Presented by Nine Lives Racing
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ProDarwin MegaDork
12/21/20 5:31 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

I guess it comes down to the complexity of the implementation. Is it easier to move a chunk of body around or to come up with a way to activate brakes on individual wheels on a car that was not designed that way from the factory?

On a challenge car for sure moving around panels is either.

I think there are some diff/yaw options on the table for challengers.  Like sleepyhead mentioned.

Also there are a few cars out there with yaw capabilities parts could be robbed off of?  I know honda ridgelines and TL AWD setups have some torque vectoring electronically controlled diff engagements?

I wonder if there is some magic that could be done with parts from a Prius or RX transmission.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/24/20 9:39 a.m.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

I 100% agree you can't use the wing by itself. That's why I'm so stuck on the idea that an air brake will likely impact downforce of the entire vehicle (perhaps massively).

Still very interested in this thread and more thoughts on how to analyze an airbrake overall. Keith's data and driving feedback is very intriguing for sure.

There's a video from julian edgar - I'll try to link to it later - that talks about an SAE study by kia or hyundai that shows the massive impact in downforce at the front wheels by the addition of a relatively minor spoiler on the trunk on one of their early 2000s sedans.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/24/20 10:18 a.m.

Here's the video:

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
12/24/20 12:53 p.m.

I haven't forgotten about this thread either.  In digging in a bit more, I've realized a couple things...

1) I got my sign conventions wrong on the last page, and I need to redo a couple of the images.  surprise

2) Making a "simulation" of the airbrake on a closed course is going to take a bit of work.  I've been using OptimumLap a fair amount this year, and I reckon I can use it... but it really doesn't have the ability to have a changing drag coefficient through the course of a lap.  Fortunately, though, it does have a layout from the 2010 Solo Nats... which I can use to generate some data, which I can suck into a spreadsheet to massage it a bit manually to try and come up a ballpark idea of the effect on times.  (probably Autocross just at first... maybe Tracks, once I can refine the 'massaging bit' so that it's relatively non-time consuming.


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