Safety features that don’t improve speed.

Between Stampie pointing out the budget exemptions list and SVrex's statement that "if it's not on the exemptions list, it isn't exempt", I would think that the subject is pretty well understood.  

Perhaps frenchy should directly message someone like Tom (first person I could think of who would be a good fit for this situation) about these questions instead of starting the "group discussions" which seem to often get a bit rude?  I'm not saying I don't understand the rudeness, I just wonder if it's productive.  

Is frenchy even going to the challenge?  I thought he wouldn't do it for various reasons.  This twin-turbo XJS concept should be something if he's able to make it.

In reply to frenchyd :

I won't be able to be there ( the Challenge) but the guys I'm working with expressed an interest in taking my Jag and attending. At this point I'm solidly under the $2000 limit* 
 That's OK with me. In fact I'll lend them my pickup and enclosed trailer so they can go. Hopefully some enjoy that sound.  
          
  My purpose for building the car is to go wheel to wheel Vintage  racing.  It's what I love. 
   I didn't think safety equipment would cause any stir.   Why would it?  It doesn't make things faster. 
    Time is limited. So I wanted to save the time it takes to install it, remove it and replace it with the original.  And then after the challenge is over replace everything back to racing requirements. 
      It's easiest to install while the car is in pieces and everything is opened up. 
   
     * you can see exactly where I am by reading the XJS progress report   
     

In reply to frenchyd :

Yep. 
 

And every single participant who has ever attended the Challenge in the last 20 years has spent gobs of time doing stuff the hard way. 
 

Your time costs the same as theirs. 

This sort of situation is exactly why we created the over budget classes, Frenchy. Bring the car and have a blast competing in GTU. Or build to the rulebook and enter GTU$ or one of the other under-budget classes. 

In reply to frenchyd :

It's not the goal. 
 

But it IS how you achieve the goal. 
 

Many participants have put in hundreds of hours polishing rust until it shines, or removing the perfectly good Kirkey race seat they already have in the car and making another identical one from scrap sheet metal. 
 

My first Challenge car had a brand new suspension system on it. I found another identical setup cheaper, and swapped them so the cheaper one was on the car to put a little more money back in the budget. 
 

I realize you don't understand. Maybe the Challenge isn't for you. 
 

Put whatever you want on it and run it in the unlimited budget classes. Then you don't have to worry about a budget at all. 

What vintage racing class within a sanctioning body currently has multiple entries running aftermarket or custom twin turbo setups within a wheel to wheel class? 

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

It's not the goal. 
 

But it IS how you achieve the goal. 
 

Many participants have put in hundreds of hours polishing rust until it shines, or removing the perfectly good Kirkey race seat they already have in the car and making another identical one from scrap sheet metal. 
 

My first Challenge car had a brand new suspension system on it. I found another identical setup cheaper, and swapped them so the cheaper one was on the car to put a little more money back in the budget. 
 

I realize you don't understand. Maybe the Challenge isn't for you. 
 

Put whatever you want on it and run it in the unlimited budget classes. Then you don't have to worry about a budget at all. 

It won't be for me.  As I have repeatedly said. "I can't be there."    It is up to my team mates Jeff and Erik if they want to spend over $1000 worth of fuel.  Plus the cost of meals and motels.  Entry fee. Plus whatever else is required.  
1200 miles one way.  
 I'll provide the race car, the truck and trailer to get it there and back. It will cost me about the $2000 limit to build it.  But I've already been assured by Stampie  he'll go over my car especially close.  ( the implied threat is obvious) 

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

What vintage racing class within a sanctioning body currently has multiple entries running aftermarket or custom twin turbo setups within a wheel to wheel class? 

 

 

None to my knowledge.  Obviously for that the turbo's will need to come off.  The turbos were a cheap ( $114 each) way to to make a lot of power.  Just to have some fun at the challenge. 
 I do have carbs to replace the turbo's or maybe I'll leave the fuel injection on I suppose it's pretty easy to test on a dyno  or even a test and tune at a drag strip. 

 SVRA runs Jaguar V12's in group 10. As does VSCDA  In group 6. 
     

Tom Suddard said:

This sort of situation is exactly why we created the over budget classes, Frenchy. Bring the car and have a blast competing in GTU. Or build to the rulebook and enter GTU$ or one of the other under-budget classes. 

  According to Calvin Nelson it costs about $4000 to build a car for the $2000 challenge ( only 1/2 of which counts )  plus the entry fee, the cost of getting here, food, lodging, fuel for a 2400 mile trip. Towing a trailer and car.  Plus misc.  That's going to be somewhere in that $6000 range.  
  And at that cost the cars can't be judged even in their own class?   
       

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Yep. 
 

And every single participant who has ever attended the Challenge in the last 20 years has spent gobs of time doing stuff the hard way. 
 

Your time costs the same as theirs. 

How you manage your time is your business.  How I use mine. Is for me.   If you think I'm interested in spending $6500 to be insulted and turned away?   
     Well, obviously you have no sense of how to promote an event. 

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Between Stampie pointing out the budget exemptions list and SVrex's statement that "if it's not on the exemptions list, it isn't exempt", I would think that the subject is pretty well understood.  

Perhaps frenchy should directly message someone like Tom (first person I could think of who would be a good fit for this situation) about these questions instead of starting the "group discussions" which seem to often get a bit rude?  I'm not saying I don't understand the rudeness, I just wonder if it's productive.  

Is frenchy even going to the challenge?  I thought he wouldn't do it for various reasons.  This twin-turbo XJS concept should be something if he's able to make it.

 I keep repeating this.  I will not be able to be there. However Jeff and Erik expressed interest in going. If they want they can take the Jag, my truck and an enclosed trailer and join the fun. 
  I'd like others to hear those V12's at full song.   
prove that a $500 Jag can be respectably fast. 

frenchyd said:

Tom Suddard said:

This sort of situation is exactly why we created the over budget classes, Frenchy. Bring the car and have a blast competing in GTU. Or build to the rulebook and enter GTU$ or one of the other under-budget classes. 

  According to Calvin Nelson it costs about $4000 to build a car for the $2000 challenge ( only 1/2 of which counts )  plus the entry fee, the cost of getting here, food, lodging, fuel for a 2400 mile trip. Towing a trailer and car.  Plus misc.  That's going to be somewhere in that $6000 range.  
  And at that cost the cars can't be judged even in their own class?   
       

I joined the forum shortly after you changed your forum name, IIRC. In that time you have stated  more times than I can actually count, that you have no interest in the challenge, never will, and that no parts of the challenge interest you. 
Just stop, already. Insulting the rules of an event that is beneath you, in what is effectively their own house, shows a definite lack of manners. Just stop already. 
You are building a cool car. You have a cool team. Maybe, if THEY are interested in the challenge, they could read the rules, and ask for clarification if needed, without becoming argumentative, just for the sake of being an azz. 

frenchyd said:

 I keep repeating this.  I will not be able to be there. However Jeff and Erik expressed interest in going. If they want they can take the Jag, my truck and an enclosed trailer and join the fun. 
  I'd like others to hear those V12's at full song.   
prove that a $500 Jag can be respectably fast. 

Actually, the most repeated thing you've said (without changing facts that are largely made up, as suits ya) is that everything about the challenge is pointless and beneath you. 
Point of proof, you can't send a $500 car, cause you don't have a car that runs with only $500 in it. So why say it? 
Give it a rest! Just stop already. 
if your team mates have an interest, let them ask, after reading rules that are, at the core, quite simple. I'm sure you were once good at interpreting rules - that you cared about. It is also clear you do NOT care about the challenge rules, and merely want to be obnoxious, and belittle rules to an event that is beneath your superior ness. And having no manners, come to someone else's house to insult them. 

frenchyd said:

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

What vintage racing class within a sanctioning body currently has multiple entries running aftermarket or custom twin turbo setups within a wheel to wheel class? 

 

 

None to my knowledge.  Obviously for that the turbo's will need to come off.  The turbos were a cheap ( $114 each) way to to make a lot of power.  Just to have some fun at the challenge. 
 I do have carbs to replace the turbo's or maybe I'll leave the fuel injection on I suppose it's pretty easy to test on a dyno  or even a test and tune at a drag strip. 

 SVRA runs Jaguar V12's in group 10. As does VSCDA  In group 6. 
     

So none is the answer. Because I didn't inquire about groups that have them run without forced induction. With that being the case you're going to have to make major changes to go vintage racing after the challenge. Which means you can hold off on the safety equipment as it pertains to wheel to wheel and vintage racing until that point as well as you're already going to have a massive undertaking to repurpose the vehicle. 

This thread is a nothing burger and a waste a bandwidth, both server and human thought. 

frenchyd said:

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Yep. 
 

And every single participant who has ever attended the Challenge in the last 20 years has spent gobs of time doing stuff the hard way. 
 

Your time costs the same as theirs. 

How you manage your time is your business.  How I use mine. Is for me.   If you think I'm interested in spending $6500 to be insulted and turned away?   
     Well, obviously you have no sense of how to promote an event. 

I don't promote events. I have no need to promote an event. I am a participant in the Challenge, and have been since 2004. 
 

Frenchy, your questions have been answered. Thoroughly. The answer is no. 
 

I'm sorry you don't like that answer, but tough E36 M3. There is no point in continuing to discuss this with you while you hurl insults at the event and the people involved in it. 
 

We understand. You don't like the event. That's fine. Don't come. 

Frenchy be having y'all fingers on fire lmao

SV reX said:

frenchyd said:

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Yep. 
 

And every single participant who has ever attended the Challenge in the last 20 years has spent gobs of time doing stuff the hard way. 
 

Your time costs the same as theirs. 

How you manage your time is your business.  How I use mine. Is for me.   If you think I'm interested in spending $6500 to be insulted and turned away?   
     Well, obviously you have no sense of how to promote an event. 

I don't promote events. I have no need to promote an event. I am a participant in the Challenge, and have been since 2004. 
 

Frenchy, your questions have been answered. Thoroughly. The answer is no. 
 

I'm sorry you don't like that answer, but tough E36 M3. There is no point in continuing to discuss this with you while you hurl insults at the event and the people involved in it. 
 

We understand. You don't like the event. That's fine. Don't come. 

 Since you choose to express your opinion. I'll respond the same way I have to everyone.    
    I cannot come.   The Jag might be there because those who are building it with me ( Jeff & Erick ) expressed a interest in going.   I will even provide my truck to tow it with and an enclosed trailer.  
Many here said they would like to see it there. 

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

What vintage racing class within a sanctioning body currently has multiple entries running aftermarket or custom twin turbo setups within a wheel to wheel class? 

 

 

None to my knowledge.  Obviously for that the turbo's will need to come off.  The turbos were a cheap ( $114 each) way to to make a lot of power.  Just to have some fun at the challenge. 
 I do have carbs to replace the turbo's or maybe I'll leave the fuel injection on I suppose it's pretty easy to test on a dyno  or even a test and tune at a drag strip. 

 SVRA runs Jaguar V12's in group 10. As does VSCDA  In group 6. 
     

So none is the answer. Because I didn't inquire about groups that have them run without forced induction. With that being the case you're going to have to make major changes to go vintage racing after the challenge. Which means you can hold off on the safety equipment as it pertains to wheel to wheel and vintage racing until that point as well as you're already going to have a massive undertaking to repurpose the vehicle. 

 

This thread is a nothing burger and a waste a bandwidth, both server and human thought. 

Maybe you've heard of Calvin Nelson.  He takes a 175,000  mile unopened ( stock ) junkyard engine slaps a turbo on it and runs 9's with it.   
     Later on the dyno makes 824 wheel horsepower with it.  
I intend to follow his lead.  
  I think he's Brilliant   ( and a nice guy.). 

03Panther said:

frenchyd said:

 I keep repeating this.  I will not be able to be there. However Jeff and Erik expressed interest in going. If they want they can take the Jag, my truck and an enclosed trailer and join the fun. 
  I'd like others to hear those V12's at full song.   
prove that a $500 Jag can be respectably fast. 

Actually, the most repeated thing you've said (without changing facts that are largely made up, as suits ya) is that everything about the challenge is pointless and beneath you. 
Point of proof, you can't send a $500 car, cause you don't have a car that runs with only $500 in it. So why say it? 
Give it a rest! Just stop already. 
if your team mates have an interest, let them ask, after reading rules that are, at the core, quite simple. I'm sure you were once good at interpreting rules - that you cared about. It is also clear you do NOT care about the challenge rules, and merely want to be obnoxious, and belittle rules to an event that is beneath your superior ness. And having no manners, come to someone else's house to insult them. 

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I have repeatedly said I like the whole concept of the challenge. It's Can Am with a restricted budget. 
        I comment because I would like to improve it. 
    My basic premise is valid.  Why allow some safety devices with no budget hit and not allow others? 
    None of those I've suggested will improve speed one little bit.  Just safety.  

In reply to frenchyd :

Ok, let me rephrase that. 
 

I was one of the ones who wanted to see your car at the event. I even offered to haul it round trip at my cost. 
 

I no longer care. 
 

You have taken all the joy out of seeing it, or having you or your car participate in the event.  Your non-stop arguing about this is completely awful. I don't think you are an asset to the event, or to this forum at this time. 
 

So, I no longer care if you or your car comes. 
 

Was that clear enough?

In reply to frenchyd :

The father of Calvin explained it well. Andrew is against exempt safety items such as roll cages because that acts as a speed bump itself. If you have to include those items in your budget then you have less budget to spend on go fast items.

I appreciate the arrogance of you thinking you can improve an event that you've never been to. I wish I was smart enough to know better than the people that have been running it for over 20 years. Maybe you can solve world peace next.

frenchy just bring the Jag.  Read the rules and don't play in an above-budget class and bring the car.  

Tom Suddard said:

This sort of situation is exactly why we created the over budget classes, Frenchy. Bring the car and have a blast competing in GTU. Or build to the rulebook and enter GTU$ or one of the other under-budget classes. 

Let me say this, Thank You. 
     The concept of a set of rules so open as to be almost Can Am with an impossibly tight budget  is absolutely Brilliant.   
     I accept your decision and if Jeff or Erik bring down the Jag it will either be documented  under $2000  or enter your  over budget class with my own interpretation of the $2000 limit. ( ie, safety gear ). 
 

Stampie said:

In reply to frenchyd :

The father of Calvin explained it well. Andrew is against exempt safety items such as roll cages because that acts as a speed bump itself. If you have to include those items in your budget then you have less budget to spend on go fast items.

I appreciate the arrogance of you thinking you can improve an event that you've never been to. I wish I was smart enough to know better than the people that have been running it for over 20 years. Maybe you can solve world peace next.

  That's legitimate.  Speed bump.     I've probably explained this wrong. I do agree with NHRA mandated  safety rules.  Yes include the cost of them. 

 But fuel cells,  kill switches ( in my case), and fire suppression systems aren't required. 
   Besides. There is the over budget approach.   We can still build under the budget and simply race with those safety item
      
 

ps.  Besides if it's down there, others are free to  look it over and decide for themselves how they would judge it.