Make time to check in on your friends | Column

David S.
By David S. Wallens
Oct 10, 2022 | Hans Mezger, Obituary, Column, Gary Anderson, Kirk F. White, Russel Tullius, Vic Elford, Bruce Meyers, Howard Liebengood, Dr. Fred Simeone | Posted in Columns | From the Nov. 2022 issue | Never miss an article

Photography Credit: Chris Tropea

The worst part of this job? It’s not the pace, the workload or the constant self-doubting. 

It’s writing obits for people you knew. In j-school, you learn that it’s going to be part of the drill. It’s one of those things that has to be done. 

I remember an assignment where we had to write our own obits. I know, a little …

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Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
10/10/22 1:18 p.m.

Slowly learning this one. I'm thankful to not have lost anyone recently, but it's shocking how quickly I've fallen out of touch with friends from college–which was only about 5 years ago.

I'd say today is a good day for me to reach out on social media.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/10/22 3:16 p.m.

Why do people fawn over their friends/family, whether living or dead?  It's a waste of time and it sets you up to fail by causing you to fall to judgement.  Worse yet, you get trapped into feeding a dirty ego - first yours so you can hope for them to feed yours. 

It may be a Polish saying - i don't remember - but it seems to fit the bill here, "Every monster has a lover."

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/10/22 4:39 p.m.

Learn from the Irish (me mum is half Irish).  We lean more toward the celebration of life (sometimes hard when dealing with young people); I miss my dad every day but he lived life to the fullest. My father's funeral was full of stories and smiles. 

As for keeping touch; I'm privileged to meet up with a group of BMX & Motocross riders/racers at a reunion party. I just got on social media 2 1/2 years ago and that was how I found out about the reunion.  I went to high school with a number of these folks. They are a bunch of goofballs (much like here) and it's wonderful.

I have this saying when people I know pass "keep them in your heart every day".

  

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/10/22 6:04 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

My favorite Irish joke explains it well:

The only difference between an Irish wake, and an Irish wedding? One less drunken...

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/10/22 6:05 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

You may mean all of that to be different than as read. But as read? I hope your not as huge a negitive azz hat as ya sound. 
Either that or I'm missing something. 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/10/22 8:46 p.m.

I hope I read that wrong too.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/10/22 9:58 p.m.
03Panther said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

My favorite Irish joke explains it well:

The only difference between an Irish wake, and an Irish wedding? One less drunken...

Ar ya sane way drenk all da time ten?

300zxfreak
300zxfreak Reader
10/10/22 10:09 p.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

I don't think you're missing anything, but he certainly is.

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/10/22 10:24 p.m.

In reply to 300zxfreak :

It's been pointed out I can be a bit to harsh, so I'm trying not to interpret wrong!

Smarter me would leave it alone completely. Just can't!

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/10/22 10:24 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I don't want a sad wake - have a drink for me! Love it!

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/10/22 11:26 p.m.
03Panther said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I don't want a sad wake - have a drink for me! Love it!

Yeah I want my friends and family to talk about the goofy  crazy irreverent stiff I did........and have a Guinness.

Fair
Fair New Reader
10/11/22 2:26 p.m.

Well written, and it never gets easy. RIP to Howie and the others. frown

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/11/22 2:28 p.m.

In reply to Colin Wood :

  1.  
J.A. Ackley
J.A. Ackley Senior Editor
10/11/22 2:42 p.m.

Whenever I travel, I make it a point to call on old friends if I'm driving or message folks on FB while in the air. It helps me pass the time and helps remind an old friend that they're thought of.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/11/22 6:04 p.m.

Dave's story provoked some thought in me so i asked a provocative question.  Although I warned against judgment, I got judged by two guys here who simply couldn't help themselves.  I get it.

In Dave's story he never gets around to calling it love, but he brings up an interesting challenge from journalism school: writing your own epitaph.  What would you say about yourself?  What would you want others to say about you?  This is where the ego is tempted and fed.  Yogi Berra said something like, "you should always show up to other people's funerals so they can show up to yours."  So you want to say only good things about each other so they only say good things about you?  What good is that?  Is that really love?  Isn't it more useful to spread correcting love rather than feel-good love?

It may be a matter of philosophy but I say there are 2 types of love - supportive love or corrective love.  Add judgement to that and you pay your allegiance to lies, liars, haters, and sycophants.  If you constantly say only nice things about your friends and heap praise on them, you MAY not be right about them.  How many friends and lovers have each of you had who have turned out to be very different from what you judged them to be?  Divorces and breakups happen more frequently these days.  I hear lots of women say that it's caused by a lack of communication.  Yeah, the truth doesn't get communicated often enough and we're all too afraid of the stress the truth adds to our lives.  We seek pleasurable escapes and to keep company with our like-minded (I say narrow-minded) tribe.  Why not learn how to handle stress and emotions properly so you can go anywhere?  Every living thing needs stress to grow, otherwise it grows stagnant and limp and produces nothing useful.  Then, when your friend sees something wrong with you, you don't get upset and tell him he's wrong for making you feel wrong.  

I saw a meme yesterday about people having a great time with their co-workers only to have one of them turn on them and throw them under the bus.  That meme spreads because people recognize the truth in it, but they're addicted to judgment so they only pass on the meme but hate the solution to the problem.  Ironically, they'd rather keep the problem with the comforting judgment and shoot the messenger with the antidote!  Not all people, just most.

My story is a warning to keep a bit of space between you and others - family, friends, spouse.  Yeah, you can gush all kinds of supportive love on people, but then you cause them pain by clinging ever closer and needing more from them until they push you away and you cry, "betrayal."  Egos are cute in little kids, but it's like feeding a baby dragon.  Better to let it starve, I say.

So to the two guys I've tempted to name-call me, I'm sorry I had to do that to you (I couldn't help myself, hehe).  Let's be friends instead.  Why not?  I didn't take it personally. Join me and you won't have any guilt.

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/11/22 6:35 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

If I was smart enough to understand anything you said, I wouldn't have had to ask if you really meant to be an azz hat, or not. I did not call you one. But since I used common language, you may have misunderstood. 
your follow up made even less sense, but I am not judging you. I merely asked a question. You may be too smart to explain to a backwoods guy like me, but it still comes across super negitive, to us normal folks. 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/11/22 6:44 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

I had to re read. I fail to see where anyone called you names, or judged you unfairly. I also fail to see where you ask a provocative question. You seem  (although I do not understand the form of language you use) to suggesting that things would be better if no one care about anyone else. 
If that's your stand, you are not doing very well at it. 
But mostly, not being on the same intellectual level as you, I'm just confused. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/11/22 6:51 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

Despite my believing your post is something of a troll I'll bite:

There is nothing wrong with ego; see my post about my recently attending a BMX / Motocross reunion. There are so many talented people attending this event..........we know all we have talent and we are humble about it to a degree but put us all on bike or motorcycle and will knock each other over to be first.........and then laugh about it later.

This is why absolutely love each others company.

 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/11/22 8:21 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I looked when I first posted, to see if his was a first post, since his choice of wording is not what we usually see here. But although new, he's been around long enough to not be oblivious, unless he chooses to be. 
 

I did not click over to read every word of the article; thought the title and short bit said what it means. 
From that, aside from being hugely negative, I have no clue what he is talking about. 
He did reference ego, and I agree with your explanation, understanding where your going. 
But the leap from caring about others, to his rants against, that - no clue where his ego,putting down anyone that doesn't agree with him, or where ego, comes in at all!

I truly am too dense to really understand the internet definition of troll, but I'm wondering if he might be an example? I don't really know. 

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf HalfDork
10/11/22 8:29 p.m.

This is somewhat of a timely subject for me. On Sunday I will be heading to SoCal to get together with 6 of my friends who I met in the 70s. This will be the second get together. Last year was supposed to be at Mt. Whitney but the weather turned so we ended up at Lone Pine which was fitting since several of us had raced there for years. The weather was mediocre but we did what we have always done – made the best of what we had to work with. It was a blast. All of us have decided to continue to do it as long as we are still breathing.

Some were roommates, most were Mulholland guys, some became part of my racing activities, one was a co-driver who had also intro’d me to AutoX, we also raced against each other at times.

We tell the stories, give a salute and raise a glass to those who are gone. One of the guys passed just before we decided to do this. And my lady of 20 years passed a month after. We talk about our parents some of whom were like second mothers / fathers to us – and who are all gone. All are greatly missed. We do that because it is the human thing to do.

We are spread out throughout the west and we keep in touch one way or another.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/11/22 9:00 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

I'll gladly be your friend. But at a distance. wink

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/11/22 9:24 p.m.
Appleseed said:

In reply to Junkers :

I'll gladly be your friend. But at a distance. wink

That's one reason I love you guys. Even folks I might have had a disagreement  with, I know most would pitch in to help if I broke down, passin' through their town! 
Great folks. 
Don't know I'd ever call him a friend, but I'd store a car, or enable as I can, if he needs it!

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
10/11/22 9:46 p.m.

Back in August I went to my wife's grandmother's memorial and burial. 

Wife's second cousin was there, a guy that most of the family hadn't seen in a decade or two.  Two or three weeks after grandma's memorial he died in his sleep from a heart attack.  

 

You just never know.

johndej
johndej SuperDork
10/11/22 9:50 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

So if I understand right,  love, hate, or ignore all objectively and with caution, got it .

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/11/22 10:52 p.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I lost touch with a good friend for about 10 years. While out on a out of town contract, I retold a story with him in it, and told myself I would look him up that summer while home. Got a call a month later that he has passed at 55 to cancer. 
Never put it off!

te72
te72 HalfDork
10/11/22 11:12 p.m.

Use my ashes to mark the start line at an autocross, hope everybody has a good time!

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/11/22 11:18 p.m.

There is truth in everyone's posts here.  That said the last 2.5 years have been hard on relationships and really show you who your true friends are.  Adversity can clarify a friendship quickly.  Cherish your closest friends and family.  I will be celebrating the loss of a friend later this week.  It happened pretty unexpectedly and all too quick.  I know we had made plans to do something this fall together, but now that will never happen. 

 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/12/22 12:38 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Sorry for your loss, and sorry the last few years have been hard for you, and some others. 
I've been blessed, to not have had the same hardships. Other than the financial, and that was ok during the worst of it. Zero relationship problems surfaced, thankfully. The economic slide to hell, has affected me worse than most, but has not lost me any friends. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/12/22 6:58 a.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

Sounds like we had opposite experiences.  I had enough means to sit out the finance stuff and wait for the right opportunity, but I've seen other loss though.  If there is anything I know, you too will persevere and recover.  Sometimes when things appear really bad it ends up leading to better things.  I've had this cycle repeat a few times.  

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/12/22 10:38 a.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

Sometimes when things appear really bad it ends up leading to better things.  I've had this cycle repeat a few times.  

I've seen that cycle. And much appreciate the positive vibes. 
Sadly, financially, this is not one of those cycles crying

I won't starve to death between now and dying of old age, but although working through the crazy, lots of folks were paid more than me, to sit home. That's ok, I've never accepted welfare, despite qualifying a time or two. I was on a job that, with overtime, paid about $1000 a month less than my monthly bills. Cost of living is going up by leaps and bounds (while we are being told how much better it's getting)  and income (for me) has hit the ceiling   

Again, aside from some struggles with depression, im blessed with a great wife, friends, and decent health. Early retirement would have been nice, but working till I die with wrenches in my hand is ok, too. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/12/22 11:24 a.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

My Dad was born in 1934 and retired in 1997 and he was making the equivalent of 45K per year today. He went back to work within about 6 months and worked past 83rd birthday. He was working as a school crossing guard for the last three years of his life. 

He enjoyed life every day.

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
10/12/22 2:14 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

I'm sorry for the pain you have experienced.

madmrak351
madmrak351 Reader
10/12/22 3:28 p.m.

We have all experienced loss and darkness in our lives to various degrees. It affects us in different ways and depths and durations.  It can shade our views, sometimes permanently. Having lost my father when he was 55 and I was 20 affected me deeply. So I understand the darkness. I worked thru it over the years with my faith. I chose not to avoid or mute my relationship with my family or friends because while loss hurts, their lives enrich mine so much. As the OP states check up on your friends!!!

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/13/22 12:12 a.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

Sorry to hear this.  My dad is still working at 77.  He drives a school bus these days and likes the kids.  I find it sad his generation is the first one to pay into social security their entire lives but many can't retire.  

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
10/13/22 9:28 a.m.

Social media has definitely changed how many of us interact with friends. 

As someone who went to school in the Before Times, I lost touch with a lot of friends–with every move came a new phone number, a new mailing address. I lost touch with everyone from high school and a bunch of people I knew in college.

I've reconnected with many. Most of the experiences have been positive–very positive–and I've only had to let a few people go. (I've let some car people go, too.)

One reconnect was with a girl I knew in college. She was a year or two older than us–totally one of the cool/beautiful people–but always so sweet and friendly.

We all reconnected through social media, and her posts were mostly about the kids, the dogs, normal stuff. She lived a thousand miles away from here, so low odds of ever meeting for lunch. It was always nice to see her like a post. 

Two years ago–I saw it as we were setting up for trick or treaters–a post on her FB started with, "Hello from her kids...."

I knew it wasn't going to be good news. And it wasn't.

I don't know the specifics but, yeah, check in with your buds. 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/13/22 10:13 a.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks!

I'm a bit bitter at some I've the reasons I'm broke, but otherwise ok. And I know I have a ton of company, out here in the cheap seats. cheeky

And I have a nice roof over my head, and ain't wondering how to find a meal. We've got the basics covered, and a lot of folks do not even have that. I Only have first world complaints!!!

Thanks again for the kind vibes!!!

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/13/22 12:09 p.m.
johndej said:

In reply to Junkers :

So if I understand right,  love, hate, or ignore all objectively and with caution, got it .

Actually my point was multifaceted which is why it was difficult to sift out.  You got the part about being objective.   Yes, you do want to always stand objective of your emotions, feelings, and most importantly EGO.  You didn't get what I said about love or hate, though - but kind-of in a way you DID get what I said.  You have to stand objective to what you call "love" and what you call "hate."  Hate is unnecessary in all instances and helps no one.  Hate doesn't need to hide except when the ego uses it, so we pretty much know what hate is and what it looks like.  Love is the part nobody actually understands and that's likely where I got most of the hate directed at me.  There's the kind of love that corrects (this usually injures/insults the ego), then there's the kind of love which nurtures and builds up.  It's a nuanced thing to let THAT kind of love go over the top.  We all do it when we "fall in love."  Why is love a fall?  Because we let it move us into worshipping another person when we TAKE IT TOO FAR (that's what everybody missed in my posts).  If you worship your wife or girlfriend, she'll resent you for it because you didn't use that objective restraining force when you saw (or failed to see) that you were gushing love on her or fawning on her too much.  Women see it as being "icky."  I've learned to spot when admiration goes too far.  It means nothing if I tell you all what that breaking point is - you have to practice objectivity so you see it for yourself.  Intellectuals memorize tricks while intuitive people simply BE and SEE.

I think I see now why men don't understand women and think they're too complex.  Women are honest with their feelings and don't rationalize them away.  In their gut they know something is wrong although they know they shouldn't be the one having to correct it out of the man - this is what they want when they say, "can't you just get it?"  In that case the man can't possibly get it because he's long rationalized away the cause of the bad feelings.  He learned how to make excuses and ignore the bad feelings away.  Or he's learned to drink/drug them away or womanize them away with new women every few months.  There's an almost infinite number of words/ways you can use to ignore what's broken inside.

Sorry if I ramble on so much - one thing leads me into another.  If anyone doesn't understand something that bugs them, put it in a quote and I'll explain it more.  Give your thoughts or interpretation and I'll be happy to explain.  If I'm wrong, I invite all challengers.... I appreciate correction!

Anyway, Johndej, you're the closest one here to the kingdom of heaven (to use the phrases that the Christian people use).

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/13/22 2:25 p.m.

Women are more honest about their feelings? Have you ever had a women tell you she's fine? laugh

Hate SHOULD be unnecessary. But hate can be good. I try not to use hate towards people. I'm not going to give anything more of myself to such a person. I move on (as best I can.)

I reserve the word hate and its connotations for worthy things. Things like Racism, and misogyny, and child abuse. Things that deserve to be destroyed. But a person? Na, not worth it.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
10/13/22 3:14 p.m.

I'm not a big fan of the new down vote system.  I missed the interesting post, can't really comprehend the last post, but sure would like to see what sort of weirdness was there.

Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself PowerDork
10/13/22 3:18 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

You can unhide the post.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/13/22 3:33 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

I've been on FB for about 3 years and it has been a great way to keep in touch and reconnect.

Yes we do some times get horrible news via social media but I'd rather that then the 3am phone calls that someone just died.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/13/22 3:40 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

I tell my wife she is beautiful every day (because she is). When we go to sleep I say goodnight beautiful, every night..........we've been married 32 years. Pretty sure she likes the "smothering".............I get a great smile and hug before I head off to work every morning.

As for hate and ego..............I hate getting things really wrong because, yes, it wounds my ego. This motivates me to do better; no one wants to be known as a colossal screw up. Do I care what other people think about me, no. I care what I think about me.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/13/22 3:40 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

We have thoroughly hijacked David's thread. wink I encourage you to throw up a fresh thread. It would make for an interesting continuation.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/13/22 3:53 p.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

So in an effort to get us back on track:

Last month a friend posted up a pic of her 79 Raceinc BMX bike on FB and noted she could no longer ride it. I jokingly said she needed to sell it to me............she said she would but only for X amount of dollars, to which I agreed immediately.

When I called to work out the details turns out she was in a bit of a financial pickle and was terrible emotional state.  My best friend, who just passed, built the bike custom for her and I'm totally bummed he's gone (diabetes ain't not joke).  

In the end her problem is fixed and I have a nice memento that I can remember my friend by.....we are both in a happier place.

To David's point you never know where someone may be on a given day so checking on them may just make their day.  

 

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
10/13/22 3:58 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

I missed the interesting post, can't really comprehend the last post, but sure would like to see what sort of weirdness was there.

It can all be summed up by his statement that: "There's an almost infinite number of words/ways you can use to ignore what's broken inside." sad

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/13/22 5:00 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Which reminds me, I need to check up on my buddy Big Ry.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/13/22 5:00 p.m.
03Panther said:

In reply to Junkers :

If I was smart enough to understand anything you said, I wouldn't have had to ask if you really meant to be an azz hat, or not. I did not call you one. But since I used common language, you may have misunderstood. 
your follow up made even less sense, but I am not judging you. I merely asked a question. You may be too smart to explain to a backwoods guy like me, but it still comes across super negitive, to us normal folks. 

I never called you out personally for calling me any name.  You saw my original post as negative and it wasn't negative.  It did run counter to the theme of reaching out to your friends with love.  To summarize, I was saying, "why fawn over your friends - they could be scumbags and so can you for paying them complements for the wrong reasons."   I wasn't calling anyone a scumbag, but that label hurts.  It doesn't hurt any one of you, it hurts EGO and then it tricks one into thinking I said it TO YOU.  That converts me into ENEMY.  Then, people feel compelled to act and can't help themselves.  I'm explaining the mechanism right there.

I talked more about this in my second post.  There, I questioned the act of providing SUPPORTIVE love and compared it to the act of providing CORRECTIVE love.  But don't make the mistake of saying I'm either black or white.  Supportive love isn't always bad.  Praise and accolades aren't always bad.  Judgment makes things black/white or polar.  Discernment is much better and we should be using that word a lot more.

There's something about paying people respects or congradulations that can lead you to make them worse.  What if you happen to be praising a psychopathic person but you've always judged him a good guy?  Now he feels high.  In his mind he has the right to push around other people and use them.  You shouldn't have paid him a complement.  In a way, you become responsible for making him do evil things because you gave a bit more than you should.  What if you praise a person who always has to win?  What if you praise an important man because you secretly hope for him to recognize you in return.    That's a case of giving a complement to get one back and there's something slimy about that.

Some weak people who've suffered abuses may need that celebration or trophy or recognition.  Most of us ordinary people in the middle lie in some grey area where, depending on mood, need a pick-me-up or on the other hand need to be put back in our place.  It takes skill and that comes from watching yourself and others carefully.  It takes discernment and not judgment to play the right note at the right moment.

I hope that clears it up a bit.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/13/22 5:10 p.m.
Appleseed said:

In reply to Junkers :

We have thoroughly hijacked David's thread. wink I encourage you to throw up a fresh thread. It would make for an interesting continuation.

I didn't mean to hijack.  Can you imagine if I started a thread?  I just like to provoke some thought.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/13/22 5:14 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

Trust me, you should. There are an amazing variety of philosophies here.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/13/22 6:05 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to Junkers :

I tell my wife she is beautiful every day (because she is). When we go to sleep I say goodnight beautiful, every night..........we've been married 32 years. Pretty sure she likes the "smothering".............I get a great smile and hug before I head off to work every morning.

As for hate and ego..............I hate getting things really wrong because, yes, it wounds my ego. This motivates me to do better; no one wants to be known as a colossal screw up. Do I care what other people think about me, no. I care what I think about me.

Good Lord!  If your wife needs that kind of support each day, something's wrong.  She should be strong enough to need about one "I love you" a year without resenting you for not giving so infrequently.  Do me a favor and try telling her this: "I forgive you for everything wrong you've done to me."  If that makes you quake in fear for losing her, something's wrong.  Hell, you may have created a monster if she tries to tear your head off.  Now don't take what I've said as a personal attack, I'm only trying to help out.  You can't see that your story made me smile warmly because I know you want to be sweet to her.

Think about it, guys.  Women should be strong enough to hear you unfiltered but we're the ones who make them too delicate in our "loving" them.  They say communication is key, but what they mean is that conflict is key.  Conflict is super necessary for growth, but us men are too damn afraid.  The truth of the matter is that most women, I've found, enjoy (actually need)  a good fight and it's us who shrink away.  But how do you stand up to her?  If your wife can NEVER PROVOKE YOU into anger or judgment or resentment, ONLY THEN can you stand as a correction when she needs you most.  Yeah, you've gotta be perfect and that takes getting in touch with your intuition that you had as a child.  That always cues the mother of all excuses, "nobody's perfect."  Yeah, that's why you need to practice it.  Practice patience, practice feeling pain, practice feeling unloved, practice feeling loneliness, practice conflict, etc.  I'm not perfect, but I'm perfecting.  It's a direction, in this case not a destination.  Intuition makes you read people and situations in the NOW moment instead calling upon your intellect or bank of knowledge which is too slow and confusing.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/13/22 6:28 p.m.
Appleseed said:

Women are more honest about their feelings? Have you ever had a women tell you she's fine? laugh

Hate SHOULD be unnecessary. But hate can be good. I try not to use hate towards people. I'm not going to give anything more of myself to such a person. I move on (as best I can.)

I reserve the word hate and its connotations for worthy things. Things like Racism, and misogyny, and child abuse. Things that deserve to be destroyed. But a person? Na, not worth it.

Tell me she's fine when she's not?  Sure I have.  In some cases I may've said, "why are you lying?"  If you think about it, she is being honest with her feelings because you DEFINITELY get the message but the words tell you the opposite.  Many times talking with her about it makes her more upset.  I simply take it as an invitation to poke, prod, or tease it out of her.  "We have ways of making you talk, Mr. Bond."  It's more fun and lets her vent out the bad juju. 

edit to clarify above:  I'm saying that when her words go opposite of her body language, you have to speak to her in other ways outside of words because she just closed the door on words until she's ready for words again.  And let's not make anything dirty about that because I don't mean for you to take advantage of her.

Hate is bad energy and you can't have both bad and good energy and live long to tell about it.  It's unnecessary and destroys people - mostly the guy who uses it.  I get what you're saying though.  Hate is just so ineffective.  There are better ways than to gin-up hate energy to get motivated.  It's like asking the devil for help and like the mafia there's always a big price to pay for that help.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/13/22 7:25 p.m.
Junkers said:

Good Lord!  If your wife needs that kind of support each day, something's wrong.  She should be strong enough to need about one "I love you" a year without resenting you for not giving so infrequently.  Do me a favor and try telling her this: "I forgive you for everything wrong you've done to me."  If that makes you quake in fear for losing her, something's wrong.  

I find this hilarious:

A. My wife doesn't need anything from me. I adore and let her know every day. Besides she makes homemade pasta...........and that's all the appreciation I need.  

B. Forgive her............for what? She's a friggin saint.  She supports this stupid idiot hobby of mine. 

C. She's hot.............and after 32 years of it working well I surely won't be taking advise from some dude on the internet.

So bringing this back to David's original post whether it's your wife or a friend sometimes all they really you need is to know someone is thinking about them.

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/13/22 8:02 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

 "I never called you out personally for calling me any name."

Well I was one of the only two people you could have been talking about when you said two people called you names, so you might be able to see how I confused that. 
 

" I was saying, "why fawn over your friends - they could be scumbags"

when taken in context, us normal humans find that a very negative statement.

You did a bit better at phrasing your last few posts in a way us less enlightened, less intelligent people can understand. But still way above my simple head. What I did get, this round, is you are talking about stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the article written. 
I'll step out completely, and allow the thread to continue. 
(this means, incase you don't understand us lower life forms, no need to reply to me, I'll not be a part of... whatever this is)

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/13/22 8:39 p.m.

I'll skip the details but my wife went to check on a friend today and ended up having to call an ambulance................. So yeah check on your friends.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/14/22 4:37 p.m.
03Panther said:

In reply to Junkers :

 "I never called you out personally for calling me any name."

Well I was one of the only two people you could have been talking about when you said two people called you names, so you might be able to see how I confused that. 
 - No, you know you called me an "azz hat" and that's a name you were applying to me using a roundabout method.  It's clear what you were doing, we all know that trick.  I caused you to out yourself using your own guilt.  CLEARLY there were not only two posters besides me.  If that were the case, then I would have to be talking to only you and the other poster.  Nice try though.

" I was saying, "why fawn over your friends - they could be scumbags"

when taken in context, us normal humans find that a very negative statement.

- What's negative about that?  Why not ask why it hurts "normal humans"?  What is a normal human anyway?  Can a noise hurt a NORMAL human?  You might say it hurts MOST humans, but why?  Wouldn't you care to know how things work?  I'm a mechanic and I love learning how things work.

You did a bit better at phrasing your last few posts in a way us less enlightened, less intelligent people can understand. But still way above my simple head. What I did get, this round, is you are talking about stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the article written. 
I'll step out completely, and allow the thread to continue. 
(this means, incase you don't understand us lower life forms, no need to reply to me, I'll not be a part of... whatever this is

- I'm not an intellectual and you're not any less intelligent than me, you just have emotions which get in your way.  At this point I get the feeling you resent me and can't see straight enough to continue calmly so I'll quit with you.  I don't mean to pick on you or anyone here, I would've just rather people question me without being under the influence of emotions.  For that matter, I recommend that nobody drive a car or operate heavy machinery or cast a vote under the influence of emotions - they're deadly.

 

ralleah
ralleah GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/14/22 4:51 p.m.

There's a lot of talk about women in here from folks that aren't women. Lets not do that in this thread, please.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/14/22 5:08 p.m.
Tom1200 said:
Junkers said:

Good Lord!  If your wife needs that kind of support each day, something's wrong.  She should be strong enough to need about one "I love you" a year without resenting you for not giving so infrequently.  Do me a favor and try telling her this: "I forgive you for everything wrong you've done to me."  If that makes you quake in fear for losing her, something's wrong.  

I find this hilarious:

A. My wife doesn't need anything from me. I adore and let her know every day. Besides she makes homemade pasta...........and that's all the appreciation I need.  

B. Forgive her............for what? She's a friggin saint.  She supports this stupid idiot hobby of mine. 

C. She's hot.............and after 32 years of it working well I surely won't be taking advise from some dude on the internet.

So bringing this back to David's original post whether it's your wife or a friend sometimes all they really you need is to know someone is thinking about them.

You've helped me make my point of supportive love.  I thought you were simply saying sweet things about your wife, but that's not the case at all.  You shower her with praise so that you can get what you want out of her - sex, continued marriage, peace, whatever.  You can't live without her.  You'd be crushed if you lost her.  You wouldn't dare tell your wife that you forgive her because you're afraid. 

What you're doing to your wife each night is called praying to god.  Your wife is your god.  I'll give you an easier challenge, STOP praying to her each night for one week IF YOU DARE.  You see, praise is an opiate.  It loses its effect and more is necessary.  If she is addicted to your praise and gets something out of it, you'll be depriving her of her food.  Ah, but words are not food!  You will discover your wife has a big bad ego.

Now the funny thing to me is why you needed to degrade yourself in comparison to your wife.  You made yourself out to be Homer Simpson compared to her saintliness.  What hobby are you ashamed of and who are you calling stupid idiots for participating in it?    A real woman wouldn't want her husband degraded - if she wants you degraded, it's because she is in control of everything in your house and you.

You say that she's "hot".  You're no gentleman, sir.  To call your wife "hot" insults the mother of your children and her own father and mother and your children most of all.  Ask your children how they feel when you slurp all over their mother.  For that matter, do any of you wonder why most kids are embarrassed by their parents?  Usually it's because they know that daddy is just another one of mommy's kids.  She simply mothers him sexually and that embarrasses your kids.  Does that statement offend anyone?  GOOD, you need to be offended.  Men should seek to be cured of their improper relationship with sex.  Our fathers were guilty, but our grandfathers were not the sex addicts and perverts we've become in 2022 and they lived longer and required less healthcare.  Don't you people want to improve your miserable lives?

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/14/22 5:10 p.m.

I'll just put one simple question out there.  Drop all of your emotions and resentments and answer it honestly and plainly.

Why do humans need love?

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/14/22 5:39 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

I'll skip the details but my wife went to check on a friend today and ended up having to call an ambulance................. So yeah check on your friends.

Intuition is a beautiful thing.  When you get a feeling you should check on someone and they actually needed you, you can thank God for allowing you to help.

Ironically, the day before Dave wrote this article I called an old friend and we chatted about 45mins.  Useless chatter and she was just fine.  She wanted a few reassurances and affirmations that I couldn't give her.  I also told her she was wrong about a few things.  We're still friends.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/14/22 7:20 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

I find no respectful way to answer your diatribe so all I can say is.............dude your on crack.

EDIT:

This post was a wonderful "spare a thought for a fellow human being" you'd do well to stick with that. 

 

 

Spitsix
Spitsix GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
10/14/22 9:54 p.m.

Wow - three heavy hitters

Kas Kastner, Kirk F. White and Mike Cook!

 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/14/22 9:57 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Easy to explain. Everything he says is correct, even if he has to change the subject and introduce random info to "prove" it. He can automatically know everything about our thoughts, motivations and relationships, even if he has to make it all up. He knows how much smarter than all of us, so it's ok to be condensending, cause he's the only one who understands, and we're just emotionally stunted. 
And it's ok for him to interject random info, since nothing was related to O. P.'s post in the first place. 
What little I was smart enough to understand, that's what I got. 
Or maybe he knows me so well (advanced beings can read my mind, right?) that I'm just too emotionally damaged to understand him, like he told me)

Maybe if we all never respond to his drivel, he'll stop. One can hope. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/14/22 11:23 p.m.
Junkers said:

I'll just put one simple question out there.  Drop all of your emotions and resentments and answer it honestly and plainly.

Why do humans need love?

They don't need it. It helps make life a lot better though.  They want it.  
 

 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/15/22 12:03 a.m.

So I took David's advice; my best friend past away 7 months ago and I hadn't talked to his wife for a couple of months. I called her tonight and we're  going to stop and see her tomorrow.

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/15/22 12:45 a.m.
Tom1200 said:

So I took David's advice; my best friend past away 7 months ago and I hadn't talked to his wife for a couple of months. I called her tonight and we're  going to stop and see her tomorrow.

Oh, no! She could be a scumbag, and fawning over her would... well, I have no clue what it would do. 
Personally, I think she will apreacate it. 
 

Ok, I'll try to stop, now!laugh

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/15/22 11:56 p.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

I was best man at their wedding and yes she appreciates it. 

ralleah
ralleah GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/16/22 1:00 a.m.

That's great, Tom :)

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/16/22 4:55 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to 03Panther :

I was best man at their wedding and yes she appreciates it. 

I assume you know I was just being silly... (is that a good word for it?) 

All reasonable folks know you're doing a good thing. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/16/22 6:16 p.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

The satire was not lost on me.......and it was appreciated given a Mr Amateur Frued's posts.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/16/22 8:31 p.m.
Appleseed said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

Which reminds me, I need to check up on my buddy Big Ry.

Big Ry is doing well.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/16/22 9:13 p.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

My buddies widow is doing as best as can be expected; we spent about an hour with her.

Kudos to David for the original post.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/17/22 11:29 a.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Junkers said:

I'll just put one simple question out there.  Drop all of your emotions and resentments and answer it honestly and plainly.

Why do humans need love?

They don't need it. It helps make life a lot better though.  They want it.  
 

 

Not so.  Humans DO need love.  Think more about it and then try to answer the question of why we need love.

Patrick
Patrick GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/17/22 3:41 p.m.
Junkers said:

This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.

Show/hide post

 

Why do people fawn over their friends/family, whether living or dead?  It's a waste of time and it sets you up to fail by causing you to fall to judgement.  Worse yet, you get trapped into feeding a dirty ego - first yours so you can hope for them to feed yours. 

It may be a Polish saying - i don't remember - but it seems to fit the bill here, "Every monster has a lover."

 

I'm sorry for whoever hurt you, it must be very painful. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/17/22 4:10 p.m.

"I came for the cars and stayed for the people"

Racers are good people and I love hanging out with them...............they're worth checking in on.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
10/17/22 4:19 p.m.

Prayed for three friends and checked on two today. I don't know what in the world happened to this thread, but apparently I need to do better at checking on my GRM friends. Some of them are -not- OK.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
10/17/22 8:59 p.m.
Junkers said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Junkers said:

I'll just put one simple question out there.  Drop all of your emotions and resentments and answer it honestly and plainly.

Why do humans need love?

They don't need it. It helps make life a lot better though.  They want it.  
 

 

Not so.  Humans DO need love.  Think more about it and then try to answer the question of why we need love.

Not a need.  Oxygen, water, food and shelter those are needs.  There are plenty of hermits too.  Humans thrive with love, but it's not a need.  You could argue there is less love in the world today and we see the effect on society.  It's still not a need.  

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/17/22 10:09 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

People in long term loving relationships live longer........I'd call it a need.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/18/22 3:02 p.m.

If you ever think YOU are not capable of racism, slavery, genocide, etc. think again!  It's inside of each one of the cowards who've brigaded against me - and I've brought it out of each of them.  Scroll up and you'll see that multiple posts of mine have been hidden by excessive downvotes.  Open them and you'll see I've directed no negative energy toward anyone here.  I've drawn out the bad energy within each of my attackers (only two) but they've gathered an army of cowards to vote me down and hide my posts - it was the only power they've had.  I've nothing wrong and everything right.  The only rule I could've broken is to NOT FLATTER PEOPLE'S EGOS?  GRM has also not banned me - good for them.

Notice how my detractors talked toward one another in agreement against me.  They can't converse with me in a sane or rational or calm state because their ego tricked them into making me the enemy -and the enemy must be KILLED to SAVE the ego.  In their error of judging me, they've found no positive, profitable energy they can benefit from.  (They were shouting at the walls and banging on their keyboards at me but it didn't get them a good feeling so they had to conjure up a good feeling from another person on this forum.   It is THIS which REQUIRES the "judge" to seek positive affirmation from another fellow sinner - another fellow "judge."  Have you ever seen monkeys form a coalition against a strong enemy?  This is the point in which both judges feel good (feel god) about themselves - but the paradox is that they couldn't do that without the help of the other sinner.  Isn't that fascinating?  What energy did they conjure up and realize?  Was it good energy (god energy) or wicked/evil/hate energy?  The BIG POINT of what I've been driving at has now been proven once again:  MONSTERS RUB EACH OTHERS' SLIMY BACKS.  This is the love that theives and robbers shower each other with.  One guy has an impure motive to flatter the other guy because he wishes to receive an equal and opposite flattery.  Mr T above and Mr P above have now become good friends because as they say, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend (fiend)."  They both come back at me distorting my words so that I sound like I've been saying, "don't check up on your friends... that's bad,"  but I never said that or meant anything like that.  Emotional people are like communists - they see only black and white in everything.

So the bad part about a true democracy is that the majority can vote laws against the minority.  WWII Germany was a nation of laws.  Unfortunately it became illegal to exist while being Jewish for a portion of that history.  Some people wanna make it illegal to show them their own ugliness.

So if you've downvoted me, come out and apologize to me and you'll be a real man.  Then, I will forgive you entirely and we can be real friends.  If you're not sorry for your downvote, sleep good tonight: You're a coward and I got you.

And to Mr. "T" above, I got you best of all.  I'll bet I've seriously put a damper on you praying to your wife each night.  She needs you to stand up to her with well-timed correction, she doesn't need a court jester.  Every time you shower her with your kind of perverse love, you'll think of me joining with your conscience to poison the praise-fest.  Give up the wife worship: It's not good for you and not good for her.

Meanwhile, innocent little truthteller me has only hurt and damaged EGOS and not people.  EGOs are not people, but they need people to give them a home and feed them with evil energy.  And the only choice you have in this life is to be allied with good energy or bad energy.  Choosing bad energy only shortens life.

Furthermore, to really drive in the last runners on base, during this whole thread I've never felt a high from trouncing anyone or a low from the downvotes, brigading, smears, or defamations.  Don't YOU all want to have that power?  I'm passing it out for free and I've got no takers!  That's how powerful the ego is: If I wake you up, you'll begin starving it to death.  And hating me only hurts you more.  Take care now.  Watch that anger/resentment.  If you're lucky you'll suffer a few bad nights of sleep.  If you're not, you'll suffer a car wreck or something worse.  I hope not.  Only you have the power of choice.  Remember, give up the hate (but you can't do it).

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/18/22 3:28 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

I think you have the wrong forum: Grass Roots Mental-health is the next room over.

I suggest you venture over there; it's full of amateur psychologists and philosophers such as yourself.

Should you wish to contribute in a meaningful way to David's fine post I'm sure you'd be welcome here...........if not I'm sure Majorie the great slayer of trolls will be along shortly.

PS My wife is still a friggin saint..............she made a  pot roast for dinner while I tinkered with my race car........Slan, Amadan.

Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself PowerDork
10/18/22 3:29 p.m.

Vajingo, is that you??

 

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/18/22 3:38 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Junkers said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Junkers said:

I'll just put one simple question out there.  Drop all of your emotions and resentments and answer it honestly and plainly.

Why do humans need love?

They don't need it. It helps make life a lot better though.  They want it.  
 

 

Not so.  Humans DO need love.  Think more about it and then try to answer the question of why we need love.

Not a need.  Oxygen, water, food and shelter those are needs.  There are plenty of hermits too.  Humans thrive with love, but it's not a need.  You could argue there is less love in the world today and we see the effect on society.  It's still not a need.  

Well, is an immune system a need?  It certainly provides a need.  Yeah, you can live as a hermit, but you can't live healthy or have any sort of purpose in life.  The Unabomber was a worst-case hermit, while most others are useless to themselves, others and humanity.  Humans need love to be healthy and fulfill a real purpose in life.  I think Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs may help me make my point on this matter - no point in my boring you with it.  Now take a newborn baby and supply all of its needs through a robotic mother so it gets no love.  Personally, I don't know what would happen, but it won't be pretty!  Maybe the kid dies!?

As a side point: Humans are much more than animals - even the animal kingdom testifies to that:  No animal will attack a human who holds the proper energy.  They WILL attack humans with weak energy (fear, anger, doubtful people, unfocused people, etc.).  I'm glad you can see that there is less love in the world - I can agree with you there.  Animals certainly do not need love.  For that matter, a 3-legged dog is as "happy" as any 4-legged dog.  So that begs the question, "what is happiness?"  Perhaps it relates to love?  Let's not go there quite yet.

Going back to the newborn baby:  What kind of love shall we give the baby?  I've identified supportive love and made it separate from corrective love.  What does the real mother supply her newborn baby with?  Well, it's a sort of nurturing love, isn't it?  Is it supportive?  Is it corrective?  Perhaps some degree of both?  Let's say mother does some "helicopter parenting" and protects baby from all potential damage.  I'd argue that is more of the supportive kind of love where mother acts like a set of crutches that never come off -sounds exhausting being that momma!  Now let's take the opposite form of corrective love in the form of a stern father: In the hands of stern daddy away from mother, the newborn gets all of his needs but he gets no "love" from daddy.  He's only receiving attention from daddy when he does something wrong because daddy only gives the corrective form of love to whack him back into shape.  If he truly does not need supportive love, he'll grow up healthy and happy and fulfill his mission in life by only receiving daddy's corrective love.   Really, it's more likely this kid grows up to hate his overbearing, cold-hearted daddy.  So when you are missing a proper balance of love from father and mother, you'll live but you won't be healthy in the true sense.

Have I made a pretty good case for every child needing both a father and mother here?  Whoops!  There I go again offending people.  (I say they need to be offended)

So Anthony, do you agree?  Any fault in what I've said?  Stop me here before we go on.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/18/22 3:48 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to Junkers :

I think you have the wrong forum: Grass Roots Mental-health is the next room over.

I suggest you venture over there; it's full of amateur psychologists and philosophers such as yourself.

Should you wish to contribute in a meaningful way to David's fine post I'm sure you'd be welcome here...........if not I'm sure Majorie the great slayer of trolls will be along shortly.

PS My wife is still a friggin saint..............she made a  pot roast for dinner while I tinkered with my race car........Slan, Amadan.

Your wife is your god, not your saint.  Now go tell her that you forgive her.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/18/22 3:49 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

People in long term loving relationships live longer........I'd call it a need.

I agree with you, Tom.  Now can we be friends?

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/18/22 3:51 p.m.
Junkers said:
Tom1200 said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

People in long term loving relationships live longer........I'd call it a need.

I agree with you, Tom.  Now can we be friends?

Sure, I have lots of friends who can't seem to stay on topic.

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/18/22 3:56 p.m.

I jumped into the last page of this thread, and...

...its very strange in here.

Junkers
Junkers New Reader
10/18/22 4:08 p.m.
Tom1200 said:
Junkers said:
Tom1200 said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

People in long term loving relationships live longer........I'd call it a need.

I agree with you, Tom.  Now can we be friends?

Sure, I have lots of friends who can't seem to stay on topic.

Nice!

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
10/18/22 6:29 p.m.

In reply to Junkers :

And there in lies the problem with the hidden-post downvote system... When someone experiences enough of it, they tend to see it through a self-victimizing lens of persecution, rather than the subtle guiding 'corrective loving' suggestion that perhaps some additional self-reflection and introspection may be prudent... As it was actually intended to be. 

If it really pains your EGO that much for your judgmental beliefs (which are just being used to try hiding that which is broken inside) to not be the center of discussion, please just start your own thread in the off-topic section where it can all be delved into more deeply and appropriately.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
10/18/22 7:12 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I'll defer to Maslow on that one. 
 

is it as core as food? No. Is it a need? Yes. But maybe you're not ready to handle the truth. (Yes that's a joke.)

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/18/22 7:24 p.m.

In reply to dculberson :

belonging and loving takes precedence.............why?

My wife makes sure I don't do anything really stupid.....safety

She makes sure I eat right; without her I'd live on a steady diet of hot dogs and pork rinds.......physiology.

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
10/18/22 7:55 p.m.

Maybe I wasn't clear on that one. That is maslows hierarchy of needs. Love is third only behind addressing our physiological and safety needs which makes it very much a need.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
10/18/22 7:58 p.m.
Spitsix said:

Wow - three heavy hitters

Kas Kastner, Kirk F. White and Mike Cook!

 

I know! All were also always kind and generous with their time.

I know that we often don't enjoy talking about death, but at the same time, we should remember those who did good. 

May their memory be a blessing. 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/18/22 8:53 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

Should you wish to contribute in a meaningful way to David's fine post I'm sure you'd be welcome here...

Not one word uttered by him so far has been relevant. I doubt he has enough courtesy for all us unenlightened unwashed masses to be considerate this point.

Remember, he doesn't have to, since it's just that we are not capable of understanding. 

03Panther
03Panther PowerDork
10/18/22 9:06 p.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

In this case, the down votes seem to be putting across exactly what it appears. Seems like no one here thinks his bairly intelligible drivel is related to the original post. 
It's just not a conspiracy, like he has to tell himself. 
As a disclaimer, I only check back from time to time to see the positive things of the O. P. I have not touched down vote (haven't needed to) and have no clue who has. 
He has been asked to start his own thread, but apparently does not have enough consideration to do so. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
10/18/22 9:10 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

A friend of mine is a long time GT-6 racer and befriended Kas Kastner he has nothing but glowing words about him.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
10/18/22 9:15 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Kas would always–always–reply with the kindest e-mails. Ditto Mike Cook.

We just had a death in the family. It does cause you to pause.  

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
10/18/22 9:18 p.m.

And sorta related to all of this, I just got a postcard–like an actual, hand-written postcard–from a college friend. She just wanted to say that she was glad that we made it through the hurricane. 

You can't put a price on that. 

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