tr8todd
tr8todd SuperDork
4/16/21 5:54 a.m.

Would it be possible to cull one car out as a challenge car if you buy 4 cars, and 4 pick up truck loads of spares, wheels, and race parts?  Lets say two of the cars are old race cars, and two of the cars are basically titled road cars abandoned 30 years ago, and total package is worth around $15K.  Sold individually, I can easily double my money, but it would be cool if I could cull out a challenge car.  I am assuming  the seller and I will have to come to an agreement as to the value of the two titled cars for sales tax purposes, and race cars and spares as a separate deal.  If one of the two cars, is valued at less than $2K and assigned a sales value as such, does that really count?  Guy won't sell anything unless somebody buys everything.  Good thing for me, as I want it all, and not many people are willing to go that route, but that doesn't mean anybody can buy an individual car at that price.  This is GRM at its essence, but not necessarily GRM challenge.  The problem I keep running into is i buy cars with a ton of spares, but they are all just over the price for the standard challenge rules.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/16/21 7:02 a.m.

The way I understand it, buying a package of cars/parts works the same way as buying a car in the budget. Purchase price of the package and/or car cannot exceed $2000, and you can recoup up to $1000 of the package. 

I think you would have to split the deal into multiple packages. The package of stuff you want to use for the Challenge would have to be purchased at no more than $2000.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/16/21 7:17 a.m.

I can give you how I did my Model T and Model A as an example.  When Mark and I were talking I offered $1500 stating it would be $750 each.  I wasn't aware of the large parts stash that was coming with them at that time so when we did the receipt I did it as Model A plus parts at $750.  In your case I would suggest you receipt it as you stated.  Assuming you will Challenge one, pull the two titled cars out.  Values I'm about to state are theoretical.  Receipt the two titled cars plus parts for them at $1500 each.  Receipt the rest of the lot at $12000.  My problem once I type that out is are the two titled cars really worth $2k or less?  

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/16/21 8:33 a.m.

yeah, if 4 cars bought for 15k are worth 30k, I'm finding difficulty seeing an argument that one of them is worth less than 2k. Unless 3 are really good and one (the challenger) is really bad. 

But still, I think the answer is to separate out the transactions and agree with the seller on price individually. 

AAZCD (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/16/21 8:59 a.m.

I would think that on a multi-car deal worth $15,000 the best way to extract a Challenge car is to have one receipt for the best and another receipt for the rest.

  • Agree on the price for the lot.
  • Agree on the value of a large portion of it that leaves the rest of the pile within your Challenge budget.
  • Have the seller write two receipts.
  • As long as the 'Best' receipt makes sense, the 'Rest' receipt should be legit under the rules as I understand them.

$3,800 purchase, $2,000 car, This: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/2000-challenge/haters-gonna-hate-yes-we-bought-a-v1-for-2k/160570/page1/

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
4/16/21 9:36 a.m.

Get the seller to write the invoice for "Scrap Metal" since in essence and inarguably that is what used-up cars and used car parts are, and then weigh what goes on to the car. No different than many builds that are doing exactly that with the metal they weld into the car. 

 

Opinions may vary ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/16/21 9:53 a.m.
NOHOME said:

Get the seller to write the invoice for "Scrap Metal" since in essence and inarguably that is what used-up cars and used car parts are, and then weigh what goes on to the car. No different than many builds that are doing exactly that with the metal they weld into the car. 

 

Opinions may vary ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I only add metal to the budget at scrap metal prices if I actually bought it for scrap metal prices. I've got plenty of tube on the car that I paid (and budgeted for) at retail price because buying known quality metal was important to me for those tubes...

Cutoffs from other past projects that I keep in a trash barrel in the shop are a little dicier, but I still don't quote scrap in the budget unless the piece was really crummy.  

Placemotorsports
Placemotorsports GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
4/16/21 10:12 a.m.

Another rule should be you post the ones you don't want here first to see if any of us want them

tr8todd
tr8todd SuperDork
4/16/21 5:27 p.m.

Its kind of a crazy big deal.  It includes a TR8 coupe with title, a never finished tube frame GT1 TR8 with Huffaker bodywork, a never finished TR8 coupe ITS race car, and a titled TR7 convertible with a V8 installed.  The spares are enough to finish all 4 cars, and still have a ton left over.  Enough race wheels to shod each car more than twice including three piece GT1 spec wheels. I am thinking the convertible TR7 with the V8 can't be worth much in the grand scheme of what everything else is worth.  Would be easy to finish it up and make it a challenge car.  Smart thing is probably to just flip it right away and recoupe some money.  FWIW, this stuff will blend in seamlessly with my collection of TR8s and parts hoard.  Nothing there I don't have already including the race cars.  Other than the fact that it will take 4 weekends to get it home, my wife might not even notice the extra stuff at this point.

ckosacranoid
ckosacranoid SuperDork
4/19/21 5:31 p.m.

Buy one car at a dollar,  then everything thing else at 14,999.

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress Reader
4/19/21 7:30 p.m.
maschinenbau said:

The way I understand it, buying a package of cars/parts works the same way as buying a car in the budget. Purchase price of the package and/or car cannot exceed $2000, and you can recoup up to $1000 of the package. 

I think you would have to split the deal into multiple packages. The package of stuff you want to use for the Challenge would have to be purchased at no more than $2000.

Couldn't you buy the car for 2k and a package of parts for 1k and sell off 1k for recoup? From the rules:

Net cost of the Challenge car and the parts on/in/attached to it must be equal to or less than $2000. Your purchase price of the Challenge car cannot exceed $2000.

<snip>

Up to $1000 may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car, related parts car(s), or related parts packages at the time of purchase.

tr8todd
tr8todd SuperDork
4/20/21 2:12 p.m.

Just found out there is a 5th car.  This one was a national level autocross TR7 back in the 80s.  Hasn't moved in years, but comes with a ton of engine, and suspension mods, as well as having a Quaife limited slip installed.  The more stuff that gets added, the lower the individual price on each of the cars gets, right?

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/20/21 2:52 p.m.

In reply to tr8todd :

Don't take this wrong but one day I want to visit and just spend a day with the crazy Triumph guy.

tr8todd
tr8todd SuperDork
4/21/21 4:25 a.m.

I get lots of visitors.  All are welcome.

Ranger50
Ranger50 MegaDork
4/22/21 3:43 a.m.

I thought the number one rule here would be the "Don't be a dick" rule.... Or don't claim that the best car that's worth 10k is really 2k...

tr8todd
tr8todd SuperDork
4/23/21 6:19 a.m.

OK, got a new angle.  I have at least two friends that want two of the cars.  If I break the deal up so we agree on a price they want to pay for said cars, and have them buy those separately from the seller, can I now drop my purchase price for three cars and all of the race parts?  That way I still get two race cars and a V8 convertible for a substantially lower price.  Seller wants it all gone in one shot, but he doesn't care how everything is divided.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/23/21 6:27 a.m.

In reply to tr8todd :

That's what I can the Seth principle. I'll have to look it up but basically he said if two people show up and grab different items from the seller then he thought it should be able to be separated. 

ckosacranoid
ckosacranoid SuperDork
4/26/21 3:47 p.m.

IN any case, good luck with the deal, and hope you get things home to start the project.

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