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MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/17/20 12:35 p.m.

Dropped the head off at the machine shop today for a valve job and positive valve stem seal installation. They expected it to be done in one or two weeks, and I'll be working on the short block in the meantime.

slantsix
slantsix Reader
9/23/20 1:48 p.m.
MadScientistMatt said:

That is something to think about with the coolant flow.

I'm planning on the latest redo to tweak the wiring harness a bit for sequential fuel control and open up the option of individual cylinder tuning. Some of the injector connectors broke, and the harness had originally been designed for an MS1.

Matt, Which MS Architectures allow for full sequential squirting ( with the appropriate cam sensor/ signal installed)?

 

Greg

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/24/20 12:17 p.m.

This requires an MS3 - either an MS3X or MS3Pro. This particular one is using a prototype MS3X variant.

Today's update: Time to start getting things back together. First step is to paint the engine block. I decided on a shade of red that's pretty close to the original 1966 color - makes sense on a white car with a red interior. I've occasionally thought about painting the side scallops on the car the same shade of red.

Before:

After:

malibuguy
malibuguy GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/24/20 2:39 p.m.

horsepower in a can red <3

 

slantsix
slantsix Reader
9/24/20 7:18 p.m.

I have used that stuff as a sub. For Chrysler red. I usually mask off the deck and cylinders however.

 

Easy cleanup with thinner.

 

 

Greg

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/24/20 10:58 p.m.

You probably already have your freeze plugs, but if not you can order a set for an SBC which is really cheap and readily available and comes with more 1 5/8 plugs than you need, plus some NPT oil plugs you can throw in a drawer. I got the set i used on my slant for like $8-9 on Amazon. 

I generally go out of my way to look for the 'deep' plugs in brass because they're more forgiving of imperfect surfaces and installation (i.e. in-frame replacement, grumble grumble..) but when you're building an engine on a stand and can fully inspect every bit of the sealing surface and have an easy time driving it dead-on etc i just buy whatever's cheap and gets here fastest! 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/25/20 11:51 a.m.

Yes, I did clean up the deck surface after that. And the cam bearings before installing the cam.

Got a call from the machine shop that the head needed a little more machine work, so it's not quite ready. In the meantime, I put the plugs in the ends of the oil galley.

Yes, I cleaned the overspray off the cam bearings after taking those pictures. :)

Then, I slipped in the cam, a used Comp 264S that I bought from a fellow slant six racer. Doug Dutra's book on slant six repairs suggest using a cylinder head bolt as a "handle" for handling the cam.

There have been several accounts of trouble with oil pump gears.

Next step will be to check to be sure I'm not setting myself up for oil pump gear issues.

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
9/30/20 12:10 a.m.

I read that one possible cause of oil pump drive gear wear was that many slant sixes have been rebuilt at this point and are running aftermarket oil pumps which are higher volume pumps than original, thus increasing average oil pressure and thus the drive requirement on the gear. I guess i am lucky that my pressure relief valve happens to be around 50 psi, but im currently in the process of trying different oil viscosities to get the 'minimum acceptable' hot idle oil pressure. When i first ran it on thick oil it made 50psi all the time and never dropped. I tried 5-20 and it drops to ~12psi lowest hot idle oil pressure. I'm probably going to settle on 10-30 and hope to end up making ~20. But at least it will only make 50 psi at idle when cold, vs all the time forever. For those people whose pressure relief valves are set higher or just not working at all, i can imagine people having 70-80 psi and not knowing it and wondering why their gears wear out so quick. 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/30/20 7:16 a.m.

This is an aftermarket pump, although I have (what I think is) the original sitting around as well. I considered trying to rig something to put extra oil on the gears; I suppose that's still an option at this point.

Currently kicking myself for missing out on the first batch of Doc's experimental oil pump gears.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
9/30/20 7:24 a.m.

Clearly the answer is a dry sump setup.

slantsix
slantsix Reader
9/30/20 7:27 a.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Clearly the answer is a dry sump setup.

Or an external Wet sump pump too. I have gone that route on one of my Slant 6's that ate an oil Pump gear.

 

Greg

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
10/2/20 12:27 p.m.

Now comes the part for screaming about problems with the parts I've ordered. To do the gear lapping requires a few more parts installed... and guess what isn't included with a set of slant six freeze plugs? The one at the back of the cam, it turns out.

So, I'll need to track a new one down. RockAuto only lists an expanding rubber plug, with steel ones out of stock. No thanks.

Speaking of RockAuto listings, as of today they list Enginetech part BC321J for slant six main bearings. But here's what happened when I tried to put them in.

The thrust bearing is too narrow...

...the hole for oiling is not where it should be....

...and they're a lot more than 0.020" undersized.

Come to think of it, that's five sets of bearings instead of four. It looks like they sold me some small block V8 bearings.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
10/2/20 1:44 p.m.

Rockauto parts don't fit?  Unpossible!

slantsix
slantsix Reader
10/2/20 1:52 p.m.

I have to see at home what size that rear cam plug is...... 2  9/64"

 

I buy them by the box. dorman has them. 

Listing for the proper part on amazon

 

For the bearings maybe you go v8 ones or maybe you got cast instead of forged crank bearings? that happens a bunch too.

 

Greg

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
10/2/20 2:44 p.m.

These definitely appear to be V8 bearings. Thanks for the cam plug recommendation! I was a little surprised that there isn't some sort of thrust bearing or thrust washer there too, but if there's not a hole in the cam plug on the 200,000 mile engine I pulled, that would suggest they're not all that important.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Dork
10/2/20 8:38 p.m.

Thrust bearing is the backside of the cam timing gear, that keeps the cam from going too far back. 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
10/15/20 11:49 a.m.

Picked up the cylinder head from the machine shop - a couple parts from their supplier were taking a little time to arrive. They added a three angle valve job, back-cut the valves, and installed positive valve stem seals. Since they were going with positive seals, they also assembled the valves with the 340-spec springs.

Speaking of suppliers, now I need to deal with RockAuto and the wrong bearing problem.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
10/22/20 1:05 p.m.

One of the tips in Doug Dutra's book is to use some valve lapping compound on the oil pump gear to break it in.

Put the cam sprocket on there and spin it with a wrench...

Then clean it up, as you definitely don't want any left over lapping compound in the engine. After cleaning, it looks like the wear pattern is right down the middle of the oil pump gear.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
10/23/20 12:40 p.m.

So, time to install the core plugs. I put a small coating of RTV around the holes, and line up a socket to pound the plugs in...

Then the core plug tried to go in sideways, I tried banging on the other side to straighten it out...

...and I get a core plug roaming around in the water jacket.

Finally, I was able to fish it out with a hook and a pliers.

The other plugs managed to get seated without any drama.

Also attempting to contact RockAuto about the wrong bearing listing in the catalog, since the remaining core plugs did not meet today's quota of drama. It's past their window for a refund, which I can understand, but I'll see if they will respond to a request to correct the catalog listing. The regular automated "report a problem with an order" does not allow reporting a problem past the return window. So I tried to file for a warranty claim since that is the only button allowed on the site. No, reporting it as defective on the grounds that it can't possibly be installed is not grounds for a warranty claim, and I don't have anything else I can do with that button. So I'm trying an email to service@rockauto.com; I'll see if they respond.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
10/23/20 3:54 p.m.

Update - RockAuto has agreed to refund the bearings.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
10/28/20 12:08 p.m.

The bearings are on their way back, need to get new ones on order. Meanwhile, I did a bit of cleaning up on the timing cover and oil pan, and gave them a rattle can paint job.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/6/20 12:23 p.m.

The correct bearings will be here next week, so time to see what I can do in the meantime. Well, I should be careful what I wish for.

Either this was some really bad surface prep, or I accidentally left the paint out to dry in a hurricane. I think it's the former, but haven't fully ruled out the latter.

Either way, I'm pretty sure I can solve it with an industrial-sized Makita drill. Actually, I often think I can solve problems with an industrial-sized Makita drill. Didn't Maslow say something about this mentality?

Well, it does seem to be working...

The oil pan, repainted. Seems to be holding its color better this time.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
12/31/20 12:23 p.m.

How's this project going?

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
1/8/21 12:11 p.m.

More bearing mistakes. Rockauto listed V8 bearings. Summit listed bearings for an engine built 10 years later with a cast crank. But I finally got ahold of the right bearings.

Picked up some Plastigage - I had somehow imagined it would be like Silly Putty and you'd measure the thickness. Nope - it's a thin line that you measure how much it spreads out when you squish it.

Normally you put the crank timing sprocket in place before installing the crank. With the Romac timing chain I have, though, there's several keyways to allow adjusting timing. I'm checking if any slant six fans know of tricks to get it clocked before installing the crank, but I may need to install that part after.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa UltraDork
1/8/21 12:46 p.m.

Interesting that there are only 4 main bearings in there.  The weakest Ford block I know of (post '62) had 5 main bearings, most of them had 7.

Any concerns with the bottom ends coming apart on the Slant Sixes?

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