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stroker
stroker UltraDork
4/15/19 7:57 a.m.

has anyone ever entered the Challenge with a Jag?

84FSP
84FSP SuperDork
4/15/19 8:21 a.m.

I thought Yudipit had an XJR that was bought well enough to challenge it.  Not sure if he ever did or not.  I would go with SBC swapped older generation or modded XJR.

stroker
stroker UltraDork
4/15/19 8:29 a.m.
84FSP said:

I thought Yudipit had an XJR that was bought well enough to challenge it.  Not sure if he ever did or not.  I would go with SBC swapped older generation or modded XJR.

You mean like...

THIS ONE?

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
4/15/19 9:16 a.m.

In reply to stroker :

I did not need to see that!  It's too close for comfort.

Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day dreaming and plotting about going to pick that up, only to come to the (sad) conclusion that I don't need another project.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
4/15/19 10:33 a.m.

My 98 xjr was purchased on this board and is still challenge eligible. It is currently sitting as my backup car this year and would be poised to be a strong contender for gastropod (I think).

I've often joked with my buddy that my best challenge candidate (the xjr) never comes to the challenge with me. Instead my wife drives it to work. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/15/19 11:19 a.m.

In reply to stroker :

That is a very heavy ( 4600 pounds)  big car with typically 190 horsepower Chevy small block 350 V8 instead of the 160 horsepower Six cylinder DOHC the early ones had or 210 that last fuel injected ones have.   The V12’s  make more power than Small block V8’s  by 60 - 120 horsepower and are built with real race grade parts.  In addition the final drive ratio is 3:07 or later a 2:88 

None of that says fast for auto cross or drag racing.  

The problem with Jaguars tends to be electrical/ electronics rather than the engine.  There is nearly 100 pounds of wiring to sort through.  Plus the fuel system has a few tricks to sort out.  Especially difficult post 1975 when they went to fuel injection. 

Early Jaguar fuel injection basically used 3 Bosch fuel injection units until they got their Lucas system sorted.  It’s actually relatively easy to work with but it’s all analog, nothing digital until late in production. 

Rubber on anything that old will have long passed its useful date.  That’s where so many mistakes are made.  There is a right rubber and a wrong rubber for most applications.  Too easy to use the wrong stuff with all sorts of problems resulting.   

The Transmission is a Borg Warner on six cylinders and early V12’s  GM Turbo 400 on post 1978 V12’s. The heavy duty version used in ambulances and heavy duty trucks. But the casting is unique to Jaguar. 

The rear end is Dana 44 so it’s extremely robust but the rear brakes are tiny and inboard until about 1988 on certain models.  1993 on others. 

stroker
stroker UltraDork
4/15/19 12:02 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Killjoy.  cheeky

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
4/15/19 12:46 p.m.
stroker said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Killjoy.  cheeky

A 200-300 wet shot of nitrous with the button under a Grey Poupon cap would bring that joy right on back.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
4/15/19 1:04 p.m.

A Chevy 350 made 190hp due to smog controls. I doubt they moved a fully smogged motor into a Jag. 300hp is easy peasy, more is just a small check away.

stroker
stroker UltraDork
4/15/19 1:11 p.m.

Yeah, but I fear that Frenchy is correct and that you'd find a whole buncha rubber stuff on that thing needing replacement that would kill your budget.  I still love the idea of rolling phat into the Challenge Concourse judging with a nice XJ6 and a SBC rumble...

 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
4/15/19 1:35 p.m.
Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
4/15/19 1:37 p.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/d/oxford-2003-jaguar/6859915872.html

That sure looks like a manaul transmission:

 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
4/15/19 1:42 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

If you want Jag, V8 Rumble, and a Good showing at the challenge, buy the car linked below (for $1500), add hood & fender and cut off exhaust.

 

Linky to craigslist ad

It has a Super Charged V8 with factory 370hp and was faster than a base C5 when they were both new.

Seller says it runs.  It has taken everything I can muster to Not go buy it already.  (see post above about not needing another project)

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/15/19 2:31 p.m.
Robbie said:
stroker said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Killjoy.  cheeky

A 200-300 wet shot of nitrous with the button under a Grey Poupon cap would bring that joy right on back.

Did you see the time when a Cheap old Jag V12 beat  new, Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette etc  with the simple addition of a 150 hp shot of nitrous?  

Top Gear had it and it’s still on U tube. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/15/19 2:35 p.m.
dculberson said:

A Chevy 350 made 190hp due to smog controls. I doubt they moved a fully smogged motor into a Jag. 300hp is easy peasy, more is just a small check away.

It works pretty well the same way with the Jaguar. Take the smog off and there is some serious power to be found.  Without the need to do all the adapting etc.  

Or if you want you could toss a couple of EBay T3 sized Turbo’s on a V12, a MS,  burn E85 and be around 600 hp  

 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/15/19 3:25 p.m.
Indy-Guy said:

In reply to stroker :

If you want Jag, V8 Rumble, and a Good showing at the challenge, buy the car linked below (for $1500), add hood & fender and cut off exhaust.

 

Linky to craigslist ad

It has a Super Charged V8 with factory 370hp and was faster than a base C5 when they were both new.

Seller says it runs.  It has taken everything I can muster to Not go buy it already.  (see post above about not needing another project)

Am I mistaken or are “Cart” type cars now allowed in the challenge,  That would be an easy way to lose a lot of weight and bulk 

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
4/15/19 3:27 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Guess your going to have to just stop using words and build that $2000 kick ass Jaguar for the Challenge.   Show us all how awesome they are.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/15/19 3:30 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

The car to do it with is still sitting in the driveway waiting.  

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
4/15/19 3:35 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Don't give the naysayers a chance to make jokes about a Jag to that never leaves the driveway. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/16/19 6:42 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Fair enough, let’s revue a budget to ensure I will comply with the rules.  ( Hopefully if approved it will be valid for several years because that is likely what it will take me in my retirement to finish the car and get sufficient funds together to travel to Florida). 

First The car was listed in Craigslist for $500 with a new in the box MS system.  Based on that I can sell off parts for up to $250.

Oops!  Maybe I can game the system?  If I buy  newer Square model Jaguar that sells  under $1000 I get the bigger engine with the bigger/better oiling system and it has a far better one piece rear seal. Plus outboard rear brakes and a few other neat pieces.  So can I put those pieces into my XJS ?  1/2 of $1000 is $500 starting price.  

I can easily sell more than the $500 I paid for my XJS  making the body free only worth the value of scrap?  

I have a replacement Transmission  I own as labor to swap transmissions.  That was done back the 1980’s, took 5 hours and my shop rate back then was $20/ hr. So I add it at $100? 

I bulk bought gasket sets back then too with 100 sets I got distributor costs. I have 2&1/2 sets left unsold so the set I use to take apart and freshen the engine is worth $24?  I did similar things  to a fair bit of race stuff. Plus I have shelves and boxes full of good useable parts.  I assume I add those at the prices I originally paid?  

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
4/16/19 7:28 a.m.

You are correct on gaskets and gas for the undercoating.

You can recover up to $500 on your purchase and $1000 total for the entire budget so that $400 is all recoverable. 

I’m 99% sure labor in exchange for parts/vehicle has been ruled to be the state minimum wage so 5 x State minimum wage at the time. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/16/19 7:32 a.m.
dculberson said:

A Chevy 350 made 190hp due to smog controls. I doubt they moved a fully smogged motor into a Jag. 300hp is easy peasy, more is just a small check away.

A quick set of e-mails and phone calls to Wheels would have you north of 300hp.  Well north given he's doing the 1/4 in ~10 seconds.  

WRT the challenge, it's far cheaper to make big power with a V8 than the V12 or the I6.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/16/19 8:18 a.m.
  • I In reply to alfadriver :

I suspect you are wrong.  

First  370 horsepower gross was all  Chevy got out of their very racy LT1  engine.  In those days a little Jaguar 3.8 liter six made 265 gross horsepower.  Getting 370 net horsepower didn’t happen until well into the LS series of engines.  The performance versions of those are getting up in price. Then there is the cost of tearing them apart to put the racy stuff in. Can it be done on a Challenge budget?  

What would a Chevy V8 and Transmission modified to make 5-600 horsepower  cost installed in a Jaguar?  

 

However with Jaguar V12’s a lot of them got put away because the Jaguar shop is very expensive.  A little knowledge like make the gas tank selector work etc will get you a lot of car.  A pair of EBay T3 turbo’s with wastegates will cost you around $600.  Use E85 and you are around 600 horsepower.  In  Jaguar with all aluminum block/ heads water pump etc etc  plus a Forged crankshaft  and Rods made of the same steel they use in Cosworth  formula 1 cars  

Then  you’d need to add the ARP quality head and main studs  

 

 

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
4/16/19 9:05 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I want to build a Jaguar challenge car with you. Seriously. Like I would absolutely love to build this twin turbo e85 v12.

But honestly I think the v12 might be the wrong direction (for challenge purposes) Putting that $1500 wrecked xjr into a stripped $500 xjs, however...

If only the xjs wasn't so darn ugly. It's like the only ugly jag too.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/16/19 9:18 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Have you seen how fast Andrew's cars have been doing the drag race at the Challenge???  

It's not an opinion, it is fact- and has happened for at most of the Challenges since 2004.  

I challenge you to make a sub 11 second Jag on a challenge budget.  A sub 11 sec Chevy motor car has been done multiple times, which tells me they are making much more power than you think.

Not by me, but it's been there, done that.  

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