Some buddies and I are seriously considering doing this next year. It's a 650 mile all-out endurance race. We're planning on the 200/225 class (200cc limit, 225 if bike is more than 30 years old). I'm trying to figure out what would be a cool budget build; some kind of old frame/engine combo with modern FZR400 brakes and suspension would be a yummy prospect. Any ideas? Did anyone ever make a sub-200cc four? I like revvy, peaky bikes. An RD200 would be a good idea too.
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Sept. 24, 2009 5:42 p.m. SlickDizzy SuperDork
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Sept. 24, 2009 6:34 p.m. xci_ed6 Reader
SlickDizzy wrote: Did anyone ever make a sub-200cc four?
I can't think of any commonly available 200cc i4. It wasn't a displacement class for racing, so most will be twins or singles since they are cheaper to produce. The 50cc or 125cc class might have faster bikes.
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Sept. 24, 2009 6:39 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork
The smallest 4 cylinder production bikes I'm aware of were 250cc, but they were never sold in the US.
The old Honda CB160 twin is pretty well supported for racing: http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/Touring/Destinations/September-October-2008/Hond...
edit: I just remembered that Benelli sold a 250 quattro street bike in the US, but good luck finding one and it's still bigger than 200cc. The best choice for the race would probably be a Yamaha RD200 but RD bikes are pretty collectible these days so it will be hard to find a cheap one. Another possibility would be a mid 1970s Suzuki GT185, they're still fairly easy to find and are usually pretty cheap - I just saw one at a swap meet last week that was selling for a few hundred bucks. A dark horse would be a Can-Am 175 dual purpose bike; they were rockets for their size, but you'd have to modify it for roadracing use.
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Sept. 24, 2009 6:50 p.m. xci_ed6 Reader
Actually...the 50cc class allows anything that started as a 50......
The 200cc blaster engine is a common swap.
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Sept. 25, 2009 3:21 p.m. SlickDizzy SuperDork
xci_ed6 wrote:
Actually...the 50cc class allows anything that started as a 50......
The 200cc blaster engine is a common swap.
50cc class must retain a stock bottom end, though. CB200's traditionally win the race it seems; however a RD or GT bike would be much more to my liking. I'll start looking more at dual-purpose bikes, might be able to build something really neat.
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Sept. 25, 2009 3:43 p.m. andrave HalfDork
does it have to be 4 stroke?
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Sept. 25, 2009 3:44 p.m. SlickDizzy SuperDork
In reply to andrave:
Nope!
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Sept. 25, 2009 4:18 p.m. Osterkraut Dork
You're on to something with the FZR400... I've seen a few thumper swaps into them. Get a modern 200cc thumper and swap it in.
Or use half the cylinders in the FZR as a sort of supercharger...
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Sept. 25, 2009 4:55 p.m. SlickDizzy SuperDork
Osterkraut wrote:
You're on to something with the FZR400... I've seen a few thumper swaps into them. Get a modern 200cc thumper and swap it in.
Or use half the cylinders in the FZR as a sort of supercharger...
I'm thinking a Blaster-swapped FZR or EX250 might be a decent way to go. I gotta get in contact with these guys and figure out just how loose the rules actually are.
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Sept. 25, 2009 7:03 p.m. EvanB Reader
That is awesome! I will definitely have to do that next year. Now to find another cheap GT.
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Sept. 25, 2009 7:06 p.m. EvanB Reader
http://columbus.craigslist.org/mcy/1383209540.html
This would do nicely...with stops every 20 miles for gas.
Or this one with a blaster engine swapped in...
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Sept. 28, 2009 11:09 a.m. andrave HalfDork
kdx, blaster, dt 200cc 2 stroke in a ninja frame or similar.
that would be my vote for cost effectiveness.
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Sept. 28, 2009 3:21 p.m. stroker Reader
Wasn't there a CB200?
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Sept. 28, 2009 3:24 p.m. EvanB Reader
I would want to build this one into a mini brat-style bike.
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Sept. 28, 2009 6:55 p.m. alex HalfDork
Osterkraut wrote:
Or use half the cylinders in the FZR as a sort of supercharger...
This. Make this happen.
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Sept. 28, 2009 8:00 p.m. ManofFewWords Reader
If you like peaky bikes, put a 125 2stroke in a small chassis. Put a tall gear on it and haul ass!
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Sept. 28, 2009 8:49 p.m. Rusnak_322 Reader
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Sept. 28, 2009 9:00 p.m. andrave HalfDork
alex wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
Or use half the cylinders in the FZR as a sort of supercharger...
This. Make this happen.
this has been tested to not work...at least on automobile engines.
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Sept. 28, 2009 9:34 p.m. sundancevette New Reader
In reply to andrave:
It can actually be done (we did it in school), but at minimum you have to have a cam custom made with 2 lobes. To be really useful you need solenoid actuated valves. Really though, it's more practical (and cost effective) to add a convential supercharger.
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Sept. 28, 2009 9:39 p.m. andrave HalfDork
I read an article about it and they tried it on a 16 cylnder if I recall correctly. 8 cyls supercharging and 8 firing or something? they were unable to reach positive manifold pressure.
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Sept. 28, 2009 9:56 p.m. sundancevette New Reader
That sounds cool, let me know if you can find the article, I'd like to read it. We did it on an inline 4 and got positive pressure and got ot to even run, but we ran out of time (and money) to finish tuning it.
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Sept. 28, 2009 10:06 p.m. Osterkraut Dork
andrave wrote:
alex wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
Or use half the cylinders in the FZR as a sort of supercharger...
This. Make this happen.
this has been tested to not work...at least on automobile engines.
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Sept. 28, 2009 10:43 p.m. CarKid1989 Reader
EvanB wrote:
I would want to build this one into a mini brat-style bike.
What exactly is a brat?
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Sept. 28, 2009 11:04 p.m. EvanB Reader
I hope you have some time to waste
They have also recently added a brat/bobber section to dotheton.com with a few projects for inspiration.
Basically it is like a bobber, started in Japan, usually done with SR thumpers or Harleys.
mmmm
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Sept. 29, 2009 8:32 a.m. chaparral New Reader
Don't even THINK about showing up with a four-stroke engine.
A dead-stock YZ125 motor makes 40 horsepower at the output sprocket. Put a decent road pipe on it and you'll see 45.
If you want a Honda, call Eric Gorr and get a big bore kit for a CR125; a CR144 will make 45 horsepower too.
I doubt any four-stroke engine that shows up will be making more than 35 hp. A Ninja 250 motor, expensively destroked down to 200cc, might get around there with a stupid-peaky powerband.
Maybe some exotic four-cylinder motor might match a Craigslist dirtbike motor that's 75cc smaller.
