Meet the Ferret

Posted by Ed Higginbotham July 25, 2016, 9:56 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/gX8AaQcuCJY
It shoots a grappling hook and can tackle most any terrain. Toyo Tires calls this thing “the Ferret,” and we really want a turn behind the wheel.
Show comments
T.J.
T.J. UltimaDork
July 25, 2016 10:27 a.m.

That thing is interesting. Looks like fun. I am so glad this thread is not about smelly rodents. The grappling hook is a little over the top, but works as an attention getter.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
July 25, 2016 10:28 a.m.

Know where you can drive that thing?

Anywhere you'd like.

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
July 25, 2016 10:55 a.m.

The Brits started making something called the Ferret in 1952. Street legal in California!

LA traffic, Pssshhhhttt, watch this.

kb58
kb58 Dork
July 25, 2016 11:06 a.m.

I've seen one just like that driving around SoCal. I bet they get really really terrible mileage.

chuckles
chuckles HalfDork
July 25, 2016 12:12 p.m.

What caliber is the cannon?

Robbie
Robbie UltraDork
July 25, 2016 12:29 p.m.

I'm very surprised by two things:

  1. that the grappling hook can support the weight of that vehicle in a winching situation
  2. that whatever tree branch they caught could support the weight of that vehicle

At least they drove it though an impressively deep river that my ford focus might not have been able to navigate.

Does look fun though.

Grtechguy
Grtechguy MegaDork
July 25, 2016 12:40 p.m.

Baja?

dculberson
dculberson PowerDork
July 25, 2016 12:48 p.m.

In reply to 914Driver:

I'm pretty sure that is a Ferret that they've customized. Hence them calling it a Ferret. ;)

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
July 25, 2016 1:32 p.m.

I honestly thought a Ferret had four wheels; are the two in the middle spares or are they rollers for logs and such?

EvanB
EvanB UltimaDork
July 25, 2016 1:37 p.m.
914Driver wrote: I honestly thought a Ferret had four wheels; are the two in the middle spares or are they rollers for logs and such?

Both?

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
July 25, 2016 2:54 p.m.

Top speed of 58mph... That one sounds... A bit faster

I mean

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
July 25, 2016 3:01 p.m.

It kinda sounds like a trophy truck wearing a Ferret as a hat.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
July 25, 2016 4:45 p.m.

I had a Ferret in college.

His name was George. Miss you buddy.

daeman
daeman HalfDork
July 25, 2016 5:31 p.m.

The rolls Royce engine in those ferrets sounds so sweet.

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro PowerDork
July 25, 2016 7:52 p.m.

The Canadian military used Ferrets. There's a couple privately owned ones in this province.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo MegaDork
July 25, 2016 8:35 p.m.
chuckles wrote: What caliber is the cannon?

I didn't know grappling hooks were gauged in calibers.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
July 26, 2016 9:21 a.m.
N Sperlo wrote:
chuckles wrote: What caliber is the cannon?

I didn't know grappling hooks were gauged in calibers.

Sounds air-powered to me

wspohn
wspohn HalfDork
July 26, 2016 11:24 a.m.

"The Canadian military used Ferrets. There's a couple privately owned ones in this province."

A friend has a couple of them. Had to remove or disable the gun to get it street legal. Even with the gun mounted, it would probably fit right into traffic in many large American cities.....

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
July 26, 2016 11:27 a.m.

One of the guys in the Ottawa Valley Land Rover club owns one with the gun mounted. He got on the news when he drove it on Parliament Hill years ago. Fully legal and on an open public road, but you know how Mounties can get.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/armoured-car-invades-parliament-hill-1.186569

DrBoost
DrBoost UltimaDork
July 26, 2016 12:29 p.m.

Meh.
I didn't see it do anything my last CJ couldn't do, with the exception of firing a grappling hook out of a cannon. I suppose that hook can also deploy a tree-saver?
The spare tire use is a cool idea for certain situations, but not all.
I'll admit that CJ couldn't have done most of that stuff at the same speed, but our Odyssey can ford the same depth as the ferret

M2Pilot
M2Pilot HalfDork
July 26, 2016 1:51 p.m.
914Driver wrote: The Brits started making something called the Ferret in 1952. Street legal in California! LA traffic, Pssshhhhttt, watch this.

There's one of these at the tank museum in Danville, VA. I'm taking the grandsons there Saturday. Interior of these is tiny. Drivers & crew of Ferrets must've been smaller than submariners.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
July 26, 2016 2:28 p.m.
dculberson wrote: In reply to 914Driver: I'm pretty sure that is a Ferret that they've customized. Hence them calling it a Ferret. ;)

Looks to me like a custom tube-framed vehicle with a faux gun on top, visually inspired by the Ferret.

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Go Big or Go Home: Big Trucks Invade Goodwood

Posted by David S. Wallens July 13, 2016, 9:56 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/rcP5b_DdwiQ
Before attacking the hill at Goodwood, the Kamaz Dakar team drove their 11-ton Kamaz-4326 truck 2755 miles from their Russian HQ to the event.
Show comments
edizzle89
July 13, 2016 11:19 a.m.

dont discount this truck just doing a 'parade lap' on the hill either, they tore there way up that hill

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
July 13, 2016 11:28 a.m.

Yep, they made all sorts of noise. Plus, according to Red Bull, the truck drove to the event from its Russia base.

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Compact Battle: Mini Cooper Vs Honda Fit at Road America

Posted by Ed Higginbotham July 5, 2016, 10:42 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/jKD4k1EAL-s
Our friend Patrick Wilmot is is working on his pro racing career in the Pirelli World Challenge. The driver of this yellow Honda Fit is not helping him a bit.
Show comments
T.J.
T.J. UltimaDork
July 5, 2016 11:30 a.m.

Looks like Patrick Wilmot needs some more straightline speed if he keeps getting passed by a Fit that looks like it is being driven by me in gran turismo 6. I was glad to see that nobody was taken out as a result from some of those slides.

rob_lewis
rob_lewis SuperDork
July 5, 2016 12:59 p.m.

That's a hard one to determine who would really help who. If the Fit got behind the MINI, he'd have to really back off and keep from running him over. When the turn comes up, since the MINI corners MUCH better, the Fit would quickly get left. If the MINI slots in behind, he might be able to keep up with the Fit on the straights, but would, again, destroy him in the turns and leave him standing.

If I was the Fit driver, I don't know that I would have pushed the MINI down the straights for fear of watching him pull away from me.

-Rob

Robbie
Robbie UltraDork
July 5, 2016 1:07 p.m.

That's a funny video, though I can not say I wouldn't have been frusturated driving the mini.

I think we CAN say it has a power or aero disadvantage VS the fit (and also that mazda2).

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk UberDork
July 5, 2016 1:21 p.m.

He keeps signalling the Fit driver to bump draft from behind, yet the Fit can readily pass on any straight. Forget that and go get the MINI engine rebuilt with a longer stroke

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Associate Editor
July 5, 2016 1:22 p.m.

In reply to rob_lewis:

No doubt. I don't blame the Fit driver for overtaking on the straights. You've got to use your strengths. but what he does in the corners kind of negates that advantage. Might have served both of them better to keep in line. But that's all conjecture.

And for the record, Patrick is a VERY fast driver. I drove on a team with him in Endurance Karting's 24 Hours of America—yes, 24 hours of karting is as painful as it sounds—and largely thanks to Pat and one other driver we won our class by 7 laps.

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk UberDork
July 5, 2016 1:26 p.m.

At one point in time I had thought about building an ITB MINI Cooper to run at Waterford Hills. There aren't many straight bits at Waterford, it might just work out well.

Trackmouse
July 5, 2016 1:34 p.m.

That video there makes Honda fit ownership bearable. How is a fit passing a mini? Are the minis detuned?

pointofdeparture
July 5, 2016 1:57 p.m.

In reply to Trackmouse:

All the cars are prepped to a similar level (B-spec class), but the Cooper only makes 120hp IIRC and is heavier than the Fit which isn't far off at 117. Gearing could have a lot to do with it too.

C&D drove a bunch of the B-spec cars when the class was more of a proposal than an actual thing, and it seems like a great way to go pro racing for relatively cheap.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/b-spec-racers-honda-fit-vs-kia-rio5-mazda-2-mini-cooper-hatchback-comparison-tests

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
July 5, 2016 2:02 p.m.

I can't even get my brain around that.

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A Very Fast Autocross Course in our Project Mustang GT

Posted by Ed Higginbotham June 16, 2016, 2:15 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/clYCxx_elDg
We had some fun with the Martin Sports Car Club at the Florida International Rally & Motorsport Park this past weekend in our project 2012 Mustang GT. Special thanks to CorteX Racing, Steeda Autosports, BFGoodrich Tires, Motion Control Suspension, SCT Performance, MRT and Forgeline.
Show comments
iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
June 16, 2016 6:30 p.m.

Now that is the kind of autocross course I like.

No getting lost in a sea of cones in a tiny parking lot.

fasted58
fasted58 UltimaDork
June 16, 2016 6:36 p.m.
iceracer wrote: Now that is the kind of autocross course I like. No getting lost in a sea of cones in a tiny parking lot.

Reminiscent of road course, if they did that around here I'd be in but otherwise cones ain't my bag.

Nice Mustang build too.

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
June 16, 2016 7:31 p.m.

Nice run! And nice course...

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
June 16, 2016 7:52 p.m.

Ahhh, too bad we couldn't hear the engine after the first few seconds!

Woody
Woody MegaDork
June 16, 2016 8:16 p.m.

That's a nice course. I'd stand in the sun all day for that.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
June 16, 2016 8:33 p.m.

That is the first autocross course I can imagine getting myself through without getting lost. "Cone blind" is every bit as much of a reality as color blind.

That said, the odd time I do hit the autocross, I love doing monster spin-outs and murdering cones without having to go to jail, so it is still money well spent. Apologies to the cone chasers when I run.

Spoolpigeon
Spoolpigeon UberDork
June 16, 2016 8:50 p.m.

What an awesome venue!

The moving camera mount totally messes with my head though.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
June 16, 2016 11:01 p.m.
z31maniac wrote: Ahhh, too bad we couldn't hear the engine after the first few seconds!

Yeah, I gotta get a sock for it or put it inside or something. View is great from up there, though, and it's easy to reach. Sounds like crap once you;re moving, though. I'll figure something out. That car deserves to be heard.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
June 16, 2016 11:03 p.m.
Spoolpigeon wrote: What an awesome venue! The moving camera mount totally messes with my head though.

Mount is actually fixed. That's just the image stabilization trying to keep up with vibration and various forces. Looks like the whole thing is gimbal mounted, doesn't it? I really like the Garmin VIRB for a lot of reasons, but it does have a few downsides. The GPS is terrible for autocross type stuff. It's laggy, and can't resolve such sudden speed changes and direction changes well enough. On a road course it's MUC better, but in the tight confines of an autocross it's a bit overwhelmed.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
June 17, 2016 7:43 a.m.

Reminds me of the Challenge course in 2003 and 2004. Made me pucker a few times.

bentwrench
June 17, 2016 8:08 a.m.

Like the ford commercial, the microphone needs to be positioned next to the exhaust....

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Onboard a Bright Green Rocket Ship

Posted by Ed Higginbotham May 25, 2016, 3:48 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iu2nsXx8bAc
Dan Raver piloted this Superlite Coupe to fourth place overall at the 2016 Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge.
Show comments
motomoron
motomoron SuperDork
May 25, 2016 6:22 p.m.

It's surprising how much lower corner speeds are for that car than a sports racer (like the P1 Stohr that got the overall)

My best time at VIR a couple weeks ago was a 1'59" and I had to stay flat through 3 and was in 6th at the bottom of the climbing esses and was often flat through 10. Oh to have an extra few hundred ft/lbs.

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How's Your Heel-Toe?

Posted by Ed Higginbotham May 9, 2016, 2:28 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/kNoUlA_vNGA
Jeff Westphal piloted the Professional Awesome Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution to a 13th overall finish at last year’s Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge. But if style and smoothness points were factored in, they might have finished higher.
The 2016 Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge will be held on May 20 and Virginia International Raceway. Come on out and watch or drive!
Show comments
Klayfish
Klayfish UberDork
May 9, 2016 3:03 p.m.

I don't know how to heel-toe. I really need to learn. It kills me from having decent lap times.

Robbie
Robbie SuperDork
May 9, 2016 3:14 p.m.
Klayfish wrote: I don't know how to heel-toe. I really need to learn. It kills me from having decent lap times.

Don't just heel toe - double clutch.

I could never really get the hang of it until I read somewhere to "think about it as two separate shifts" (shift 3rd to neutral, blip throttle, then shift neutral to 2nd - for example). Since it makes sense to your legs to roll on the throttle as you release the clutch pedal, the blipping becomes much easier, and thinking about it as two shifts ensures the timing and order of everything is correct. Then you just have to remember to keep your foot on the brake the whole time.

JBasham
JBasham New Reader
May 9, 2016 3:23 p.m.

I'm taking it from the street to the track this summer. It is taking me a while to move it from brain-involved activity to muscle memory, but it gets better every session.

The best tip I have gotten for this stage of the process is, do the shift a little earlier before the turn than you otherwise would. It lets me get my full brain capacity back in time to still look through the apex and judge my entry speed.

Re: Jeff's entry into the climbing esses at 140mph shows the kind of commitment I doubt I will ever have. Damn.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
May 9, 2016 3:23 p.m.

I'm I the only one that Toe Heel? ie I reach over with my gorilla toes to stab at the accelerator.

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Associate Editor
May 9, 2016 3:26 p.m.

In reply to RossD:

You might be. That seems like it would be a whole lot more difficult.

Desmond
Desmond HalfDork
May 9, 2016 3:29 p.m.

It depends on the car. My E36 with the floor mounted gas pedal was easier to heel toe using the "rock the foot sideways onto the pedal" method, where you kind of jab with your pinky toe.

Most japanese cars I've driven lend themselves better to the pivoting the ball of the foot to rotate the heel into the pedal method. Like I have to drive the miata this way. If I do the BMW method, my foot doesnt reach.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
May 9, 2016 3:30 p.m.
RossD wrote: I'm I the only one that Toe Heel? ie I reach over with my gorilla toes to stab at the accelerator.

With some cars this is easier, I do it with my Samurai w/ stock pedals but I heel-and-toe in the Corolla (with oversized pedals...otherwise I'd need to wear clown shoes to hit two pedals at once)

I'm convinced that with anything but a BMW-style ultra-long gas pedal (which it looks like the car in this video has), only contortionists actually heel-and-toe, it's more like side-of-foot-and-toe.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
May 9, 2016 3:37 p.m.

Relevant video: Behold the king of fancy footwork:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/yyVHj3sHVHQ

Desmond
Desmond HalfDork
May 9, 2016 3:41 p.m.
OldGray320i
OldGray320i HalfDork
May 9, 2016 3:42 p.m.

Good lord, the people running out of the way of the speeding rally car freaked me out a little...

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
May 9, 2016 3:45 p.m.

In reply to OldGray320i:

I saw a video of one of the drivers saying something like he couldn't even see them as people because it would have slowed him down. Just another rock/bush/tree.

Trackmouse
May 9, 2016 3:51 p.m.

You can set you pedals up correctly to help. Your brake pedal depressed should match height of the gas pedal. That way your foot is in an even surface.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
May 9, 2016 3:58 p.m.

I use the side of my foot. The E46 is set up for it beautifully - I do it on pretty much every downshift - and so was my old Neon ACR. But between the crappy pedal placement and the light flywheel, I just don't have it down pat for the Manic Miata.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
May 9, 2016 4:31 p.m.

I had a dodgy 2nd gear synchro in one of my track cars, so it taught me to double-clutch. I've never lost the habit, you can hear it in my track videos even on the V8 Miata. I rev-match every downshift if not double-clutch it.

One reason to use your toes on the brake and your heel on the accelerator (as opposed to the other way around) is sensitivity. You still need to be able to modulate the brake, and you'll do a better job of that with your toes.

chiodos
chiodos Dork
May 9, 2016 4:56 p.m.

I think miatas are super easy to heeltoe and thus learn to heel toe in. I used to do it in traffic all day every day to commit it to memory. With my most recent car it wanted to die coming to a stop, heel toeing was a valuable resource to keep her going

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
May 9, 2016 5:27 p.m.

My huge feet lend themselves to rolling the side of my foot onto the gas pedal.

Mike
Mike Dork
May 9, 2016 5:44 p.m.

Mine seems to be crap as of late. I am beginning to suspect I should blame my tools. I'm wondering if the hybrid system is selectively overruling my blips in the interest of efficiency. It seems to want to give me about +250 rpm or with slightly more effort, +2000 rpm, and rarely something in between. All of my blips are massively high or low.

snailmont5oh
May 9, 2016 5:49 p.m.

I can't not heel toe, to the point that I did it when driving my buddy's 3500 Dodge dually diesel. He was like, "Was that a heel toe?" I was like, "Yep."

Robbie
Robbie SuperDork
May 9, 2016 5:54 p.m.
snailmont5oh wrote: I can't not heel toe, to the point that I did it when driving my buddy's 3500 Dodge dually diesel. He was like, "Was that a heel toe?" I was like, "Yep."

I was driving my 84 f250 diesel about a year ago, and coming up to a turn I decided to see if I could left foot brake and no clutch revmatch + shift from 4th to 3rd. Worked great. hahaha fun driving big trucks like a sportscar.

Fitzauto
Fitzauto HalfDork
May 9, 2016 6:00 p.m.

Im alright at it. I keep practicing on the street but I have trouble translating that to the track.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
May 9, 2016 7:09 p.m.

In reply to Desmond:

Or this old French guy driving an econobox...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YdhGmL5uD_k

sesto elemento
May 9, 2016 8:23 p.m.

Swmbo can high heel-toe.

vwcorvette
vwcorvette SuperDork
May 9, 2016 8:46 p.m.

I cannot heel-toe due to a weak ankle and drop foot condition. I cannot role my foot and then bring it back. I haz sad.

snailmont5oh
May 9, 2016 8:51 p.m.
Robbie wrote:
snailmont5oh wrote: I can't not heel toe, to the point that I did it when driving my buddy's 3500 Dodge dually diesel. He was like, "Was that a heel toe?" I was like, "Yep."

I was driving my 84 f250 diesel about a year ago, and coming up to a turn I decided to see if I could left foot brake and no clutch revmatch + shift from 4th to 3rd. Worked great. hahaha fun driving big trucks like a sportscar.

I try not to no-clutch anything synchronized. It can be real hard on the blocker rings. I also really want a dog box so that I can left foot brake my car on the road course.

I asked one of my truck driving buddies if he left foot braked in the big truck, and he was like, "No, why would I?" I explained that he could keep slowing down while downshifting to the next gear (to increase the effectiveness of the Jake), and he just thought that was dumb.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
May 9, 2016 9:00 p.m.

No-clutch shifting a synchro box is easy if you're gentle and have a good sense of timing. That used to be the only way I drove my Subaru. It was good practice for when the clutch cable broke, too.

Well, sometimes easy. I had no problems driving the Subaru, any RX-7, or an 020-trans Golf without the clutch. I could never get the hang of it in my 016-trans Quantum, though. And, like every other manual trans car I had with hydraulics, the clutch master cylinder failed on it. I got it home and in to work the next day but it was not pretty.

(Not to rag on hydraulic systems. I'm 2 for 2 for clutch cable failures, as well)

outasite
outasite Reader
May 9, 2016 9:06 p.m.

I learned heel and toe driving cars that had manual chokes, rough idles and possible stalling conditions back in the days of carburetors before fuel injection and computers took control.

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock
May 9, 2016 9:08 p.m.
Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
May 9, 2016 9:12 p.m.

Irony: I'm far superior at heal-toe in a 450,000mi, worn out 4Runner, than I am in a fresh FR-S.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
May 9, 2016 9:21 p.m.

I widened the gas pedal in my 1ZZ Prizm so I could do it, though it's better described as toe-toe in anything with a hung gas pedal.

Appleseed wrote: Irony: I'm far superior at heal-toe in a 450,000mi, worn out 4Runner, than I am in a fresh FR-S.

Blame drive by wire.

maj75
maj75 Reader
May 10, 2016 7:08 a.m.

I always had a hard time because with my long legs, my heel ends up under the brake pedal and the ball of my foot on the gas pedal. I obsessed about my "inability" to heel and toe.

Then I read that Danny Sulivan said that he could never heel and toe. He was pretty successful IIRC, so I stopped worrying about it :)

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Reader
May 10, 2016 7:26 a.m.

When I wanted to learn to heel-toe in the E30, I made myself do it for every single downshift to practice. That eventually became double clutching since the G240 trans has weak 2nd gear synchros and the 3>2 shift was a challenge. Now, I can't downshift at all without double clutching because I screw the timing up so bad. The Caprice took some massaging to get the pedals in the right place since it was an automatic and the gas and brake were a mile apart, but that's all fixed now. The only issues I have with it now are in cars where the brake pedal is much higher than the accelerator. It took a long time to learn, but I also have exclusively manual-transmission cars, which helped.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
May 10, 2016 7:57 a.m.
maj75 wrote: I always had a hard time because with my long legs, my heel ends up under the brake pedal and the ball of my foot on the gas pedal. I obsessed about my "inability" to heel and toe. Then I read that Danny Sulivan said that he could never heel and toe. He was pretty successful IIRC, so I stopped worrying about it :)

I wasn't able to do it in my '00 Audi A6, but once I got my '91 Miata it because way easier. I too had to keep my heel under the brake pedal for my size 12/13 feet. That's why I would use the ball of my foot on the corner of the brake and use my little(r) toe(s) to modulate the gas. I think if you've never learned how to heel toe, it's hard to figure out if the pedals are ideal or are working against you. That and thin soled, floppy shoes. [cough -or bare foot -cough]

Desmond
Desmond HalfDork
May 10, 2016 11:05 a.m.

Thin soled, floppy shoes are the best for performance driving, IMO.

paranoid_android74
May 10, 2016 12:14 p.m.
Turboeric
Turboeric Reader
May 10, 2016 12:35 p.m.

I may lose the skill I've honed over the past 45 years. My 15 WRX won't allow brake and throttle at the same time - nannies to protect me from myself. This is touted as a 'feature'. Bah!

92dxman
92dxman SuperDork
May 10, 2016 12:55 p.m.

What is the best thing to watch to learn how to heel toe from?

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
May 10, 2016 1:03 p.m.
Streetwiseguy wrote: My huge feet lend themselves to rolling the side of my foot onto the gas pedal.

Yep, me too - been doing it that way forever, both street and autocross.

The pedal relationship isn't as good in the Fiesta as it was in the Sentra, so it took me a bit to get used to it. But I'm back to heel-and-toeing for every aggressively driven corner. I just like the control of having the clutch fully engaged as I reach the apex.

Desmond
Desmond HalfDork
May 10, 2016 1:32 p.m.
92dxman wrote: What is the best thing to watch to learn how to heel toe from?

I learned from watching Hot Version and Best Motoring, honestly. I'm sure there are all sorts of youtube videos on it now though.

Also TurboEric, there is usually some wire you can cut or something to get stop the car from knowing you are left foot braking.

trigun7469
May 10, 2016 1:56 p.m.

One of those skills with all the new fangled technology that will become a lost art, sadly when my daughter is 16 in 16 years, I doubt they will have manuals available to even teach her.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
May 10, 2016 1:59 p.m.
92dxman wrote: What is the best thing to watch to learn how to heel toe from?

I learned by reading about the technique and then trying it.

These skills will indeed become obsolete as H-pattern gearboxes are phased out. In the future performance drivers will just keep their left foot on the brake pedal and right foot on the gas, go-kart style.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
May 10, 2016 2:06 p.m.

mine sucks

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
May 10, 2016 4:10 p.m.
92dxman wrote: What is the best thing to watch to learn how to heel toe from?

Watch? Do. Sit in the idling car, figure out how to blip the throttle while applying the brakes (some cars have wide pedal spacing or high brake pedals that make this difficult without gas pedal modification), this will probably involve big toe on the brake and pinky on the gas (heel on the floor or floating) unless it has a floor hinge throttle. Then blip it when you downshift, like clutch in, blip (requires practice to get the right amount for a proper rev match) and shift, clutch out. This should be easy to pick up if you already rev match your downshifts on the street when you need passing power or come into a lower speed limit area.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
May 10, 2016 4:13 p.m.

Yeah, practice at every stop sign and traffic light as possible.

Petrolburner
May 11, 2016 2:06 p.m.

The challenge with practicing in my car on the street is at normal speeds I just don't have to press the brake hard enough or long enough to get meaningful practice in. Maybe I'm wrong. Highway speed from 6th gear to 2nd for a tight turn on my route to work is the only chance I get for a good heel-toe. I have sharper billet machined clutch and brake pedal covers plus a gas pedal cover that closes the gap between throttle and brake. I like them a lot. One of my favorite mods to the car.

Cactus
Cactus Reader
May 11, 2016 2:48 p.m.

Good driving shoes make a huge difference. If you can't find good driving shoes, wrestling shoes are a decent substitution. The less sole, the better.

I'm having a hell of a time finding pics or evidence, but I remember hearing a story about F1 drivers ~60+ years ago cutting the front off their shoes so they could have better pedal control.

Shaun
Shaun HalfDork
May 11, 2016 2:55 p.m.

I have found at 6'4" with size 13 shoes that toe and heel vs heel and toe to be car dependent on both physical constraints and the power of the brake assist. Some cars would not be hauled down with toe pressure. I think slow cheap cars slow on empty dirt roads is the bomb digitty for practicing- everything to do with car piloting.. second only to freshly plowed below freezing roads in the middle of the night.

dj06482
dj06482 SuperDork
May 11, 2016 3:21 p.m.

My '01 Mustang could use some better pedal placement, and possibly some grippier pedals. Although I have a feeling my technique is holding me back much more than the pedals are

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
May 11, 2016 3:32 p.m.
92dxman wrote: What is the best thing to watch to learn how to heel toe from?

The scenery unfolding through the windshield of a car that you have very little love for....

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
May 11, 2016 3:39 p.m.

My heel toe is more like toe-toe as others have mentioned. Second nature...I do it every time. I also double-clutch down to second just as a habit from previous well-used beaters.

Left foot brake is a skill set that I still need to hone. The brake pedal will still be around after the clutch pedal is relegated to historic events.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
May 11, 2016 5:35 p.m.
Tyler H wrote: Left foot brake is a skill set that I still need to hone.

Why would you want to learn bad habits?

snailmont5oh
May 11, 2016 6:35 p.m.

Because bad habits are good when used properly. You can't drive a shifter kart without left foot braking.

Shaun
Shaun HalfDork
May 11, 2016 7:09 p.m.

When I was a kid Malibu Grand Prix was in its glory around Southern California and the only fast way around the track was left foot braking. The signs all said not to but when the employees and mechanics took laps they all left foot braked. Some amount of left foot braking works with some slush boxes in some situations and if it's good enough for Walter Rohrl I rekon it has its place.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
May 11, 2016 7:42 p.m.
Shaun wrote: if it's good enough for Walter Rohrl I rekon it has its place.

Mind you, he was driving a car with turbo lag measured with a calendar and primitive engine controls. 2.1l, 6.6:1 compression, and a K27 turbo (think medium sized Diesel truck, very large and very heavy wheels and huge bearing shaft) with a huge hotside for thermal stress reasons. If you didn't keep the throttle open all the time as a kind of manual antilag, you might not get full boost until the next gearchange. Or two. Not really exaggerating. And the chassis dynamics were best described as "horrid".

Wath how many times Jean Ragnotti used his left foot on the brake. You can count it with all the fingers on your left foot.

It can be a useful crutch but it is still a crutch - if you need it, it's proof that you have problems elsewhere.

My favorite LFB quote is from an old, old rally driver. Paraphrased, "If one of my competitors is getting close to me in speed, I tell him about left foot braking. Then I don't have to worry about him for the rest of the season"

Shaun
Shaun HalfDork
May 11, 2016 9:47 p.m.

Sure! The place left foot braking has is small. Smaller than stabbing (and frying) the clutch to make a spike of power? For me yes. Oddly it occurred to me as I read your post that 'the hive' at Google thinks anything other than dining, texting, or taking selfies and such while moving somewhere in an automobile would be using a crutch! In reply to Knurled:

Shaun
Shaun HalfDork
May 11, 2016 10:00 p.m.

On the other hand! The Colin McRea vid down the "left footed braking is fast" article a bit is hilariously left footed:

my left foot.

Tom1200
Tom1200 Reader
May 12, 2016 12:03 a.m.

@knurled neither LFB (rally style) nor using left to brake are bad habits. They are an advantage, the only issue is learning the technique. If you getting the last enth out of a car you're going to have the brake and throttle over lapping.

I can heal and toe double clutch in everything from my old pick up truck to formula cars. I can say that the technique is brought on by the abomination that is the H pattern road car gearbox . Drive a shifter kart or motorcycle engined car where you can go up and down through the box without the clutch and you soon view standard automotive box as an anachronism.

My actual foot placement varies depending on the car but for the most part I use the ball of my foot on the brake and the side on the brake. I've seen some in car of guys using there toes on the gas.......I think it simply is whatever works for you.

Easy to learn find a big lot drive along in 3rd brake lightly blip the throttle downshift to 2nd, make a u-turn, shift up to 3rd the blip the throttle go down to 2nd, make a u-turn..........repeat till you have the technique down. If you are not sure of much to blip the throttle simply drive along in 3rd at a speed slow enough to just blip the throttle and shift into 2nd. Once you have a feel for the RPM add the the braking component of the exercise.

Tom

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
May 12, 2016 12:45 p.m.
Knurled wrote:
Tyler H wrote: Left foot brake is a skill set that I still need to hone.
Why would you want to learn bad habits?

Because I have menagerie of bad habits....I have a real knack for it. When I try to pick up a new bad habit and it's difficult, it pisses me off.

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Meet the POS2000

Posted by Ed Higginbotham May 3, 2016, 10:13 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/v3JVSsaaSVk
Meet the POS2000. Jesse Waymire resurrected this junkyard Honda S2000 to be a major autocross contender.
Show comments

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Skidpad Terror: V8 Exocet

Posted by Ed Higginbotham April 28, 2016, 8:01 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/-AEIOJT1sMM
On Sunday, April 24, we held the Grassroots Motorsports Skidpad Challenge at Road Atlanta during the Classic Motorsports Mitty weekend. Of 54 drivers, Kevin Patrick managed to record the highest calculated lateral Gs in this V8-powered Exomotive Exocet. Join us next year for the same event on the Sunday of the Classic Motorsports Mitty.
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Can-Am Legends at Full Throttle

Posted by Ed Higginbotham April 26, 2016, 12:09 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/FOmD4CtpUjY
Spectators at the Mitty this past weekend were treated to on-track action featuring some of the most legendary racing machines ever built.
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This Supercharged Miata Autocrosser Means Business

Posted by Ed Higginbotham March 28, 2016, 12:59 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/4utFYEIJF8g
Eric and Randall’s Miata features all the supercharged, cone-slaying madness you’ve been craving. It’s one of very few competitive SSM-class Miatas in the autocross world.
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Fastest Lap From the 2015 UTCC

Posted by Ed Higginbotham March 10, 2016, 8:27 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/rCvsJ7WAn94
The 2016 Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge is almost two months away. Let’s look back to the fastest lap from last year’s event, courtesy Ben Keating and the ViperExchange.com Viper.
Show comments
Harvey
Harvey Dork
March 10, 2016 9:13 a.m.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
March 10, 2016 10:51 a.m.

That was cool! It seems to me that it could have been even better if it wasn't for some traffic in the beginning of the lap and a bit of a wiggle entering the esses.

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This Lotus 7 is a Gymkhana Terror

Posted by Tom Suddard Feb. 19, 2016, 11:48 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/RHgjFPhhzY8?rel=0
Ever wondered where gymkhana, the motorsport that made Ken Block famous, got its start? Parking lots, of course. Gymkhana and autocross are distant relatives, with the former involving lower speeds and more complex maneuvers. Watch this expertly-driven Lotus 7 tear up a British gymkhana course.
Show comments
OldGray320i
OldGray320i HalfDork
Feb. 19, 2016 10:57 a.m.

That was cool.

RedGT
RedGT Reader
Feb. 19, 2016 11:08 a.m.

I just assumed that every car guy on the internet had already seen that video.

TGMF
TGMF Reader
Feb. 19, 2016 11:14 a.m.

good god that looks hard on the trans.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 11:14 a.m.
RedGT wrote: I just assumed that every car guy on the internet had already seen that video.

There are always new car guys.

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock
Feb. 19, 2016 11:19 a.m.

I remember watching gymkhana back in the eighties on, I think, wide wide world of sports. Or a similar show. IIRC minis' were hugely popular.

slantvaliant
slantvaliant UltraDork
Feb. 19, 2016 11:32 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote:
RedGT wrote: I just assumed that every car guy on the internet had already seen that video.

There are always new car guys.

And old car guys who like to see repeats now and then.

bravenrace
bravenrace MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:01 p.m.

That has to be some kind of trickery. We all know that only Ken Block can drive that well.

OldGray320i
OldGray320i HalfDork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:12 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote:
RedGT wrote: I just assumed that every car guy on the internet had already seen that video.

There are always new car guys.

Or old car guys that don't get out enough. Or in enough. Or whatever it is one does to get to these newfangled technologies...

Sure are a lot of horseless carriages on this forum.

edizzle89
edizzle89 HalfDork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:22 p.m.

usually i would say the car control would be the hardest part... but remembering where the hell to go and what you need to do is the real challenge here

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:29 p.m.

Utterly entertaining video. Crazy car control is crazy.

Also, quite pleased with the lack of "hate that one drifter guy and his flat brimmed cap" posting in this thread. Bravo GRM.

Driven5
Driven5 Dork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:48 p.m.

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

That wasn't drifting.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:58 p.m.
RedGT wrote: I just assumed that every car guy on the internet had already seen that video.

That and the gymkhana run in the classic Mini where he does a brakie at the end.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 12:59 p.m.
Driven5 wrote: That wasn't drifting.

mndsm
mndsm MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 1:05 p.m.
slantvaliant wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote:
RedGT wrote: I just assumed that every car guy on the internet had already seen that video.

There are always new car guys.

And old car guys who like to see repeats now and then.

Alzheimers and all that.

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
Feb. 19, 2016 1:06 p.m.

As hard as it is to find autocross sites where I live, we may have to start running events like that again!

Kia_Racer
Kia_Racer SuperDork
Feb. 19, 2016 1:08 p.m.
edizzle89 wrote: usually i would say the car control would be the hardest part... but remembering where the hell to go and what you need to do is the real challenge here

This

I would not want to try that in my SAAB! I don't think I could get into reverse fast enough.

Desmond
Desmond HalfDork
Feb. 19, 2016 1:35 p.m.

In other news, Ken's Hooner-Fiesta is for sale right now...

http://www.motorsportauctions.com/category/323/World-Rally-Cars/listings/35736/Hoonigan-Racing-Ford-Fiesta-WRC-HFHV.html

trucke
trucke Dork
Feb. 19, 2016 1:38 p.m.

I thought our event lots were small!

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 1:50 p.m.
TGMF wrote: good nicolas cage that looks hard on the trans.

This looks like a good place for an automatic.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 2:11 p.m.

I have no earthly idea how someone even memorizes that course!

foxtrapper
foxtrapper UltimaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 2:38 p.m.

If my eyes aren't deceiving me, I think a good part of what you're seeing there is the power of cutting brakes.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
Feb. 19, 2016 5:09 p.m.
TGMF wrote: good god that looks hard on the trans.

I had a friend that blew the transmission in his XK140 doing just that.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
Feb. 19, 2016 5:13 p.m.

Hey Tom, I was the one that showed that video to your dad in this thread.

Vigo
Vigo PowerDork
Feb. 19, 2016 6:43 p.m.

I don't think i've owned a single manual trans car with a synchronized reverse.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 6:54 p.m.
iceracer wrote:
TGMF wrote: good god that looks hard on the trans.

I had a friend that blew the transmission in his XK140 doing just that.

It looks like every shift into reverse is done with the rear wheels locked up. It should shift with no problem.

bentwrench
Feb. 19, 2016 9:26 p.m.

Automatic for sure, He gets +100 bonus points if that is not an automatic!

Car is light and tires are hard rubber, not big and inflated well.

Fueled by Caffeine
Feb. 19, 2016 9:56 p.m.

I'll bet that's not an automatic.

My uk friends refered to this as "autotest" I believe.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 10:18 p.m.

And because its name has been invoked, The Mini.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/QcglWsEco4g?rel=0

boulder_dweeb
boulder_dweeb New Reader
Feb. 19, 2016 10:25 p.m.

yeah.... but what kinda magic potion gets you the nose stand??

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
Feb. 19, 2016 10:40 p.m.

It's been shortened - look at the length of the rear window. All the weight is in the nose, there's really nothing in the back but some small wheels to keep it from dragging on the ground. Shorty Minis are known for stoppies.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
Feb. 20, 2016 6:05 a.m.

I'm with Tuna on this one. As someone who has never been able to find a course amidst a sea of orange cones, I can't begin to imagine how these guys manage. Can you picture them walking the course and doing all those pirouettes?

petegossett
petegossett PowerDork
Feb. 20, 2016 6:09 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Ok, that's the first I've heard of a shorty-mini, but now I really want one. It's almost 1/2-Shriner's car - 1/2-racecar!

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Feb. 20, 2016 6:50 a.m.

I loose my way to breakfast- I'd never find my way through that course!

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
Feb. 20, 2016 12:02 p.m.
petegossett wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: Ok, that's the first I've heard of a shorty-mini, but now I really want one. It's almost 1/2-Shriner's car - 1/2-racecar!

The one in the video is not shortened much. Usually you simply take the doors out and sit in the back seat. "Shorty Mini" is a most rewarding Google search.

snailmont5oh
Feb. 20, 2016 1:40 p.m.

I wanted to post the Mini stoppie video, but I was waaaaaaay too late. Nice weather today, so we're irresponsibly running backroads in SWMBO's '14 Impala. This would be an awesome car if it wasn't programmed for 80-year-olds.

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed SuperDork
Feb. 20, 2016 4:42 p.m.
tuna55 wrote: I have no earthly idea how someone even memorizes that course!

^^^^This. It's impossible!

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The Beginning of the End

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Feb. 18, 2016, 1:47 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ja3afXOvwNI
Behold the beginning of the end. The Grassroots Motorsports LeMons Miata was really moving at the start of its last race. Unfortunately, during our third stint, tragedy struck.
Show comments
Fueled by Caffeine
Feb. 19, 2016 10:04 p.m.

What was in that yellow metro?

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
Feb. 19, 2016 10:13 p.m.

Good bit of video. It really does give a good idea for for how difficult it is to drive a fast line in that kind of traffic. You guys were doing well.

mikell17
mikell17 New Reader
June 2, 2016 2:43 p.m.

I was going to say that place looked like a golf course, then I realized it is Barber. Basically nicer than most golf courses.

trucke
trucke Dork
June 2, 2016 4:09 p.m.

From the thread title, I thought this was about the presidential election.

WOW Really Paul?
June 2, 2016 4:24 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: What was in that yellow metro?

That was lemonaid racing's BMW inline 6 swapped metro.....it was barely beat out in being the first to win all three classes(by a duratec v6 swapped metro)

kazoospec
kazoospec SuperDork
June 2, 2016 6:00 p.m.

LOL at the Pontiac minivan-based Imperial Shuttle. Style points, but not fast.

motomoron
motomoron SuperDork
June 2, 2016 6:39 p.m.

The race cars vs. parade floats aspect isn't unlike the mixed species run groups that get assembled to fit 100 SCCA classes into 8 run groups. In "wings and things" you can have a pro in a formula Atlantic and a rookie in a formula Vee circulating at the same time with about a 30% lap time differential. Very tricky dealing with local yellow situations.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
June 5, 2016 7:05 p.m.

What's the last thing that goes through a Miata's mind before it dies?

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
June 5, 2016 8:15 p.m.
Knurled wrote: What's the last thing that goes through a Miata's mind before it dies?

Its back bumper

paranoid_android74
June 5, 2016 9:59 p.m.

Ouch?

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 PowerDork
June 6, 2016 9:21 a.m.

Technically, the beginning of the end is at the end of the beginning.

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Fastest Autocross Run at the $2015 Challenge

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Feb. 15, 2016, 9:45 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/X-TgaDvWOVI
As you’re reading $2015 Challenge coverage in the current issue of Grassroots Motorsports, you might want to see what the fastest autocross run of the weekend looked like. Here it is: Texas A&M Racing ran the fastest time by almost 1.5 seconds. Even more impressive: They did it with one of their own drivers/college students, rather than one of the pro drivers we provide.
Show comments
icaneat50eggs
Feb. 15, 2016 10:16 a.m.

Whoop!

admc58
admc58 Reader
Feb. 15, 2016 11:43 a.m.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Feb. 15, 2016 12:26 p.m.

I tip my hat.

I was 2nd place- couldn't even come close in a very well sorted car.

Great job, guys!

unevolved
unevolved SuperDork
Feb. 15, 2016 1:52 p.m.

Whoop!

conesare2seconds
Feb. 15, 2016 5:50 p.m.

Nice work, that.

Spoolpigeon
Spoolpigeon UberDork
Feb. 15, 2016 6:28 p.m.

Very nice!

spitfirebill
spitfirebill PowerDork
Feb. 15, 2016 6:38 p.m.

Dayam that was fast.

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Riding the Rev Limiter in a Suzuki Swift

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Feb. 10, 2016, 1:23 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/-xavmXObWZo
Did you know a Suzuki Swift raced in the Firestone Firehawk series? Well it did. And it was awesome.
Show comments
Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
Feb. 10, 2016 1:43 p.m.

They also were raced in the AWD version for rally as well. Those ran to 10.5k rpms

chiodos
chiodos HalfDork
Feb. 10, 2016 3:53 p.m.

That's awesome, he was revving the piss out of that thing!

bentwrench
Feb. 10, 2016 7:29 p.m.

I can't help but think he would have been faster if he shifted sooner...

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
Feb. 11, 2016 11:56 a.m.
bentwrench wrote: I can't help but think he would have been faster if he shifted sooner...

Best acceleration has the horsepower before the shift the same as the horsepower after the shift. So this will require shifting well past peak HP with a street car wide ratio gearbox.

For an example that comes to mind, early RX-7s made peak power at 6000, mostly made noise over 7000rpm... but best acceleration involved shifting at 7700, waaaaay past the engine's powerband.

This is why you want redline to be about 2000rpm higher than peak horsepower.

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
Feb. 11, 2016 12:05 p.m.

Historic club racing video on R-comps looks maybe a hair slower than crapcan racing on DOT street tires these days.

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Chop Top Challenge

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Dec. 22, 2015, 1:54 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/rS6EVvxAwnE
Ever felt like you just wanted to chop the roof off your car and take it on a road trip from Chicago to Miami? Well then you’ve found some kindred spirits. These guys regularly participate in our $2000 Challenge and we support this endeavor. Want to find out more about the Chop Top Challenge? Click here.
Show comments
xflowgolf
Dec. 22, 2015 1:57 p.m.

current discussion: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/chop-top-challenge/108029/page1/

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
Dec. 22, 2015 2:54 p.m.

Yep. Just adding to our "Videos" page, which comes with an automated forum post. Sorry for the repost.

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The New Lotus Exige Sport 350 is...

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Dec. 17, 2015, 10:53 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/w6sxakg-nTk
… Wild. Lotus made it about 112 pounds lighter than the previous Exige S. And the 345-horsepower V6 launches it from 0 to 60 mph in just 3.7 seconds. On a side note, this is one of the most Top Gear-esque promo videos we’ve seen.
Show comments
Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:04 a.m.

I love how calm the driver is in all of that...

calteg
calteg HalfDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:10 a.m.

That video got my pants tight. Too bad we don't get that car on this side of the pond

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:24 a.m.

Has a road going Lotus ever had a V6 before?

calteg
calteg HalfDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:26 a.m.
RossD wrote: Has a road going Lotus ever had a V6 before?

Pretty sure the Evora is a V6

pointofdeparture
Dec. 17, 2015 11:27 a.m.

In reply to RossD:

Evora has a V6.

Klayfish
Klayfish UltraDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:30 a.m.

And if I'm right, the Evora's V6 is lifted almost directly from the Toyota Sienna.

chuckles
chuckles HalfDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:31 a.m.

Six figures?

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
Dec. 17, 2015 11:37 a.m.
Ed Higginbotham wrote: On a side note, this is one of the most Top Gear-esque promo videos we've seen.

My only issue with that is- why do people think that wheel spin and over steer = a car that handles well. To me, that means a car that handles like crap.

And wheel spin on a wet surface? Who needs 345hp to do that?

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
Dec. 17, 2015 12:06 p.m.
calteg wrote:
RossD wrote: Has a road going Lotus ever had a V6 before?

Pretty sure the Evora is a V6

Also all S3 Exiges are available with a V6.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
Dec. 17, 2015 1:25 p.m.

Neat car.

Now can I complain about measuring downforce in Kg? AAAAHHH!!!

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
Dec. 17, 2015 2:16 p.m.
alfadriver wrote:
Ed Higginbotham wrote: On a side note, this is one of the most Top Gear-esque promo videos we've seen.

My only issue with that is- why do people think that wheel spin and over steer = a car that handles well. To me, that means a car that handles like crap.

And wheel spin on a wet surface? Who needs 345hp to do that?

It's clearly marketed towards the UK, because they wouldn't know what a dry track looks like.

NickD
NickD Reader
Dec. 17, 2015 3:04 p.m.
Tyler H wrote:
alfadriver wrote:
Ed Higginbotham wrote: On a side note, this is one of the most Top Gear-esque promo videos we've seen.

My only issue with that is- why do people think that wheel spin and over steer = a car that handles well. To me, that means a car that handles like crap.

And wheel spin on a wet surface? Who needs 345hp to do that?

It's clearly marketed towards the UK, because they wouldn't know what a dry track looks like.

Hah, good one.

sesto elemento
Dec. 17, 2015 3:39 p.m.

A rav4 that sounds like that would be hilarious. A lot of people are doing 2gr swaps into mr2s, you can build your own version of this for 15k

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
Dec. 17, 2015 3:44 p.m.
Ed Higginbotham wrote: 112 pounds lighter

Love it.

Tired of seeing manufactuers touting 'lightweight technologies' only to release another porker.

gjz30075
gjz30075 HalfDork
Dec. 17, 2015 5:50 p.m.

I'm sure the wheelbase is longer on this Exige than earlier models because it looks so much nicer and not so stubby. Can't find the dimensions right now......

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Dec. 18, 2015 7:03 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: Neat car. Now can I complain about measuring downforce in Kg? AAAAHHH!!!

We could measure it in supermodels, but that number would be too high....

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Dec. 18, 2015 7:04 a.m.
sesto elemento wrote: A rav4 that sounds like that would be hilarious. A lot of people are doing 2gr swaps into mr2s, you can build your own version of this for 15k

That would just be exhaust as you can get a Rav4 with a V6....

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
Dec. 18, 2015 7:19 a.m.

So is this car going to be part of the GT3 field?

sesto elemento
Dec. 18, 2015 7:57 a.m.

In reply to Flight Service:

And a blower.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
Dec. 18, 2015 8:10 a.m.
gjz30075 wrote: I'm sure the wheelbase is longer on this Exige than earlier models because it looks so much nicer and not so stubby. Can't find the dimensions right now......

Yep the S3 is bigger than the S2, longer wheelbase and wider track.

NickD
NickD Reader
Dec. 18, 2015 9:24 a.m.
ProDarwin wrote:
Ed Higginbotham wrote: 112 pounds lighter
Love it. Tired of seeing manufactuers touting 'lightweight technologies' only to release another porker.

Yeah, like the new Mustang. Before it came out Ford kept taking about how it was going to be 200lbs lighter than the outgoing model. That and the IRS was all they talked about. Then it comes out and they say "Well, we kept weight gains minimal" and now it weighs as much as the 5th-gen Camaro, throwing away it's one major advantage over the competition.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
Dec. 18, 2015 9:30 a.m.
NickD wrote:
ProDarwin wrote:
Ed Higginbotham wrote: 112 pounds lighter
Love it. Tired of seeing manufactuers touting 'lightweight technologies' only to release another porker.

Yeah, like the new Mustang. Before it came out Ford kept taking about how it was going to be 200lbs lighter than the outgoing model. That and the IRS was all they talked about. Then it comes out and they say "Well, we kept weight gains minimal" and now it weighs as much as the 5th-gen Camaro, throwing away it's one major advantage over the competition.

You know, I never saw anyone say officially that the new Mustang was going to be lighter. Except for the interweb and media people. For that matter, I didn't actually see any real official releases of the IRS until the actual release.

Just sayn.

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The 240 cm Challenge

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Dec. 3, 2015, 8:35 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/gyV_NeeSVIQ
Jenson Button shows off some significant spacial awareness.
Show comments
KyAllroad
KyAllroad SuperDork
Dec. 3, 2015 8:56 a.m.

In reply to Ed Higginbotham:

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
Dec. 3, 2015 11:05 a.m.

Did they have to use concrete barriers? Wouldn't styrofoam have accomplished the same point with less chance of death?

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
Dec. 3, 2015 11:08 a.m.

They didn't use concrete barriers, or even plastic or styrofoam barriers. They used something far safer: CGI barriers.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/jenson-button-still-has-it/108167/page1/

Trackmouse
Trackmouse HalfDork
Dec. 3, 2015 1:10 p.m.

So when is this going to become part of the challenge? I could see this being like a game of automotive "limbo"

Robbie
Robbie SuperDork
Dec. 3, 2015 1:17 p.m.
Trackmouse wrote: So when is this going to become part of the challenge? I could see this being like a game of automotive "limbo"

Probably tougher for the wide cars like the aristocrats and the minivans...

EDIT: just like limbo sucks for tall people.

jstein77
jstein77 UltraDork
Dec. 3, 2015 2:18 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: They didn't use concrete barriers, or even plastic or styrofoam barriers. They used something far safer: CGI barriers. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/jenson-button-still-has-it/108167/page1/

Okay, now I'm embarrassed - fell for it hook, line and sinker. Missed the earlier post.

edizzle89
edizzle89 HalfDork
Dec. 3, 2015 3:39 p.m.
Robbie wrote:
Trackmouse wrote: So when is this going to become part of the challenge? I could see this being like a game of automotive "limbo"

Probably tougher for the wide cars like the aristocrats and the minivans...

EDIT: just like limbo sucks for tall people.

just make the 'gate' X inches wider the the car trying to pass though it, so its the same basically the challenge for each vehicle

Woody
Woody MegaDork
Dec. 3, 2015 6:08 p.m.
edizzle89 wrote:
Robbie wrote:
Trackmouse wrote: So when is this going to become part of the challenge? I could see this being like a game of automotive "limbo"

Probably tougher for the wide cars like the aristocrats and the minivans...

EDIT: just like limbo sucks for tall people.

just make the 'gate' X inches wider the the car trying to pass though it, so its the same basically the challenge for each vehicle

I think this only works with centimeters...

Wall-e
Wall-e MegaDork
Dec. 3, 2015 8:33 p.m.

Here's a video from our Bus Roadeo. At about 5:25 you get a good view of out last obstacle where you have to accelerate to 20mph through a series of barrels that get narrower and then stop within 6 inches of a traffic cone. Points are deducted for hitting a barrel, the cone, stopping too far from the cone or not stopping in one smooth stop. It's a bit slower than an F1 car but only about 15cm of space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8W1D-NvCDo

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Doug Wind's Nasty Neon

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Nov. 24, 2015, 8:51 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/0ql0C-bwUVY
Doug Wind set the track record for a front-wheel-drive car at Virginia International Raceway during our 2015 Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge in his 600 horsepower Dodge Neon SRT4. Want to learn more about this car? We’ll have a feature story on Doug’s car in the next issue.
Show comments

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FTD in Our F500

Posted by JG Pasterjak Nov. 17, 2015, 1:27 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/S2evnHRgqr4
It was a good weekend for our F500 at the Florida State autocross championships. We scored a win in F Modified, top PAX in the combined Modified group, and an overall FTD for the event. Here’s the view from the rollbar.
Show comments
sachilles
sachilles UltraDork
Nov. 17, 2015 1:36 p.m.

You are allowed to run that with short sleeves?

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
Nov. 17, 2015 2:07 p.m.
sachilles wrote: You are allowed to run that with short sleeves?

For autocrossing, if you're not in a kart, the only actual requirement is closed-toed shoes and a helmet with a face shield if you have no windscreen. Pants are probably a good idea, otherwise that six-point harness is gonna pinch something fierce.

pimpm3
pimpm3 Dork
Nov. 17, 2015 2:08 p.m.

Good job! You looked very smooth on course.

I wish my weekend went as well, I was 5th out of ten in my class . I still need to work on my driving and the cars set up...

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 17, 2015 3:02 p.m.

In reply to JG Pasterjak:

You should meet Ed. He's a good guy, and sometimes posts links about F500 wins.

fiesta54
fiesta54 Reader
Nov. 17, 2015 3:05 p.m.

Aaaaand off to look for an f500

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
Nov. 17, 2015 3:17 p.m.

Screw the time, I'd be a drifting fool at 40 and 50 seconds in!

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
Nov. 17, 2015 3:33 p.m.

My favorite part is the body english trying to miss the cone at 1:04. Apparently it worked, too. Didn't even realize I did that until I saw the video.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
Nov. 17, 2015 3:35 p.m.

I like how the starter holds his ear as you start off.

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
Nov. 17, 2015 5:40 p.m.

That's not like any autocross course that I've driven! Nice!

nocones
nocones SuperDork
Nov. 17, 2015 6:06 p.m.
sachilles wrote: You are allowed to run that with short sleeves?

I'm torn on this. Im not sure what level of safety gear i will wear in my Dmod car. These are legit race cars. Things happen in legit race cars. But its short runs with nothing (theoretically) to run into and help is closer (but probably less prepared to help in fire). In my Mod car I will also have passengers so whatever safety I choose they need too.. It's complicated. SCCA doesn't care. Kart only has requirements.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
Nov. 17, 2015 6:15 p.m.

As you mentioned I liked the use of body English to help the car turn.

Not just that one, everyone.

Spoolpigeon
Spoolpigeon UberDork
Nov. 17, 2015 6:41 p.m.
Ian F wrote: I like how the starter holds his ear as you start off.

The first tour I went to I worked while FM ran. Day 2 I had earplugs.

Tim Suddard
Tim Suddard Publisher
Nov. 17, 2015 7:14 p.m.

Congrats! JG!

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
Nov. 17, 2015 7:16 p.m.
Kreb wrote: That's not like any autocross course that I've driven! Nice!

QFT. That's a small race track, not an autocross.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
Nov. 17, 2015 7:42 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote:
Kreb wrote: That's not like any autocross course that I've driven! Nice!

QFT. That's a small race track, not an autocross.

It's the FIRM, where we do a lot of our official magazine testing. As decent autocross sites are ver much at a premium in Central Florida right now, a lot of the local clubs use it for autocrosses, but they cone down some of the faster parts or throw in some slaloms or offsets. Done right, it ends up being a nice mix of styles between classic corners and autocross elements.

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed SuperDork
Nov. 17, 2015 7:59 p.m.

Congrats. I think it was a nice run and smooth. Good job!!

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
Nov. 18, 2015 7:11 a.m.
JG Pasterjak wrote: My favorite part is the body english trying to miss the cone at 1:04. Apparently it worked, too. Didn't even realize I did that until I saw the video.

Well... how much do you weigh compared to a F500? It's entirely possible forcibly shifting your weight in the car could have an effect. Granted, with that fancy, form-fitted seat, you shouldn't be able to move much.

I think the clothing is a personal matter. I would probably run a full suit - not because of safety concerns, but mainly because if I get a F500 the eventual plan would be to road-race it. Wearing the suit while running it at autocross would give me a chance to get used to wearing it.

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
Nov. 18, 2015 8:08 a.m.

JG, how'd the seat foam build thing work out?

Tom1200
Tom1200 Reader
Nov. 19, 2015 12:59 a.m.

Congrats JG this is why I bought an F500; I'm after FTD as well, so far 2nd is the best I've done so I get how gratifying FTD must have been for you.

As for what I wear in my car I try to at the least wear long sleeves, at faster events I'd be inclined to wear my HANS as well. My car has a fire system and soon will have a new bladder which is a lot more than most autocross cars.

Tom

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Hunting Bigfoot With a Trophy Truck

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Nov. 11, 2015, 3:53 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/wM0qmMb3sCg
BJ Baldwin heads to the Pacific Northwest with his 800hp Trophy Truck to hunt Bruce the Sasquatch. Thanks to Toyo Tires for the entertainment.
Show comments
dj06482
dj06482 SuperDork
Nov. 11, 2015 7:15 p.m.

I think I need a trophy truck.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
Nov. 11, 2015 7:23 p.m.

I hate to be that guy Ed, but Xceler8x beat you to the punch on this one.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 PowerDork
Nov. 11, 2015 7:44 p.m.

Hey, Sasquatches are people too! Can't we all just get along?

ckosacranoid
Nov. 11, 2015 7:57 p.m.

Thats funny for sure and very cool.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
Nov. 12, 2015 1:52 p.m.
Toyman01 wrote: I hate to be that guy Ed, but Xceler8x beat you to the punch on this one.

I hate to be that guy, but when we post a video to our new Videos page it automatically alerts the world via a message board post.

Video? Yes, we've got a video!

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
Nov. 12, 2015 5:14 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens:

That makes sense and is probably a good idea.

Grtechguy
Grtechguy UltimaDork
Nov. 12, 2015 5:19 p.m.

that suspension movement!

Nick (Not-Stig) Comstock
Nov. 12, 2015 5:44 p.m.
David S. Wallens wrote:
Toyman01 wrote: I hate to be that guy Ed, but Xceler8x beat you to the punch on this one.

I hate to be that guy, but when we post a video to our new Videos page it automatically alerts the world via a message board post.

Video? Yes, we've got a video!

I hate to be that guy, but I just farted.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
Nov. 12, 2015 6:17 p.m.
Nick (Not-Stig) Comstock wrote:
David S. Wallens wrote:
Toyman01 wrote: I hate to be that guy Ed, but Xceler8x beat you to the punch on this one.

I hate to be that guy, but when we post a video to our new Videos page it automatically alerts the world via a message board post.

Video? Yes, we've got a video!

I hate to be that guy, but I just farted.

I sure am glad I wasn't next to that guy.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
Nov. 12, 2015 7:22 p.m.
Nick (Not-Stig) Comstock wrote:
David S. Wallens wrote:
Toyman01 wrote: I hate to be that guy Ed, but Xceler8x beat you to the punch on this one.

I hate to be that guy, but when we post a video to our new Videos page it automatically alerts the world via a message board post.

Video? Yes, we've got a video!

I hate to be that guy, but I just farted.

Thanks for 'fessing up. I was about to blame the dog.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
Nov. 12, 2015 7:22 p.m.
Grtechguy wrote: that suspension movement!

Nuts, huh?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
Nov. 12, 2015 7:25 p.m.
Toyman01 wrote: In reply to David S. Wallens: That makes sense and is probably a good idea.

Allert the media!

And watch for the Video to grow. I know that we already had a video page, but it was kind of lame. The new page will showcase our videos as well as cool stuff that we find. Basically, we're trying to create a place for you to hang out and, well, watch some videos.

If you'd like to suggest a video, drop Ed or I a line.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
Nov. 12, 2015 8:22 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens:

As if we need an excuse to hang out here more.

Thanks for the upgrades. We appreciate them.

bluej
bluej SuperDork
Nov. 12, 2015 8:24 p.m.
dj06482 wrote: I think we each need a trophy truck.

fixt.

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V8 Nissan 240SX Drag Run

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Nov. 9, 2015, 10:08 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/yOkx6sVwS8s
A Ford 5.0 in a Nissan 240SX? This entry into the Grassroots Motorsports $2015 Challenge finished 8th overall. Thanks to our partners, General Tire, Miller Electric, CRC Industries and Pulstar Spark Plugs for making this one of the best events yet. Want to learn more about the Grassroots Motorsports $2000 Challenge and join in the fun? Just go to grassrootsmotorsports.com/challenge.
Show comments
wheels777
Nov. 11, 2015 5:30 a.m.

I really like that car

spin_out
spin_out Reader
Nov. 11, 2015 7:25 a.m.

Nice car, and nice guys. We sat at their table at the banquet.

Does that red light thingy mean our Mustang (right lane) won that battle? Kidding.

Lof8
Lof8 HalfDork
Nov. 11, 2015 7:35 a.m.

yes, one of my favorite cars of the challenge. he drove it there from Texas too!

DDT
Nov. 12, 2015 8:34 p.m.

Thanks guys! So cool to be part of the crowd. Funny that this is robs red light run.

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A Brief Tour Through the $2015 Challenge Field

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Nov. 2, 2015, 9:53 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/oI7nLQ0FEyw
Didn’t make it to Gainesville, Florida, for the Grassroots Motorsports $2015 Challenge Driven by General Tire? The Florida Times-Union created this video tour through the paddock.
Show comments
Stampie
Stampie Reader
Nov. 2, 2015 10:11 a.m.

Man I get a wreaking yard car comment on my Miata? I see how it is.

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
Nov. 2, 2015 11:10 a.m.

In reply to Stampie:

I personally loved your Miata art car.

Spinout007
Spinout007 UberDork
Nov. 2, 2015 11:22 a.m.

Someone told him what E36 M3 and Amy stand for didn't they? No comment what so ever on the LMP themed Miata.

Stampie
Stampie Reader
Nov. 2, 2015 11:56 a.m.
Ed Higginbotham wrote: In reply to Stampie: I personally loved your Miata art car.

Lol yea. Actually I probably did save it from the junkyard. Sub $1000 running Miatas don't just sit on Craigslist for 2 days.

sethmeister4
sethmeister4 SuperDork
Nov. 2, 2015 12:53 p.m.

I guess mine does look like a box stock Maxima...no idea it isn't stock unless you know Maximas. Kinda like that it's a sleeper though. . Good overview video though.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 2:52 p.m.

I want to know a lot more about the Neon!!!

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 3:00 p.m.
dean1484 wrote: I want to know a lot more about the Neon!!!

I heard...440 wedge motor living mostly under the would-be dashboard area.
Fox body Mustang rear axle so therefore a 4 bolt lug pattern which testing now reveals is likely too weak for the power it puts down.

Danny Shields
Nov. 2, 2015 3:20 p.m.

Very cool. I was there, and I still learned things from the video. You guys are amazing!

ckosacranoid
Nov. 4, 2015 7:28 p.m.

dang it...i didnt even get into the background even for my subby wagon and i am bummed dang it...sigh.....

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 4, 2015 7:57 p.m.
Spinout007 wrote: No comment what so ever on the LMP themed Miata.

Nope. No love at all.

I don't think he could have worked any harder to miss it. It's immediately outside of virtually every shot. Some of those shots must have been taken sitting on it's hood.

Can I have those 500 or so hours of my life back?

patgizz
patgizz PowerDork
Nov. 4, 2015 8:00 p.m.
SVreX wrote:
Spinout007 wrote: No comment what so ever on the LMP themed Miata.

Nope. No love at all.

I don't think he could have worked any harder to miss it. It's immediately outside of virtually every shot. Some of those shots must have been taken sitting on it's hood.

Can I have those 500 or so hours of my life back?

if it makes you feel better, i loved your hardtop work and my car is nowhere to be found in the video either.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 4, 2015 8:02 p.m.

In reply to patgizz:

True. And I also loved your Z.

Mutual Admiration Society now adjourned.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
Nov. 4, 2015 8:13 p.m.
SVreX wrote:
Spinout007 wrote: No comment what so ever on the LMP themed Miata.

Can I have those 500 or so hours of my life back?

However, Lincoln bought on Monday and it's brethren got a pretty big billing. Oh, the irony

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 4, 2015 8:35 p.m.

In reply to JohnRW1621:

So, you're saying don't try and things will go better??

Ummm...

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
Nov. 4, 2015 8:44 p.m.

No. Keep trying.

Just irony.

The things you "fabricators" accomplish continues to amaze me.
I'm still serious, I'd buy a fastback top for my Miata if you were taking orders.

All in all, badass!

Spinout007
Spinout007 UberDork
Nov. 5, 2015 11:20 a.m.
SVreX wrote:
Spinout007 wrote: No comment what so ever on the LMP themed Miata.

Can I have those 500 or so hours of my life back?

Can I ask the same... I sincerely hoped that car would have gone over better than it did, I don't think people quite realize the time and effort that went into that car. Makes me really leery of ever doing something like that again.

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Dork
Nov. 5, 2015 11:59 a.m.

NICE ! ! !

Sure wish that there was one of those closer to home . . . gotta franchise that thing out.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
Nov. 5, 2015 12:28 p.m.

In reply to Spinout007:

Hold hope. The print version has not surfaced yet. The picture I linked to above, taken from the GRM homepage could very well be a cover photo. I think it would have enough impact to make passers-by wonder what kind of car that is on the cover since the fastback really changes the look.
Aside from the mag cover, there is also the article's opening page. These pictures are not always that of the winner. Of course, for "visual appeal" you also have some tough competition in the GT Camaro and the Justang.

Also, tell us more here. Who's idea was it to use the "forum words" as the "sponsors"? They are hillarious. My favorite is Shotgun Lug Nut Removal looking like Bilstien.

Remember, this video was not done by GRM. It was done by an outside newspaper observer. He may not have understood the humor of the stickers or even knew the Mazda 787

aussiesmg
aussiesmg MegaDork
Nov. 5, 2015 2:27 p.m.

Yet the Metro gets a mention and it had exactly 15 minutes prep (stickers and a wheels swap) after 2 years of sitting. Even if they did call it a Sprint.

The Mumpkin deserved much more notoriety. A big team effort by a very GRM crew.

and, GSM Publisher?

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
Nov. 5, 2015 2:54 p.m.

Wow that's the first time I've looked closely at the Miata stickers/vinyl. Love it.

Spinout007
Spinout007 UberDork
Nov. 5, 2015 3:05 p.m.

In reply to JohnRW1621:

The idea for the forum references (as far as I know)was the brainchild of SVREX, Mr Thwaite, and Gameboy. When we decided to "go big or go home" with the build I suggested the 787B theme, which was originally shot down. I was quite happy to see the green on the car the last autoX in Gainesville we did testing at. But the forum thing. That was ALL them, and I did just like everyone else did who is a regular on the forum when they saw them. "HOLY CRAP THAT'S AWESOME!"

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
Nov. 5, 2015 3:25 p.m.

Guys, just wanted to drop in and state the obvious that this video is not the event coverage from the magazine. It's from a Florida newspaper. Cool that the event is getting some notoriety outside our circles.

And Paul, don't you worry. Your work has not been even close to unappreciated. The Mumpkin reached a lot of eyes and got a lot of likes on our Facebook page. And we haven't even published the coverage in the magazine yet.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Nov. 5, 2015 4:25 p.m.

Yep, SVReX, Thwaite, and Gameboy knocked it out of the park and did it all mostly without letting the Gainesville part of the team in on it.
I take no offense at the lack of inclusion in the video or treatment of the car. It got 3rd in the Concours and is getting lots of online attention. That's really cool. Heck, that car has been at my house multiple times over the last year and it mostly annoyed my neighbors. Once the hardtop and graphics started going on almost everyone who drove by slowed to a crawl and complimented it. Theres a bunch of cool stuff at every challenge, to be part of one of the cool things is fun. One reporter not including the Mumpkin isn't important. I'm just happy they are talking about the challenge.

dyintorace
dyintorace UberDork
Nov. 5, 2015 4:29 p.m.
Spinout007 wrote: In reply to JohnRW1621: The idea for the forum references (as far as I know)was the brainchild of SVREX, Mr Thwaite, and Gameboy. When we decided to "go big or go home" with the build I suggested the 787B theme, which was originally shot down. I was quite happy to see the green on the car the last autoX in Gainesville we did testing at. But the forum thing. That was ALL them, and I did just like everyone else did who is a regular on the forum when they saw them. "HOLY CRAP THAT'S AWESOME!"

I thought I suggested the 787 theme!

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 5, 2015 5:34 p.m.

In reply to Ed Higginbotham:

No worries here. Just a bit of playful banter.

The car was not finished until the day of the event, and every day has either been racing, raining, or me going to work. I'm waiting for a good day to go out and have decent photoshoot of the car, and I will start a thread to share the love with the online community.

It was done by many in this community, FOR this community, and I would not want anyone to miss some of the detailing just because they couldn't make it to the Challenge.

Hopefully we'll get a nice weekend.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 6, 2015 5:04 a.m.

The last few years I've really missed the cars I would call the "radical builds". I was really happy to see a few new efforts like the Justang and the Insight.

It was also great to see so much new blood. Lots of new faces, and new inspiration!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
Nov. 6, 2015 7:11 a.m.

I can't be too upset the Mumpkin didn't get coverage from the TV station...on one hand it was visually spectacular, which should appeal to anyone; but on the other hand it was covered in inside jokes that are indecipherable and confusing to an outsider You have to be a gearhead to even get the 787b reference. That's no problem for the goal of doing well in the concours, which it did.

The Shotgun sticker was my idea BTW

Petrolburner
Petrolburner HalfDork
Nov. 6, 2015 1:48 p.m.

Really a pretty nice video for a civilian!

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 7, 2015 7:46 a.m.

In reply to Petrolburner:

I agree. It's a pretty nice video.

Dan Scanlan is an automotive journalist for the Florida Sun Times in Jacksonville. I spoke to him for a while at the Challenge. He's been to many of the Challenges. Is that what you meant by "civilian"?

ckosacranoid
Nov. 8, 2015 2:19 a.m.

i am very bummed, i did not even make a background shot even anywhere in the video...sigh....and there where lots of shots over by the booth but no wagon...sigh...

evildky
evildky SuperDork
Nov. 10, 2015 12:03 p.m.

I didn't realize Spkorb (Sean Puffy Korb) was there. Haven't seen that guy since the suprang.

DDT
DDT New Reader
Nov. 12, 2015 8:37 p.m.

In reply to sethmeister4:

I'm now proud I caught the odd little details on that manifold. That seems like a cool use able 4dsc

DDT
DDT New Reader
Nov. 14, 2015 2:03 p.m.

In reply to sethmeister4:

I'm now proud I caught the odd little details on that manifold. That seems like a cool use able 4dsc

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Blindingly Fast Beetle

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 28, 2015, 8:16 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/rfbksAynLsw
This wild creation won the Grassroots Motorsports $2015 Challenge. Andrew Nelson, known for posting 10-second Challenge drag times, broke the ladder bar on his V8 Volkswagen Beetle on his very first pass. After hours of welding, Andrew and family had mended the suspension well enough for one more run. They made that single run count with a 10.396-second time, earning them a healthy win in the drag racing portion of the Challenge.
Show comments
captdownshift
captdownshift UltraDork
Oct. 28, 2015 8:55 a.m.

I absolutely love that the winner this year is a beetle. Proof that it's still an amazing platform for cost effective fun and performance.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
Oct. 28, 2015 9:06 a.m.

What front suspension is on that Beetle?

The_Jed
The_Jed UberDork
Oct. 28, 2015 9:07 a.m.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
Oct. 28, 2015 9:13 a.m.

How did that fare in the autocross? It looks like it would be awful, so I'm surprised to see it in 1st place overall. It must have a second wheel/tire setup at a minimum, right?

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
Oct. 28, 2015 9:21 a.m.

They actually placed 6th in the autocross. Not bad at all.

sanyarcosean
Oct. 28, 2015 9:30 a.m.
What front suspension is on that Beetle?

The Beetle used the front suspension from Andy and I's 2004 Challenge car which was the 77 Nova. Kind of fitting that part of the car that started it all was along for the ride when he won! Nothing about that front clip is stock however....

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UberDork
Oct. 28, 2015 9:33 a.m.
Ed Higginbotham wrote: They actually placed 6th in the autocross. Not bad at all.

Nice! Looking forward to reading more about it.

simontibbett
simontibbett New Reader
Oct. 28, 2015 9:36 a.m.

That is really really cool! haha Beetle FTW

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
Oct. 28, 2015 10:43 a.m.

It has a Beetle body, therefor it is a Beetle.

Just like the Ford, Chevy's and Toyota ARE because of their engines and front fascia in NASCAR.

Just feeling grumpy this morning.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 PowerDork
Oct. 28, 2015 11:20 a.m.

Wow, that thing left the line HARD! Love to know what the 60' time was.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Oct. 28, 2015 11:56 a.m.

In reply to 1988RedT2:

1.455 IIRC

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
Oct. 28, 2015 1:08 p.m.
ProDarwin wrote: How did that fare in the autocross? It *looks* like it would be awful, so I'm surprised to see it in 1st place overall. It must have a second wheel/tire setup at a minimum, right?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/wX2qPDuK60Y

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
Oct. 28, 2015 1:15 p.m.

43.0 is an excellent time, less than a second off of FTD. Who was the driver on that run?

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Reader
Oct. 28, 2015 1:21 p.m.
jstein77 wrote: 43.0 is an excellent time, less than a second off of FTD. Who was the driver on that run?

Alan McCrispin. (I think that is how you spell his name)

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Oct. 28, 2015 1:23 p.m.
jstein77 wrote: 43.0 is an excellent time, less than a second off of FTD. Who was the driver on that run?

More than one second. The PACC Beetle was right in the mix with all the top cars then Texas A&M put up a DOMINANT time that left the field behind. Still massively impressive to build a 10 second drag car that can hang with some pretty stout autocross hardware.

drainoil
drainoil Reader
Oct. 28, 2015 1:47 p.m.

Would like to see this face off against Farmtruck's Beetle

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 28, 2015 3:15 p.m.

The sixth place finish was deceptive.

I was in 2nd place with an extremely well sorted Miata on non-DOT legal rubber and suspension that would rival national champions. I also had a driver with 3 national championships who had driven the car before the event.

When I realized Andrew was only 0.7 seconds off of me in the autocross, I knew he had won, because I knew I couldn't be within 0.7 seconds of him on the drags.

spin_out
spin_out Reader
Oct. 29, 2015 8:05 a.m.

Wrap your head around that. The bug was 7 tenths behind a Miata that would dominate (probably by a couple of seconds) at a local autocross. Then it puts down a 10.3 second drag time. I can't think of any super car at any price that could do that.

Oh, I believe the car it bested in the drag run was Sean Culkin's car that ran a 12.1 at some point.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Oct. 29, 2015 8:25 a.m.
SVreX wrote: The sixth place finish was deceptive. I was in 2nd place with an extremely well sorted Miata on non-DOT legal rubber and suspension that would rival national champions. I also had a driver with 3 national championships who had driven the car before the event. When I realized Andrew was only 0.7 seconds off of me in the autocross, I knew he had won, because I knew I couldn't be within 0.7 seconds of him on the drags.

Yep, his performance numbers were brutal. He left no doubt who earned the win this year.

2002maniac
Oct. 29, 2015 12:16 p.m.

What made the A&M miata so dang fast at the auto-x? I know the mumpkin is very well sorted so I was a bit shocked to see the A&M car beat up on it so badly.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Oct. 29, 2015 12:27 p.m.
2002maniac wrote: What made the A&M miata so dang fast at the auto-x? I know the mumpkin is very well sorted so I was a bit shocked to see the A&M car beat up on it so badly.

The Driver, power, sorting, and seat time! A&M Dudes a stud.

Our car coughed its way through runs 1 and 2 so our driver only got 3 clean runs. Our drivers a compete and total bad ass as well but he has a total now of 8 runs in a clean running car and is very methodical and works his way up to the limit. He was knocking 1/2 second + off of each run but he never was able to get it to lose traction so he was still below its limits. He has now put 11 runs on that car and never hit a cone. I think our car and driver had a win in it but we were not able to put it together that day and A&M did. Oh yeah, and at least 50hp extra didn't hurt.

Robbie
Robbie Dork
Oct. 29, 2015 12:29 p.m.
2002maniac wrote: What made the A&M miata so dang fast at the auto-x? I know the mumpkin is very well sorted so I was a bit shocked to see the A&M car beat up on it so badly.

Corn + Turbo. TONS of weight reduction. These are just my guesses after perusing the paddock around both cars.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 29, 2015 5:51 p.m.
2002maniac wrote: What made the A&M miata so dang fast at the auto-x? I know the mumpkin is very well sorted so I was a bit shocked to see the A&M car beat up on it so badly.

A&M and I spent a lot of time exchanging notes. Bottom line, they had what we did not (but we also had what they did not). We paddocked side by side, and I think we both learned from each other.

Ryan (team leader) and I ending up agreeing- put the 2 cars together, and we'd have a perfect car.

We outdid them on suspension, but they beat us on power. We were running a 1.6L, they had a 1.8L. The engines are not the biggest difference in of themselves, but the 1.8L permits a vastly improved turbo setup because of the availability of the downturn exhaust manifold, which allows for a bottom mount turbo- more space, better pipe routing, no more boiling brakes, etc. They had a much bigger turbo.

But they also had the tuning down. We both had megasquirts, but in honesty, I never learned the basics of tuning the megasquirt. We were getting such bad info management from the squirt's interpretation of the sensor inputs that we finally basically shut down all inputs, and ran only off the base map. Our best times in both the autoX and the drags were run with no input at all from the onboard sensors.

Also, I have to agree with Mr. Joshua. Gotta give credit where credit is due- seat time, seat time, seat time.

Our car was much more stable and predictable. We had a lot more suspension then they did, and I also still like our tire choices much better. It ran flat, never did anything badly. We just didn't give our driver enough power to work with, or enough time to maximize it. This was a team time management loss, not a car loss (In other words, my fault, not the car's).

We played the game more like methodical old guys. We did everything in very repeatable ways. We honed our effort a piece at a time. A&M was a bit more wild and raucous. When the time came to go for broke, they pulled out all the stops, and it paid off. I applaud their effort, but am not sure what they did is very repeatable. (I remember 1 team mate running off from our conversation saying, "Oh no- I think they may be running at dangerous boost levels!)

A&M had never run the 1/4 mile. 1/8, but not 1/4. Their car was frightening at 100 mph (Ours was just getting started). We traded notes in the paddock, and they successfully made some improvements on track. Bravo!

Our win over them in the Concours made them worry a bit that we might have knocked them off the silver medal level of the overall. I wasn't worried about it- I missed 1st place, and saw no difference between 2nd and 3rd.

I don't know if they gave it their all. I know I held back. The math said Andrew had won, and I continued competing, but did not see the point in blowing up the car if an overall win was not possible. I know how to beat them next time. I don't know if they know how to beat me.

I wouldn't call it a beating. It was a neck-and-neck chase between both of us throughout the day. We were extremely close until their last autocross run where they pulled out all of the stops, and we lead them most of the night on the drags. Bottom line- they beat us. But they did not beat up on us.

I hope A&M will chime in. I'd be interested in hearing their spin on this, and if they agree with me (or think I'm full of hot air!)

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 29, 2015 5:53 p.m.

In reply to Robbie:

Forgot weight- I'm pretty sure our car was lighter. 1850 lbs wet last time I weighed it.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
Oct. 29, 2015 6:27 p.m.

The A&M guys have a world class test facility too. Not sure what the rules are for them accessing it, but it's concrete as far as the eye can see. Amazing place to AX.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Oct. 29, 2015 6:46 p.m.
mazdeuce wrote: The A&M guys have a world class test facility too. Not sure what the rules are for them accessing it, but it's concrete as far as the eye can see. Amazing place to AX.

Jealous. There are hardly even any corners in my town, much less any place where we could test a car.

unevolved
unevolved SuperDork
Oct. 29, 2015 8:25 p.m.
mazdeuce wrote: The A&M guys have a world class test facility too. Not sure what the rules are for them accessing it, but it's concrete as far as the eye can see. Amazing place to AX.

Right now, the access is actually pretty limited. I heard some jackass students decided they needed to do burnouts, and all student groups lost access to the big section. A buddy of mine was at the last event, said it was just a small out-and-back.

Rmon
Rmon New Reader
Oct. 30, 2015 11:55 p.m.

I'm the Texas A&M Driver and team manager. First of all, we do have (some) access to some pretty awesome facilities, but we had next to no chassis tuning done on our car since we were too busy making sure the stoopid turbo was working :/. I had only one autox worth of seat time in the car on those tires, not a ton of seat time. Our spring rates were something like 350/250 on crappy KYB shocks. We have a lot to gain on suspension, and are also looking to move to a 15x10 from 15x8 wheel for next year, which should net a ton of extra grip on 275 Hoosiers. Additionally, we ran 112mph on our fastest drag pass, and that was with a missed shift and 17.5psi of boost (I believe we can run 20psi for a pass or two :)). We are going to spend the next year getting some practice at the strip. We are never gonna do great in the concours, but I'd like to at least get the car more finished-looking as far as paint goes before next time.

edit: Also, our first two autox runs were spent struggling with power. We realized our timing had been messed up, and we were somehow running around 15+ degrees retarded depsite having checked it before the challenge. We ran a 41.9 with this retarded timing, which also should have been good for FTD. Obviously resetting it helped (a ton), and we actually had to turn the boost back down after resetting the timing since 2nd gear became unusable :0

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 31, 2015 9:05 a.m.

In reply to Rmon:

DLD
DLD New Reader
Oct. 31, 2015 8:33 p.m.

Do either of you Miata teams have any idea what kind of power output you're getting? Just curious.

Rmon
Rmon New Reader
Oct. 31, 2015 9:06 p.m.

In reply to DLD:

We're estimating around 300 crank HP based on what others have made at similar boost levels with similar turbo setups. But no dyno time or anything for us

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 31, 2015 9:16 p.m.

In reply to DLD:

The math says we were only about 158 hp at the wheels, 190 hp at the flywheel.

A&M was more. I'd say about 215.

Dietcoke
Dietcoke Reader
Oct. 31, 2015 11:00 p.m.

And that car was built for $2015? Lol.

No.

grafmiata
grafmiata SuperDork
Oct. 31, 2015 11:37 p.m.
Dietcoke wrote: And that car was built for $2015? Lol. No.

And here we go again...

DLD
DLD New Reader
Oct. 31, 2015 11:44 p.m.

Wow, that's pretty impressive if accurate!

Rmon wrote:

In reply to DLD:

We're estimating around 300 crank HP based on what others have made at similar boost levels with similar turbo setups. But no dyno time or anything for us

DLD
DLD New Reader
Oct. 31, 2015 11:47 p.m.

I don't know why people find it so hard to believe a lot of HP can be had for cheap. It's all about how much actual work you are willing to do yourself instead of paying someone to do it, and how much time you are willing to invest in learning what to do. None of this is rocket science!

ckquote>Dietcoke wrote:

And that car was built for $2015? Lol.

No.

DLD
DLD New Reader
Oct. 31, 2015 11:51 p.m.

Yours is a 1.6 liter, and heirs a 1.8liter?

SVreX wrote: In reply to DLD: The math says we were only about 158 hp at the wheels, 190 hp at the flywheel. A&M was more. I'd say about 215.
Dietcoke
Dietcoke Reader
Nov. 1, 2015 1:37 a.m.
DLD wrote: I don't know why people find it so hard to believe a lot of HP can be had for cheap. It's all about how much actual work you are willing to do yourself instead of paying someone to do it, and how much time you are willing to invest in learning what to do. None of this is rocket science! ckquote>Dietcoke wrote: And that car was built for $2015? Lol. No.

Not hard to believe in the least, but I can also guarantee that car has more then $2015 of equity in it, unless you're using some kind of counting cars or american pickers $ logic.

"We talked him down to $50 for his priceless $2200 piece..."

I get the intent of the series, but lets call a duck a duck here.

wheels777
Nov. 1, 2015 4:14 a.m.
Dietcoke wrote: ...... but lets call a duck a duck here.

Okay, you are not willing (most common reason why people doubt) or able (I apologize if that is your situation) to work hard enough to build a car for $2015 that performs at a high level.

These cars are built with cubic sweat, not cubic dollars. Most doubters are too lazy to come to the 'free entry for spectators' event and are far less likely to pick up tools to work hard enough to do it. Quack like a duck, walk like a duck...probably a duck.

Instead of belly aching about what you think can't be done, why don't you get off the keyboard and spin some wrenches. There are many folks on here willing to help others learn to do it more cost effectively. But if you show up with a closed mind, you can't succeed.

Until you attend an event or try to build a car with an extreme budget limit, and doubt those who are putting in the effort, you're a duck. Hope this satisfies your previously posted request.

Dietcoke
Dietcoke Reader
Nov. 1, 2015 4:20 a.m.
wheels777 wrote:
Dietcoke wrote: ...... but lets call a duck a duck here.

Okay, you're not willing (most common reason why people doubt) or able (I apologize if that is your situation) to work hard enough to build a car for $2015 that performs at a high level.

These cars are built with cubic sweat, not cubic dollars. Most doubters are too lazy to come to the 'free entry for spectators' event and are far less likely to pick up tools to work hard enough to do it. Quack like a duck, walk like a duck...probably a duck.

Instead of belly aching about what you think can't be done, why don't you get off the keyboard and spin some wrenches. There are many folks on here willing to help others learn to do it more cost effectively. But if you show up with a closed mind, you can't succeed.

Until you attend an event or try to build a car with an extreme budget limit, and doubt those who are putting in the effort, you're a duck.

Surely I've never turned a wrench in my life, that must be it.

Surely I've never attended a race

Surely I have no budget.

Surely you have nothing better to do but making an attack on my character, when you can neither disprove my point, nor know anything about me, what I've built, or my personal capabilities.

wheels777
Nov. 1, 2015 4:28 a.m.
Dietcoke wrote:
wheels777 wrote:
Dietcoke wrote: ...... but lets call a duck a duck here.

Okay, you're not willing (most common reason why people doubt) or able (I apologize if that is your situation) to work hard enough to build a car for $2015 that performs at a high level.

These cars are built with cubic sweat, not cubic dollars. Most doubters are too lazy to come to the 'free entry for spectators' event and are far less likely to pick up tools to work hard enough to do it. Quack like a duck, walk like a duck...probably a duck.

Instead of belly aching about what you think can't be done, why don't you get off the keyboard and spin some wrenches. There are many folks on here willing to help others learn to do it more cost effectively. But if you show up with a closed mind, you can't succeed.

Until you attend an event or try to build a car with an extreme budget limit, and doubt those who are putting in the effort, you're a duck.

Surely I've never turned a wrench in my life, that must be it.

Surely I've never attended a race

Surely I have no budget.

Surely you have nothing better to do but making an attack on my character, when you can neither disprove my point, nor know anything about me.

Your previous posts made your position clear.

Dietcoke
Dietcoke Reader
Nov. 1, 2015 4:29 a.m.
wheels777 wrote:
Dietcoke wrote:
wheels777 wrote:
Dietcoke wrote: ...... but lets call a duck a duck here.

Okay, you're not willing (most common reason why people doubt) or able (I apologize if that is your situation) to work hard enough to build a car for $2015 that performs at a high level.

These cars are built with cubic sweat, not cubic dollars. Most doubters are too lazy to come to the 'free entry for spectators' event and are far less likely to pick up tools to work hard enough to do it. Quack like a duck, walk like a duck...probably a duck.

Instead of belly aching about what you think can't be done, why don't you get off the keyboard and spin some wrenches. There are many folks on here willing to help others learn to do it more cost effectively. But if you show up with a closed mind, you can't succeed.

Until you attend an event or try to build a car with an extreme budget limit, and doubt those who are putting in the effort, you're a duck.

Surely I've never turned a wrench in my life, that must be it.

Surely I've never attended a race

Surely I have no budget.

Surely you have nothing better to do but making an attack on my character, when you can neither disprove my point, nor know anything about me.

Your previous posts made your position clear.

Glad we can agree on something.

wheels777
Nov. 1, 2015 4:32 a.m.
Dietcoke wrote: And that car was built for $2015? Lol. No.

Your words, not mine.

Dietcoke
Dietcoke Reader
Nov. 1, 2015 4:36 a.m.
wheels777 wrote:
Dietcoke wrote: And that car was built for $2015? Lol. No.

Your words, not mine.

Truthful words.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 1, 2015 6:51 a.m.

In reply to Dietcoke:

Dude- stop. You are wrong.

Let me tell you how I handled my own doubts...

My first Challenge was in 2004. I saw cars that I was confident were cheating, and it disappointed me, because I really had held it to the budget. I placed 13th out of 70 something, but still had those nagging doubts.

The next year, I decided to do something about it. When I arrived, I ID'ed the top 5 or 6 cars I doubted. Then I spent some time investigating. I met the owners, talked with them, heard their stories, reviewed their build books, even crawled under their cars. I came to believe that the only difference between them and me had nothing to do with money, cheating, or lying. It had to do with the fact that they had more creativity, talent, and time invested in their cars than I did. That's all.

I became a believer, and I started putting a lot more in myself.

This year, after 11 years of effort, I made the podium. If you'd like to argue about it, or try to downplay my effort, that's fine. You can join the crowd of other doubters, but you are missing out on a really incredible experience and opportunity.

If you come, you will understand. Until them, your critical accusations are not very welcome (though they are expected, and understood).

BTW, one of the cars I doubted was Andrew's (wheels777). There is probably no one who has scrutinized him more carefully than me. I've watched him closely for years, and am absolutely convinced he is the real deal. And I have learned a ton from him. He has built 180* exhaust systems from scrap pipe, lapped valves with a belt sander, built a 5 window coupe out of a VW Bug, and built incredible machines in a barn with a dirt floor.

So, join the party! You'll be amazed. But please stop pissing in the punch bowl.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Nov. 1, 2015 7:14 a.m.

In reply to Dietcoke:

You called a man a liar without knowing anything about him and are insulted when he tries to guess why you don't believe him?

What do you doubt? Try asking questions on specifics instead of dismissing the entire build as impossible for $2015. Wheels777 keeps a very detailed budget of his builds.

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
Nov. 1, 2015 7:58 a.m.
Dietcoke wrote:
wheels777 wrote:
Dietcoke wrote: ...... but lets call a duck a duck here.

Okay, you're not willing (most common reason why people doubt) or able (I apologize if that is your situation) to work hard enough to build a car for $2015 that performs at a high level.

These cars are built with cubic sweat, not cubic dollars. Most doubters are too lazy to come to the 'free entry for spectators' event and are far less likely to pick up tools to work hard enough to do it. Quack like a duck, walk like a duck...probably a duck.

Instead of belly aching about what you think can't be done, why don't you get off the keyboard and spin some wrenches. There are many folks on here willing to help others learn to do it more cost effectively. But if you show up with a closed mind, you can't succeed.

Until you attend an event or try to build a car with an extreme budget limit, and doubt those who are putting in the effort, you're a duck.

Surely I've never turned a wrench in my life, that must be it.

Surely I've never attended a race

Surely I have no budget.

Surely you have nothing better to do but making an attack on my character, when you can neither disprove my point, nor know anything about me, what I've built, or my personal capabilities.

I may have missed something here- but it appears that you think it's ok to attack other people based on what you think, but it's not ok for others to do it to you. Based on that alone, it seems quite fair to completely ignore you.

But I also want to point out- is there more than $2015 in equity in the cars? Depends on what you call equity- if it's the sum of the value of the individual parts- no. Having done it myself, too- I do think that people are keeping the parts cheap. If you can't find those parts at those prices- that's your problem. If you base the equity on the value of the parts all assembled in a car- no question the cars are more valuable than $2015. Nothing wrong with that.

Again, instead assuming that you are correct, go down and check it out for yourself. You seem to be a builder. Seem to be capable of making it. It's not rocket science- it's just a constraint that one must deal with.

But, if you insist on questioning the character of the competitors- which you clearly have- and can't take it, well, I would just suggest to go away. You, as an individual, will not stop this game. Unless you enjoy being angry.

sanyarcosean
Nov. 2, 2015 12:04 p.m.

HOLY THREADJACKING BATMAN!!!

Started out as a thread on the Nelsons Killer Beetle, transitioned into The Miata Self-Love Support Group, then made its way to the once a year "This is B.S. I don't know how to get good deals or do hard work so I'll just flame the guys that can" post.

Nicely done, I see we have learned to multi-task...

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 12:12 p.m.

In reply to sanyarcosean:

You're right.

I apologize.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 12:17 p.m.

In reply to sanyarcosean:

It was definitely missing a "I don't like what you guys are posting" post. Without one, no tangent heavy thread is complete. Thank you for adding one.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet UltraDork
Nov. 2, 2015 12:51 p.m.

I usually keep my mouth shut when this stuff comes up, but this made me mad.

Until you build your own fast car for short money, you are NOT going to understand. Try it instead of bashing others and throwing around accusations. It 100% CAN be done, given you want to put the time and effort in.

I know Mr. Nelson. I have seen his "shop" (aka, his barn), his inventory, and he is NOT cheating by any means. This is a guy who designs his own stuff from other people's cheap or discarded race parts, abandoned projects, and scrap metal. He counts every single ounce of weight on the car to calculate what he needs for power from the engines he assembles, and these engines are often put together from old circle track parts that are picked up for pennies on the dollar. He scours Craigslist and other places for cheap cars and parts, and has amassed an impressive inventory of dirt cheap speed parts. What he can't buy he fabricates, basically from piles of scrap. I've seen it all, and he's the real deal.

When I started attending the Challenge, I thought the same thing: there's no way these guys are going this fast for under $2k. Fast forward to today: I bought a Shelby Dodge CSX for $100 on this very forum, and it was filled with parts. I spent another $60 buying a guy's entire basement full of Turbo Dodge parts, and sold most of it except the stuff I wanted to keep, and I traded some of it for parts I needed. The car itself was a rusty pile, but I cobbled together patch panels from discarded scrap from other projects. At my last check: I have around $22 into the whole build. Not $22k, TWENTY TWO DOLLARS. When the car is done, it will not only be fast, but it will be well under that $20xx budget. While I have been lagging on the build, it should be carving the cones next season.

There are many other teams, like the SDAC guys, the Westside crew, Ed Malle, and many others that have proven that you CAN go this fast on this budget, and we continue to do it every single year.

So, instead of saying you can't, start learning that you CAN. Go to one of these events and see for yourself, and maybe you will catch the bug like so many of us have.

ncjay
ncjay Dork
Nov. 2, 2015 1:04 p.m.

I gotta tell ya, I thought pretty much there was no way you could build some of these cars for $2000, but I've spent enough time in Pull a Part yards to know you can build one kick ass vehicle if you have the knowledge and put the effort in. I've seen high school kids shove V-8s into places they aren't supposed to be because they didn't know it couldn't be done. Turbos get mounted on engines they were never designed for. Computers get reprogrammed to make it all work. It's all about knowledge. Also helps to be able to weld or know a guy.

TRoglodyte
TRoglodyte SuperDork
Nov. 2, 2015 1:33 p.m.

From what I have read on the interwebz Wheels777 has the most legal VW in these here United States. Observation from the cheap seats. Fahrvergnugen.

patgizz
patgizz PowerDork
Nov. 2, 2015 2:02 p.m.

i feel the need to defend Mr Nelson, but think he put it out there just fine and i don't need to create drama.

if you don't think it can be done, try or don't. but don't come around throwing ignorance around at those who did/do it. this was my first event. i yanked my car out of a field june 1st and in 4 months i changed the engine, built new fuel system, did bodywork, painted it inside and out, new cooling system, new exhaust, reconfigured the interior to fit me better, mounted new tires, and did a ton of other stuff. the car never left the garage or the concrete pad in front of it in that time. nobody touched it but me. nobody spun a wrench, nobody picked up sandpaper, nobody helped. i had right around $1780 into the car and ended up not using my nitrous system at the event so if you take that $400 off i'm below $1400 per the budget rules. I could have actually made a paper trail to show i gave $100 for the car but i put it in the budget spreadsheet at $600 because i felt that was more in the spirit of the competition. I scrounged. I got the car out from under a tree with a blown engine. the hood was warped. i picked up stuff on trash night to make parts with. i took other people's castoff parts and fixed them or remade them into stuff i could use. i went to swap meets. i bought stuff at home depot and made it into car parts. i've never autocrossed in my life and had no idea what to expect. i was my own pit crew, driver, mechanic, videographer, truck driver, and i finished 11th out of the non exhibition cars this year. i've been doing a lot with a little for years and finally made it, and doubt i'll ever miss a year from here out.

so before you doubt, come join us next year. otherwise, don't, nobody will miss you. but if you do try, come and have fun with us. i will be there next year.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 2:19 p.m.

I'll take a little bit of the other side.
Wheels should take it as a little bit of a compliment that people do not believe.
I been there, I've seen, I have had it proven to me. But, this is not the kind of thing that you see at the average car event. These builds are completely unique. This man is completely unique.
Along with that uniqueness comes disbelief.

Those who have seen, know.
An entire magazine stakes it's reputation on the authenticity of these builds.
The amazement comes from the fact that it seems impossible and let me tell you, it is amazing.

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 2:24 p.m.

In reply to patgizz:

One of the lessons I think is being learned is people are better at asking "why" for various mods.

Quite a few years ago, over on miata.net, I challenged the notion that one needed to spend $20k on a Miata to trophy. Got a LOT of flack over it- including someone "outing" me- as I also challenged what's the point of spending all of that money to get a jacket.

People who have done the challenge, on the other hand, do a really good job of understanding the real needs- understanding what a $2000 shock is vs. ones you can get for a lot cheaper. And knowing if it's really worth it in terms of going fast. Creativity is worth more than just spending money. Going fast on a budget is much more rewarding than just spending money- heck, it's really great to be legally faster than a big buck spender.

But that's how I see it.

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan HalfDork
Nov. 2, 2015 7:37 p.m.

ugh. I hope the thread doesn't get shut down. Here is something more positive at a $150 buy it now price plus the $200 you have to pay a broker. http://www.copart.com/us/Lot/28689525?searchId=278874662

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Nov. 2, 2015 9:02 p.m.

In reply to nutherjrfan:

A Super Beetle with chemical/ biohazard damage???

I'm not sure what to say...

admc58
admc58 Reader
Nov. 2, 2015 10:22 p.m.

So...Back to Mr. Nelson's Beetle...

This year the Nelsons had good tires on all 4 corners of the car and the family put a ton of extra time in getting the front suspension to have a better roll center and alignment with the resulting front grip being astounding. In-fact, it was so good that I had big trouble keeping the rear end behind me and spun twice...Once almost hitting a pole...(I may not have told Andy that..oops)...I had to downshift and apply FULL throttle to get the car to slide past the pole sideways.

That exterior video is the first that I have seen of the Bug and it looks so very composed...On the inside It was a handful as I was balancing HUGE power, a HIGH stall converter, MONSTER front grip, and Rear LADDER bar suspension...The natural balance of the bug on cornering was for the tail to drift out on turn-in and then go further with the application of any significant power.

Andrew Nelson, thank you again for your confidence, trust, and friendship in letting me drive for you. As always you and your family are the class act and standard to which all of us aspire. God Bless.

Alan McCrispin

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Race Vans Are Awesome

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 20, 2015, 3:37 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/h-j29ozp_yM
Yet another interesting form of automotive enthusiasm has surfaced in Japan: D-VAN Grand Prix. This group of drivers focuses their modifying energy on Dodge Ram vans, and they run the snot out of them.
Show comments
ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
Oct. 20, 2015 3:50 p.m.

This is the video with the extremely ironic twist involving a Japanese man with a U.S. Air Force shirt!

SyntheticBlinkerFluid
Oct. 20, 2015 4:27 p.m.

This isn't a new trend, but is awesome none the less.

Also I think he's wearing that USAF t-shirt because most of those vans were at the USAF base there in Japan.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
Oct. 20, 2015 5:38 p.m.

In reply to SyntheticBlinkerFluid:

I believe that's true. However, the irony exists!

drainoil
drainoil Reader
Oct. 20, 2015 6:53 p.m.

Wonder why they love the Dodge vans in particular? Is there something about the stock suspensions on them that are easier to mod vs say a fullsize GM or FORD van of that era?

Wall-e
Wall-e MegaDork
Oct. 20, 2015 6:54 p.m.

In reply to drainoil:

Because the U.S. shipped a bunch of them there.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn PowerDork
Oct. 20, 2015 7:09 p.m.

They explain it right at the beginning of the video - they had the vans and were using them at the racetrack to ferry people around, and one day a couple guys started racing each other.

I don't know if it's still a thing over there, but for some time they were crazy for customized Chevy Astro vans.

pointofdeparture
Oct. 20, 2015 7:15 p.m.

IIRC the Dodge vans are also unibody instead of body-on-frame.

Old video, but still totally awesome.

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
Oct. 20, 2015 7:34 p.m.

The Astro was very popular in Japan. It is rumored that the first Scion xB shape was modeled by the Astro.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
Oct. 20, 2015 8:49 p.m.

We've been freaking on Dajibans for a while here.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
Oct. 20, 2015 9:42 p.m.
Appleseed wrote: We've been freaking on Dajibans for a while here.

Yep. That's why we posted the video.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory UltraDork
Oct. 21, 2015 5:26 a.m.
David S. Wallens wrote:
Appleseed wrote: We've been freaking on Dajibans for a while here.

Yep. That's why we posted the video.

Not only that but it's kinda the epitome of this entire GRM site isn't it?

edizzle89
edizzle89 HalfDork
Oct. 21, 2015 9:43 a.m.

im just waiting to see when the first dodge van will enter the challenge

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Meet Dez White's Turbo Porsche

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 19, 2015, 10:20 a.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/tWiPt1Qm3W0
Dez White has taken hits from some of the best in the NFL. You may remember him receiving for the Chicago Bears and Atlanta Falcons. Turns out he’s also a big car nut, and he brought his turbo Porsche to our 2015 Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge. The bad news is that Dez only completed half of the first timed session before an off-track excursion sent him into the catch-fence at the “Climbing Esses.” Even so, with only a few laps under his belt, he finished in an incredible 6th place overall, and was the fastest Porsche in attendance with a 1:54.411 lap time.
Show comments
Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
Oct. 19, 2015 11:46 a.m.

Here's a shot of it before while we were shooting this video.

And then roughly half an hour later we were unfortunately met with this sight. Luckily, Dez walked away unscathed. But that's a very quick part of the track and he made it over the tire wall and into the catch fence.

captdownshift
captdownshift UltraDork
Oct. 19, 2015 12:29 p.m.

Incredibly nice and great man as well. He (and then GA Tech OC Ralph Friedgan) abused me on a Thursday night in Atlanta pretty bad when I was a safety at Maryland. Dez showed nothing but respect while racking up over 100 yards receiving in the first half.

Harvey
Harvey Dork
Oct. 19, 2015 12:38 p.m.

That crash.

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One Loaded Lotus

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 15, 2015, 12:59 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/atF7QxYAjBM
We caught up with Matt Glagola and his Lotus Elise an SCCA Match Tour event in Moultrie, Georgia earlier this year.
Show comments

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3, 2, 1, Liftoff

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 14, 2015, 4 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/wxoDqJEGkos
Ride with Steve Griffiths as he wrestles his V8 MGB down the drag strip at the $2014 Challenge.
Show comments
SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 14, 2015 4:02 p.m.

I don't think that's Steve. I think it's Vince.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Associate Editor
Oct. 15, 2015 8:14 a.m.

Looks like Steve to me.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 12:01 p.m.

I'd need water tight underpants to drive that car like that, in fear I'd ruin the rest of my outfit.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 12:15 p.m.

Wow, that run was awful. I hope he got his suspension figured out for this year.

NordicSaab
NordicSaab Reader
Oct. 15, 2015 12:44 p.m.

That looked terrifying.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 1:07 p.m.

I was in line behind him for that run.

I can't prove it with a dashcam video, but I am confident that launch was a 1 wheel launch.

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Physical Spec Miata Finish at NASA Eastern States Championships

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 14, 2015, 2:46 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/TkPxT_3qTTQ
Ride onboard with Mike Drennan for the last few turns of the NASA Spec Miata Eastern Championships. Drennan ended up being awarded the win after Hernan Palermo (black car) was disqualified for on-track contact.
Show comments
rcutclif
rcutclif Dork
Oct. 14, 2015 1:50 p.m.

wow, had my nerves tingling just watching the video. I think the guy in the silver car got the raw end of the deal. hopefully didn't receive too much damage/get hurt.

Yikes driving next to the black car acting like that on the straight.

The Hoff
The Hoff UltraDork
Oct. 14, 2015 1:55 p.m.

Palermo is a dick. Pushed off the Silver car and tried to push off the other car. Glad he was disqualified.

Desmond
Desmond Reader
Oct. 14, 2015 1:58 p.m.

Got what he had coming. All it takes is one bad driver to make an entire race more dangerous than it needs to be.

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
Oct. 14, 2015 2:16 p.m.

Yeah, he deserved disqualification after those bonehead moves on the straight.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Oct. 14, 2015 2:27 p.m.

Anything happen to Clements? I hope he got out with just a bruised ego.

Palermo is a dick

fornetti14
Oct. 14, 2015 3:17 p.m.

DQ & hopefully sit out for 6 months. Start increasing the fines/penalties and maybe the crap will stop.

amg_rx7
amg_rx7 SuperDork
Oct. 14, 2015 3:20 p.m.

For what it's worth....
http://mazdaracers.com/topic/5375-nasa-east-coast-championship-who-will-winupdatesnewssmack/?p=81866

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 6:46 a.m.

"i have had a few days to reflect on what took place at VIR. i understand everyones position in the matter and feel 100% responsible for my actions. i dont frequent these forums and dont usually have the time or interest to pay too much attention to all the latest gossip. i am still learning as a driver, i apolagize to blake and drennan for what took place.

hernan palermo"

First step in correcting you are being an shiny happy person is admitting you are an shiny happy person.

icaneat50eggs
Oct. 15, 2015 9:26 a.m.

I see three acceptable punishments. He can choose 1. Lifetime ban from the organization

  1. Immediately walk into the paddock. Push his car to the far side and set it on fire.

  2. Every driver in the race gets to line up and nut kick him

Type Q
Type Q Dork
Oct. 15, 2015 9:47 a.m.
icaneat50eggs wrote: I see three acceptable punishments. He can choose 1. Lifetime ban from the organization 2. Immediately walk into the paddock. Push his car to the far side and set it on fire. 3. Every driver in the race gets to line up and nut kick him

I would say one year ban from driving. Competition license only restored if he shows up as a worker for a minimum of 20 weekends does whatever is assigned to him without protest.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 9:53 a.m.

. #13 should have is licence taken for a while and send him back to drivers school. Drives like a D-Bag. "Back in the day" he would more than likely be subject to some paddock justice after that BS.

Do they give monetary fines to people in SM? Maybe that would be a way to keep people in check.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 1:15 p.m.

I vote for the nut kick as long as we get a video of that too.

Is there any info on the grass flyer?

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
Oct. 15, 2015 1:36 p.m.

That's a really lame apology. "I don't get involved in gossip". He may have earned an extra nut kick for trying to pass that off as legitimate. The English translation of his "apology" is "I beat you whiney bitches by whatever means necessary, and I'd do it again if they wouldn't ban me for it".

Ed Higginbotham
Ed Higginbotham Editorial Assistant
Oct. 15, 2015 1:53 p.m.

The grey car that got knocked off at the top of the Roller Coaster was driven by Blake Clements. He managed to recover quickly and finished third (after Palermo's disqualification). Kind of impressive. There are some mighty big holes and ruts where he went off. Ask me how I know. But it definitely cost him a shot at the win.

Kendall_Jones
Kendall_Jones HalfDork
Oct. 15, 2015 3:03 p.m.
amg_rx7 wrote: For what it's worth.... http://mazdaracers.com/topic/5375-nasa-east-coast-championship-who-will-winupdatesnewssmack/?p=81866

See this comment?

I think Aggressive driving (contact that does not put you off) should be expected on the last lap, for the win. Not so much mid pack and mid race. I think the discussion is good so that some of the new drivers and Mid Pack drivers understand this is not a demo derby.

WTF Wreck miatas?

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Oct. 16, 2015 5:42 a.m.

I watched the video of the whole thing from the guy who finished 6th (later int he YouTube channel). They get a little pushy out there. Really competitive. But the down the straight thing was just BS. He want to squeeze the driver off the track so he couldn't brake going into the corner. I get that in the pros but at this level come on.

On a related note, there is a video of a guy who got spun going into 1/2 at Laguna Seca at the 2014 finals on the first lap. Car wasn't hurt, and he made it all up and took the win. Impressive run.

captdownshift
captdownshift UltraDork
Oct. 16, 2015 6:01 a.m.

Back cut valves, not other drivers

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UltimaDork
Oct. 16, 2015 7:53 a.m.

And that's why they're called Spec Pinata.

theenico
theenico Reader
Oct. 16, 2015 8:37 a.m.

Yet one more of a thousand reasons I would build a Miata for any class except SM. Too many rookie D-bags suffering from red-mastitis.

CGLockRacer
CGLockRacer SuperDork
Oct. 16, 2015 11:54 a.m.
theenico wrote: Yet one more of a thousand reasons I would build a Miata for any class except SM. Too many rookie D-bags suffering from red-mastitis.

Not sure if typo or not... (Do not look up mastitis at work...)

NOHOME
NOHOME UberDork
Oct. 16, 2015 11:54 a.m.

I liked the Roadkill Episode where they 24 Hour of Lemons race the 240Z. In one scene there is a guy duct-taped to the roof of his car and being driven around the paddock as he ask for forgiveness for some on-track faux-pas.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
Oct. 16, 2015 12:13 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: I liked the Roadkill Episode where they 24 Hour of Lemons race the 240Z. In one scene there is a guy duct-taped to the roof of his car and being driven around the paddock as he ask for forgiveness for some on-track faux-pas.

Good reminder on why Lemons is awesome.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
Oct. 16, 2015 3:50 p.m.

"Back in the day" our team was tracing a 280Z and we were in IT and the SM guys thought they could do as they please. After several of our drivers were pushed around finally we had a talk and just decided not to change our line any more. The typical incident would occur when two or three SM cars would come up on us in a pack and one would get by just befor the corner or at corner entry using us as a pick. The following SM cars seemed to think that they had the right to just drive through us. The real problem came with the weight difference between a 280z and and SM. As my drivers put it they were like water bugs running in to us. Anyway, after a couple of "episodes" where SM cars bounced off our car and went into the weeds I got a visit from the friendly SCCA marshals. I told them that I had instructed my drivers to hold there line and let the SM guys pass us as they could. I made it clear that we were from now on going to be holding our line into and through corners and if the SM driver was not skilled enough to pass us with out contact maybe they should think about not passing. The SCCA marshals thanked me and went away. About an hour later it got back to me that the Marshals had issued warnings to the SM drivers crew chiefs that the contact was due to there drivers poor driving skills. Word got around quick and we had no more problems with the SM cars for the remaining 18 hours of the race. Made me laugh.

Another race some friends of ours were racing a Miata but in IT and they had to put huge IT stickers on there car as the SM guys would get real pushy with them when in fact they were in a different class. From my understanding the marshals got involved at one race because some SM guys were complaining that the IT Miata was much faster and could not be legal. Well no kidding it was an IT car not an SM car. That is was lead to to huge IT stickers being put on the car.

I stay as far away as possible form the SM crowd They seem to suck all the fun out of racing.

Kreb
Kreb UltraDork
Oct. 16, 2015 5:26 p.m.

There are massive shiny happy people out there, and that guy deserves a kick right in his.

Years ago, a friend won NASA west region Super Unlimited endurance class in his Birkin Lotus 7 replica. The defending champ was a turbo Viper who was furious that a car with less than 1/2 his HP was ahead of him in the points. He ran the Birkin off the track. My friend managed to hold it together and finish the race. He had military training, and it took all his self-control not to send the guy to the hospital.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
Oct. 16, 2015 5:45 p.m.

There's all kinds of jerks in the world. Two good friends of mine are SM racers, they both say it's only a few of them who make life hell for everyone else.

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
Oct. 16, 2015 7:01 p.m.
CGLockRacer wrote:
theenico wrote: Yet one more of a thousand reasons I would build a Miata for any class except SM. Too many rookie D-bags suffering from red-mastitis.

Not sure if typo or not... (Do not look up mastitis at work...)

Ouch - that looks painful.

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk UltraDork
Oct. 16, 2015 7:04 p.m.

I raced my Spec Miata for two seasons at Waterford Hills, a track that has a bit of a reputation with the local SCCA crowd, but the club regulars seemed to be able to race it..The only incident where there was contact was with a visiting youngster who believed that the only way to pass on a narrow track was by bumping your way through. He was black flagged for hitting me three times in one race, otherwise there was zero contact between my car and any other in two full seasons. I was typically capable of running up to fourth or fifth, but even the front runners could manage to race with very little contact. It's all up to the drivers and their attitudes.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Oct. 17, 2015 1:51 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk:

Do you think it is a question of money?

When we were boat racing the guys who had money to pop an engine or replace a boat, or even worse, had a backup on the trailer tended to drive harder and twist the engine further than people who couldn't just replace everything with the money in the dresser.

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A Slippery Lap of VIR in a Porsche GT2 Evo

Posted by Ed Higginbotham Oct. 14, 2015, 12:25 p.m.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/TdDus14y93c
Can you guess what’s 6 years old on this thing? That’s right, it’s the tires. Michael Levitas piloted TPC Racing’s 1990 Porsche GT2 Evo around VIR during our 2015 Tire Rack Ultimate Track Car Challenge on what presumably felt like round black rocks.
Show comments
ORIF
ORIF New Reader
Oct. 14, 2015 7:14 p.m.

Holy Crap!

Nick (Not-Stig) Comstock
Oct. 14, 2015 7:26 p.m.

grrr-tss-vroooo-tss-vra-tsst-giiirrrrr-tss

captdownshift
captdownshift UltraDork
Oct. 14, 2015 8:02 p.m.

Mike has some stones, great funny down to earth guy to hand around as well

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
Oct. 15, 2015 7:46 p.m.

ran up on that stock car mighty quick. I think he sawed enough wood on that wheel to rebuild the grand stands.

snailmont5oh
Oct. 16, 2015 3:02 a.m.

Looks like the mirrors don't work on the stock car.

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