Fair market value for Jaguar junk.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

For example, this complete one sold for less than $549: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254900783784?hash=item3b59454aa8:g:e~EAAOSwPCtdHu2x
 

I agree that completed sales on eBay are a great way to establish FMV, and the rules also say this. 

I do want to note however, that one you linked sold for less than $549 PLUS $300 shipping. Shipping is included in challenge parts purchases, so thats more like $750, probably. 

I'll sell you a complete rear end for $750 and include shipping.  What's your address?   How many do you want?   

Calvin gets good deals. He isn't in here making weak attempts at Fair Market Value hoodwinks. 

You seem to know a lot about Calvin but yet are unable to learn from him. 

Cuda said:

Mr_Asa said:

frenchyd said:

Mr_Asa said:

It sounds like you haven't tried to sell anything in a decade or more?  If so, I'm gonna say that none of your previous pricing is going to be valid as a good faith attempt at a sale.

Honestly, looking at what you've posted here in this thread and the complete lack of information, even if I needed Jag parts I'd pass on your ad.  What year is everything? What car did they come from? Mechanical condition, gear ratios, etc.

If I saw an ad with this:

____________

Jaguar rear end. Assembly complete. Although taken apart. Needle bearing assemblies removed etc.  knock off hubs, good splines. Undamaged threads. 
drive shaft. Engine assembly, with transmission,   Radiator. Front suspension crossmember.  
pictures to follow. 

_______________

And thats it, I'd know that it would be like pulling teeth to get more info.

Are you seriously interested?   If so I'll tell you everything I know.  Which is massively more than most people on the subject.  
  It's like I'm going to build a Corvette except I'm starting with a bunch of Impala parts.  
 This stuff is bound for a dumpster when I pass.  I want to turn it into an XKE  race car.  I've got fiberglass molds for much of it.  Easy enough to make the few   I'm missing. 

Why, in the holy name of berkeley, would you think I am interested?  I specifically said that given the dearth of details I would not be interested in your ad.

Again, work on your reading comprehension.

"BLAH BLAH BLAH... I am interested?  I ...would .. be interested in your ad.

BLAH BLAH BLAH"

I can see where he is coming from. It is pretty easy to see where he got confused.

May be easy to get confused if you have reading comprehension as good as frenchy's, I guess.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Calvin gets good deals. He isn't in here making weak attempts at Fair Market Value hoodwinks. 

You seem to know a lot about Calvin but yet are unable to learn from him. 

It seems he buys at fair market value.  From various junkyards. I've never heard him say I really stole this or this one was given to me.   In General from what I see he's at market price.  
    Same as all of us.  This isn't lead with your wallet racing. It's grass roots.  I know you're not willing to pay top of the market prices. Frankly neither am I. We are all grass roots. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to Lof8 - Andy :

Thanks I already have a couple. But I don't have a recept for them.  Price wise I think they are less than $50. So is that your value?   

You did decline my trade offer, so it seems your pile of "junk" is worth more than my kill switch.  

Mr_Asa said:

Cuda said:

Mr_Asa said:

frenchyd said:

Mr_Asa said:

It sounds like you haven't tried to sell anything in a decade or more?  If so, I'm gonna say that none of your previous pricing is going to be valid as a good faith attempt at a sale.

Honestly, looking at what you've posted here in this thread and the complete lack of information, even if I needed Jag parts I'd pass on your ad.  What year is everything? What car did they come from? Mechanical condition, gear ratios, etc.

If I saw an ad with this:

____________

Jaguar rear end. Assembly complete. Although taken apart. Needle bearing assemblies removed etc.  knock off hubs, good splines. Undamaged threads. 
drive shaft. Engine assembly, with transmission,   Radiator. Front suspension crossmember.  
pictures to follow. 

_______________

And thats it, I'd know that it would be like pulling teeth to get more info.

Are you seriously interested?   If so I'll tell you everything I know.  Which is massively more than most people on the subject.  
  It's like I'm going to build a Corvette except I'm starting with a bunch of Impala parts.  
 This stuff is bound for a dumpster when I pass.  I want to turn it into an XKE  race car.  I've got fiberglass molds for much of it.  Easy enough to make the few   I'm missing. 

Why, in the holy name of berkeley, would you think I am interested?  I specifically said that given the dearth of details I would not be interested in your ad.

Again, work on your reading comprehension.

"BLAH BLAH BLAH... I am interested?  I ...would .. be interested in your ad.

BLAH BLAH BLAH"

I can see where he is coming from. It is pretty easy to see where he got confused.

May be easy to get confused if you have reading comprehension as good as frenchy's, I guess.

You just made my point.  I honestly and kindly asked you if you wanted details.  Which I would gladly provide.  
  Instead you've gone to gang up on Frenchy.
  There is a rule.  Don't be a jerk.  
   I'm trying to get a fair market value so I can build a car that meets the challenge rules.  Actual truth,  I've got no expense in most of this stuff. It's just remnants of  past work.  
  I can still build the car  and race undocumented. So if you hesitate for some reason?  
      
 

frenchyd said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Calvin gets good deals. He isn't in here making weak attempts at Fair Market Value hoodwinks. 

You seem to know a lot about Calvin but yet are unable to learn from him. 

It seems he buys at fair market value.  From various junkyards. I've never heard him say I really stole this or this one was given to me.   In General from what I see he's at market price.  
    Same as all of us.  This isn't lead with your wallet racing. It's grass roots.  I know you're not willing to pay top of the market prices. Frankly neither am I. We are all grass roots. 

It's my understanding that if you can buy something without special treatment, that's the value of the part. If Calvin is buying parts, he and the seller have agreed on the value and that is the market price for the part pretty much by definition. Hard bargaining or clever shopping is allowed. Getting a special price from a friend is not.

FMV only comes into effect when you're trying to value something you have sitting on your shelf, when you are both the buyer and seller - or when the seller is giving you a deal that nobody else could get. Obviously the temptation is to undervalue it, which is why you have to document how you came up with the value. If everyone's saying your pile of Jag parts is worth scrap metal price, it sounds to me like that's in your favor.

In reply to frenchyd :

Yes, don't be a jerk.  Except you stated you've read the rules, then the rules were posted for you and explained, and you have yet to actually follow the rules.  Far as I'm concerned you're being the jerk for wasting our time.

No one is going to suggest a price for you.  YOU have to do that, as stated by the rules, then at least 5 people agree.

You want people stop being jerks to you? Stop trying to jerk us around.

Swear to all that is holy, if you spent half the time on building as you do at trying to find loopholes you would beat everyone at the Challenge.

frenchyd said:

   I'm trying to get a fair market value so I can build a car that meets the challenge rules.  Actual truth,  I've got no expense in most of this stuff. It's just remnants of  past work.  
  I can still build the car  and race undocumented. So if you hesitate for some reason?     
 

Want FMV for what you are building with? Can't use what you paid? Do the work. Each Specific part you want a value of, give details. Let us know what you Claim the value to be. Or if possible find sold examples for each of them and document value.

Otherwise you are just being a jerk trying to get other people to do the work for you.

I am usually entertained by Frenchy threads. Almost always regret posting in them.

I don't think I've ever seen the Nelsons ask for an fmv valuation. They're out there hunting the deals and building E36 M3 from scrap metal. 
 

im going to add a couple of tips

-when a competitor is forced to "fmv" a part, it's not going to work out as well as finding and documenting a great purchase on the same part

-don't use terms like "junk", "crap" etc in your fmv thread.  This is an obvious sign you want to undervalue the stuff. We're smarter than that. 

-you could never build a Challenge car by fmv'ing every part.  You have to find the bargains. 
 

-I think the stuff you've got does not have a real high value, but it's not 0 and it's probably higher than scrap value, but not by much. So YOU propose the realistic fmv
 

If you told me you bought that pile of parts for $100, I wouldn't even blink. I'd believe you. But putting a fmv on it is not the same situation. 

Lof8 - Andy said:

I don't think I've ever seen the Nelsons ask for an fmv valuation. They're out there hunting the deals and building E36 M3 from scrap metal. 
 

im going to add a couple of tips

-when a competitor is forced to "fmv" a part, it's not going to work out as well as finding and documenting a great purchase on the same part

-don't use terms like "junk", "crap" etc in your fmv thread.  This is an obvious sign you want to undervalue the stuff. We're smarter than that. 

-you could never build a Challenge car by fmv'ing every part.  You have to find the bargains. 
 

-I think the stuff you've got does not have a real high value, but it's not 0 and it's probably higher than scrap value, but not by much. So YOU propose the realistic fmv
 

If you told me you bought that pile of parts for $100, I wouldn't even blink. I'd believe you. But putting a fmv on it is not the same situation. 

Thank you.  I apologize, I have  declared the value and what I thought justified it. But I've done it one by one answering, responding to posts.  I'll go back and modify my original. claim $300. And the reason is if I came into a scrap dealer with these parts I'd get $50-80.  But it's worth more than that to me.   Much more and I can buy another Junk Jaguar and pull parts. ?  
  Is that fair?  
     

Lof8 - Andy said:

If you told me you bought that pile of parts for $100, I wouldn't even blink. I'd believe you. But putting a fmv on it is not the same situation. 

At this point, after these shenanigans and others, I'd blink 

frenchyd said:

Lof8 - Andy said:

I don't think I've ever seen the Nelsons ask for an fmv valuation. They're out there hunting the deals and building E36 M3 from scrap metal. 
 

im going to add a couple of tips

-when a competitor is forced to "fmv" a part, it's not going to work out as well as finding and documenting a great purchase on the same part

-don't use terms like "junk", "crap" etc in your fmv thread.  This is an obvious sign you want to undervalue the stuff. We're smarter than that. 

-you could never build a Challenge car by fmv'ing every part.  You have to find the bargains. 
 

-I think the stuff you've got does not have a real high value, but it's not 0 and it's probably higher than scrap value, but not by much. So YOU propose the realistic fmv
 

If you told me you bought that pile of parts for $100, I wouldn't even blink. I'd believe you. But putting a fmv on it is not the same situation. 

Thank you.  I apologize, I have  declared the value and what I thought justified it. But I've done it one by one answering, responding to posts.  I'll go back and modify my original. claim $300. And the reason is if I came into a scrap dealer with these parts I'd get $50-80.  But it's worth more than that to me.   Much more and I can buy another Junk Jaguar and pull parts. ?  
  Is that fair?  
     

You offered a rear end to Robbie for $750 in this thread.

$300 for all that is gonna be a no from me.

Jaguar rear end. Assembly complete. Although taken apart. Needle bearing assemblies removed etc.  knock off hubs, good splines. Undamaged threads. 
drive shaft. Engine assembly, with transmission,   Radiator. Front suspension crossmember.  

In the pictures you show 2 v12 engines, and a stack of extra heads. I assume you are only including 1 engine in the deal, and no extra heads. I also assume that the transmission you mention is an automatic that came with the v12 out of whichever jag you pulled it from. 

For $300 I'd like to be first in line to buy the whole pile from you. I will come pick it up. 

Keith Tanner said:

frenchyd said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Calvin gets good deals. He isn't in here making weak attempts at Fair Market Value hoodwinks. 

You seem to know a lot about Calvin but yet are unable to learn from him. 

It seems he buys at fair market value.  From various junkyards. I've never heard him say I really stole this or this one was given to me.   In General from what I see he's at market price.  
    Same as all of us.  This isn't lead with your wallet racing. It's grass roots.  I know you're not willing to pay top of the market prices. Frankly neither am I. We are all grass roots. 

It's my understanding that if you can buy something without special treatment, that's the value of the part. If Calvin is buying parts, he and the seller have agreed on the value and that is the market price for the part pretty much by definition. Hard bargaining or clever shopping is allowed. Getting a special price from a friend is not.

FMV only comes into effect when you're trying to value something you have sitting on your shelf, when you are both the buyer and seller - or when the seller is giving you a deal that nobody else could get. Obviously the temptation is to undervalue it, which is why you have to document how you came up with the value. If everyone's saying your pile of Jag parts is worth scrap metal price, it sounds to me like that's in your favor.

Yes I agree with you. From my experience  trying to sell those 50 Jaguar V12's I had, not many people want Jaguar mechanical stuff.   I didn't even pull most of the rest of the stuff I could have.  
  If I was too flip calling it Jaguar Junk I apologize.  I was trying to get ahead of some of the wise crackers on this board who have made fun of Jaguars. 
  Plus I went back and modified  my request. Giving the value and my justification for it.   
  Frankly I have nothing in any of it. It's left overs.  
    It's stuff that if I can't turn into a car my heirs will turn into a dumpster. 

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Jaguar rear end. Assembly complete. Although taken apart. Needle bearing assemblies removed etc.  knock off hubs, good splines. Undamaged threads. 
drive shaft. Engine assembly, with transmission,   Radiator. Front suspension crossmember.  

In the pictures you show 2 v12 engines, and a stack of extra heads. I assume you are only including 1 engine in the deal, and no extra heads. I also assume that the transmission you mention is an automatic that came with the v12 out of whichever jag you pulled it from. 

For $300 I'd like to be first in line to buy the whole pile from you. I will come pick it up. 

  Fair enough. Let's see if it's worth more to someone.  

If I propose a value of $10k on this lot and 4 others agree would that end this discussion?

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Robbie, what was the offer you made on the axle that was declined?

Here's an example of a 'Sold' V12 Long block. Is it comparable?

Lof8 - Andy said:

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Robbie, what was the offer you made on the axle that was declined?

I didn't offer on the axle. I offered $200 on a set of nice stock jag wheels. They had aged-out tires still installed (which for me, doesn't add value; it actually subtracts because I have to pay to have the tires removed and thrown away).

Now frenchyd was going to bring them to me on his way past, and that does add value to me which I absolutely recognize. I had also offered that frenchyd could stay the night at my place or at least stop for some rest and a warm meal on his long drive.

I recognize the wheels in question are not actually part of this pile described. But if a set of wheels is worth more than $200, I have a hard time agreeing a V12 engine, a transmission, front and rear suspension, driveshaft, and a big radiator are worth only $300.

To me, $300 for that pile is such a good deal (so much less than fair market value) I would be willing to drive 12 hours round trip to go get it. I would not be interested in buying it at fair market value.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I buy into all of that logic. 

frenchy, starting to sound like finding another one these $300 v12 donor cars is your best bet to stay under $2k.  But I suggest you just build it with what you've got. Personally, I'd love to see the low budget v12 jag racer, wether it's in the $2k class or not. 

If I was doing the budget (and I'm only a 1 Challenge guy) I'd probably work FMV on my own using complete car examples as similar 'parts lots'. Here's a couple that are on FB right now. But with the pics and vague descriptions spread across this thread, I don't know exactly what is being valued.

Stampie said:

If I propose a value of $10k on this lot and 4 others agree would that end this discussion?

Seconded

(And I've owned 2 XJ-S's, one of which I sold on BaT)

I'm confused (and concerned) about why you want to establish FMV. 
 

If I am reading this right (and I admit, I'm never quite sure of that), it sounds like you have a big pile of leftover parts that DID NOT COME OFF YOUR CHALLENGE CAR.  Are you trying to add their value back into your Challenge budget?

You can't do that.