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The_Jed SuperDork
6/19/13 6:43 p.m.

Really digging this build!

mazdeuce Dork
6/19/13 9:30 p.m.

Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but why are you putting that much work into saving the frame rails? You can pick up a new set for five bills. While that's not exactly free, I can't quite wrap my head around working to preserve what little metal is left when you're going to modify the dickens out of it anyway.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/19/13 9:42 p.m.

Mainly authenticity. We're building a hotrod, not a kit car.

We have an existing frame with really nice crossmembers and it came with the car, so it was already there. It is also surprisingly square. And the frame is where the VIN is on a Model A, so we have a real '29 Ford that doesn't have to sport one of those Assigned VIN plates under hood like the plastic cars.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/19/13 9:59 p.m.

It probably looks worse than it really is when you look at the close up photos. In reality, we have about five or six rough inches on one side of the frame. I've reinforced that with a fourteen inch patch. I added an identical piece on the other side to keep things balanced.

I'm not a huge fan of reproduction frames on Hi-Boy roadsters. The rails are too smooth and have no holes. If you buy them boxed, then you have to cut away a bunch of the reinforcement to add all your mounts. Reproduction rear crossmembers are usually fabricated from boxed tubing and they just look wrong. If we were building a full fendered car, it might be a different story.

accordionfolder Reader
6/20/13 12:05 a.m.

I wouldn't fret it, can't tell you how many gaps I filled that way on my locost frame and it's solid.

JoeyM MegaDork
6/20/13 12:21 a.m.

same with my datsun. It's not good to have that stuff, but it isn't the worst thing that could happen, either

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/21/13 6:47 p.m.

Boxing Day.

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We're adding boxing plates to the frame to stiffen things up a bit. I realize, of course, that they belong on the inside of the frame, but I started by clamping them to the outside to help determine what needs to get chopped.

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The insides are getting a coat of primer for now to help minimize corrosion. We're going to try to shoot some color in there later.

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Everything is just getting tacked into place for now. We'll do a mock up of the frame with the engine, transmission and suspension in place to see if anything needs to get cut or moved. Then I'll go back and finish welding.

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oldtin UltraDork
6/21/13 6:58 p.m.
Woody wrote: The Copper Spoon. There are a lot of original rivet holes in the frame that we no longer need. Some will remain in place because I like the way they give the car an original hotrod look. But others need to get filled. Since copper melts at a different rate than steel, you can back holes in steel with a piece of copper and fill the hole with weld. The weld doesn't stick to the copper. I had read about copper spoons, but when I asked if they had them at the (very good) welding supply store that I shop at, the guy at the counter had never heard of them. He said that they must be more of a body shop tool. Harbor Freight to the rescue. Ten bucks.  photo Speedster002_zpsee9bf3a3.jpg

Ooh, fancy I made my copper spoon by hammering a piece of copper tubing flat on one end, put a little bend in it and wrapped the rest in electrical tape. Not as nice as an actual tool. $10 is a good price.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/21/13 8:18 p.m.

I had planned to make my own, but I couldn't find any scrap copper laying around. I generally try to avoid Harbor Freight, but for ten bucks, this was a no brainer. It's actually a nice solid tool.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/21/13 8:55 p.m.

It's not really necessary to box the frame horns.This is more of a street rod move and we're building a hotrod. I voted to leave them open, but was overruled. I have to admit though that I really like the way they came out. It gives the frame sort of an industrial look.

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I knew that I was going to have to chop them down a bit to fit around our crossmember, so I made some cardboard templates to help me find the right look.

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Once I decided how I wanted them to look, I clamped the two pieces together and cut them as one. That way I could be sure that both sides would be symmetrical.

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Again, these are just tacked for now, but I'll finish the welds and grind everything smooth before we lay down the paint.

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petegossett GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/22/13 6:05 a.m.

Those horns are going to turn out really nice!

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/22/13 12:58 p.m.

Thanks. It wasn't my idea, but I really do like the way that they look.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/28/13 12:44 p.m.

The boxing plates are now tacked into place and we're ready to move this back to Dave's place to start fitting the engine, transmission and suspension. The forward plate on the driver's side will need to come off again, as soon as we can be sure exactly where we want the steering box to be. I may still add some filler plates to bring the boxed sections closer to the K and crossmembers. Even without final welding, the frame is substantially stiffer, and noticeably heavier, than when we started.

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JoeyM MegaDork
6/28/13 1:46 p.m.

looks good.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/29/13 10:31 a.m.

I had to move the frame from my place to Dave's: 2.6 miles.

The frame had been sandblasted to bare metal. The only places that have been primed are the areas inside the boxing plates.

The sun was out when I left my driveway. At mile 1.3, the clouds opened up with the kind of rain that makes cars pull over on the highway. We unloaded it as quickly as possible at Dave's, but we could see it turning from gray to brown before our eyes. I was too disgusted to take any pictures of it.

The rain stopped after about five minutes. It never rained at my house.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/29/13 2:09 p.m.

On a much happier note, Dave finally got the Flathead back from the machine shop. He did the porting himself and relieved the area between the valves and bore.

The original 1952 Ford 8BA had a bore and stroke of 3.1875 x 3.750, for a displacement of 239 cubic inches, putting out 110 horsepower.

Old school hotrodders would drop in a 4.000 Mercury crank to build a 255 stroker.

Dave used a 4.125 Scat crank, along with H-beam connecting rods and 3.315 forged pistons, bringing the displacement out to 284 cubic inches.

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Kenny_McCormic Dork
6/29/13 4:06 p.m.

Estimated power?

With regards to the frame, a few bottles of naval jelly and it never happened?

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/29/13 5:54 p.m.

No solid estimate on the power yet. We'll see what happens when it's all dialed in.

Oh, and it's getting Offenhauser heads and intake.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/29/13 10:14 p.m.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: With regards to the frame, a few bottles of naval jelly and it never happened?

Naval jelly will probably be the answer. I actually just bought a bottle the day before for another project.

noddaz GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/30/13 12:24 p.m.

flathead fords are such interesting engines... Sorry about the frame... Soda blast in the driveway?

SearchDog New Reader
7/2/13 3:50 p.m.

I'm the "...thanks Dave" guy -- partners with Woody on this project. Owner of the Bridgeport, HVLP paint compressor, 2-ton overhead crane and other goodies.

Nice to see he's FINALLY doing some work on this thing!

For you engine techy guys, I'd like to expand on Woody's post regarding the flathead.

If you crunch the numbers he gave you, you will realize that we did a .125 bore job on this block! Hunnert an twenny five over! Let's see you do THAT on your Soobie! You have to realize that casting iron V8 blocks was in it's infancy in 1931 when the flathead was born, and many thought it couldn't be done. Henry insisted, his magical foundry guy answered, and the rest is history. The result was a hunk of iron that could theoretically be bored out even more, to .187 over, but you run the danger of having too thin a wall, which promotes overheating. This one in particular will get the Offy aluminum heads, an Offy intake, and since I don't like gas leaking all over, the two or three deuces will be replaced with a single 390 CFM Holley carb. With this displacement and those heads, compression ratio will go from a stock 6.8:1 to something closer to 9:1.
Stock Ford horsepower was rated at 100@3600, torque was 187@1800(!) . With the mods done, porting, relieving, displacement, cam and CR, we are looking at the far side of 180 hp, based on similar projects in the build books that went on to be dyno'd.
A good chunk of that increase is in what they call relieving, which comes down to removing metal so the intake and exhaust gasses can get to the top of the piston unrestricted. In Woody's pictures above, you can see the hourglass valleys cut into the block between the valves and the piston. While logic would tell you that removing metal will lower the CR, the increased flow more than makes up for the CR loss. Besides, this thing doesn't come with a knock sensor or engine management system, other than the one behind the steering wheel! One other thing to marvel at: these blocks have no, zero, nada...freeze plugs! Yet they survived on brute strength alone. So any machine work anticipated must be preceded by a complete magnafluxing and leak testing. Ours passed, obviously.

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/2/13 4:05 p.m.

Welcome, SearchDog!

Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/2/13 4:45 p.m.

In an effort to lend some GRM-credibility to "New Reader" SearchDog, let me point out that he purchased not one, but two Lotus Europas!

...brand new...

Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/2/13 4:48 p.m.
Woody wrote: In an effort to lend some GRM-credibility to "New Reader" SearchDog, let me point out that he purchased not one, but *two* Lotus Europas! ...brand new...

How's that phrase go? Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice...

JoeyM MegaDork
7/2/13 5:29 p.m.

welcome aboard

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