How the right fastener can prevent hardware failure on track

J.G.
By J.G. Pasterjak
Aug 12, 2023 | Shop Work, fasteners, Washers | Posted in Shop Work | Never miss an article

A few years ago, the SCCA Solo Nationals week started off rather promisingly. A third-place trophy in the CAM Invitational gave us high hopes heading into the SCCA Championship event. But our excitement dropped to the ground when our inattention to a single bolt cost us a strong finish. We want you to learn from our misfortune, so we put together a guide on keeping fasteners fastened.

Split Lock Washer

None

Description: Split lock washers are the most common type of locking device. They’re also one of the least effective, but they’re easy to produce and readily available. Split lock washers are flat washers that have been cut and “twisted” so that they create tension under the bolt head. In theory, this tension applies additional load to the threads and makes them less likely to back out. Typically, however, it takes far less torque to completely compress the washer flat than the fastener needs for proper hold.

Pros: Readily available, inexpensive and ubiquitous.

Cons: Doesn’t really do much.

Should be used when: Loads are light and non-critical and nothing better is available.

Wave Washers

None

Description: Wave washers are similar in principal to the split washer, but this is a continuous loop with a “wave” shape that applies tension as the bolt is tightened. Drawbacks are very similar to the split washer, but the wave washer is kinder to the surface and will not leave burrs.

Pros: Does not require a flat washer. Looks neat.

Cons: Similar to split washers. Looks weird.

Should be used when: You have a very light load and don’t want to use an additional flat washer.

Serrated Washers

None

Description: Serrated washers are also referred to as “star” washers, which rather accurately describes their appearance. These are available with the “teeth” on either the inner or outside diameter of the washer, and work by physically digging into the underside of the bolt head as well as the (hopefully soft) surface against which they are used.

Pros: Simple. Nice, direct mechanical operation.

Cons: Not terribly strong. Not good on hard surfaces.

Should be used when: You’re putting small fasteners into soft materials (aluminum, plastic, etc.).

Tab Washers

None

Description: A tab washer is a flat plate that is installed under a bolt head or nut, affixed to another fastener, then bent up to keep the primary fastener from rotating. Cool idea, but there’s an inherent weakness: Any material soft enough to bend will be soft enough to crush under the fastener’s tension. Good thing the tab washer is there to keep the bolt tight, because that tab washer is crushing under the bolt head and trying to make it looser.

Pros: Easy to improvise. Ease of visual inspection.

Cons: Inherently flawed, much like modern country music.

Should be used when: You have nothing left to lose.

Nylon Collar Lock Nuts

None

Description: Commonly referred to as “nyloks,” these nuts feature a nylon collar insert that is a smaller diameter than the threads. When the nylon is engaged with the male threads, it forms a compression interface that keeps the fastener from turning on its own.

Pros: Readily available, inexpensive, does not require additional bits of hardware.

Cons: Still somewhat susceptible to vibration loosening, although will rarely back out past the point where initial bolt tension is lost. Should not be heavily reused. Heat can melt the nylon insert.

Should be used when: Whenever you can. Good all-around performer from an effectiveness/ cost/availability standpoint. Everyone’s hardware assortment should include nylon locking fasteners.

Prevailing Torque Nuts

None

Description: Picture a regular nut, with regular threads for most of its length, but with an end that has been distorted into (usually) a more triangular shape, or “teeth” that are angled inward. When the nut is applied to the male threads, the force distorts the nut into a round shape, but the inherent tension creates a strong mechanical friction.

Pros: Strong and very vibration resistant. The good ones (mil-spec) are surprisingly reusable and won’t damage the bolt’s male threads.

Cons: This is a kind of specialized bit of hardware, so availability isn’t wide. Cheap ones will be one-time use and could mess up male threads when removed.

Should be used when: You’re rich and can afford the mil-spec stuff. Use prevailing torque nuts when you’d usually use a nylok nut, but high temperatures won’t allow it.

Slotted Beam Stop Nuts

None

Description: Commonly called castle nuts, these feature a segmented top section through which a cotter pin can be inserted for use on a cross-drilled bolt. A similar-looking arrangement also works like the elastic stop nuts. In this version, the slotted parts are angled inward and create mechanical friction on the fastener when tightened.

Pros: Very positive and visually identifiable locking.

Cons: In some applications, aligning the slots with the hole may result in the application of either too much or not enough torque.

Should be used when: Specific torque isn’t critically important, but retention is.

Wedge-Locking Washers

None

Description: Most commonly referred to as “Nord-Locks,” which is actually a brand name of one of the more common versions, these wedge-locking washers actually feature a two-washer system that uses interlocking plates to create additional friction that prevents rotation. The washers have two toothed surfaces that fit together and provide torque counter to the direction of rotation. Serrated outer surfaces grip the bolt head and surface plate.

Pros: Most vibration-resistant system that doesn’t use an external force (such as safety wire). Can be installed with common tools, just like a regular washer.

Cons: Many times more expensive than regular washers. Serrations will mark surface it mates against.

Should be used when: When you really need resistance to both vibration and rotation and don’t mind the extra cost. Wedge-locking washers are what we chose to lock down our Mustang’s Watts link; for mission-critical fasteners, they’re likely worth the cost.

Diamond-Embedded Friction Washers

None

Description: As the name implies, and the microscopic closeup shows, these washers are embedded with crushed diamonds, which creates an extremely high-friction mechanical connection. The hardness of diamonds means these work very well on hard surfaces. Most widely used in the aerospace industry and among OEMs for stuff like cam bolts and crankshaft bolts.

Pros: Strong mechanical connection. Works great for hardened surfaces, or surfaces without a lot of inherent friction.

Cons: You’re not going to find these at Ace Hardware. This is specialized stuff with a price to match.

Should be used when: Your ruby washers just don’t have the same panache anymore. Seriously, this is a good product for when you need a high-friction connection, but don’t want to introduce additional pieces as required by the wedge-locks.

Safety Wire

None

Description: A wire is passed through a drilled hole in the fastener and attached to another hard point to prevent loosening.

Pros: Probably the safest overall solution, both structurally and for ease of visual inspection. Even a mediocre job of safety wiring is stronger than most other things on this list.

Cons: Complex and time consuming. Requires additional specialized equipment and knowledge. Not good for anything that requires frequent removal.

Should be used when: You don’t want something to come off, and you don’t intend to take it off any time soon. See also: every bolt on a helicopter.

Jam Nuts

None

Description: Besides sounding like that party band your uncle was in during college that he just won’t shut up about (no, Randy, you never “almost got signed”-let it go already) jam nuts are one of the best “conventional” locking methods around. A jam nut is a second nut that is applied to a bolt’s male threads and then tightened against the first fastener. This produces opposing stresses and increases friction on the threads.

Pros: Easy, cheap and reliable. Jam nuts are a go-to solution that’s easy to implement in the field. Use a nylok jam nut for even more reliability.

Cons: Requires additional male threads to implement, so not suitable for some tight quarters.

Should be used when: You need a reliable solution, but have limited stuff in your box. Or when you have the space available.

Chemical Thread Locking Methods

None

Description: As the most prolific brand, Loctite has become synonymous with chemical thread lockers, but it’s just one of many high-quality brands out there. Thread locking compounds are anaerobic (meaning they cure in the absence of air) liquids or gels that effectively act as glue between the male and female threads. Books can and have been written about their use and properties.

Pros: Easy to use, readily available and highly effective. Available in varying strengths and heat resistances.

Cons: The joint is only as strong as the surface is clean. You always run out right when you need just a little more.

Should be used when: Whenever possible. Lots of specific formulations for different applications means lots of options.

Of course there are more solutions out there, and you’re ultimately limited only by cost, complexity and possibly access to secret government files. This should get you headed toward making good decisions about how to keep your fasteners in place. We highly recommend Carroll Smith’s “Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook” for in-depth discussions of many of the solutions we mentioned here.

As for us, as we mentioned, we’re going with the wedge-locking washer system for now, coupled with a dab of medium-strength thread locker. We’ve also put a splash of paint on our Watts pivot and many other critical fastener connections, so we can easily see if there’s been any movement in these fasteners since they were last torqued.

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Comments
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Satch_Carlson
Satch_Carlson New Reader
5/9/18 5:16 p.m.

The jam nuts I've used (bulkhead nuts?) are thinner than the nuts they're jamming.

With safety wire, note the excellent photo in this piece, which shows that there is actually some thought involved; the wire should go in the direction of tightness. (This seems obvious, but I've seen it wound the other way a surprising number of times.)

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 UltraDork
5/9/18 8:49 p.m.

So us helicopter mechanics may be useful after all. cheeky

te72
te72 Reader
5/9/18 10:23 p.m.

Saw the painting method (where you mark the bolt and nut, or bolt and area near where bolt engages the surface) used on a friend's car. Really smart way of making sure fasteners that are supposed to retain tension are in fact, doing just that. If you're gonna mark things in more than one place, for ease of quick viewing, just make sure you don't mark them 180 degrees opposite of each other. if the fastener spins 180 degrees, you'd never know. If the marks are uneven intervals, the only way it can be correct is if the fastener has held its tension, or spun a full circle to the exact same spot, which would be somewhat unlikely.

 

Most important thing, I've discovered, in regards to bolts and other things in the engine bay, is environmental consideration. Is the fastener you're using made of an appropriate material for the job you're asking it to perform? Consider:

 

-Temperature

-Vibration resistance

-Pressure

-Tensile strength

 

Example that most comes to mind in my case have been related to my turbo system. The guy who put my engine together at the machine shop used grade 5 bolts between my head and exhaust manifold, and exhaust manifold and turbo. Had to re-clock the bearing section of the turbo (because it was sitting with the oil drain about 45 to 50 degrees from vertical, which is less than ideal and causing me some nasty issues), when I attempted to remove these grade 5 bolts... disaster.

 

Ended up breaking a bolt off in the manifold, as the threads had effectively welded themselves to the manifold flange. That was NOT a fun job to fix, and ended up requiring the manifold to be sent off to a machine shop to repair. The solution? Stainless ARP studs in my case. Meets the temperature requirements for such a hot area of the engine bay, plenty of tensile strength, and should prevent any unexpected funkiness from using typical hardware store bolts...

 

More recently, had the line from the turbo compressor housing to the wastegate develop a hole. It was Parker nylon air line, good for 150psi, which meets the pressure requirement, BUT... a quick look at their spec sheet revealed that it's max operating temperature was only 200 degrees F. The coolant running through my engine, used to cool the other parts down runs nearly that hot... how warm do you suspect the actual components themselves, and the air around them is? Little surprised this one failed.

 

What's the danger with a blown wastegate line, you ask? Well, in simple terms, if that line blows, it keeps your wastegate from opening. Two things then tend to happen. You have a LOT of fun, briefly, before realizing you're running much more boost than usual, and secondly, things get expensive, because you're running much more boost than usual. Fortunately my ECU has a very fast reacting overboost protection circuit, so no harm was done. Potential for a blown engine though...

 

Sorry for the really long post, but I'm a big proponent of proper material selection, it makes all the difference! Thanks for posting this article online, was a good read on paper, hopefully this is one of those threads that gets a long life and good exposure. =)

Scargod
Scargod New Reader
5/11/18 7:01 a.m.

Quite good writeup. I'd never thought that the tabbed washers would be failure prone. Does seem to work to keep some Harleys from falling apart.
Also that dirty/oily bolts, nuts, holes don't benefit much from a thread-locker.
In general, and especially with a race car, you cannot pay enough attention to having the right grade of fastening hardware, proper torque and good techniques. I'm still scratching my head about why I lost a bolt and had a catastrophic failure on the track, totaling my almost new car. Stock, it relies solely on tension. Now they have wedge-lock washers and thread locker.

te72
te72 Reader
5/11/18 10:15 p.m.
Scargod said:

In general, and especially with a race car, you cannot pay enough attention to having the right grade of fastening hardware, proper torque and good techniques. I'm still scratching my head about why I lost a bolt and had a catastrophic failure on the track, totaling my almost new car. Stock, it relies solely on tension. Now they have wedge-lock washers and thread locker.

Poor engineering, or is this a car that might not be expected to be used on a track? I'm curious for more details, if you're willing to share. Failure analysis is something that's always interested me, and I find it a good way of learning.

fidelity101 (Forum Supporter)
fidelity101 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
6/17/20 9:49 a.m.

you forgot cross threading!

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
6/17/20 10:13 a.m.

Remember,  cross threading is nature's Loc-Tite.

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
6/17/20 10:47 a.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

I think that deserves to go on a bumper sticker or a t-shirt.

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/17/20 11:03 a.m.

In reply to Satch_Carlson :

 

^^Satch!!

Apexcarver
Apexcarver UltimaDork
6/17/20 11:03 a.m.

Something to think about, in cases where you have a rod end, turnbuckle adjuster, etc. The jamb nut serves more than one purpose. You have prevention of turning, so that it doesnt lengthen and eventually separate. But then you also have the preload keeping the threads from lashing back and forth and fretting/eroding themselves and causing a sudden pullout/failure if ignored long enough. 

 

Loose threaded fittings dont only fail by backing out. 

Honsch
Honsch New Reader
6/17/20 12:34 p.m.

You appear to haver a fundamental misunderstanding of the Nord-Lock type washers.

They are used in pairs with the serrations together.  They will not mar a surface.

Their anti-loosening theory is the serrations form a more-coarse ramp than the thread pitch so as they rotate counter-clockwise against each other it increases tension on the fastener.  

79rex
79rex Reader
6/17/20 12:44 p.m.

In reply to Honsch :

I was also under the impression that they help prevent slip.   So not true?

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
6/17/20 12:52 p.m.
Honsch said:

You appear to haver a fundamental misunderstanding of the Nord-Lock type washers.

They are used in pairs with the serrations together.  They will not mar a surface.

Their anti-loosening theory is the serrations form a more-coarse ramp than the thread pitch so as they rotate counter-clockwise against each other it increases tension on the fastener.  

Sorry, but that's not correct. They can and do mar surfaces. The ramps face each other, while the teeth face the bolt and what it's bolting down. That is how they work, though.

The full details are here:

https://www.nord-lock.com/shop/private-use/how-it-works/

wspohn
wspohn Dork
6/17/20 12:58 p.m.

Excellent article!

One thing not mentioned about split pins is that if split pins are used in an application where there is significant vibration, particularly if the ones used are slightly off spec and are  bit too small for the hole, they can vibrate and eventually 'lose  leg' when one of the bent ends snaps off.

The rest of the pin will probably hold fine, but in some environments the now peripatetic tag end can cause trouble.  We tore down a 1950s Jaguar engine once  (which used split pins on the con rod big end nuts) where one of the legs on a too small pin had gone walkabout and ended up somehow getting through the screen on the oil pump and causing all sorts of damage once inside the pump.

The Jag specialists can correct me if I am wrong, but IIRC, the Jaguar pins were a slightly odd size and it was pretty common for rebuilds to be done using whatever pins were at hand and a reasonably close fit.  I am sure that failing to properly trim the bent ends would also exacerbate the problem (get then short enough that they don't vibrate enough to wear).

Turboeric
Turboeric GRM+ Memberand Reader
6/17/20 9:23 p.m.

I can confirm the 50s Jag engines used castellated nuts and that one of the legs of the cotter pin can break off, be ingested by the oil pump, which wreaks havoc with the pump. I had exactly that happen to my 58 XK150S, and it wasn't pretty. I could have just fixed the pump and replaced the cotter pins, but worry about if I had found all of the pieces of the leg lead to a full teardown and rebuild, which of course lead to balancing and tweaking. Balancing those old long stroke motors made a world of difference - the reciprocating masses didn't bear thinking about. I don't remember about the pins being an odd size, but that was long, long pre-internet, so I doubt I was aware of it.

Honsch
Honsch New Reader
6/18/20 12:40 a.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Hmm.  The ones I ran into years ago were smooth on the non-serrated sides.

I would assume the knurling on the mating surfaces would help increase the probability that the washer halves don't slip on the fastener and clamping surface.

matthewmcl (Forum Supporter)
matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) Reader
6/18/20 7:46 a.m.

Two points.

1.  Tab washers are not any squishier than any other washer.  They do not bend because they are "soft" in the squishy sense, they bend because they are thin and they stay bent because they have a low yield strength.  Being thin actually makes them less squishy just luck cutting coils on a spring raises the spring rate.  It is odd, but pretty much every type of steel in every hardness has the same squishiness (Modulus of Elasticity).  The washer is not any easier to crush than the nut, and if you are bolting up aluminum, the aluminum is almost three times squishier (in the same thickness) than any steel washer. If the tab is easy to bend over, then it is also easy for vibration to bend it back.  You can gauge locking ability based on the difficulty of fully bending the tab.

2. If using stainless in high heat situations, make sure the CTE (Coefficient of Thermal Expansion) of the materials are compatible or you can have a bolt that loses preload (essentially getting looser) as your system heats up.  Or, the other way, you can have a bolt that gets tighter and is broken by the system heating up.  Stainless bolts holding stainless headers can be fine, carbon on carbon of course, but not all stainless steels have the same CTE, so check materials and be careful.

volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter)
volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
6/19/20 7:58 a.m.

Mechanical engineer here, with more fastener training than I could type out in a day.  ;-) 

Most of the information here is generally correct.  I have a personal hatred of split washers and prefer a bolt and nut arrangement torqued properly with NO locking device whatsoever, over a split washer.  The only time I'll use a split washer is on something like a deck where a) the materials (i.e. wood) are much softer than the fasteners, and b) nothing is moving or vibrating. 

Torquing fasteners properly is the single biggest thing you can do to prevent them from loosening. 

Nylocks- not any better at torque retention than a regular nut.  The only thing the nylon insert is good for is, as you said, preventing the nut from coming off completely. BUT- this only works if there's sufficient thread penetration past the end of the nut- I typically like to see 2-3 threads.  Anything less than that and the nylock is essentially no better than a regular nut.  Also, they say nylocks can be reused up to 5 times, but does anyone actually count?  My general policy on them is to toss them after every use. 

I see tab washers used frequently on suspensions and brake components.  IMO they generally work well, although after one or two removals the tabs get fatigued and need to be replaced. 

Nord-locks are my personal favorite for when it Absolutely, Positively, Must Retain Torque.

One final thought- use either locking compound, or lubrication on threads.  This sounds counter-intuitive and contradictory, but there's a reason.  A properly torqued bolted joint will resist loosening- and the best way to obtain proper torque is with lubricated threads.  Loctite will "lock" a fastener, but it also helps lubricate it on installation, so that correct torque can be applied.  If you're not using a thread locking compound, always use antiseize or similar to help make sure the threads engage fully and you get a "true" torque on the fasteners.

clshore
clshore Reader
6/19/20 8:43 a.m.
Appleseed said:

Remember,  SAND is nature's Loc-Tite.

There FTFY

 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltimaDork
6/19/20 8:52 a.m.

What do you call an ovaled nut?  Does that still fall under prevailing torque?

They are common and cheap, although usually designed for a specific application.

Sometimes I make my own by crushing a nut in my vise.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltimaDork
6/19/20 8:53 a.m.
clshore said:
Appleseed said:

Remember,  SAND is nature's Loc-Tite.

There FTFY

 

Rust.

collinskl1
collinskl1 GRM+ Memberand Reader
6/19/20 9:00 a.m.
ProDarwin said:

What do you call an ovaled nut?  Does that still fall under prevailing torque?

They are common and cheap, although usually designed for a specific application.

Sometimes I make my own by crushing a nut in my vise.

Yes, a deformed nut falls under the prevailing torque umbrella. Sometimes they're ovaled with two crimp points, sometimes three. Like nylocks, they are less effective from more uses, but not as quickly as nylock nuts.

glyn ellis
glyn ellis New Reader
2/12/21 11:08 a.m.
Satch_Carlson said:

The jam nuts I've used (bulkhead nuts?) are thinner than the nuts they're jamming.

With safety wire, note the excellent photo in this piece, which shows that there is actually some thought involved; the wire should go in the direction of tightness. (This seems obvious, but I've seen it wound the other way a surprising number of times.)

If you're using the thinner jam nuts, these should go on first and the full size nut applied afterwards. The outermost nut will take most of the load, and it's better that you have the larger nut available for that duty.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
2/12/21 12:04 p.m.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) :

 If you're not using a thread locking compound, always use antiseize or similar to help make sure the threads engage fully and you get a "true" torque on the fasteners.

I believe I have in the past asked about using anti-seize on Lugnuts. I believe that the consensus was that they should be torqued dry. Could we address that question?

obsolete
obsolete GRM+ Memberand Reader
2/12/21 12:41 p.m.
volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) said:

One final thought- use either locking compound, or lubrication on threads.  This sounds counter-intuitive and contradictory, but there's a reason.  A properly torqued bolted joint will resist loosening- and the best way to obtain proper torque is with lubricated threads.  Loctite will "lock" a fastener, but it also helps lubricate it on installation, so that correct torque can be applied.  If you're not using a thread locking compound, always use antiseize or similar to help make sure the threads engage fully and you get a "true" torque on the fasteners.

I understand and agree with the reasoning behind this (it's why ARP supplies their lube with all their products), but there's one critical exception--when you're dealing with a torque spec that assumes the threads are dry, if you lubricate the threads, you will keep turning and turning until you damage something. Been there, done that, learned my lesson.

I think the answer to Floating Doc's question about lug nuts is along the same lines.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/12/21 1:20 p.m.
obsolete said:
volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) said:

One final thought- use either locking compound, or lubrication on threads.  This sounds counter-intuitive and contradictory, but there's a reason.  A properly torqued bolted joint will resist loosening- and the best way to obtain proper torque is with lubricated threads.  Loctite will "lock" a fastener, but it also helps lubricate it on installation, so that correct torque can be applied.  If you're not using a thread locking compound, always use antiseize or similar to help make sure the threads engage fully and you get a "true" torque on the fasteners.

I understand and agree with the reasoning behind this (it's why ARP supplies their lube with all their products), but there's one critical exception--when you're dealing with a torque spec that assumes the threads are dry, if you lubricate the threads, you will keep turning and turning until you damage something. Been there, done that, learned my lesson.

I think the answer to Floating Doc's question about lug nuts is along the same lines.

Yes, throwing anti-seize onto bolts willy-nilly and then torquing to a spec that assumes "clean, dry threads" is a good way to strip the threads off the fasteners.

There's really no such thing as a "true" torque, even with lube a lot of the force is going into overcoming friction.  If you really care about fastener pre-load then there are other ways of measuring it that are more accurate (angles or bolt stretch)

 

 

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
2/12/21 3:52 p.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

The problem is, how do you define "clan and dry"?  Almost all fasteners are going to have some oil or something on them, unless you fastidiously degrease them and then don't touch the threads.  And ensure the hole is clean and dry as well, somehow.  Obviously, if the spec calls out torque 'x' for "clean and dry" and I have antiseize on the threads, I'm going to consult my torque calculations for the particular fastener diameter and thread pitch and grade and determine what the equivalent 'y' torque should be.  

Yes, torquing is not the most accurate method of setting bolt preload- but it is quite easy.  "turn of nut" has its own challenges, and measuring bolt stretch or actual clamping load is usually not practical.  And because of friction, variances in coatings and "incidental" lubrication, 'Dry Torque' is generally not as accurate as "Wet Torque".  

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
2/12/21 4:01 p.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to volvoclearinghouse (Forum Supporter) :

 If you're not using a thread locking compound, always use antiseize or similar to help make sure the threads engage fully and you get a "true" torque on the fasteners.

I believe I have in the past asked about using anti-seize on Lugnuts. I believe that the consensus was that they should be torqued dry. Could we address that question?

I always always always anti-seize lug nuts.  Not just for torque- I 've had lug nuts seize to studs, and steel nuts do not play well with aluminum wheels.  Antiseize, definitely.  As for what torque to use, as I mentioned before, figure out what the thread pitch and diameter is, and the grade, and then you can figure out what the torque's supposed to be.  For example, a 1/2"-20 lug nut (assuming Grade 8 equivalent) would have a dry torque of 120 ft lbs, so I'd use 90 ft lbs with antiseize.  

If using an impact, that's equal to about 11-12 "ugga duggas".  devil

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
2/12/21 4:06 p.m.
earlybroncoguy1
earlybroncoguy1 New Reader
2/12/21 4:42 p.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

Rust. Rust is natures' threadlocker. Cross=threading is accidental threadlocker.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/12/21 4:48 p.m.
volvoclearinghouse said:

The problem is, how do you define "clan and dry"?  Almost all fasteners are going to have some oil or something on them, unless you fastidiously degrease them and then don't touch the threads.  And ensure the hole is clean and dry as well, somehow.  Obviously, if the spec calls out torque 'x' for "clean and dry" and I have antiseize on the threads, I'm going to consult my torque calculations for the particular fastener diameter and thread pitch and grade and determine what the equivalent 'y' torque should be.  

Yes, torquing is not the most accurate method of setting bolt preload- but it is quite easy.  "turn of nut" has its own challenges, and measuring bolt stretch or actual clamping load is usually not practical.  And because of friction, variances in coatings and "incidental" lubrication, 'Dry Torque' is generally not as accurate as "Wet Torque".  

If it matters, you clean the rust/etc off the threads with a wire brush, squirt it with brake cleaner, and then handle it with clean gloves.

I suspect the conversion charts between the "clean/dry" spec and the "with anti-seize" specs are going to introduce more error in your spec than using the above procedure.

Personally I only use anti-seize on fasteners where the spec explicitly calls for it, or for those that I know are likely to be difficult to get off later (exhaust nuts, mainly).  Otherwise I leave it in the jar -- for regular stuff it's going to cause more trouble than it's worth.  I never use it on lugnuts, and in 25 years the only time I've ever had a problem with one coming off was when a tire shop cross-threaded it.  OTOH, I live in California where things don't rust much.

 

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
2/13/21 9:06 a.m.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

"OTOH, I live in California where things don't rust much"

Bingo.  I grew up in Western NY, where new cars have rust on them.  I've been using anti-seize on lug nuts for 20 years, and the only time I've ever had a problem with lug nuts coming off was one time at a race where someone used the "ugga dugga" method of torquing them and (unknown at the time) the compressor was unplugged and only had like 30 psi.  My fault, I should have rechecked them, or insisted they torque them properly.  That was 10 years ago, and I still kick myself for that goof up.  Luckily, no one was injured and the damage was minimal...and, if I'm being honest, somewhat hilarious.  

The conversion charts don't introduce any additional error, they simply assume a different coefficient of friction on the threads/ fastener face. My point is, it's a lot easier to control that friction coefficient lubricated than it is "dry".  Also note, the plating on the fasteners makes a difference in the "dry" torque...so do you know, for certain, if you're dealing with an unplated bolt, or zinc plated or...?  

I feel this is a productive conversation to have, and while there's certainly a lot of hammer mechanics who think they know better than the engineers who designed stuff that do more harm than good when touching a wrench to something, I'm fairly confident that my 8 years of engineering edumacation and 20+ years of experience working on cars, buses, and trains have something to do with the ability to make a determination what works and what doesn't.  Caveat Emptor, when in doubt, it's usually safer to do what the manual says.  

03Panther
03Panther SuperDork
2/13/21 7:12 p.m.

I have seen anti seize (or other lube) be blamed for causing a problem, but usually there were other contributing factors

But have seen MANY more problems from NOT using it - or not using enough. 

I have seen lugs loosen; both dry and lubed. But it has NEVER been because of lube!

JAGwinn
JAGwinn New Reader
2/14/21 3:08 p.m.

Concerning the Nylock nut; Do not reuse after removal...replace with new...

aggie76
aggie76 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
2/7/22 12:08 p.m.

I really enjoyed and appreciated this article. I have a copy of Carroll Smith's "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing" on my bookshelf, and I recommend it to folks, too.

Angus
Angus New Reader
2/7/22 1:55 p.m.

Nice article.

Star washers are used to make sure a faster has a good ground, they do a good job cutting through a paint layer down to the base metal.  As stated, they aren't the best lock washers.

wombat1954
wombat1954
10/11/22 9:59 p.m.

Totally agree Carroll Smiths book is excellent. In fact all his book are very good.

Also check out stage8.com these product are terrific if you have a critical application. 

Finally remember bolts and studs are only springs so the longer they are the better they work at retaining clamping load consistently. Consequently short fasterners especially ones clamping thin components like sheet metal need a lot of help.

 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/11/22 10:46 p.m.

In reply to wombat1954 :

"Springs" is not really accurate. They do hold by the effort of pushing a load up an inclined plane. (wrapped around a helical axis laugh).  Measuring stretch (with known properties of the metal used in the fastener) will give a indication of  clamping force, but it's the resistance to moving up that ramp that does the holding.

 
Stage 8 does make some cool stuff!

clshore
clshore Reader
10/12/22 10:00 a.m.
Appleseed said:

Remember,  cross threading is nature's Loc-Tite.
I thought that's what sand was for.

 

BimmerMaven
BimmerMaven Reader
1/17/23 6:51 p.m.

Just a reminder

 

Blue loctite for removal without heat.

Red loctite for removal with heat >300F.  Commonly used where there is only one nut, e.g. Output flange, axle nut.

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/17/23 8:48 p.m.
ProDarwin said:

What do you call an ovaled nut?  Does that still fall under prevailing torque?

They are common and cheap, although usually designed for a specific application.

Sometimes I make my own by crushing a nut in my vise.

I call them scrap, they tend to damage the threads of the bolt on installation.

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