2017 Toyota 86 new car reviews

We've been writing about the Subaru BRZ a lot recently. Now it's time to take a look at the its Toyota counterpart: the 86.

Other staff views

David S. Wallens David S. Wallens
Editorial Director

My Toyota 86 review is going to more or less mirror what I said about the latest BRZ and the BRZ fitted with the Performance Package.

TL;DR: I really, really dig these cars. I don’t care if they only have 200 horsepower. Read the Subaru reviews above for my reasoning.

The 86 showed up the week after we had the BRZ, so we more or less got to drive them back-to-back. Both had manual transmissions.

So, the big question: Which car?

I’m going with the Subaru here, and that’s no dis at the Toyota. You’re still a favorite in my book.

Why the BRZ? For one, a prettier face. The 86 looks like it has a fat lip, like it got punched in the face or something. Going with a darker color minimizes things, but the BRZ looks great in any hue. With the original BRZ and FR-S, I thought that the looks were too similar to call a favorite. Now I’m calling the BRZ’s new nose edgier.

Then there’s the tail. I’m usually not a big wing guy, but I think this body benefits from a little something back there. Our 86’s wingless tail just looked a little unfinished. I know, not a huge deal, but we’re talking about two nearly identical cars.

The interiors are close. The 86 has the better gauges, but the Subaru’s controls—especially the radio—feel a touch more substantial. Which center stack do you prefer? I like Toyota’s minimalistic approach, but I think in the end I’d be happier with the Subaru. Again, it just felt a bit more upmarket.

Then there’s the price: The Subaru has a slightly lower starting MSRP, $25,495 vs. $26,255. Of course that could be a wash at the local level.

Final thoughts: Major, major kudos to Subaru and Toyota for bringing these cars to market, and even though it’s a niche vehicle, thanks for keeping it around. Neither one is a bad answer. They’re just so close, that I have to give Subaru the nod. Again, WR Blue for me, please.

Join Free Join our community to easily find more articles.

Comments

View comments on the GRM forums
cmcgregor
cmcgregor Dork
2/27/17 4:31 p.m.

Interesting that the Toyota is now the more expensive of the 2. That was a big reason that I bought a Scion instead of a Subaru - lower base price, and lower resale for the used buyer (me).

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/27/17 6:47 p.m.

I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
2/27/17 6:56 p.m.
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

I'll complain that it still doesn't come with respectable tires....unless it does now. Toyota's site doesn't specify the tire brand, what does this car have on it?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
2/27/17 8:16 p.m.
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

News moar pwer.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/27/17 8:24 p.m.
irish44j wrote:
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

I'll complain that it still doesn't come with respectable tires....unless it does now. Toyota's site doesn't specify the tire brand, what does this car have on it?

Still buying into that "Its got Prius tires" nonsense?

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
2/27/17 8:26 p.m.
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

It's already got almost twice the power of an AE86

parker
parker Reader
2/27/17 8:39 p.m.
Knurled wrote:
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

It's already got almost twice the power of an AE86

And more than an MR2 Turbo, although a bit lacking in torque.

Brian
Brian MegaDork
2/27/17 9:26 p.m.

Do they have the same suspension tuning?

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 12:00 a.m.
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

I've driven the BRZ a total of 3 times. It could use more power. Granted, I haven't driven the 2017+ model yet, so I can't say if the ~5hp and slightly shorter final drive would change my opinion much.

Disclaimer: I live in Denver, elevation= 5200+ft and my daily (VW Golf R) is turbocharged (boosted= less power lost at altitude), so my opinions might not align with others that live closer to sea level.

With that said, last year when I was shopping for a weekend playtoy car I shopped/drove the BRZ for the simplistic recipe they offer- lightweight, RWD, NA motor and a manual. I drove the BRZ back to back with a couple of other cars I was cross shopping (ND Miata and S2000) and it really felt like a dog in comparison.

People have complained about the BRZ's powerband and I understand why. The torque dip in the mid-range is certainly noticeable and it didn't do a whole lot up top. I pitched it around one of my favorite local canyon roads (Deer Creek Canyon Rd) and it seemed to be gasping for air on the slightest of inclines. For the record, I ended up buying an AP2 S2000.

For reference, the guys at TFL Car did a comparison of the FR-S vs ND Miata at our elevation (a mile high) and the acceleration results reflected what I found from my test drives:

FR-S 0-60mph at a mile high= 9.15

ND Miata 0-60mph at a mile high= 7.76

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHuxFFNv_DM&t=407s

^^^Maybe the Frisbee twins just don't adapt to elevation as well as the ND Miata or S2000. I have no idea. All I know is that after driving it multiple times and really wanting to like it, I just kept thinking "this car could really use an extra 30+hp".

YMMV.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
2/28/17 8:35 a.m.

9 posts. Prediction proven.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 8:57 a.m.
Appleseed wrote: 9 posts. Prediction proven.

Your prediction involved someone that has never driven the car. I've driven the Frisbee twins 3 times. They could use more power (at my elevation).

Although I will concede that I haven't driven the newest 86 iteration. For that, I would say: you're not wrong, based on technicality.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
2/28/17 9:03 a.m.

This is me sliding a BRZ. Needs more power.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 9:03 a.m.

In reply to Appleseed:

I though both had actually driven the car. One was a joke and the other with back to back experience and data to support. So nope, hypothisis not proven.

My big issue with the car is it's not a drop top as I'm a huge drop top fan. I was super stoked about the ND until I sat in one. Just not on for me, the interior size, layout and ergo just doesn't work for me. I'm one of the few who would buy an NC over and ND just because of the interior size and shape. Note, YMMV, actually Your Mileage will almost certainly vary. Personal fit in a car is massively subjective. An NA fits me like a glove, an ND fit's me like one of my grandsons socks.

Back to the Frisbee twins. I'd love a cheap one in the future and if the power isn't up to it check out the Every Day Driver vid where they do a header, Exhaust and flash, they are delighted with the results.

Cactus
Cactus Reader
2/28/17 9:06 a.m.

Now that this is post ̶ ̶1̶2̶ ̶1̶3̶ 14: Needs more horsepower.

Then again, is there a vehicle out there that doesn't?

Edit: I really need to learn to count

penultimeta
penultimeta Reader
2/28/17 10:50 a.m.

Man, if only they put the STI's engine in this with similar suspension tuning and AWD. Then this thing would be a beast.

Ok, now nobody else needs to say it.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 11:14 a.m.

In reply to penultimeta:

I would prefer the WRX's more responsive 2.0T FA20DIT over the STI's EJ25. The WRX's more modern motor is essentially a factory boosted BRZ engine, so it makes more sense.

I thought the BRZ's suspension setup was dialed in pretty well for a factory car. Suspension wasn't the problem.

I would keep it RWD with the extra power. No need to add all the extra weight and complexity with an AWD setup.

There, I fixed your statement for you.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
2/28/17 11:15 a.m.

AWD would absolutely ruin the car.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 11:17 a.m.
DaveEstey wrote: AWD would absolutely ruin the car.

^^^This.

The0retical
The0retical Dork
2/28/17 11:31 a.m.

I don't understand why it doesn't have a V12, KERS system, all wheel drive and house 335s so I can slay Ferraris for less than 30 thousand dollars.

Different tool for a different purpose, not sure why people don't understand that. There are a gazillion parts for this thing, if you want it to have 500 HP and house 335s go buy the parts to do it. If you don't have those skills develop them or quit bitching. The BRZ is the erector set of vehicles that I thought we'd never see again after the mid 90s.

That said I learned a lot about myself when I drove an FRS back to back with a Mazdaspeed 3, then bought the Mazda because it felt more ridiculous. I sort of wish I had taken my own advice above but I do love that absurd little hatchback.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
2/28/17 11:51 a.m.

I've gotta disagree with David a tiny bit......

I prefer the 86's unadorned styling. (well, besides the fat-lip) I really didn't like the spoiler on the BRZ--- it looks like something out of a JC Whitney catalog--- cheap and tacked-on. I much prefer the understated, clean rear of the Toyota. As long as I got it in a dark color, the "fat lip" wouldn't be nearly as noticeable.

I also like the fact that the twins come on non-egressive rubber. A big reason these cars are so fun is they slide around, and are fun to balance with the gas pedal. Sure, I'd get fatter- sticker rubber for the track, but for the street--- I like the stock tires.

Jerry
Jerry UltraDork
2/28/17 12:08 p.m.

Forget more horspower, make the retail about $20k. Sell by the truckload.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 12:54 p.m.
The0retical wrote: Different tool for a different purpose, not sure why people don't understand that. There are a gazillion parts for this thing, if you want it to have 500 HP and house 335s go buy the parts to do it. If you don't have those skills develop them or quit bitching. The BRZ is the erector set of vehicles that I thought we'd never see again after the mid 90s.

I get it. The BRZ is built with a budget in mind. I'm no stranger to momentum cars- I own an S2000 and have owned 2 Miata's in the past.

The 86 chassis just feels like it could handle considerably more power without feeling unbalanced or overpowered. At my elevation, it felt sorely lacking in the power department, even when compared to other "momentum cars" like the S2000, the ND Miata, RX-8, ect. Again, at sea level, YMMV.

Like anything else, it's build to a price point. However, so are a whole slew of cars (under $30k) that offer stronger acceleration for similar cash:

-ND Miata -Hyundai Genesis Coupe (3.8L or 2.0T) -Camaro (3.6L V6 or 2.0T version) -Mustang Ecoboost -370Z (base= $29,990!) -GTI -WRX -Focus ST

^^^Some of those cars have some advantages, like being based on econo-boxes or rental cars, so they can keep the price down. However, the 86 platform/chassis and gearbox are both based on the Subaru Impreza chassis/platform with a simple strut design up front, so it's not like we're talking about a low production Porsche or Ferrari here.

No one is asking for 500hp here. But an extra ~50hp or so would be nice, and would give it comparable acceleration to some of it's similarly priced competitors.

To my knowledge, the BRZ's gearbox is based on the same unit that's already in the WRX, so it should hold the extra power without an issue. Same for the WRX's OEM clutch. I get that there would be a cost increase to transplant the WRX's engine, but I can't see it being a deal breaker for many potential customers.

Years ago, I remember a few momentum cars that people complained didn't have enough power- the NB Miata and the Solstice/Sky twins. I remember the manufacturers then releasing boosted versions of them- the Mazdaspeed Miata and the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline. From what I can recall, I think the price on the GM twins went up by roughly $2700 vs a similar trimmed "base" Solstice/Sky and the Mazdaspeed had a similar price increase over base. I'm not saying those cars were in any way, shape or form "perfect", but they helped satisfy the itch that the masses complained about without a major price hike.

Really, if Subaru/Toyota followed a similar recipe, they might be able to attract a larger target audience; myself included. I think many on this board would gladly pay an extra $3000-$4000 for a factory boosted BRZ, making somewhere in the area of stock WRX power.

You're right, the aftermarket for these cars is huge, and you're free to boost power to your heart's content. The problem is, the aftermarket generally doesn't deliver the same level of engineering as the manufacturer. As a result, you frequently don't get the same level of reliability, refinement, power delivery and consistency as a factory boosted car. Plus, when you spend $5000+ on a turbo kit, you're throwing away OEM parts that you already paid for vs the cost savings that a factory boosted car provides.

No one is saying that Subaru/Toyota should discontinue the naturally aspirated BRZ/86. They would just like to see a more powerful variant added to the line-up and wouldn't mind paying an extra $3000-$4000 for it. In my mind, that doesn't seem unreasonable. But that's just my $.02

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
2/28/17 2:40 p.m.

In reply to roninsoldier83:

Remember that Mazda couldn't give away the Mazdaspeed Miata's and Pontiac went bust before we know how that would sell. If they are meeting their sales goals with the car as is why bother? I do feel your pain at altitude though. I wonder why it seems to suffer so so much more than some of the other (NA) cars you've compared it too still at altitude, especially the S2K?

Sky_Render
Sky_Render SuperDork
2/28/17 2:55 p.m.

If I didn't need more space, I would totally consider an '86 as a daily driver. They just look like fun to chuck around. And in a DD, do you REALLY need 450 horses?

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
2/28/17 3:03 p.m.

I do feel for roninsoldier83. I used to live in Denver, and at altitude, nearly everything naturally aspirated is slow. When you live out there, you don't notice it too much, as nearly everything is affected. Take that same car to sea level though......whoa! This car has cajones!

Even my 87 Cressida felt powerful at sea level, and it wasn't exactly a rocket-ship.

I could see a legitimate gripe for the Frisbee twins at high-altitude. I'd probably go with a boosted car if I ever returned.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 3:53 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: In reply to roninsoldier83: Remember that Mazda couldn't give away the Mazdaspeed Miata's and Pontiac went bust before we know how that would sell. If they are meeting their sales goals with the car as is why bother? I do feel your pain at altitude though. I wonder why it seems to suffer so so much more than some of the other (NA) cars you've compared it too still at altitude, especially the S2K?

Those are valid points about the Mazdaspeed and GXP/Redline. Although I did enjoy my MSM before I sold it and bought the S2000. I was under the impression that the Frisbee twins weren't selling well, according to magazine headlines... I figured the boosted power might bump sales up a bit.... maybe I'm wrong?

http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/the-10-best-cars-that-nobody-buys#11 http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6607/13-great-cars-2015-nobody-bought/?slide=7

I honestly can't explain why the Frisbee seems so much slower than the ND/S2000 up here. I thought it might have been in my head until I found that TFL Car video. I thought maybe the ND/S2000 just felt faster due to the open-top/more visceral experience. The TFL video showed the ND beat the Frisbee to 60mph by a whopping ~1.4 seconds up here, vs them generally being within ~0.5 seconds of each other according to most of the reviews at sea level. I have no idea why.

Maybe the timing is programmed to be more aggressive in the ND, to help make up for elevation? Or the power to weight ratio isn't as affected due to the ~400 lbs weight advantage? No idea.

I think the S2000 just feels much faster due to actually being faster (even at sea level) thanks to the ~40hp advantage. The VTEC cam switchover also makes it feel much more alive; so I'm sure that's somehow a factor.

IIRC, most of the reviews had the Frisbee trapping in the 1/4 mile around ~93-95mph whereas the AP2 S2000 seemed to trap between 97-100mph, so the Honda should be the faster car anyway. Although some sites have multiple listings for drag strip correction factors that gave me some thought:

http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php

^^^I've always noticed they use 3 different corrections factors for altitude:

-Stock and Mildly Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines

-Extensively Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines

-Extensively Modified Supercharged and Turbocharged Engines

^^^I wouldn't say the S2000 would be considered "extensively modified", but the head flows a ton of air, the valves are relatively big and the VTEC cam lobes are pretty aggressive.... I wouldn't be terribly shocked if this was helpful up here. But I have no evidence, just theory and speculation.

All I know is that the Frisbee could use more power up here.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 Reader
2/28/17 4:09 p.m.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

Ain't that the truth! I remember when I got out of the military in 2006; I drove my 2003 350Z up from Ft Hood, TX to Denver. It was a fun, lively car down in Texas, but when I got up here it really felt like a lifeless dog. You're right, you do get used to it if you drive nothing but NA cars up here.

My current daily is turbocharged (2016 VW Golf R). Although for a weekend car that will see some track time I had a few preferences:

-Relatively lightweight

-Soft top preferred, but not a deal breaker for the right car.

-RWD.

-Manual transmission.

^^^Not a whole lot of affordable boosted cars fit that bill. I owned one of them- my MSM. I drove the Solstice GXP, the motor was just fine, but I didn't like quite a few things about the car itself; that's a story for another thread!

Boosted cars are faster up here, but after my lightly modded MSM, I wanted to return to an NA machine. The MSM was fine on the street, but I was having some trouble keeping it cool at High Plains Raceway. I chalk that up to Mazda not fully developing the MSM for track work and me not wanting to spend the money and get creative. I've ran factory boosted cars on the track before without an issue, but the MSM just didn't seem to be up to the task reliably; so I went back to an NA weekend machine.

So, I ended up with the S2000.

I would like to see how the Frisbee would fare with the WRX's engine/cooling system, but I'm probably beating a dead horse here, and I'm not going to hold my breath!

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
2/28/17 4:33 p.m.

^^ it sounds like you ended up with a great car anyway. Hard to fault an S2000!

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
2/28/17 6:19 p.m.
Appleseed wrote:
irish44j wrote:
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

I'll complain that it still doesn't come with respectable tires....unless it does now. Toyota's site doesn't specify the tire brand, what does this car have on it?

Still buying into that "Its got Prius tires" nonsense?

I don't have the slightest clue what tire the Prius uses, but I assume it's some kind of econo-all-season. I know the earlier BR-Z had Primacy HP87's, which are a summer grand touring tire (read: not a performance tire) better suited to a regular economy sedan like a civic. Of the half-dozen or so people I know who own BR-Zs, every one of them replaced the tires almost immediately with a more performance-oriented tire. I do NOT know what the new BR-Z/86 are shod with, which is why I asked.

So I am buying into the "I'd rather my new car not come with tires that are not the kind of tires I want on that type of car." Nothing to do with Priuses. I actually will be buying a new car next year, and am willing to buy a NEW BR-Z if it suits my needs (since it's unlikely Mazda is going to make a fastback Miata). So I apologize if my interest in "getting what I am paying for" offends your sensibilities. In 2008 when I was thinking about a new car, I said "If the (then 2008) WRX would come with a better suspension and more power, I'd buy it." In November 2008 I bought one of the first 2009s that came out (with better suspension and more power). I'll put my money where my mouth is, as long as the product is what I want.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
2/28/17 7:21 p.m.

We could tell you all about the 280hp STi/TRD version coming out soon that we just got the press release on, but that would be fake news.

LuxInterior
LuxInterior HalfDork
2/28/17 11:49 p.m.

I took an FRS for a test drive last week. I got to drive an FRS for session at high plains raceway last summer. I like the car. I'll probably trade my Focus ST in on an 86.

The 86 doesn't have tons of power or grip. Neither does the ND. But that's the concept.

If you don't like that concept you have two options:

1) Whine about it on the Internet

2) Buy a Mustang.

CobraSpdRH
CobraSpdRH Reader
3/1/17 9:07 a.m.

I feel like this would make a great daily for me, expect for it coming in a 2 door with limited back seat space.

Is there anything out there that shares the characteristics of the 86 but has 4/5 doors? Fun to drive, RWD, manual, lightweight, decent MPG, reasonably priced, newer/warrantied?

Maybe I could get by with the limited rear seat space, but I am a much bigger fan of sport sedans and wagons. Really wish there was a BR-Z sedan.

LuxInterior
LuxInterior HalfDork
3/1/17 2:00 p.m.
CobraSpdRH wrote: Is there anything out there that shares the characteristics of the 86 but has 4/5 doors? Fun to drive, RWD, manual, lightweight, decent MPG, reasonably priced, newer/warrantied?

You've exactly described the BMW E30... well up until the "newer/warrantied" part.

Vracer111
Vracer111 Reader
3/1/17 5:32 p.m.
LuxInterior wrote: I took an FRS for a test drive last week. I got to drive an FRS for session at high plains raceway last summer. I like the car. I'll probably trade my Focus ST in on an 86. The 86 doesn't have tons of power or grip. Neither does the ND. But that's the concept. If you don't like that concept you have two options: 1) Whine about it on the Internet 2) Buy a Mustang.

Or option 3 - replace stock wheels and tires with light weight 17x7.5 wheels wrapped in 205/45-17 Continental ExtremeContact DW (or the new Sport)...NECK SNAPPING ACCELERATON AND GRIPPPPP!

Maniac0301
Maniac0301 Reader
3/2/17 12:04 a.m.

Yup its too expensive. Make it comparable to a FiST and you have a car. The fact that its 10% more expensive kills it.

daeman
daeman Dork
3/2/17 1:23 a.m.
irish44j wrote:
Appleseed wrote: I give this thread less than 10 posts before someone who's never driven an 86 complains about horsepower.

I'll complain that it still doesn't come with respectable tires....unless it does now. Toyota's site doesn't specify the tire brand, what does this car have on it?

I can have a look at what tyres are standard on them tomorrow if you're actually interested and not just taking the piss

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
3/2/17 8:45 a.m.
Vracer111 wrote:
LuxInterior wrote: I took an FRS for a test drive last week. I got to drive an FRS for session at high plains raceway last summer. I like the car. I'll probably trade my Focus ST in on an 86. The 86 doesn't have tons of power or grip. Neither does the ND. But that's the concept. If you don't like that concept you have two options: 1) Whine about it on the Internet 2) Buy a Mustang.

Or option 3 - replace stock wheels and tires with light weight 17x7.5 wheels wrapped in 205/45-17 Continental ExtremeContact DW (or the new Sport)...NECK SNAPPING ACCELERATON AND GRIPPPPP!

Not sure if serious. Neck snapper it ain't.

The0retical
The0retical Dork
3/2/17 9:04 a.m.

In reply to roninsoldier83:

You present a number of valid points which I very much agree with and I can certainly understand your point at higher altitudes. I think the problem is that the Frisbee twin's don't share enough in common with the WRX in the engine department where you could simply pop on a hood with a scoop for the TMIC and transplant the turbocharged WRX engine.

It would necessitate a fair bit of engineering work to get the car to the point where an OEM could limit liability for reliability issues and then they'd have to figure out how to package the motor. All that on an already low volume car. I'm not sure it's a winning proposition especially with how developed the aftermarket already is for it.

While you're certainly correct with the MSM and Redline/GXP twins the flip side is Mazda not doing their due diligence with the turbocharged CX-7. Yea it has the same 2.3L mill as the MS3 without the turbo in stock form, but when you add in the turbo... Well it scored a zero in Consumer Reports reliability scale. A zero. I didn't even think that was possible and it did a number on Mazda's reputation.

So it cuts both ways I suppose.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
3/2/17 9:51 a.m.
The0retical wrote: In reply to roninsoldier83: You present a number of valid points which I very much agree with and I can certainly understand your point at higher altitudes. I think the problem is that the Frisbee twin's don't share enough in common with the WRX in the engine department where you could simply pop on a hood with a scoop for the TMIC and transplant the turbocharged WRX engine. It would necessitate a fair bit of engineering work to get the car to the point where an OEM could limit liability for reliability issues and then they'd have to figure out how to package the motor. All that on an already low volume car. I'm not sure it's a winning proposition especially with how developed the aftermarket already is for it. While you're certainly correct with the MSM and Redline/GXP twins the flip side is Mazda not doing their due diligence with the turbocharged CX-7. Yea it has the same 2.3L mill as the MS3 without the turbo in stock form, but when you add in the turbo... Well it scored a zero in Consumer Reports reliability scale. A zero. I didn't even think that was possible and it did a number on Mazda's reputation. So it cuts both ways I suppose.

Yep, the turbo hangs so low, the stock FA20DIT in the BRZ I think puts the turbo below the subframe. It would necessitate a lot of extra work to shoehorn it in.

daeman
daeman Dork
3/2/17 7:35 p.m.

Ok, there was a new arrival 86 this morning and the tyres were Michelin premacy HP. Didn't really check size as it was dumping down with rain. For that same reason I didn't bother going looking for a prius to compare.

Tyres appeared to be very uninspiring looking all season econo tread looking things.

Vracer111
Vracer111 Reader
3/2/17 8:37 p.m.
DaveEstey wrote:
Vracer111 wrote:
LuxInterior wrote: I took an FRS for a test drive last week. I got to drive an FRS for session at high plains raceway last summer. I like the car. I'll probably trade my Focus ST in on an 86. The 86 doesn't have tons of power or grip. Neither does the ND. But that's the concept. If you don't like that concept you have two options: 1) Whine about it on the Internet 2) Buy a Mustang.

Or option 3 - replace stock wheels and tires with light weight 17x7.5 wheels wrapped in 205/45-17 Continental ExtremeContact DW (or the new Sport)...NECK SNAPPING ACCELERATON AND GRIPPPPP!

Not sure if serious. Neck snapper it ain't.

The emoji's were there for a reason...

There is one aspect of an 86 with good high performance rubber mounted on light weight wheels that make it really stand out though... it's almost instantaneous in lane changing - basically teleports to the next lane in an emergency if you have to AND it does so in an extremely stable manner.

If I had to describe the FR-S in a single word it would be 'agility', that is the essence of what the car is about. It's extremely reponsive and precise yet also simultaneously very planted - even more so with the right wheel/tire combo and supporting mods on it.

Vracer111
Vracer111 Reader
3/2/17 9:02 p.m.
daeman wrote: Ok, there was a new arrival 86 this morning and the tyres were Michelin premacy HP. Didn't really check size as it was dumping down with rain. For that same reason I didn't bother going looking for a prius to compare. Tyres appeared to be very uninspiring looking all season econo tread looking things.

The Primacy HP's are the 'Prius tires' because they were a Summer Sport tire option on a performance package spec Prius in Japan. Factory tire size will be 215/45-17. The tires are actually pretty decent, they work well with the chassis for road use - it was a genius move that perfectly suits the car most of the time. For the second set of tires or for any track use though, it would be best to get any other tire because: 1) the Primacy HP are nearly $200 each, 2) their wet weather capability is merely 'adequate', 3) at speed (triple digits) the car feels 'floaty' on the stock tires [not in terms of sidewall but in terms of the entire car just moving all over the place, especially feel it in the rear], and 4) grippier tires (but not rediculous grip tires) are more fun with the excellent chassis of the 86 and the car is definitely more planted feeling at all times.

Personally, the size I feel that suits the stock chassis best would be a 205/45-17 specced in a Max Performance category tire. The chassis is just magic with that sized tire.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
3/3/17 7:30 a.m.
daeman wrote: Ok, there was a new arrival 86 this morning and the tyres were Michelin premacy HP. Didn't really check size as it was dumping down with rain. For that same reason I didn't bother going looking for a prius to compare. Tyres appeared to be very uninspiring looking all season econo tread looking things.

They definitely NOT all seasons. 3 season tires, at best. You will rather eat the business end of a shotgun than drive it in snow.

Ask me how I know.

Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

Subscribe Today

Also get your instant access to the digital edition of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine!

Learn More
TFdcPajww49JPHSqkOmCa8cKKdSOcghD