2019 BMW 3 Series to be Lighter, More Powerful

For the 2019 model year, BMW introduces a newly developed G20 chassis that promises a 3 Series that’s better overall.

The 330i and 330i xDrive are both powered by a 2.0L four-cylinder engine producing 255 hp and a whopping 295 lb-ft of torque. That’s a slight increase in horsepower over the current model year engine, but the jump from 258 lb-ft represents a more than 14% increase in torque. Initial 0-60 times are in the 5.6 second range, which is a tick faster than a V6 Toyota Camry.

We are holding out to see what the M340i xDrive Sedan can do, as the manufacturer says it will come with the quintessentially BMW straight six. They estimate 0-60 times for this latest version, which produces 382 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque, down into the 4.2 second range. More details are expected when the 340i is released next summer.

The new 3 Series line comes standard with an 8-speed Steptronic transmission promising quicker shift times and a Launch Control function. Drivers can use shift paddles mounted to the steering wheel to manually select the gears, and the transmission is programmed to “adapt its shift strategy according to the route and driving situation,” BMW states. A traditional manual gearbox is not currently indicated as an option, though we are holding out hope for the G20-based M3, which is set to come out sometime in the next two years.

Along with the bump in power, the new 3 Series utilizes more aluminum and high-strength steel to shave more than 120 lbs. of weight and achieve 50:50 weight distribution front to rear. Further refining the 3 Series to provide a “sportier” driving experience, according to the manufacturer, are a 25% more rigid body and a “speed-sensitive” power steering rack to improve driving feel.

If that’s not enough for you, BMW will offer adaptive M suspension with electronically controlled dampers, variable sport steering, M Sport brakes, and an M Sport electronically-controlled differential. Make a checklist of options and reap M Division benefits with upgraded handling components as a factory option.

Along with all the other improvements and electronic aides, the G20 chassis will introduce the “BMW Intelligent Personal Assistant”–a feature that will, for example, allow you to tell the car you are cold and have it automatically turn up the heat for you. Welcome to 2019.

The 2019 BMW 3 Series line promises a lot. We are looking forward to the next few years of development on this new platform.

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Comments
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irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/11/18 6:50 p.m.

 "Initial 0-60 times are in the 5.6 second range, which is a tick faster than a V6 Toyota Camry."

Ah yes, the Camry. The benchmark upon which all performance cars are based. yes

"Further refining the 3 Series to provide a "sportier" driving experience, according to the manufacturer,"         

You know what would make for a sportier driving experience? A manual transmission. Especially since the driver's right hand will be 100% available thanks to.....

""BMW Intelligent Personal Assistant"–a feature that will, for example, allow you to tell the car you are cold and have it automatically turn up the heat for you"

angry

Also, my neighbor's 2017 Accord called and it wants its wheels back!

--

This is officially where Hyundai passes BMW on the "Ultimate Driving Machine" scale, offering the G70 with a manual.....

 

STM317
STM317 SuperDork
10/11/18 6:56 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

Maybe when you're rallying one of these in 25 years, you can program the "BMW Intelligent Personal Assistant" to be your navigator.

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/11/18 7:00 p.m.
STM317 said:

In reply to irish44j :

Maybe when you're rallying one of these in 25 years, you can program the "BMW Intelligent Personal Assistant" to be your navigator.

After watching my actual rally co-driver spending an entire day taking half the engine bay apart just to replace a valve cover gasket on his e92, I totally lost all interest in any new BMW lol....At one point I thought he was just going to say "screw it, I'll live with this oil leak." And this is a guy who builds e30 engines....

Hmm, I wonder if I can get Intelligent Personal Assistant to pay half of the rally entry fee..........:D

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/11/18 7:04 p.m.

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/11/18 7:06 p.m.

"I hate modern BMWs"

Also, ignore that I haven't driven or owned a modern BMW.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
10/11/18 7:13 p.m.
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

The 3 series is 4 doors and the 4 series is 2 doors. Except when it’s not, like the 430i Gran Coupe. 

Both Audi and BMW split their lines in a way that made sense, like this. And kept it that way for about 2 years before introducing 4-door versions of their 2-door chassis, even though both already HAD 4-door cars in the same size class. 

02Pilot
02Pilot SuperDork
10/11/18 7:15 p.m.

This is just one more nail in a coffin that is already quite firmly nailed shut. BMW's soul must have brought a pretty penny when they sold it to the Devil, who happened to be driving a champagne metallic Camry at the time.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
10/11/18 7:43 p.m.

I don’t know. Maybe it’s just middle-age me contemplating buying a car in the next couple of years, but lighter and torquier sounds good to me. 

Ransom
Ransom PowerDork
10/11/18 7:44 p.m.

Oof. Just realized that as excited as I am about putting that four somewhere interesting, BMW won't give me a transmission. Er, I guess they're already using that family of engine, so hopefully it'll bolt up to a current manual...

Anyhow, I'm sure I'd rather drive that than my Mini. I sure dig the F3x that ReachNow is using, in terms of a civilized daily driver. I'm not taken with the styling, but then, I actually had to sit down a few months ago and look up how many generations there had been since the E46 and how to tell them apart. I can now, but that doesn't say much for the styling, does it? This feels like an evolution of that. The E9x and F3x whatever have both grown on me in a sort of "when you see one tucked down a bit on some nice big wheels and tires it looks pretty dang good" kind of way. They both fade to anonymity on pedestrian rolling stock.

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/11/18 7:47 p.m.
Ransom said:

Oof. Just realized that as excited as I am about putting that four somewhere interesting, BMW won't give me a transmission. Er, I guess they're already using that family of engine, so hopefully it'll bolt up to a current manual...

Anyhow, I'm sure I'd rather drive that than my Mini. I sure dig the F3x that ReachNow is using, in terms of a civilized daily driver. I'm not taken with the styling, but then, I actually had to sit down a few months ago and look up how many generations there had been since the E46 and how to tell them apart. I can now, but that doesn't say much for the styling, does it? This feels like an evolution of that. The E9x and F3x whatever have both grown on me in a sort of "when you see one tucked down a bit on some nice big wheels and tires it looks pretty dang good" kind of way. They both fade to anonymity on pedestrian rolling stock.

I personally think the 3-series in the last decade have all looked pretty good visually. My biggest beef is that they're pretty uninteresting to drive, putting aside the ridiculously complex everything that make them DIY nightmares. 

Lof8
Lof8 Dork
10/11/18 8:05 p.m.

Pretty much anything on Craigslist for under $500 excites me more than the bmws of the last 15 years. 

yupididit
yupididit UltraDork
10/11/18 8:15 p.m.

I like it a lot. No manual trans doesn't bother me in the least. But, I'd never buy a modern BMW for one reason, I hate BMW interiors. 

 

All of you who are complaining; how many of you would've bought this car in the next 3 years? Or at all?

I always enjoy watching the GRM tears over a new car they'd never buy lol. The 2700lb 400hp manual 2 door rwd wagon for $17,000 new will never exist lmao

Lof8
Lof8 Dork
10/11/18 8:22 p.m.
yupididit said:

 

All of you who are complaining; how many of you would've bought this car in the next 3 years? Or at all?

 

Would I buy a car that doesn’t intrigue me at all now or in 3 years? No. That’s my point. 

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/11/18 9:19 p.m.
yupididit said:

I like it a lot. No manual trans doesn't bother me in the least. But, I'd never buy a modern BMW for one reason, I hate BMW interiors. 

 

All of you who are complaining; how many of you would've bought this car in the next 3 years? Or at all?

I always enjoy watching the GRM tears over a new car they'd never buy lol. The 2700lb 400hp manual 2 door rwd wagon for $17,000 new will never exist lmao

As of last year I was strongly considering buying a 3-series (probably 1-year used/CPO). In the end, practicality won out and I got a GTI instead (brand new, with manual transmission). My last two daily drivers have been bought new, and I'm probably in BMW's targeted income range/demographic for the 3-series (well, if I didn't waste all my money doing rally).

I would not have considered buying THIS car, however, since it doesn't come with a manual. But I do buy new cars if they have the features that are worth it to me. So, can I shed GRM tears?

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/11/18 9:32 p.m.

In reply to yupididit :

I did. And it has a manual transmission. laugh

yupididit
yupididit UltraDork
10/11/18 11:17 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

You have my permission

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed SuperDork
10/12/18 7:08 a.m.

My main issue with German cars is the cost of admission.............aside from VW any ways. The vehicles have a base price then you have to add $5K-$10K just to get the things that other manufacturers already give you. I have shopped BMWs several times in my life but now I have given up. That car as pictured is probably $40K-$50K and then you add the extras. 

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
10/12/18 8:36 a.m.

For whatever it's worth, BMW's head of development was quoted as saying:

"The G20 has to beat everybody in the segment in driving dynamics because all the Australian, UK and American journalists say, 'Ooh, the E46 CSL was the last real 3 Series.' I don't want to hear that E36 M3 anymore."

turtl631
turtl631 HalfDork
10/12/18 9:18 a.m.

Haha.  Good.  If it can dance, some of us can forgive the lack of a manual.

deaconblue
deaconblue New Reader
10/12/18 11:00 a.m.
Driven5 said:

For whatever it's worth, BMW's head of development was quoted as saying:

"The G20 has to beat everybody in the segment in driving dynamics because all the Australian, UK and American journalists say, 'Ooh, the E46 CSL was the last real 3 Series.' I don't want to hear that E36 M3 anymore."

Like my old man used to always say "The truth hurts, doesn't it."

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/12/18 4:15 p.m.
turtl631 said:

Haha.  Good.  If it can dance, some of us can forgive the lack of a manual.

making a car handle better than stock is reasonably inexpensive and easy. Adding a manual to a modern car that never came with one is less easy, especially a BMW that probably has 16 modules controlling the transmission and none of them will work if you swapped something else. 

Bmerchant
Bmerchant
10/12/18 8:30 p.m.

The heck with the BMW, where were the pictures taken?  I want to drive there - in my Miata (or even my Prius 7).  

 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
10/12/18 8:36 p.m.
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
10/12/18 8:37 p.m.
irish44j said:
turtl631 said:

Haha.  Good.  If it can dance, some of us can forgive the lack of a manual.

making a car handle better than stock is reasonably inexpensive and easy. Adding a manual to a modern car that never came with one is less easy, especially a BMW that probably has 16 modules controlling the transmission and none of them will work if you swapped something else. 

Only one module CONTROLS the transmission, but sixteen require data from that module...

 

 

02Pilot
02Pilot SuperDork
10/12/18 8:39 p.m.
Knurled. said:
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

A Porsche badge does not a Porsche make....

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/12/18 8:56 p.m.
02Pilot said:
Knurled. said:
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

A Porsche badge does not a Porsche make....

The original Porsche was a hybrid electric-drive motor,, and it was rear-engined.....

And Porsche would probably not exist any more if not for the car they designed for Volkswagen.....

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
10/12/18 9:02 p.m.
irish44j said:
02Pilot said:
Knurled. said:
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

A Porsche badge does not a Porsche make....

The original Porsche was a hybrid electric-drive motor,, and it was rear-engined.....

And Porsche would probably not exist any more if not for the car they designed for Volkswagen.....

Ah yes, the four wheel hub-motored series hybrid that Dr. Ing. Porsche designed in 1899.

 

The original Porsche car (the 356) was a nice body on a Type 1 floorpan.  The chassis diverged somewhat after that, of course, and then the 914 happened, and then the 924 (the Porsche built with VW running gear and an Audi engine), and then you have things like trucks built with Volkswagen-corporate-identity (VR6) engines....

 

 

Porsche purists hated the 911 because it wasn't a 356.  It had struts instead of torsion bars up front, and it had a really heavy SIX-cylinder engine out back that was so damned complicated that it needed a dry sump oiling system, unlike the simplicity of the genteel, refined 356C.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/12/18 9:08 p.m.
Knurled. said:
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

No. Porsche has never stirred my emotions.  Not once. The only Porsche that I found interesting is a tank from WWII. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
10/12/18 9:11 p.m.

Ooh, neatness!

 

The early 356 automobile bodies produced at Gmünd were handcrafted in aluminum, but when production moved to Zuffenhausen, Germany in 1950, models produced there were steel-bodied. The aluminium bodied cars from that very small company are what are now referred to as "prototypes". Porsche contracted Reutter to build the steel bodies and eventually bought the Reutter company in 1963.[7] The Reutter company retained the seat manufacturing part of the business and changed its name to "Recaro".

 

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/12/18 10:14 p.m.
Appleseed said:
Knurled. said:
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

No. Porsche has never stirred my emotions.  Not once. The only Porsche that I found interesting is a tank from WWII. 

It's curious - I drove my uncle's late-80s 911 turbo years ago and can't say I really enjoyed it at all. nor have I been in love with driving a few more modern rear-engined Porsches (I have not driven a Cayman, however).  But my 924S is, by far of every car I've ever owned, the one I enjoy driving the most. Everything about the way it drives is pretty much perfect (excepting the 70s-80s interior) from the perfect-weight steering to the perfectly-placed pedals to the amazing weight balance. I've owned a number of cars that are twice as powerful or twice as fast on a track and none of them had that feeling.

Brian_13
Brian_13 New Reader
10/18/18 6:50 p.m.
Knurled. said:
Appleseed said:

Wait, is the 3 series the 4 doors now, or is that the 4 series? There's no manual option anymore.  BMW has me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Is this a bad time to tell you that the majority of Porsches sold are SUVs?

laugh

And not just SUVs... Audi SUVs! surprise

Brian_13
Brian_13 New Reader
10/18/18 6:58 p.m.
irish44j said:

 "Initial 0-60 times are in the 5.6 second range, which is a tick faster than a V6 Toyota Camry."

Ah yes, the Camry. The benchmark upon which all performance cars are based. yes

That's the part which caught my attention. Another one: the only engine choice in the 2019 Ford Ranger mid-size pickup truck will be a variant of the EcoBoost 2.3, which is technically similar and higher in output than this BMW engine (with only 15% more displacement). Yes, the base engine in a cheap pickup truck. It's hard to see what that BMW purchase price is buying.

Harvey
Harvey SuperDork
10/18/18 9:13 p.m.

I'm cool with the 8 speed auto. My wife's 335i has the 6 speed auto and it's pretty decent. I like that they are making it lighter. Realistically though I'd have an M2 or an E92 M3 instead.

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/18/18 9:24 p.m.
Harvey said:

I'm cool with the 8 speed auto. My wife's 335i has the 6 speed auto and it's pretty decent. I like that they are making it lighter. Realistically though I'd have an M2 or an E92 M3 instead.

I mean, in a nod to being a "sports sedan" one would have thought that BMW would at least put a DCT in the 3-series and not a slushbox. Hell, even inexpensive things like the GTI get a DCT....Perhaps it's not a true performance upgrade over a standard automatic, but at least it would allow the 3-series to still call itself a "sports sedan" to some degree. 

racerfink
racerfink UltraDork
10/19/18 12:59 a.m.

Hmmm...  went to compare an ATS 2.0t, but it appears Cadillac only makes them as Coupes now, no Sedan any more.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/19/18 8:03 a.m.
irish44j said:
Harvey said:

I'm cool with the 8 speed auto. My wife's 335i has the 6 speed auto and it's pretty decent. I like that they are making it lighter. Realistically though I'd have an M2 or an E92 M3 instead.

I mean, in a nod to being a "sports sedan" one would have thought that BMW would at least put a DCT in the 3-series and not a slushbox. Hell, even inexpensive things like the GTI get a DCT....Perhaps it's not a true performance upgrade over a standard automatic, but at least it would allow the 3-series to still call itself a "sports sedan" to some degree. 

It's because the DCT's aren't a great a daily driver gearbox. The 1 series was the last non-M car that got one.

They are amazing when you are trying to go rapidly though. And the new ZF gearboxes shift nearly as fast (we are talking milliseconds) and are smoother in DD use.

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
10/19/18 8:20 a.m.
z31maniac said:

It's because the DCT's aren't a great a daily driver gearbox. The 1 series was the last non-M car that got one.

They are amazing when you are trying to go rapidly though. And the new ZF gearboxes shift nearly as fast (we are talking milliseconds) and are smoother in DD use.

Agreed.  In anything short of outright racing, I'd rather have a regular auto.  In traffic, a lot of DCTs give me the feeling of driving a manual, but the guy in the passenger seat has the clutch pedal.  Plus, turbos and torque converters are very good friends from a performance perspective.  

irish44j
irish44j UltimaDork
10/19/18 7:06 p.m.
z31maniac said:
irish44j said:
Harvey said:

I'm cool with the 8 speed auto. My wife's 335i has the 6 speed auto and it's pretty decent. I like that they are making it lighter. Realistically though I'd have an M2 or an E92 M3 instead.

I mean, in a nod to being a "sports sedan" one would have thought that BMW would at least put a DCT in the 3-series and not a slushbox. Hell, even inexpensive things like the GTI get a DCT....Perhaps it's not a true performance upgrade over a standard automatic, but at least it would allow the 3-series to still call itself a "sports sedan" to some degree. 

It's because the DCT's aren't a great a daily driver gearbox. The 1 series was the last non-M car that got one.

They are amazing when you are trying to go rapidly though. And the new ZF gearboxes shift nearly as fast (we are talking milliseconds) and are smoother in DD use.

interesting, shows what I know lol...

Then again, I didn't even bother with the DCT when I went shopping for my GTI last month. Three pedals from the start!

Harvey
Harvey SuperDork
10/25/18 4:29 p.m.

I've not driven a DCT, but I've heard the same from friends that have had them. The performance is great if you are hauling ass, but around town it's annoying. One friend had the E60 M5 with the V10 and DCT and that DCT was a big pain point for him. Made him not want to drive the car for casual trips around town.

Each iteration seems to get less annoying, but at this point the regular autos have caught back up in terms of shifting speed as well as offering a better overall driving experience.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
10/25/18 5:30 p.m.

So other than the first digit of 330. The other two are meaningless. Unfortunately Mercs have suffered the same fate as the S550 for 2017 only has a 4.7 Motor in it.  And because they propagated the bigger number is better game on there cars they can not call it the 320. They could call it the 320itt. Now that would be a cool nod to the past.  

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
10/25/18 5:41 p.m.
Harvey said:

One friend had the E60 M5 with the V10 and DCT and that DCT was a big pain point for him. Made him not want to drive the car for casual trips around town.

That's because your friend had the SMG and not a DCT.  It's a single conventional dry clutch, just like in a traditional manual transmission except operated electro-hydraulically, rather than a dual (typically wet) clutch system.

I have not lived with a DCT for an extended period of time, but the time I have spent driving them on the street was certainly not any more annoying to me than a conventional automatic.  The points of minor 'annoyance' due to their inherent characteristics are merely different between the two.  In either case, I find that pretty much any time there is something substantially annoying it's primarily the fault of the manufacturer and their tuning of the system, rather than anything inherent to the style of transmission.

Harvey
Harvey SuperDork
10/26/18 7:56 a.m.
Driven5 said:
Harvey said:

One friend had the E60 M5 with the V10 and DCT and that DCT was a big pain point for him. Made him not want to drive the car for casual trips around town.

That's because your friend had the SMG and not a DCT.  It's a single conventional dry clutch, just like in a traditional manual transmission except operated electro-hydraulically, rather than a dual (typically wet) clutch system.

I have not lived with a DCT for an extended period of time, but the time I have spent driving them on the street was certainly not any more annoying to me than a conventional automatic.  The points of minor 'annoyance' due to their inherent characteristics are merely different between the two.  In either case, I find that pretty much any time there is something substantially annoying it's primarily the fault of the manufacturer and their tuning of the system, rather than anything inherent to the style of transmission.

Ah see, you're right. I mixed up the two. All of the complaints I've heard were for SMG transmissions.

rothwem
rothwem New Reader
10/26/18 8:25 a.m.
rslifkin said:
z31maniac said:

It's because the DCT's aren't a great a daily driver gearbox. The 1 series was the last non-M car that got one.

They are amazing when you are trying to go rapidly though. And the new ZF gearboxes shift nearly as fast (we are talking milliseconds) and are smoother in DD use.

Agreed.  In anything short of outright racing, I'd rather have a regular auto.  In traffic, a lot of DCTs give me the feeling of driving a manual, but the guy in the passenger seat has the clutch pedal.  Plus, turbos and torque converters are very good friends from a performance perspective.  

I actually really liked the last DCT car I drove, though it was an Audi Q3 rental I had in Italy, not the BMW box.  It seemed like they addressed all the issues I had with the earlier dual clutch transmissions--its was silky smooth taking off, and the paddles responded instantly.  The tune was a bit lazy a fuel economy focused, but a quick double tap of the paddle had me in 5th in a half second and ready to take an exit ramp.

Wit that said, I think the BMW DCT is an older design and I've never driven one.  I'd really like to though, since the Q3 was completely and totally disappointing from a dynamic standpoint and I trust BMW way more to build a nicely handling car.  

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/26/18 9:28 a.m.

Yeah, the DCT in my 135 is essentially 13-14 year old technology at this point. 

I'd like to drive a new DCT in one of the M cars, or a new Audi TT. But if I do that, I suspect I'll be looking into selling a kidney on the black market so I can buy one.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/26/18 9:32 a.m.

Oh I also wanted to point out, that if you put the car full manual mode, (DCT lever kicked over to the left and you've pressed the "Sport" button behind the lever), it takes care of 99% of the wonky lurch/shudder/slow response from the DCT. 

But the whole point was, I'm sitting in traffic, I don't want to keep paying attention to the gear. 

With the windows up and the HK stereo going you can't hear the engine, and the tq is everywhere so always pulls strong, unless you have it full throttle up near the top of the rev range................which you can't really do in heavy traffic.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
10/26/18 9:40 a.m.

I don't see the point in SCT's these days.  Modern auto's are so good what's the point in the extra complexity of a DCT especially when it comes with the clutches, hydraulics atc.  For anything other than an all out supercar, I"d rather have a 'rea' auto.  

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
10/26/18 10:14 a.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

As much as I love the idea of DCT's, from primarily a maintenance perspective I would tend to agree with you.  However, from a functional implementation standpoint, the good DCT's all connect the driver to the car like a manual when in manual/sport mode. Meanwhile, I have only ever driven one conventional auto that was actually setup to lock the torque converter correctly when in manual/sport mode, in order to actually make the driver feel more directly connected to the car and live up to it's title. Until they all start figuring out that the feeling of a rubber band between the engine and transmission when trying to 'dance' with the car is a decidedly un-sporty one, there will always be a place for DCT among people who actually care about the feel of the driving experience under more conditions than just a romp of the gas pedal. But once they finally do, it'll be 'game over'.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
10/26/18 11:39 a.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

I totally agree with what you're saying, but it proves that a modern auto can be as good as a DCT, that they aren't is more to do with decisions made about how to program the torque convertor lock up etc.  There's no reason I can think of that you couldn't make a true auto feel the same as a DCT with less real world complexity.  The problem is it really doesn't matter to OEM's.  They are building cars to sell or lease new to owners who will keep them for 1-4 years, during which time it's unlikely you will need to service or replaces the clutch(es) in a DCT or run into issues wil solenoids, hydraulics etc. failing and needing service.  That expensive or time consuming issue is passed down to owner 2-3-4 etc.  And right now 'DCT' has far more marketing cache than 'automatic'

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
10/26/18 11:46 a.m.

^As mentioned though, BMW no longer uses them in non-M cars. Audi and VW and the supercars use them. 

Outside of that, I think they are already falling out of favor. Everyone is going to the ZF 8 speed for the most part. 

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
10/26/18 12:03 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

The only point I can disagree on is marketing cache outside of the more hard-core enthusiast based cars. Even for use of DCT as the automatic for VAG I still don't feel it's really a major marketing point anymore, it's just that they've made one good enough to not have to make marketing excuses for it vs the competition either. Since almost nobody outside of the enthusiast community still has any idea what actually differentiates a DCT 'automatic' from a conventional automatic, nor really cares, there has been a shift to simply focusing on how many gears your transmission has vs the competition...Which, if anything, tips the scales back in favor of conventional automatics for all but a few niche applications. Oddly enough, one of the biggest accomplishments of DCT's has been forcing good old fashioned torque converter automatics to up their game and finally being to realize their potential.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
10/26/18 12:47 p.m.

I was trying to find the total weight of this new car...I couldn't find that, but it turns out the 2018 330i xDrive weighs 3705lbs surprise

Harvey
Harvey SuperDork
10/26/18 3:36 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

I was trying to find the total weight of this new car...I couldn't find that, but it turns out the 2018 330i xDrive weighs 3705lbs surprise

That's lighter than my 2011 335i xDrive at 3825lbs

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