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PHeller Reader
2/24/09 2:20 p.m.

In my search for a motorcycle, I've come across a few classic/vintage 100cc motorcycles.

I know in PA you've gotta have a license to ride on the street anything over 50cc, but I'm not sure about inspections on smaller bikes.

The one nice thing about these older smaller bikes is that people have stored them in their sheds for years and just want to unload them.

I found a $200 Honda CL100!

Something like that would be awfully cool for warm days when I'm up early and can take the slow road to school.

Learn me on these things.

fastEddie Dork
2/24/09 2:26 p.m.

From the chopper thread - dotheton.com

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=7035.0 - CB175


PHeller Reader
2/24/09 2:37 p.m.

No no, I mean...learn me on another things besides making them look cool.

Like, do they need inspected in PA, licensed? Titled? Etc?

fastEddie Dork
2/24/09 2:40 p.m.

Sorry, I thought you answered that yourself in your first post.

I can't speak for PA but I think OH is the same way, ANYTHING over 50cc is a motorcycle and must be licensed, titled, that way, requires an M endorsement on your driver's license, etc. - of course we don't have vehicle inspections here....

PHeller Reader
2/24/09 2:45 p.m.

Ok, so it'd need all the normal stuff to be on the street.

What about bikes less than 125cc? Since that's what I emailed the guy about.

Could I swap in a 125 or bigger on that old CL100? I bet that'd be dangerous.

I know nothing about motorcycles except that they make very excited...especially potentially cheap cafe/bobbers.

ClemSparks SuperDork
2/24/09 3:04 p.m.
fastEddie wrote: CB200

I am absolutely smitten by this bike.

Who wants to trade something similar for a CB750? ;)


PHeller Reader
2/24/09 3:05 p.m.

What about titles on old street bikes?

ClemSparks SuperDork
2/24/09 3:16 p.m.

In Missouri, we have the 50cc break. It's stupid cheap to have a scooter. No license/registration, no Insurance. Only requirements are Valid Driver's license (no M endorsement necessary). In my City, we have to have a headlight (at night, duh) and wear a helmet (duh).

In Missouri, to get a license plate, you must have a title. Simple as that.

If I could come up with an older bike that was really cheap and didn't have a title, I'd likely go through an internet title service to get a title for it quasi-legally.

My goal with my stuff is to do historic tags. They never expire, they don't require an inspection (just title, insurance, and personal property tax), and the bike (or car) has to be at least 25 years old.

I don't understand your question about 125cc or less. Like I said, 50cc is the breakover point in MO (and apparently in OH too).


PHeller Reader
2/24/09 3:21 p.m.

I thought I had read somewhere that over 50cc required a helmet and was considered a motorcycle, but did not require inspections or something.

I could be real wrong though.

ClemSparks SuperDork
2/24/09 3:30 p.m.

That is completely governed by state. A quick visit to whatever dept. handles that in your area (their website will likely have it) would hopefully clear it up pretty quickly. Here in MO it's the Dept. of Revenue (watch out! they'll get you for runnin' 'shine too, I bet).


Snowdoggie Reader
2/24/09 3:49 p.m.
fastEddie wrote: From the chopper thread - dotheton.com http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=7035.0 - CB175

This looks just like a bike I had in college, except for the cafe racer bars and seat. Don't make me want another one of these small bore Hondas. I already have a couple of CT-90s that need attention.

CrackMonkey Reader
2/24/09 4:06 p.m.

In VA, anything >50cc is automatically a motorcycle and requires tags, insurance, and an M endorsement.

Bikes <50cc can be mopeds and can't be operated over 30mph. No reg, insurance, or M endorsement required. Must be capable of obtaining a DL - over 16yo and not have lost your DL for other legal troubles. The 30mph used to be a hard limit and bikes were restricted. I think they changed the wording and the bikes can be derestricted, but if you get caught going over 30, it's a no-license, no-reg, straight to jail type of affair.

914Driver Dork
2/24/09 6:25 p.m.

NY is the same as Va except that you need a valid driver's license to drive anything on the streets of New York. Scoots under 50cc are Class B, no M stamp.

fastbmw New Reader
2/24/09 7:03 p.m.

These are my little in town skoots.

They're both 1988 Honda ZB50's with a little spray paint applied..haha. 3 spd, semi-auto (you shift yourself but no clutch), 50cc 4-stroke. Top speed stock is about 30-35mph. With a few minors mods, my blue Mini-Ducati with a 88cc kit will top about 50mph, the Repsol will do about 45 with a 72cc upgrade. Tons of fun in the city and more than enough power to keep you out of the path of cars and SUV's.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn Dork
2/24/09 8:43 p.m.

Looks like all you need to know is here: http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/centers/motorcycleCenter.shtml

Appleseed Reader
2/25/09 2:24 a.m.
ClemSparks wrote: I am absolutely smitten by this bike. Who wants to trade something similar for a CB750? ;) Clem

CB 750? If you dig cafes look no further than http://www.cb750cafe.com/

Carpy rules!

fastEddie Dork
2/25/09 6:43 a.m.

Where does the "ton" reference come from? See dotheton.com and references on Carpy's site linked above.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
2/25/09 7:06 a.m.

The "ton" in England refers to 100 mph. I imagine the expression comes from some arcane English measurement like stones or hundredweight.

Jensenman SuperDork
2/25/09 10:22 a.m.

The old Honda CL/SL 100 and 125 vertical singles were what I grew up riding. The later XLs use the same motor (basically) and they can be retrofitted easily. They are bulletproof (stock) because they are woefully underpowered. Powroll can still fix that, though. www.powroll.com I once rode a 125 that had been bored and stroked to 170cc's and had a total loss battery ignition (no flywheel to add inertia), that thing was FAST.

The 175/185/200 motor is not a bolt in for the 100/125. The XL250 and 350 are similar to each other but very few parts interchange and I don't believe a 350 will go into a 250 frame (or vice versa) without major mods.

aircooled Dork
2/25/09 10:42 a.m.

I will concur with Jensenman. The Honda 100 and 125's use the same mounting pattern (the 75-80's are different). The 175-200 may use the same bolt pattern, but they are way bigger.

A another important point is that the Chinese vertical single copy engines all use the Honda 125 mounting pattern. So most of the old 100 and 125's can be swapped. The engines are magneto driven (no battery is needed) and some even have electric start (with kick backup). See listing here:

Hooper Imports Lifan Engines

Of note: a 100 or 125 (especially a 100) with get great gas mileage, but are really "around town" bikes and are certainly not good (and not legal, at least in CA) for freeways, and marginal on many highways or fast "artery" streets. Basically they are good cruisers up to 45 mph or so, but they really need to be pushed to go faster (you really don't want to be tail gated on a bike). On totally flat land, you can probably move that number up, but in hilly areas it will go down.

EvanB Reader
2/25/09 11:23 a.m.
Tim Baxter wrote: The "ton" in England refers to 100 mph. I imagine the expression comes from some arcane English measurement like stones or hundredweight.

Also, in England when the cafe racers got started the goal was to "do the ton" or break 100 mph while they were racing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caf%C3%A9_racer - some interesting history.

Jensenman SuperDork
2/25/09 11:33 a.m.

The XR100 bottom end is very similar to the old SL/XL but the top end is different. The 100/125 engines are generally separated by 1 piece and 2 piece head design. AFAIK Honda didn't import a 125 version of that 2 piece head design to the States.

The Lifan engines shown on that Hooper Imports page all seem to be the later 2 piece design.

aircooled Dork
2/25/09 12:17 p.m.
Jensenman wrote: The XR100 bottom end is very similar to the old SL/XL but the top end is different. The 100/125 engines are generally separated by 1 piece and 2 piece head design. AFAIK Honda didn't import a 125 version of that 2 piece head design to the States....

By two piece, you mean split at the cam gear bearing right? They were only the later years (like 77+), but they definitely exist in the US, I have two of the engines. The 77-78 were a bit different for some reason. Kind of a pain if you need a new head though, all of the "new" stuff (far east) is for the one piece and old ones are hard to find.

The two piece heads may also be the only engines with magneto ignitions (I know my 77 is). I am pretty sure that was only a few years (on the 125's). I think it went away with the electronic ignitions of the early 80's.

Jensenman SuperDork
2/25/09 2:58 p.m.

Right, split at the cam bearings. I know the XR 75/80/100/200 used this setup, I just wasn't sure Honda imported a 125 made that way. The one piece head had a crazy left side bearing journal with two cutouts so you could slide the cam lobes past the bearing. It never looked like it would work to me, but it seemed to do all right.

Most of the early motors were DC ignition (the SL70 was an exception, it ran on magneto ignition) meaning a battery was essential even if it wasn't charged. Or you could use a battery eliminator. Lots of trailriders (like me) did that because you could lose the heavy lead/acid battery but weren't constrained by a D cell total loss ignition system, a handy thing to have 40 miles from nowhere. I never tried using an AC coil on any of my SL's.

PHeller Reader
2/25/09 5:30 p.m.

Ok, so I found another one.

1971 Honda Four 500 (I guess it's a CB?) Says the engine was rebuilt, but is currently sitting as a pile of parts. Front end is completely, but chain, rear shocks, seat, etc are removed, but included in sale.

Owner doesn't have a titled, but I'm questioning about the bill of sale. He says his father had the bike for the last 7 years, along with the title, but doesn't know where the title got to.

He's a little vague on the emails. Kinda like "just come pick it up and stop bothering me" type.

But let's say he's not the original owner, and the original owner lost the title. So it's twice the bill of sale.

To what extent does stuff have to match up? If it's got matching VIN's (do bikes that old even have VINS?)

What if he's got no paperwork, but it's got clean VINs?

I'm trying to capitalize on the older, cheaper, cooler bikes, but finding that anything under $1000 starts get hit or miss with the title issue.

Seems like many people turn older bikes in off-road bikes and just throw the title away or something. Jeez people...ruining the history!

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