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Forums » Sprockets » Old skool looks, modern kick? 1 2

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  Feb. 9, 2010 9:03 p.m. CarKid1989 HalfDork

  I like older bikes, be it an old CB350, 750, etc or Kawasaki KZ series and the list goes on.

  I like em cause they seem to have more character and can be modded into bobbers, brats, cafe and other styles. They are unique.

  Im wondering what it would take to drop a newer motor into an older chassis.

  Kaw 440 would get a ninja 500 engine

  Honda 350-750 would get a close CC comparison honda engine

  The swap would be engine and tranny.

  Assuming that all wiring works and all that jazz (swap entire harness from new drivetrain to old bike), whats holding you back from doing this? Here is what problems i have:

  -Different motor mounts. (would it be that hard to make it work though? seriously?)

  -Different chains/sprockets (aftermarket exists and you may be able to mix and match stuff from stock parts)

  -you would need to mostly stay air cooled to air cooled swaps and water cooled with water cooled.

  I just envision a bobber style bike with a 13,000RPM redline. I think it would be the perfect unholy union.

  Am i nuts? Thoughts? Insight?

  Thanks

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  Feb. 10, 2010 8:36 a.m. Rusnak_322 Reader

  I can't think of any engine that spins 13k RPM and would look good in a bobber. There is a thread on another forum that shows a guy putting FI and the charging system from a CBR600F4i using a megasquirt. That is a better way to go in my opinion.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 8:42 a.m. 93celicaGT2 UltraDork

  Personally... i would like a CBR1100RR motor in a late 80s early 90s Honda Hawk GT.

  But i may also be criminally insane.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 9:20 a.m. wheelsmithy Reader

  I saw a CBR F1 bobber that looked cool in an outta the box, robotic way. Modern power in a 70's spaghetti frame? Sounds kinda dicey to me.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 9:34 a.m. 93celicaGT2 UltraDork

  You guys ever seen those Busas with the retro front end and body work? THAT is a weird looking bike.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 9:55 a.m. alex Dork

  The charm of old school bikes is the lack of power and total simplicity, if you ask me. I mean, your choices for a 'new' bike without an utterly insane power-to-weight ratio are quite slim unless you're still nearly kid-sized and you'll fit onto a 250. Even the modern/retro bikes like the Bonneville and the Guzzi Classic/V7 would trounce anything from the era they represent. And really, to harness the power of any halfway modern engine, you need a thoroughly modern chassis.

  So, I'll take my classics pretty stock, or at least relatively era-appropriate.
  

  Also, get off my lawn, kid.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 9:55 a.m. EvanB HalfDork

  I looked into doing this a while ago with my GS550 and an oil-cooled gixxer engine. I have only seen one picture of someone putting a gixxer engine in an old frame but can't find it now.

  It shouldn't be too hard to figure out the mounts as long as you can weld. You can buy offset sprockets to line up the chain. Then you have to make sure the brakes and suspension are up for the added power.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 11:20 a.m. 44Dwarf HalfDork

  Go the other way! You be happier old school motor in new chasis! 44

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  Feb. 10, 2010 11:48 a.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

  Have you gone by the Triumph dealer to look at a new Bonneville?

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  Feb. 10, 2010 12:18 p.m. Tom Heath Marketing / Club Coordinator

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Personally... i would like a CBR1100RR motor in a late 80s early 90s Honda Hawk GT.

  But i may also be criminally insane.

  The VTR 1000 motor seems like a better swap. Gotta keep it a twin, ya know.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 1:59 p.m. skruffy Dork

  The TL100r v-twin looks pretty cool once you remove enough stuff to see it. It also makes crazy torque and still revs like a sportbike.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 2:26 p.m. Rusnak_322 Reader

  jwdmotorsports wrote:

  Have you gone by the Triumph dealer to look at a new Bonneville?

  
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  Feb. 10, 2010 2:30 p.m. Rusnak_322 Reader

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  You guys ever seen those Busas with the retro front end and body work? THAT is a weird looking bike.

  You are not talking about the Kawabusa are you?

  
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  Feb. 10, 2010 2:46 p.m. zomby woof HalfDork

  Kaw 440 would get a ninja 500 engine

  Aren't they pretty much the same motor?

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  Feb. 10, 2010 3:44 p.m. 93celicaGT2 UltraDork

  Rusnak_322 wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  You guys ever seen those Busas with the retro front end and body work? THAT is a weird looking bike.

  You are not talking about the Kawabusa are you?

  

  That might be it... I've see a couple around here that have double headlights still, and they don't look near that modern. It may be a custom jobbie...

  But that Kawabusa is AWESOME.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 4:23 p.m. wheelsmithy Reader

  I've seen a bunch of GSX-R/ Kat oil/air cooled engines in 70's bikes-not bad. There was a RF 900 engine for sale locally for $55 that I somehow talked myself out of. Maybe because I had sold a dirt dobber infested Kat 750 engine for $55 a couple of months earlier. The SBC of motorcycles. Google Streetfighter, and you're bound to turn some up.

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  Feb. 10, 2010 6:37 p.m. stroker Reader

  I'm lusting after building the reverse--an old engine in a modern frame...

  I wish I knew what happened to my old XS750E... It'd be about worthless by now....

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  Feb. 10, 2010 10:18 p.m. CarKid1989 HalfDork

  The big thing now that worries me is how old bike chassis will react to the much power.

  i still think it would be cool to try

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  Feb. 11, 2010 10:21 a.m. Rusnak_322 Reader

  Here you go - a new Aprilia engine in an old looking frame.

  
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  Feb. 11, 2010 10:23 a.m. alex Dork

  CarKid1989 wrote:

  The big thing now that worries me is how old bike chassis will react to the much power.

  That's worth being concerned about. Remember that the Kaw two stroke triples were pretty damned over-engined when they came around (I've ridden one in anger, I can attest to its noodley-ness), and I imagine they were making around 50-60 hp stock.

  What frightens me most is the brakes. Specifically, the lack thereof.

  Just keep repeating, 'slow bike fast, slow bike fast, slow bike fast.'

  That Bonneville gives me Tight Pants Syndrome.

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  Feb. 11, 2010 10:38 a.m. alex Dork

  Here's another thought: you want old-school power in a chassis that can almost handle it? Make a motard out of a late-model 2 stroke dirtbike. You get nasty power, a steel frame that's a bit wobbly by today's standards, plus sophisticated suspension. Upgrade brakes and tires and Bob's your uncle.

  I have some seat time on a late KX250, which is fairly mental in and of itself, but what I simply can't shake from my mind is a short ride on a '98-ish KX500. Holy sheep E36 M3. With that thing, you take your pick of burnout or wheelie, and hold the berkeley on. Being a 500 single, it actually has grunt off the line, but when it gets on the pipe, it's like the foot of God has swung down to punt you into the next county.
  

  And this thing was 100% showroom stock, down to the idiot stickers on the rear fender. I'm afraid to imagine what some bolt-ons would do to it.
  

  (Keep in mind that my daily rider at that point was an un-neutered '97 TL1000-S streetfighter with no steering damper, a full Yosh exhaust and PC - about 120 unruly horses in a twitchy frame with a reputation as a widowmaker.)

  So, I have visions of taking the brutal power inside that old-school steel tube frame, slapping on some sticky rubber and big brakes and going out to see if I can't get myself smeared all over something.

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  Feb. 11, 2010 1:54 p.m. 914Driver UltraDork

  CarKid said:

  Different chain & sprocket?

  Dennis Kirk & $$$

  CarKid said:

  Motor mounts?

  Saw-Zall & welder.

  IIRC CarKid you were on your way to Chicago to pick up something, right? How long you been riding? I wouldn't mess too much with something that a team of trained Engineers researched and put together until you can out drive the bike you have.

  I'm not suggesting some Frankenbike you put together would fold in half at 50mph, but can you chance it?
  

  If you want sportbike performmance is a sit up or Bobber frame, you want a Houligan bike. Take the plastic off a sportbike, lay on some dirt bike bars and viola', you're ready to terrorize the population.

  Dan

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  Feb. 11, 2010 2:49 p.m. jwdmotorsports HalfDork

  Rusnak_322 wrote:

  Here you go - a new Aprilia engine in an old looking frame.

  

  Sweet!!!

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  Feb. 11, 2010 10:15 p.m. CarKid1989 HalfDork

  the bikes posted are along the lines of what i want, but not exactly. I sketched some bikes out and you guys make a valid point, it would be hard to make is not look silly with a modern engine -though not impossible. also, the safety thing of brakes and chassis are whats deterring me from this idea being followed through.

  Thanks to everyone for your expertise, i really do appreciate your input and knowledge.

  BTW....whats a hooligan bike. i assume its a style but what defines it

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  Feb. 11, 2010 10:16 p.m. SlickDizzy UltraDork

  Kawasaki Zephyr? Honda GB500 Tourist Trophy? If you want a great new/old school combo bike...

  Bike engine swaps are limited only by your imagination and physical measurements. With a welder and some patience, anything is possible. Just realize that an archaic KZ440 with an EX500 engine is going to be 3/4 as fast as the EX500 and handle 1/4 as well. Balance is a completely separate issue altogether. I am still plotting a DT200-powered VTR250 for the Lake Erie Loop, and that's based on calculations I've been plugging for 6 months. I already own a RD200 which will probably be the actual competitor, that is if I don't do the BA/BE Rally.

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