spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/28/19 2:46 p.m.

Alright hive mind, best friend's 8th gen civic was lost to a flood 4 years ago. He never unmarried the car from the flashpro. 

It is now basically worthless because you have to pay hondata to reset it from the married state.... To the tune of $500. 

I've been pondering the rules and how Nitrous and fuels are dealt with. So I wondered if - was nailed against the wall on this thing with the $500 cost to have hondata reset it. As $500 tothe bottom line of the build for project Hazmat

 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/28/19 2:52 p.m.

If  you have to pay Hondata $500 to use it, then it's worth $500. Unless someone else has a better interpretation of the rules. 

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
5/28/19 3:13 p.m.

It's just a data logger right?  Can it be removed for the Challenge?  If so it's no budget hit. 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/28/19 3:21 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

It's a tuner.. And it does not have to be physically attached to the car during competition, but it will be electronically married to it.... 

Trying to be above the bar on playing fair. 

It's worth maybe 5-10% power increase... but also an increase the size of the bowerband, cause I can move the i-VTEC engagement point down from 5800 to 4000 rpm or possibly lower... 

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
5/28/19 3:35 p.m.

In reply to spacecadet :

Ok I understand. Don't think that's worth the budget hit personally. 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
5/28/19 5:07 p.m.

HPTuners and others were deemed 0 budget hit legal as a tuning tool, especially because not on car for event.  I would think this is similar?

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
5/28/19 5:17 p.m.

In reply to Patrick :

I could see that but being the devil's advocate I would argue that the user is programming with HP tuners whereas some of these devices come with a tune that is preprogrammed. If preprogrammed I'd say that's the same as paying the dyno guy to tune your car and must be included in budget. If the parameters are entered by the user then it's just a tool as you state. 

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
5/28/19 5:30 p.m.

To further this discussion say I don't know how to tune but Joe Vaper posted a tune on riceracers.com that I use. That would be free as I'm paying the tuner (Joe Vaper) nothing for his services. 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/28/19 5:30 p.m.
Patrick said:

HPTuners and others were deemed 0 budget hit legal as a tuning tool, especially because not on car for event.  I would think this is similar?

I was unaware of the HP Tuner being rules this way. 

When my buddy got this flashpro in 2012 we did pulls and data logging on streets to build a tune for the car and someone at hondata would shoot back tunes to him. but ultimately we did the datalogging. 

I have no issue with attempting to tune it myself with Mazdeuce and friends.  



 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/28/19 5:55 p.m.
Patrick said:

HPTuners and others were deemed 0 budget hit legal as a tuning tool, especially because not on car for event.  I would think this is similar?

I didn't know this. That's cool. Sounds like a decided issue then as long as it's not physically on the car.

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/28/19 7:24 p.m.

alright.. so tuner is a legal no cost adder if it's not attached to the vehicle during competition. like a piggyback ECU would have to be.. 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
5/28/19 7:45 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:
Patrick said:

HPTuners and others were deemed 0 budget hit legal as a tuning tool, especially because not on car for event.  I would think this is similar?

I didn't know this. That's cool. Sounds like a decided issue then as long as it's not physically on the car.

Calvin and I went over this a few years ago, as the rules initially had it included somehow, forget the wording, but my argument was that the HPTuners interface and program was the equivalent of a timing light and a screwdriver to adjust jets on a carb.  

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/28/19 8:08 p.m.
Patrick said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:
Patrick said:

HPTuners and others were deemed 0 budget hit legal as a tuning tool, especially because not on car for event.  I would think this is similar?

I didn't know this. That's cool. Sounds like a decided issue then as long as it's not physically on the car.

Calvin and I went over this a few years ago, as the rules initially had it included somehow, forget the wording, but my argument was that the HPTuners interface and program was the equivalent of a timing light and a screwdriver to adjust jets on a carb.  

it's a solid analogy.. i'm just paying $500 to re-issue a license for the software. just like many of the modern automtive diag and scan tools. 

 

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
5/30/19 8:27 a.m.

This topic is very revelant to my interests....

Byrneon27
Byrneon27 Reader
5/30/19 6:55 p.m.

If this is going to become a thing where the competitors dictate the rule I'm 100% behind flashing devices being budget exempt equipment not on the car during competition should not count towards your budget. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/30/19 7:14 p.m.
Byrneon27 said:

If this is going to become a thing where the competitors dictate the rule I'm 100% behind flashing devices being budget exempt equipment not on the car during competition should not count towards your budget. 

That's not what happened. This isn't something being decided now, it's something that was decided in the past and some of us didn't know about it. The tuner is a tool much the same way that a screwdriver is used to tune a carb. As long as you plug it it, tune the car, and it's not needed to be on the car during the competition. 

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
5/30/19 9:51 p.m.

This is an interesting subject. I don't have to pay any extra fee to use my torque wrench on a new car. But I do need to liscense hp tuners to use it on a new car.

So it is a tool, but it is a very car specific tool.

If I sell the car, can I transfer my hondata or hptuners liscense to the new owner?

I agree that if hptuners is free hondata should be too (as long as the tune is yours, if you pay for the tune file, then that's a different story). But I think there is more to discuss here...

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
5/31/19 8:03 a.m.
Robbie said:

This is an interesting subject. I don't have to pay any extra fee to use my torque wrench on a new car. But I do need to liscense hp tuners to use it on a new car.

So it is a tool, but it is a very car specific tool.

If I sell the car, can I transfer my hondata or hptuners liscense to the new owner?

I agree that if hptuners is free hondata should be too (as long as the tune is yours, if you pay for the tune file, then that's a different story). But I think there is more to discuss here...

It was discussed with staff several years ago, i don’t think there is.  HPTuners requires 2 credits to unlock a license.  Credits are $50 each, but your tool comes with 8 free credits.  So you can tune 4 computers before needing to purchase credits.  I’m still in my free credits because I don’t do much 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
6/4/19 11:28 a.m.

to answer the question on hondata. it's a lifetme license as long as you unmarry from the previous car. my buddy did not and so i have to pay the $500 for hondata to reset the unit. 

Stampie
Stampie PowerDork
6/4/19 11:40 a.m.

In reply to spacecadet :

When you unmarry does the original car lose its tune in any way?

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
6/5/19 8:12 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Yep. That's the way a flashpro is setup. Just how they do it. 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
6/5/19 8:13 a.m.

A flashpro is only 1 license.

 

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