3 cars.  Almost all the "official" tracks of the series are available.  These would be the tracks:

Silverstone GP

Monza

Brno

Red Bull Ring

Algarve

Spa

Nurburgring GP

Hockenhiem GP

2.  Vintage British Touring Cars (Group A) - These cars are fun.  We ran a previous series with them in PC1.  Basic non-aero racing.  These would be the tracks:

Brands Hatch

Cadwell Park

Donington Park

Knockhill

Oulton Park

Silverstone

Snetterton

3. Vintage Grand Prix (Lotus 49 or 25) - Old school racing on old school tracks.  Many of the classic GP tracks are in PC2.  These would be the tracks:

Silverstone Classic

Hockenheimring Classic

Historic Monza

Nordschleife

Rouen

Historic Spa

Watkins Glen

Zolder

Post up your thoughts.

Just to throw out some silliness that I am sure Argo would hate  :  (might be fun to explore the possibilities at some point though)

https://youtu.be/zd_sK82YojA

In reply to aircooled :

What a great idea. We are all so skilled that we need an extra challenge like go karts in the SNOW. 

I don't think I would have much of a problem with most of those.  Probably easier then the GT3 cars (with the tune I go for of course).  The go karts would certainly take some getting used to.  The nice thing about the scenarios shown in the video is that you can always predict any of those cars will break loose at the smallest provocation.  The difficulty with the GT3 cars is that its much harder to predict when they will break loose, and much harder to catch.

Along those line, a car that might be interesting to play with is the Caterham (Lotus 7 clone).

Didn't we run a Caterham series back in the early GT5 days? I recall them be one of the more challenging cars to drive and setup. 

I think the "realistic" driving aids of the GT3 cars tend to mask the feel and pending break away.  You certainly can't goose the throttle when you get sideways.  I think any one of many series would be good without driving aids.

Yes, I don't think we should worry about cars without driving aids.  Non-ABS cars are a lot easier to drive in PC than GT, the brakes are much easier to modulate (they are super sensitive in GT).  I have almost no ABS or traction control on the Ferrari now and it makes it a lot nicer to drive.  Neither would help with any of the spins I have had anyway, they are not he result of locking up the tires or power oversteer.

I will be here tomorrow for our test session then gone for the next two weeks.

I spent a while testing a few cars tonight.  I used my "home" track of Sonoma GP.  I ran each car 4 or 5 laps on the base "stable" setup.  Here are my thoughts on each:

1:33.0  Here is a base time I set last week in the Porsche GT3 R - custom setup.

1:25.3  Ferrari 333SP.  Yeeehawww.  The Jalopnik video made me try it.  It sounds awesome just like the video. Spits fire.  Fast with a lot of aero stick.  High cornering speeds.  Not real slidey.  Too quick and too much like the GT3 cars.

1:48.2  Formula Junior.  Lots of fun.  Easy to drift.  Great cockpit view.  Much more predictable handling than the Lotus 51.  Gearing is better.  Would make a good first formula series.  Not too fast and easy to catch a slide.

1:36.7  Formula C.  Same as the FJ above but fast enough to be more entertaining.  Drifts nicely but quick enough to need some attention.  Gearing is good.  Sounds good.  This would be my #1 pick for a formula series.

1:23.7 Formula Renault 3.5.  Holy third gear wheelspin Batman!  Wow this was fun and sounds amazing.  It would take a lot more than 4 laps for me to master this one.  Really fast -- probably too fast for our first series.  But it can drift, spin the tires, and lock the brakes.  I love it!

1:33.0  Radical SR3-RS.  It's fine but not as much fun as the formula cars.  Too planted.  Really needs more power to make the chassis work.  It's OK.

1:49.0  Ford Cosworth RS500 Grp A.  Evil car with a very peaky turbo motor.  Old school racing with a very old school chassis/ engine.  Would be a challenge that's for sure.  This is the only one I crashed trying to wring it out.

1:42.6  Lotus 49 Cosworth.  Jim Clark I'm not but it's fun to pretend that you're in the movie Grand Prix.  Old school analog racing in a digital world.  Surprisingly fun and predictable.  Sounds good. Doesn't feel like all that much power but it is a lot for the old grooved tires.  Lots of sliding. I like it.  This would be my #2 choice for a series. (The Formula Junior would be #3)

1:55.8  Lotus 51.  Too friggin slow.  Gears spaced too far apart.  Doesn't handle like a modern car.  I was always leaning forward in the seat willing it to go faster.  I think that there are better choices for a formula car series.

I didn't get a chance to test the Clio Cup car that was suggested.  Looking forward to trying some cars out tomorrow.

One suggestion I have also is maybe think of running shorter races, maybe two separate races.  Most of the "racing" seems to done after a few laps and the likelihood of anything significant happening after 20 min is slim. The real danger of the longer races is mostly boredom / losing concentration.  Not that isn't a real racing thing, I am just thinking we might be able to fit in some more action.

In reply to aircooled :

I agree but for a different reason.  I think we should shorten the sessions to accommodate the east coasters.  I think that having official practice at 20 minutes, qualifying at 15, and the race at 20 would allow the whole thing to finish by 10:30 pm eastern each Wednesday.  This would allow Dean and Spool to have their beauty rest.  To your point, I think 20 minutes is the right race length for competition, though as we get more drivers there may be more battles.  I also think we should turn up the AI pace and down on their aggression.  Make us work for it but reduce contact. I like keeping the full fields with the AI filler.  Those who want more practice time each week can log on early.

Are we testing tonight?   

I figure just leave the room open for car selection and let everyone experiment and make suggestions.  Argos list of course is a good starting point if you have no specific ideas.

I do want to try out the Caterham.

I’ll open a testing room up tonight. It’ll be almost exclusively practice session time with competitive license disabled. Feel free to crash to your hearts extents. 

What time are we thinking? I'll try to be there with my horrible clumsy controller finger fumbling self providing plenty of disappointment. 

PSN name is Chadeux1 if any of you want to add me. 

It’ll be the normal-ish time of 9:30 ET. 

I’ll send invites out as soon as it’s up. 

We need a slide friendly car for me to join more often. 

The track we use tonight should be a familiar one that lets us just focus on the car differences. Any suggestions?

I was thinking Sugo. We ran it in the PC1 series. It’s a midsize track with a good blend of corners and speed. 

Im going to be stuck in a single car. I don’t think it will let me switch around. I’m trying to decide what I want that to be currently. 

I will say, I tried the 935/77 and wasn't nearly as terrified by it as  I expected to be. No way am I fast in something like that at this point though.

EDIT: did a bit of controller setting tweaking and now I feel like I have a lot more control. Greatly enjoying throwing the RS1600 touring car around Sugo now.

Argo will need to invite you if you want to get into a private room, so make sure he knows you are planning on attending.

We could try an open room....!  You would want to give it a GRM title in that case.

I will certainly be there if you let me in. I promise not to eat your shoes or pee on the rug. 

I’ll send a friend request in a bit. Very tricky PSN name of BradLTL

Two possibly stupid questions:

1. HOW do you exit the sim?  I can't for the life of me find a key on the G25's mapped controller to get out, and back to the PS4's home screens

2. Accept a totally raw rookie in this evening?  Old-Rotarian PSN ID