The 2022 Subaru BRZ Is Here, and It’s Still Naturally Aspirated

Subaru is touting that the new iteration of its BRZ will be the “lightest rear-wheel drive 2+2 production sports car in U.S. market” with an expected curb weight of 2800 pounds.

Now to the part we’re sure reading this for: The 2022 model will be powered by a 2.4-liter, naturally aspirated flat-four good for 228 horsepower and 184 lb.-ft. of torque.

Here's how the new BRZ compares to the outgoing model:

  2022 Subaru BRZ 2020 Subaru BRZ
engine 4-cylinder horizontally opposed (Boxer), alloy cylinder block and cylinder heads 4-cylinder, horizontally opposed (Subaru Boxer), die-cast aluminum alloy cylinder block
displacement 2.4-liter 2.0-liter
bore x stroke 3.70x3.39 in. (94x86 mm) 3.39x3.39 in. (86x86 mm)
compression ratio 13.5:1 12.5:1
horsepower 228 @ 7000 rpm 205 @ 7000 rpm (manual); 200 @ 7000 rpm (automatic)
torque 184 lb.-ft. @ 3700 rpm 156 lb.-ft. @ 6400 rpm (manual); 151 lb.-ft. @ 6400 rpm (automatic)
valvetrain Chain-driven double overhead camshafts (DOHC), 4 valves per cylinder, Dual Active Valve Control System (DAVCS) controls valve timing on intake and exhaust camshafts Chain-driven double overhead camshafts (DOHC), 4 valves per cylinder, Subaru Dual Active Valve Control System variable valve timing on intake and exhaust camshafts
transmission Standard: 6-speed manual with short-throw shifter
Optional: 6-speed automatic with steering wheel paddle shifters and downshift blipping control
Limited-slip rear differential is standard for all
Standard: 6-speed manual
Optional (Limited only): 6-speed automatic with manual shift mode, downshift blipping control and steering wheel paddle shifters
stability/traction control Vehicle Stability Control with traction control and 5 settings Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) with traction control system (TCS); multi-mode switch with Track mode and TCS Off switch
BRZ tS: STI-tuned Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control System
suspension 4-wheel independent
Front: MacPherson-type struts, lower L-arms, coil springs, stabilizer bar
Rear: Double wishbone, coil springs, stabilizer bar
4-wheel independent
Performance Package (optional for Limited): SACHS® performance dampers
BRZ tS: High-performance STI sport-tuned suspension with SACHS® performance dampers, STI coil springs, plus STI flexible draw stiffener on front crossmember and STI flexible V-bar strut tower braces
wheels 17-inch aluminum alloy on Premium
18-inch aluminum alloy on Limited
Limited: 17x7.0 in. aluminum alloy: black w/ machine finish
Performance Package: 17x7.5 in. aluminum alloy: high-luster gray finish
BRZ tS: 18x7.5 in. STI aluminum alloy: matte bronze finish
tires 215/45 R17 87W Premium
215/40 R18 85Y Limited
Limited and Performance Package: 215/45 R17 87W summer performance
BRZ tS: 215/40 R18 85Y
brakes 4-wheel ventilated disc Front: 11.6 in. ventilated disc, dual-piston calipers; Performance Package and BRZ tS: 12.8 in BREMBO®  ventilated disc, 4-piston calipers
Rear: Limited: 11.4 in. ventilated disc, single-piston calipers
wheelbase 101.4 in. 101.2 in.
length 167.9 in. 166.7 in.
width 69.9 in. 69.9 in.
height 51.6 in. 52.0 in.
curb weight

Estimated for U.S. model: 6-speed manual: Premium 2815 lbs. Limited 2835 lbs.
Automatic Premium 2864 lbs. Automatic Limited 2881 lbs.

6-speed manual: Limited 2798 lbs. Limited w/ Performance Package 2817 lbs. BRZ tS: 2833 lbs.
6-speed automatic: Limited 2840 lbs.

So although the new model is around 17 pounds heavier, it comes with 23 more horsepower and 28 more lb.-ft. of torque. A limited-slip differential also looks to be available for all 2022 BRZs—both manual and automatic.

There are at least a few similarities, however, as both models are virtually the same size and share 17- and 18-inch wheel sizes as well as 215/45 and 215/40 tire sizes.

Production of the new BRZ will take place at Subaru's Gunma, Japan, assembly plant, and models will appear in showrooms around this time next year.

So, is it everything you thought it would be and more, or are you still holding out hope that there's a hotter version on the way?

Read the full press release below:

The all-new, rear-wheel drive 2022 Subaru BRZ sports car made its Global Debut today at the Thermal Club Raceway in Thermal, CA. Subaru developed the all-new BRZ with the same fundamentals of sports car design that it used to create the original: low vehicle weight, an ultra-low center of gravity with precision steering and handling in an affordable 2+2 package. But for the 2022 model year, the BRZ features more power, better handling, improved styling, a 50-percent increase in torsional stiffness and a modern interior. A pure sports car with Subaru DNA.

Running counter to the current trend of power over precision, the 2022 Subaru BRZ focuses on simplicity and fun. Designed to deliver an unmatched driving experience, the all-new BRZ features a new and more powerful 228 horsepower 2.4-liter horizontally opposed engine. Sitting low in the chassis, the Subaru BOXER’s unique design allows the BRZ to achieve a Center of Gravity (CoG) even lower than the previous BRZ and on par with exotic hyper-cars. The ultra-low CoG is critical to delivering unrivaled handling, with a low polar moment and quick reaction to driver inputs. The 2.4-liter naturally aspirated engine redlines at 7,000 RPM and delivers a 15-percent increase in torque. The 2022 BRZ will be offered in both Premium and Limited trims and is available with two transmission choices; a standard six-speed manual or an available six-speed automatic with a new Sport mode designed for more aggressive driving. The new Sport mode allows for more rapid downshifts with automatic throttle blipping and utilizes yaw sensors to hold the transmission in a lower gear during hard cornering to maximize performance.

Clever and Modern Design

Despite its sporting intentions, the 2022 Subaru BRZ does not sacrifice everyday comfort and practicality. The 2+2 seating and folding rear seats create a useful cargo area that has space for carrying a mountain bike, golf clubs, or even four race tires and tools for track days. Utilizing aluminum for the roof, front fenders and hood, the 2022 Subaru BRZ has an estimated curb weight of just under 2,900 lbs., delivering on its promise of accessible performance.

The BRZ’s bold new styling is as impressive as its handling prowess. The overall impression is modern, agile and powerful, with focused and functional aerodynamic details. The tidy coupe design is just over an inch longer and almost half an inch lower than its predecessor, resulting in a low and wide frontal area set off by large functional air intakes. The grille is set low and is capped by proud fender arches that allow just enough room for suspension points. A narrowed greenhouse accentuates the bold fender flares and the roofline features a subtle “double bubble” appearance, a nod to vintage racing cars. 

The aggressive design flows into bold front fenders with a large side vent. The functional side vent reduces drag by ducting air from under the hood and fenders. The released air is directed to a side sill spoiler that creates downforce at speed.  A small fin at the back of the rear-wheel arch also assists in airflow adding stability at speed. At the rear of the car, the large rear fenders and wider track flow into dual exhausts for a low and wide stance. This visual heft is lightened by a narrower greenhouse and rear hatch which flow into a dramatic upturned “ducktail” rear spoiler.

Driver Focused Interior

For 2022, the Subaru BRZ features a new interior with every detail focused on the driver. A new customizable 7-inch digital dashboard is the focal point with the tachometer front and center featuring an integrated digital speedometer readout. To the left of the tachometer is a programmable meter that can change to show amps, water temperature or a g-meter, once again emphasizing the BRZ’s performance capability. When the BRZ is placed in track mode, the tachometer automatically shifts to a linear graph with a color display that allows for a quick read allowing the driver to focus on the road.

The overall cabin design is contemporary and modular with improved driver amenities. The 8-inch infotainment touch screen takes precedence in the center stack and features the latest SUBARU STARLINK™ multimedia systems, including standard smartphone integration with Apple CarPlay™ and Android ™ Auto, as well as Bluetooth® hands-free phone connectivity and audio streaming, rear vision camera and SiriusXM® services. Limited trims feature telematics and vehicles equipped with the six-speed automatic transmission also feature Subaru’s EyeSight Driver Assist Technology.

In keeping with its sports car dynamics, the BRZ seating position is low, but features excellent sight lines due to use of high strength steel in the A, B and C -pillars, keeping them thin but strong. Deeply contoured bucket seats provide support and are enhanced with red detail stitching. The folding rear seats and spacious rear cargo area round out a comfortable and practical interior. 

Chassis

Featuring a bespoke chassis, the BRZ takes full advantage of its ultra-low center of gravity and high-strength body structure. With a 101.4-inch wheelbase and near perfect weight distribution, the 2022 Subaru BRZ is nimble and easy to control. The front suspension uses struts and coil springs to keep weight low. Using design elements from the Subaru Global Platform, the chassis has gained rigidity through a reinforced chassis mounting system, sub-frame architecture and other connection points. Front lateral bending rigidity has been increased by 60-percent for the 2022 model to improve turn-in and response. The front suspension features custom-designed MacPherson-type struts to optimize the low hood line while retaining a long stroke for ideal handling and ride quality. The double wishbone rear suspension system provides outstanding bump absorption to enhance tire grip over varied surfaces.

For track driving, the standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) traction and stability system offers the driver five different settings. The system has been redesigned to allow more input from the driver before it activates the traction system. The system can be turned completely off to put the driver in full control.

Production of the Subaru BRZ will be at Subaru’s Gunma, Japan assembly plant. The BRZ will go on sale early fall of 2021.

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Comments
View comments on the GRM forums
captainawesome
captainawesome HalfDork
11/18/20 10:51 a.m.

Anyone know when the gr86 version will be revealed? Either way, really glad to see the specs matching my expectations.

thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter)
thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/18/20 12:08 p.m.

Seems like Subaru solved the torque dip. This new engine makes more peak torque, and make it 2700(!) rpm sooner. I don't love how much Civic I see in the rear end, but it probably looks better in person. I'm still pleasantly surprised to see a second generation at all, let alone one that didn't gain any appreciable weight.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
11/18/20 1:36 p.m.

Looks like a C8 and the latest Civic Type R had a baby, and I mean that in the worst possible way. They've made this car homelier at every design change from the concept to this 2nd visual refresh of the production version.

10% more power with 20% more displacement seems wrong.

Right now I'm thinking the '17-'20 model is the most desirable all-around, I hope lots of people disagree with me so that the prices won't increase any further...

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/18/20 1:48 p.m.

Thank you Subaru for not berkeleying up a good thing, like most manufacturers tend to do. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/18/20 2:01 p.m.

So styling is Porsche on the front end, but you know.....the bad bits, and Civic in the back?

 

And still n/a? Seems kinda.....dumb

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
11/18/20 2:07 p.m.

I like this.  Any news on gearing?

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/18/20 2:10 p.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

So styling is Porsche on the front end, but you know.....the bad bits, and Civic in the back?

 

And still n/a? Seems kinda.....dumb

Not really. Adding a turbo, and the necessary stronger drivetrain components, wheels, tires, brakes, etc, to handle would probably add 150lbs or more to the car and drive the price into the upper-30 range. 

Thus negating "affordable" sports car. 

The only complaint I really ever had about my '15 BRZ was not the total power, but the tq dip right in the midrange. 

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
11/18/20 2:20 p.m.

I see more early aston martin vantage in the rear then civic. If they solved the torque dip and only added that little weight I think its going to be a hit again. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
11/18/20 2:21 p.m.
z31maniac said:

The only complaint I really ever had about my '15 BRZ was not the total power, but the tq dip right in the midrange. 

And this can be solved with headers and an ECU tune.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
11/18/20 2:37 p.m.
z31maniac said:

Not really. Adding a turbo, and the necessary stronger drivetrain components, wheels, tires, brakes, etc, to handle would probably add 150lbs or more to the car and drive the price into the upper-30 range. 

Thus negating "affordable" sports car. 

The only complaint I really ever had about my '15 BRZ was not the total power, but the tq dip right in the midrange. 

Using the 2.4L n/a was probably the cheapest way to get a bump in performance. I don't know if they're still using the Aisin AZ6 transmission in the new model, but Aisin rates the AZ6 transmission capable of accepting 184ftlbs (250Nm). According to the chart at the beginning of the thread, the 2.4L makes 184ftlbs.

I hated the torque dip in the first gen model too, but generally dislike other aspects of the engine too. It would have been interesting if they'd taken a smaller engine like the Toyota 1.6L 3-cyl turbo, limited it to 184ftlbs across the entire power band and made it rev and probably kept the weight similar. They could have sized the turbo for power at higher RPM. eg. 184ftlb at 8000rpm is 280hp. ;)

racerdave600
racerdave600 UltraDork
11/18/20 2:37 p.m.

As a former '15 BRZ owner, I like the new one.  I think it looks better inside and out.  I hope the interior materials are a bit better.

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
11/18/20 2:43 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

So styling is Porsche on the front end, but you know.....the bad bits, and Civic in the back?

 

And still n/a? Seems kinda.....dumb

Not really. Adding a turbo, and the necessary stronger drivetrain components, wheels, tires, brakes, etc, to handle would probably add 150lbs or more to the car and drive the price into the upper-30 range. 

Thus negating "affordable" sports car. 

The only complaint I really ever had about my '15 BRZ was not the total power, but the tq dip right in the midrange. 

I'm not exactly sure about that since they already have a turbo FA20 tooled up for the current wrx, at 270hp/260tq which isn't a huge step over 220/180 (and they always could have turned it down a bit). But going to that engine certainly changes the character of the vehicle quite a bit (see also the 718 cayman/boxster having a lot of mixed reviews because of the switch from n/a 6 to turbo 4). IMO, for a sports car n/a is the right answer, you just have to do it right. Which they didn't on the first one and look to have at least gotten a lot closer to this time.

docwyte
docwyte UberDork
11/18/20 2:45 p.m.

A whopping 20 more hp.  Meh.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/18/20 2:47 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:
z31maniac said:

The only complaint I really ever had about my '15 BRZ was not the total power, but the tq dip right in the midrange. 

And this can be solved with headers and an ECU tune.

I know, I had an E85 tune on my '15 BRZ with 300 miles on the odometer. 

I'm very familiar with the first gen cars. And this 2nd gen is basically a larger engine with the same basic architecture, with some aluminum body panels. 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
11/18/20 2:54 p.m.

I like that it exists. The styling is...ok. But it's not enough for me to want to get rid of my FR-S. 

boxedfox (Forum Supporter)
boxedfox (Forum Supporter) Reader
11/18/20 3:03 p.m.

Something about this reminds me of a Factory Five 818C. In a good way:

adam525i (Forum Supporter)
adam525i (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
11/18/20 3:16 p.m.

Looks great to me! Glad they are conintueing to make cars like these, hopefully they sell a bunch and the price on the first generation continues to fall.

There are lots of other cars with lots of power for people feeling like they need to compensate for something devil

mxandcx5
mxandcx5 New Reader
11/18/20 4:21 p.m.

Styling aside, it seems like a step in the right direction to me. Incremental improvements likely means only an incremental price increase as well! They kept everything that worked and I'm very glad to see it did not gain much in weight and size. It seems they addressed the torque dip and power concerns with the possibility it could see a bump in MPG over the first generation. Along with addressing the aged interior, overall it seems like a big win for enthusiasts and a strong DD contender.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
11/18/20 4:31 p.m.

I can't believe the styling is apparently polarizing. I think it looks fantastic, with the exception of the fuel door. I see F-type and RX-8 in the front and zupra and honda in the rear. It's one of the best looking things to come out in awhile. Have you guys seen what every new impreza since the GC looks like when it comes out? Subaru messes up styling better than anyone in the industry, and yet this is a home run. I just wish that I liked their flat fours. 

JamesMcD
JamesMcD SuperDork
11/18/20 5:01 p.m.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Agreed. I like the styling very much. They could have screwed it up with a bunch of fussy detailing, but it looks...normal. I want to see the industry swing back towards simpler surfaces and away from "look at the crazy shapes we can make with this software!." To my eye this thing is going in that direction.

350z247
350z247 New Reader
11/18/20 6:56 p.m.

I've just accepted that the BRZ will only ever be a great platform to build off of similar to the S-chassis before it. The curb weight is encouraging part. Pair that with a worthy engine from another chassis and about 10K in aftermarket suspension and brakes, and you'll have a very capable car for less than the price of a new Supra.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/18/20 7:10 p.m.

Looks like what an S16 Silvia might have looked like.  And it's more powerful than most Silvias ever were, and as light or lighter.  And it's brought to us... by a marriage of Subaru and Toyota.

 

Truly we are living in amazing times!

Subscriber-unavailabile
Subscriber-unavailabile HalfDork
11/18/20 7:17 p.m.

I've always loved the way they've looked but...

I got to drive my cousins 2016 brz spirited. At the time I had 2013 WRX. Only thing I liked better in brz was the transmission, as far as when mashed the throttle.. don't line next to a 97 Buick le Sabre 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/18/20 7:26 p.m.

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

Yeah, it won't do a burnout in 4th gear from idle.

 

I thought people wanted manual transmissions because they wanted to have to SHIFT for fun?  Heck, that torque dip was put there to keep people on their toes and heels, and everyone just bitches about it instead.

350z247
350z247 New Reader
11/18/20 8:14 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Shifting is only a piece of the sports car puzzle; a special engine is a far more important piece. A F20 or K20 would be far more inspiring at the same power level and with less torque. Power isn't necessarily the issue (although 300hp would be nice); the problem is Subaru hasn't been a good source for engines for over a decade. The FA20 is not a fun engine to wring out; it's frustrating. I'd rather Toyota ditch Subaru altogether and just throw a 2GR in it.

parker
parker Reader
11/18/20 8:33 p.m.
Subscriber-unavailabile said:

I've always loved the way they've looked but...

I got to drive my cousins 2016 brz spirited. At the time I had 2013 WRX. Only thing I liked better in brz was the transmission, as far as when mashed the throttle.. don't line next to a 97 Buick le Sabre 

Cracks me up when people say stuff like this.  When was the last time you were at a stoplight and traffic moved off faster than the speed of smell?  In 95,000 miles of driving the FR-S there hasn't been more than a couple of times that traffic wasn't holding me up.  Granted there are plenty of cars that accelerate faster than the 86 but the number of drivers that do so are nearly nonexistent.

spandak
spandak HalfDork
11/18/20 9:03 p.m.

This car is def not designed to win stop light drags and really that comparison misses the point of this car completely. The guy next to you is almost definitely faster, that doesn't make the BRZ slow it just points to the RIDICULOUS power levels modern cars are at. 
Like I said in the other thread, I think they nailed it. It's light and powerful relatively speaking and that's the point. Everyone is making fast, yawn, this is agile and light. The only other game in town (mainstream) is The Miata. Shame

Ill probably never buy one though. Finances on new cars don't make sense for me. I'll see myself out

Granet
Granet
11/18/20 11:15 p.m.

The spec seems good, but it looks like an elephant sat on a Cayenne. 

jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter)
jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter) Reader
11/19/20 4:06 a.m.

I don’t think the exterior  looks too bad, at least mostly handsome except a few angles.  I feel like it’ll grow on me, especially if it were an inch lower.  Maybe in black paint to play down the fussiness of the ductwork in the front fascia.  

But what I can’t get over is the dashboard; it looks like a dog’s breakfast! When plastic looks that cheap in the marketing photos, it doesn’t usually get better in person.  Nope nope nope. I’ll take the Civic...

vsquaredbyrho
vsquaredbyrho New Reader
11/19/20 7:15 a.m.

The universal advice for the first generation was:

  1. Get better tires.
  2. Tune for E-85 or get exhaust headers to add a bit of power and flatten the torque dip.

Subaru did both of these. Bravo. If the price stays under $30k, it's a great second generation.

I irrationally hope the Toyota version gets electrified so we have an option for an affordable, agile, fun sports car.

Edit: Add to the list "3. Oil cooler needed for track work." Also now part of the 2022 model.

Carsandbikes
Carsandbikes Reader
11/19/20 7:23 a.m.

Not a bad looking car, imho.  The outgoing car, I always felt, looked like they went a half step too far in trying to make it look inoffensive.

You do have to appreciate, that given the level of sales, that Subaru and Toyota are providing a 2nd generation.

As the owner of a "vintage" 6 cylinder powered Mustang (coincidentally with 205 horsepower) I can somewhat understand the CONTINUED gripes about power.  Yet, at the same time, as the owner of a Mustang, I don't really see much need for 300-400 horsepower in today's traffic.

Finally, lately, the most important engine "spec" I look at anymore is the TYPE of injection...not mentioned in this write-up.   I know some/most?/all? Toyota engines are switching to Direct and Port Injection combined, any word on how this iteration of a Subaru engine is injected?

350z247
350z247 New Reader
11/19/20 7:53 a.m.

In reply to Carsandbikes :

No, you don't need 400hp in traffic, but there are certainly times and places when you can use that power. The same argument could be applied to big brakes, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, LSDs, oil coolers, or any number of other performance upgrades. You don't need them until you hit the track or canyon, but they're the reason you buy a sports car to begin with. It would be less annoying if Toyota didn't already have a better engine in their lineup in the 2GR V6.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter)
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/19/20 8:01 a.m.

I tend to think in terms of moving from my Fiesta ST. The looks are way better, but I sacrifice the ability to put everything inside. A tire trailer solves that and keeps the interior clean, so that's OK. I generally don't drive people around, so I wouldn't miss the extra doors.

The handling would probably be an upgrade, especially with decent tires. I mean, its 2 feet lower right? I have seen the old BRZ do amazing things just in SSC class, so it is more than my ability can exploit. Ill call that an upgrade. 

The interior on the old one was pretty crap, and coming from a Fiesta that is saying something. This one is an upgrade for sure, and it feels like a true sports car, not a hopped-up economy car, so that's a win. A big win for a 4th, fun car.

But without a turbo, I can't turn up the power like I did on the FiST. This thing will never have the mid-range pull that the FiST does. Jumping from 70 to 100+ on the highway is fun. 2nd gear pulls are fun. On ramps are fun. Even with more torque, it is still 1/2 what I have at the wheels. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/19/20 8:01 a.m.
Carsandbikes said:

Not a bad looking car, imho.  The outgoing car, I always felt, looked like they went a half step too far in trying to make it look inoffensive.

You do have to appreciate, that given the level of sales, that Subaru and Toyota are providing a 2nd generation.

As the owner of a "vintage" 6 cylinder powered Mustang (coincidentally with 205 horsepower) I can somewhat understand the CONTINUED gripes about power.  Yet, at the same time, as the owner of a Mustang, I don't really see much need for 300-400 horsepower in today's traffic.

Finally, lately, the most important engine "spec" I look at anymore is the TYPE of injection...not mentioned in this write-up.   I know some/most?/all? Toyota engines are switching to Direct and Port Injection combined, any word on how this iteration of a Subaru engine is injected?

Yes, it's port and direct injected like the FA20. And I assume it will have tons of overhead in the fuel system like the last one. 

The first gen BRZ could support ~280whp on the stock fuel system.

Subscriber-unavailabile
Subscriber-unavailabile HalfDork
11/19/20 8:35 a.m.

In reply to parker :

I'm biased, but if I'm spending $30k for a brand new sports car I want the mofo to move like a sports car, not just in the corners.  Imo brz is like a Miata, great car to drive but begs for more powa 

350z247
350z247 New Reader
11/19/20 8:46 a.m.

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

Perfectly put

infernosg
infernosg New Reader
11/19/20 9:18 a.m.

I like it. If I were in the market for a new RWD sports car this would be at or near the top of my list. It's a slightly bigger, more powerful, hardtop version of THE ANSWER.

parker
parker Reader
11/19/20 10:02 a.m.

In reply to Subscriber-unavailabile :

No, you want a muscle car.  Coming from sports cars: MGs, Triumphs, 914s, Miatas, etc. the 86 is leaps and bounds faster.  I've owned cars that were certainly much faster than the 86 but nowhere near as enjoyable to drive.  

350z247
350z247 New Reader
11/19/20 10:14 a.m.

In reply to parker :

Competent levels of power do not instantly put something in the muscle car category. The Cayman S, 370Z, 350Z, and Corvette are all sports cars that have had over 300hp for over a decade now. The S2000 and RX8 had this much power 20 years ago. Yes, the BRZ is faster than cars from the 70s and 80s, but it just doesn't make sense to buy a $30K sports car that wouldn't be considered powerful 15 years ago.

spandak
spandak HalfDork
11/19/20 10:34 a.m.

In reply to 350z247 :

All of those cars are in a different category either in price or weight. 
Watch Chris Harris' video on the first gen comparing it to the 370z and a used Cayman. He explains the point well. 
For the price point it sits where it should. If you want more power you can get it but you have to spend more or add on weight, likely both. 
Also those options exist already, if a buyer wants power they should just go buy something else. This car isn't built for the person looking at the spec sheet. 

BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter)
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/19/20 10:43 a.m.

Well it makes enough sense to enough people that it’s continuing production into a second generation.

I’m glad it exists as it does.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/19/20 10:45 a.m.
350z247 said:

In reply to parker :

Competent levels of power do not instantly put something in the muscle car category. The Cayman S, 370Z, 350Z, and Corvette are all sports cars that have had over 300hp for over a decade now. The S2000 and RX8 had this much power 20 years ago. Yes, the BRZ is faster than cars from the 70s and 80s, but it just doesn't make sense to buy a $30K sports car that wouldn't be considered powerful 15 years ago.

No, it doesn't make sense to YOU. And that's ok, we all have different tastes. But the comments about not having enough power is laughable to someone like me, who used to track sport bikes. 

I've had big power/fast cars........and they are fun in their own way. 

350z247
350z247 New Reader
11/19/20 11:03 a.m.

In reply to spandak :

Yes, those cars are heavier and more expensive, but they don't have to be. Mazda could put a more powerful engine in the Miata, but they choose not to. This BRZ with Toyotas 2GR would be a great little sports car, essentially a more practical Lotus Evora.

As for the sports bikes, there are sport bikes that have the same power as a first gen BRZ while weighing over 2000 pounds less. The power/weight ratio there is off the charts.

JAdams
JAdams New Reader
11/19/20 11:50 a.m.

I love the direction they are headed and I will consider this as a next car. I'm in the camp of agreeing with the user above, "It's a slightly bigger, more powerful, hardtop version of THE ANSWER."

 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
11/19/20 11:51 a.m.

I think there's a balance of important fun car attributes and I think power is less important than it was in the past.

I think one of the differences between the BRZ and the Miata is that the Miata is featherweight, 500lbs less. The BRZ certainly isn't heavy, but compare it to say the RX-8 and S2k, it's basically the same. Even if it added 100lbs, the BRZ would probably be better with another 50hp.

BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter)
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/19/20 12:21 p.m.

BRZ also has a back seat, kind of. So that further differentiates it from the MX-5.

pheller
pheller UltimaDork
11/19/20 12:45 p.m.

I'd be curious to see if there is any improvement in fuel efficiency. 

Furious_E (Forum Supporter)
Furious_E (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/19/20 12:59 p.m.

Different strokes for different folks. There is already a car out there that addresses nearly every perceived shortcoming, but none are without penalty, whether it be weight, price, or practicality. The BRZ has its niche and has apparently found enough of a market to warrant a second generation.

They're great little sports cars and I'd encourage anyone to give one a drive before dismissing them. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised or maybe you'll find you really would like an extra hundred hp.
 

But this car knows what it wants to be and fills that role well.

Vracer111
Vracer111 HalfDork
11/19/20 1:36 p.m.

I like the mechanical updates... styling change however is not my thing at all, looks like a bad bodykit. Much prefer 1st Gen styling wise (both exterior and nterior). A rocket bunny kit might actually improve looks of a 2nd Gen... Reminds me of Mitsubishi Eclipse change from first gen to second gen...though 2nd gen eclipse was more of a stying departure compared to 2nd gen BRZ. Would much rather buy a used 1st gen and swap in a different motor... but I have no desire to get another FR-S since getting the MR2.

BRZ went from sexier than a miata to much less sexier.

Gen 1, sexy styling that flows beautifully together....

Gen 2, not so sexy styling that is rather disjointed with a widebody kit appearance...

 

vsquaredbyrho
vsquaredbyrho New Reader
11/19/20 2:23 p.m.
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) said:

BRZ also has a back seat, kind of. So that further differentiates it from the MX-5.

This makes a big difference for people like me who have one child to drive around. A small back seat makes the car much more practical than a Miata. Although the kid exiting the back seat by themselves now requires some contortions. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/19/20 4:13 p.m.
350z247 said:

In reply to Carsandbikes :

No, you don't need 400hp in traffic, but there are certainly times and places when you can use that power. The same argument could be applied to big brakes, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, LSDs, oil coolers, or any number of other performance upgrades. You don't need them until you hit the track or canyon, but they're the reason you buy a sports car to begin with. It would be less annoying if Toyota didn't already have a better engine in their lineup in the 2GR V6.

The hoodline would have to be a higher to clear the taller engine, so the beltline would be higher, so the roofline would be higher, and you end up with a rear drive Rav4.  One of the refreshing things about the Frisbee twins is how large they aren't.

 

Or you can just make the whole car bigger to keep the proportions right, and end up with another IS250.

 

You might be able to cram the engine under the existing hoodline, but then it wouldn't pass pedestrian collisiom standards.

BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter)
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/19/20 4:28 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
350z247 said:

In reply to Carsandbikes :

No, you don't need 400hp in traffic, but there are certainly times and places when you can use that power. The same argument could be applied to big brakes, tight suspensions, manual transmissions, LSDs, oil coolers, or any number of other performance upgrades. You don't need them until you hit the track or canyon, but they're the reason you buy a sports car to begin with. It would be less annoying if Toyota didn't already have a better engine in their lineup in the 2GR V6.

The hoodline would have to be a higher to clear the taller engine, so the beltline would be higher, so the roofline would be higher, and you end up with a rear drive Rav4.  One of the refreshing things about the Frisbee twins is how large they aren't.

 

Or you can just make the whole car bigger to keep the proportions right, and end up with another IS250.

 

You might be able to cram the engine under the existing hoodline, but then it wouldn't pass pedestrian collisiom standards.

Yeah, no way would this car be as small and light as it is if it were designed to house a more powerful engine under the hood.

Vracer111
Vracer111 HalfDork
11/19/20 7:25 p.m.

There's a drop-in high revving 3.0L V8 motor solution for BRZ/GT86s that is smaller, lighter, and lower CG than the stock motor... 500+hp and ~240ftlb...

Just costs several times the price of the car and needs rebuilds about ever 30k miles or so...

 

tremm
tremm Reader
11/19/20 8:03 p.m.

I saw crossfire/350z in the front end, and after seeing the rear I see more crossfire :/

bigdaddylee82
bigdaddylee82 UberDork
11/19/20 8:09 p.m.

I tried to like the original BRZ/FRS, the pre release hype got me, I was on board, even remember the very first one I saw in the wild.

Then, when they were "real," and available, the magic was gone.  I don't know what happened, maybe I read too many of the detractors complaints.

Neither the original nor this one have any appeal to me.  Maybe I'm broken.

The 1st gen does look better than the new one.  I don't get the Porsche references, the new one's front end looks like someone put parentheses on the sides of a 2nd gen Mazda 3.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/19/20 8:12 p.m.

In reply to bigdaddylee82 :

Oh, I think both generations are butt ugly.  But the fact that there even exists in 2020 a sub 3000lb, rear drive 2+2, with a decent four cylinder and not some turbo or large-displacement abomination, is in my opinion something to be applauded.

 

(you listening Mazda?  You could be here if you'd make a fixed roof Miata.  Hell, call it the MX-7)

rwdsport
rwdsport Reader
11/19/20 11:37 p.m.

Wow what a stunner. I was an early adopter of the toyobaru 2013 and ended up selling it to buy my first property. It was a gift to myself after graduating engineering. I was going to sharpen it slightly for trackdays and autox. None of that happened but I still took it out for a couple runs around the cones and used it for some coaching at our local track with just pads. After taking the FRS out back to back with a students lightly modified e90 m3, I appreciated my little sports car even more. Much more fun driving experience at the limit. 

This looks to have improved in every way. Gorgeous and clean styling, I see some Cayman and supra up front and don't mind the rear. Seems most of the cockpit carried over, looks very familiar. Still one of the roomiest and most driver centric cockpits I have sat in, at 6'2" and I could fit with a helmet. 
 

I love that they kept it N/A, I love that peak torque is much lower now and weight gain is minimal. The only complaint I had with mine was the sound of the motor after coming from the k20 Si, hopefully this one sounds a bit better. I typically don't care for new cars but a modern, basic, rwd, standard and lightweight sports car? Keep em coming. This is the anti tesla, for those who still enjoy an engaging drive. I genuinely hope it does well. 

 

PS: Cheap, Lightweight, Power. Pick two. That's how this works. 

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
11/20/20 9:07 a.m.

Overall I like the new car. Torque comes in sooner and more of it! I like the N/A but would not object to a turbo option. As for power lvl this should be fine. I DD a 200hp /225lbs car that weighs 3300 lbs and it's fine short of a race track. Just hope that 6th gear is fairly tall for relaxed hiway cruising. (The extra torque will help here). 

Interior looks good to me. Info screen is low in the dash, not sticking out the top like an after thought. Good. Would be nice to ditch the screen for a plain old radio because i struggle with tech.

spandak
spandak HalfDork
11/20/20 12:06 p.m.

In reply to 350z247 :

Because the cost would go up and the weight would go up. 
I sat in a presentation 10ft from Dave Coleman and listened to him explain the incredible lengths they want to to lighten that car. NO ONE does that anymore. Look at BMW, more power, bigger, heavier, faster, every generation. Who. Cares. They become even more irrelevant as time goes on. 
Maybe I'm just a grumpy Gus but I think cars are their best when I feel like I'm actually working them. I'm not talented by any means but there is nowhere in the real world where 400hp can be used continuously. Shoot, in the twisties around here I can 2x-3x the speed limit with 220hp and that's scary enough. I would much rather have a car that I can use and that rewards me for being used. (Lightweight, moderate power, excellent dynamics)
I practice what I preach here, I sold my MS3 for a base Boxster and my FZ6 for 40 year old Moto Guzzi. I don't have a hint of regret for either decision. 
 

Edit: manufacturers have to build cars under increasingly strict guidelines. The aftermarket can shove whatever they want under that hood because they don't have to meet pedestrian crash standards. Have you noticed how every new front engined at has a wall for a grill? Regulations. Only exotics get away with low hood lines because the engine usually sits in the back somewhere. 
Also my modern Subaru engine experience has been totally acceptable. Zero issues in 40k. The noise is...meh but it works. I'm not sure I follow the concerns about that enginr

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/20/20 1:09 p.m.
spandak said:

In reply to 350z247 :

Because the cost would go up and the weight would go up. 
I sat in a presentation 10ft from Dave Coleman and listened to him explain the incredible lengths they want to to lighten that car. NO ONE does that anymore. Look at BMW, more power, bigger, heavier, faster, every generation. Who. Cares. They become even more irrelevant as time goes on. 
Maybe I'm just a grumpy Gus but I think cars are their best when I feel like I'm actually working them. I'm not talented by any means but there is nowhere in the real world where 400hp can be used continuously. Shoot, in the twisties around here I can 2x-3x the speed limit with 220hp and that's scary enough. I would much rather have a car that I can use and that rewards me for being used. (Lightweight, moderate power, excellent dynamics)
I practice what I preach here, I sold my MS3 for a base Boxster and my FZ6 for 40 year old Moto Guzzi. I don't have a hint of regret for either decision. 
 

Edit: manufacturers have to build cars under increasingly strict guidelines. The aftermarket can shove whatever they want under that hood because they don't have to meet pedestrian crash standards. Have you noticed how every new front engined at has a wall for a grill? Regulations. Only exotics get away with low hood lines because the engine usually sits in the back somewhere. 
Also my modern Subaru engine experience has been totally acceptable. Zero issues in 40k. The noise is...meh but it works. I'm not sure I follow the concerns about that enginr

Yep. I think I said as much in this thread or the one I started. Plus, if you want a BRZ with a bunch of power, buy a first gen and slap some forced induction on it. Just be sure to have a spare block ready to go in once a rod breaks and ventilates the block or eats the #4 rod bearing.

It's not the point of the car and there are plenty of cars to buy if you need to turn your rear tires into smoke.

 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
11/20/20 2:28 p.m.

Some of the car mags have published ride along impressions which sound pretty positive. The more I see the car, the more I like it.

spandak said:

I sat in a presentation 10ft from Dave Coleman and listened to him explain the incredible lengths they want to to lighten that car. NO ONE does that anymore.

Edit: manufacturers have to build cars under increasingly strict guidelines. The aftermarket can shove whatever they want under that hood because they don't have to meet pedestrian crash standards. Have you noticed how every new front engined at has a wall for a grill? Regulations. Only exotics get away with low hood lines because the engine usually sits in the back somewhere. 

With the ND, Mazda undercut the weight of the carbon fiber chassis Alpha 4C, so yeah, they did impressive things. The ND also has top notch pedestrian crash standards without ruining the look of the car. I also have to imagine better aerodynamics are possible when the front end shape doesn't have to resemble a brick.

Kiwi gov't crash test/safety group comments:

“Not only has the MX-5 performed well in each of the impact tests, this is the highest pedestrian protection score we have seen for any vehicle to date,” he said.

The MX-5 has an active, or ‘pop-up’, bonnet which is designed to provide extra clearance between a pedestrian’s head and the vehicle’s stiff components beneath. https://www.ancap.com.au/media-and-gallery/releases/a-safety-high-five-for-popular-sports-car-mazda-mx-5

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/20/20 9:16 p.m.

I love it; looks good, low weight, adequate engine output, and will certainly handle well. If I want to lose my license there's no lack of options, so IMO every affordable, lightweight sports car should be celebrated.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
11/20/20 10:10 p.m.

Subie and 'Yota also know what they're doing with the twins; I actually really like the look of it. The rear makes me think of the 5th Gen Supra. Some odd notes:

  • There will never be a turbo version from the factory. Not only would doing so make the twins competing with things like the Camaro and Mustangs, but it's because the twins are essentially "entry" level sports cars and are placed at that price point for a reason. You don't want to scare off a potential owner with something too fast or too expensive.
  • The second reason is what we're doing here- discussing how we'd modify it. You think they DIDN'T think such an aftermarket of modders would crop up? They are very good at predicting things like this.
  • I wonder if swapping it to E85 will have the same power gains.
  • I too, hope there'd be an all-electric version though that's a pie-in-the-sky idea.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
11/20/20 10:22 p.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Honestly, with the compression bump I expect E85 to yield potentially larger gains. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/21/20 12:11 p.m.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Exactly, up a point to 13.5:1

The previous gen picked up 15-20whp on E85 alone.

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) UberDork
11/22/20 4:45 p.m.

After seeing pics all over the place, and different colors, I'm going to retract my statement about the looks. I think it looks great. Probably never buy one, but I'll look. 

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
11/22/20 11:42 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

That's what will make this hard for myself, personally. If an E85 tune is as easily done as the 1st gen and yields similar gains- at 2800 lbs- I'd be hard to choose a different vehicle.

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
11/23/20 8:02 a.m.
barefootskater (Shaun) said:

After seeing pics all over the place, and different colors, I'm going to retract my statement about the looks. I think it looks great. Probably never buy one, but I'll look. 

I'm still not seeing it  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I like the rear a lot better on the current car, and the new front end just looks weak.  I'm hoping that aftermarket bumpers can fix it.  My overall take is... at least it's not as ugly as the Supra!

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/23/20 8:17 a.m.
GIRTHQUAKE said:

In reply to z31maniac :

That's what will make this hard for myself, personally. If an E85 tune is as easily done as the 1st gen and yields similar gains- at 2800 lbs- I'd be hard to choose a different vehicle.

The only thing that is likely to make it difficult for me is about the time it goes on sale they are supposed to be announcing the specs and release pics of the next-gen STi to go on sale in 2022. 

If it has the rumored 400 hp and looks awesome, I might bite the bullet since I've always wanted a boost buggy.

I almost bought an EVO X back in 2012 (when I got my Mustang GT Track pack instead) but at the time, Mitsubishi didn't have a dealer in Tulsa. 

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