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2K4Kcsq
2K4Kcsq Reader
6/20/13 4:46 a.m.

I dig this. . . you might even say I encourage this kind of behavior.

can't 13" slicks be had these days?

also, why bother with too much bodywork on a lemons/chump car? I like the ratty rust it has, just lower it a little with some fat wide slicks and call it a day. it will still scare the lemons out of people with that engine running hard out of the corners

party on.

also, favorite quote on this thread: I have been down that road with a built M10 fun while it lasted plus race gas

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
6/20/13 2:12 p.m.
granth wrote:
irish44j wrote:
jr02518 wrote: Before you spend the time and effort of putting the M42 into your E21 I would spend the time really driving a car with that motor.

You mean like this?

I have an 85 318i, which I drove and raced for a year with the M10, then swapped to and M42 (with Conforti chip) last winter. It's not that I dislike the M10, it's fine other than never being able to get my M10B18 to idle well (and yes, I tried all the tricks/fixes). But frankly the M10 in stock form simply doesn't have the grunt that I want for the track or fast street. And I would prefer to race with a stock/stock-ish engine rather than try to build an M10 for the power I want.

Bingo the key words are " race with a stock/stock-ish engine rather than try to build an M10 for the power I want." I have been down that road with a built M10 fun while it lasted plus race gas. Now I have no drivetrain in my 2002 race car, would like 150/160WHP from stock/stock-ish engine what do you think? I have 150WHP (JDM/ECU and bolt on's) in a 1900lbs miata tons of fun how can I make the same happen in the 2002?

I've had this odd thought in the back of my mind of putting a Subie 2.5 boxer into an e30 (turbo or not), but maybe that's just because I rallycross with a bunch of Subies and daily drive a WRX. I'm sure it would be a momentous PITA though, and if I did that I'd have to go whole-hog and do some kind of AWD conversion as well, just for fun.

There's a guy in my town who is dropping a big six into his 2002 - I don't recall if it's an M30 or something newer though. My only concern there would be throwing off the weight balance. I think an M42 in a 2002 would be plenty quick, personally. In my e30 I have no complaints.

I'll also note that at the LeMons race last weekend there were a pair of M42-powered e30s running and while not as quick as the fastest 'i" cars, they were quicker than our M20 ETA and the engines held up fine. In Germany there's a whole spec rally series for M42-powered e30s and e36s.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
6/20/13 2:18 p.m.
2K4Kcsq wrote: also, why bother with too much bodywork on a lemons/chump car? I like the ratty rust it has, just lower it a little with some fat wide slicks and call it a day. it will still scare the lemons out of people with that engine running hard out of the corners

mostly because bodywork is free or at least cheap, and I'm an artsy type who will go crazy if I don't make the car look good (or at least my opinion of good). The whole patina look really isn't my thing. Now....if I had an LSx under the hood or something really awesome, then maybe I leave it rusty/sleeper. M42 isn't exactly badass enough to pull that off though :)

Also I'm starting to lean more toward doing a nice weekender/trackday restore on this now, since I can run Lemons/Chump in the e30 with the guys I ran with last weekend. Plus the expense of doing a Lemons/chump car is really quite high relative to a street restore - I learned that working on the ETA e30......It's a $400 car with $thousands invested in safety equipment, cage, seats, wheels/tires, etc. I don't really have the time and money at the moment to built a full-on racecar. Plus I have a serious aversion to other people driving my cars on the track (though I've let them a few times) since I put so much care/time/thought into my builds - at least in my own mind :)

IDK, we'll see how it goes. I haven't totally settled on an end-goal yet, but I really won't have for at least 6 months, since I have stuff to do on the car that will be fine for racing or for street. Then I'll start thinking about the end goal.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
6/20/13 2:20 p.m.

I will note that my inspiration for buying this car was watching youtube vids of an M42-powered e21 blowing everyone away at Summit Point LeMons last year. I think (assuming I improve my driving) that an M42 e21 would be a top-10 finisher barring major breakdown or wreck at many Lemons races.

granth
granth New Reader
6/22/13 4:33 a.m.
Bingo the key words are " race with a stock/stock-ish engine rather than try to build an M10 for the power I want." I have been down that road with a built M10 fun while it lasted plus race gas. Now I have no drivetrain in my 2002 race car, would like 150/160WHP from stock/stock-ish engine what do you think? I have 150WHP (JDM/ECU and bolt on's) in a 1900lbs miata tons of fun how can I make the same happen in the 2002? There's a guy in my town who is dropping a big six into his 2002 - I don't recall if it's an M30 or something newer though. My only concern there would be throwing off the weight balance. I think an M42 in a 2002 would be plenty quick, personally. In my e30 I have no complaints.

I have never driven an M42 car, how are the stock motors? do the pull up to 7k good? How much effort to install in a 2002? What trans? how much are good used motors going for these days?

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
6/22/13 7:37 p.m.
granth wrote:
Bingo the key words are " race with a stock/stock-ish engine rather than try to build an M10 for the power I want." I have been down that road with a built M10 fun while it lasted plus race gas. Now I have no drivetrain in my 2002 race car, would like 150/160WHP from stock/stock-ish engine what do you think? I have 150WHP (JDM/ECU and bolt on's) in a 1900lbs miata tons of fun how can I make the same happen in the 2002? There's a guy in my town who is dropping a big six into his 2002 - I don't recall if it's an M30 or something newer though. My only concern there would be throwing off the weight balance. I think an M42 in a 2002 would be plenty quick, personally. In my e30 I have no complaints.

I have never driven an M42 car, how are the stock motors? do the pull up to 7k good? How much effort to install in a 2002? What trans? how much are good used motors going for these days?

Stock they have a 6500 limited, up to 7k with the Conforti chip. They pull well to redline. The RG318is rally series in Germany (a spec M42 car series) uses a spec chip with 8k redline, which they say hasn't been a problem, though you get valve float over about 7k they say. I really enjoy the engine, even as someone who daily drives a 280+whp tuned WRX. The M42 is plenty peppy and with the chip has a really nice powerband.

Install shouldn't be too hard since it's the same size as an M10, but you'll need to fab up mounts. It's been done many times in 2002s and e21s though.

M42 has the Getrag 240 5-speed, but it's different from the G240 that came in M10 cars (different bellhousing).

Also the M42 revs much better with the single-mass M20 flywheel conversion.

I bought two M42s in the last 2 years, both with transmissions, both complete except for AC and alternator. I got one for $250 and the other for $150. The $250 one is in my e30 right now. THe other one I'm building for the e21.

yamaha
yamaha UberDork
6/24/13 10:28 a.m.

In reply to irish44j:

They are quite peppy little engines....pretty well built as well.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
6/24/13 4:47 p.m.

^^ just gotta make sure the timing chain/tensioners/guides are in good shape and updated, and from what I hear they're pretty indestructible in stock/near-stock form.

yamaha
yamaha UberDork
6/24/13 10:47 p.m.

In reply to irish44j:

So long as you keep fresh oil in it and the water pump keeps cooling them.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
6/25/13 5:38 p.m.
yamaha wrote: In reply to irish44j: So long as you keep fresh oil in it and the water pump keeps cooling them.

I would say the water pump applies to pretty much all engines, lol.

Fresh oil is never a problem for my project cars since they don't see all that many miles.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
7/9/13 5:54 p.m.

A bit of an update. Did some horse-trading. A page or two back I noted that I had an interesting aftermarket speaker enclosure for the back deck. When I posted it around I got some interest, and a few cash offers that seemed perhaps low, but who knows.

Apparently that piece was made by an American aftermarket distributor that made similar pieces for various import cars back in the 80s. In any case, it was well-built, but not something I really needed. I like lightweight in my cars if possible, and a big speaker box on the rear deck doesn't fit that criteria.

After a bit more chatting around, I ended doing a straight trade of the speaker box to a gent in Michigan for a pair of new Meyle control arms and swaybar bushings. The '77-early '78 e21 used a different control arm from the later cars (though I haven't yet figured out exactly what the difference was), but apparently this guy had the 77 LCAs but a 79 car so couldn't use them. In any case, we just did a straight swap, which gave me pretty good value - at various parts places the LCAs go for $160 each, so with the bushings that's about $340 worth of front suspension stuff that I got in trade for something I wasn't going to use anyways.

Also, if I do end up doing Lemons/Chump, I'm pretty sure that a "trade" like that doesn't apply to the car budget deduction. But whatever.

Anyhow, they arrived today, and a bit of a ?? in that the two LCAs in the box actually appear to be different brands. One is Meyle for sure (stamped on the balljoint) and the other one is unknown (I don't recognize the logo on the balljoint). At one end one is narrower than the other as well, but with the bushings in they are the same. Looking around, most places list the part number as "OEM BMW Part" and are not specific on brand (Meyle or otherwise). Whatever, as long as they fit and work, the brand isn't much a concern as they both look sufficiently beefy.

so, baby steps on this project. Still doing some networking, and have found a few people (including the seller of the LCAs) who have a number of other parts I may want (LSD diffs, M42 swap stuff, suspension stuff, etc) so we'll see what's in the budget and what else I can horse-trade for perhaps.

Mr_Estrotica
Mr_Estrotica New Reader
7/9/13 9:20 p.m.

Gah! I know that I took a picture showing the differences of early vs. late LCAs when I freshened my old e21 up. I had a '77, but a PO had swapped everything out to the later style suspension. It took a few rounds of receiving the same "early" parts from the supplier before I got wise to what was going on.

I remember the late LCA being a bit more Dr. Seuss shaped on the subframe mounting side, and the swaybar eyelet was miles off.

Mr_Estrotica
Mr_Estrotica New Reader
7/9/13 9:29 p.m.

I did manage to find someone else's picture with the two side-by-side. Early left. Late right. It doesn't showcase the differences quite as well as an overhead shot, but you can kinda see that the later unit is more aerodynamically curvaceous.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
7/10/13 8:39 p.m.

thanks for following up - I actually have this build thread also over on an e21 forum, so I got a pretty extensive response from one of the resident experts there, lol.

Apparently they relocated the mount point on the subframe to try to "cure" the 55mph shimmy that the cars were famous for (and apparently it didn't work). But apparently the front subframe, LCAs, and swaybars all go together for the early models, and all three parts have to go together for later models....no interchangibility, so definitely have to be a bit careful :)

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/3/13 6:44 p.m.

nothing much new to report. Today I ran out to my buddy Viet's place DANGEROUS MOTORWERKES and he mounted up my other two loose DMack rally tires for the e30 onto two more bottlecaps I managed to score up. Still need to paint them blue, but that's a project for a random evening.

In other stuff, I'm re-doing the GT6's exhaust system this week, and pulled the header only to find a nice 1" long crack in one of the tubes in a very inconvenient place. Had to get the welder out and try to patch weld some very thin metal (it's a 40-year old header!). That was fun. Hopefully it works.

Doing a few other little things on that car, up on the stands right now.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/irish44j/BMW%20320i%20e21%20build/DSCF6970.jpg" alt="" />

also pulled the header off the e21 project to sell. It's a Stahl header, so it's worth more than I paid for the car. Since I"m not using the M10B20 in that car, selling the header, exhaust, and eventually the engine/tranny.

well-designed piece

nicksta43
nicksta43 SuperDork
8/4/13 12:42 p.m.

How much for it?

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/4/13 8:13 p.m.

For the header? IDK. I've had several inquiries already but was waiting to see if my original buyer needed it (he doesn't, it appears). PM me what you think it's worth. Note that I cut it off just after the collector. There was no flange or joint there, it was welded all the way to the back of the car :P

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/4/13 8:13 p.m.

So today I managed to get a "lease" on the other side of my garage from my wife, who usually parks there. This allows me to have both project cars in the garage at once. So, the e21 got to come up front. Didn't have any buddies around, so just hooked it up to the 4Runner and towed it out with my wife's friend steering it. The 4Runner BARELY fits through the gate to my backyard, so it was a tight tow.

In the garage with the GT6

I love working on small cars....so much space

Did some inspection and a little work on it as well, after doing some exhaust welding on the GT6 (not fun)

Pulled off the license plate mount and the finishing piece on the back. A little bit of rust there, but not much. Pretty pleased to find that.

Also pulled off the trunk seal, and there's some rust under there but nothing through, and it'll clean up fine with a wire wheel.

First order of business was to pull off the front bumper. Not only is it hideous (10x worse than an e30 diving board), but it sticks out a foot and takes up valuable garage space. Not sure what I'll do for bumpers....tuck the stockers, euro bumpers, no bumpers. But for now....no bumpers.

Much more svelte now

So there's the engine. Already have a couple people possibly interested in buying it, so that's a plus.

Also, it has a Stahl header, which will be sold with it (depending on offer) or separate, since I've already had a few people ask about it. Nice find.

So that's it for now. Baby steps to get going on this. Once I get the engine out in a few weeks I'll get moving more rapidly on things, I think.

Oh, and the spare tire....old school

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/7/13 10:18 p.m.

Spent my evening on my back. Not with my wife, but with the car....unhooking the exhaust, driveshaft, shift linkage (all very oily and greasy), electrical, cooling, pulling the radiator, etc etc. The engine is sitting on the mounts with a jackstand under the tranny now. So, I should be ready to hoist the engine out this weekend.

(I'm sure I have totally forgotten one little stupid thing attached to the engine that will turn out to be a major pain in the ass to remove when I hoist the engine halfway up and then realize it. But I hope not, lol)

yay for tools and mess

also happened to notice this:

hmm....since I didn't know what e21 seats look like and these "matched" it seemed.....but now that I actually look at them, looks like someone put some e30 comfort seats in it, with their own seatbelt receptacles, lol. Whatever, wasn't planning to use them anyhow.

radiator out. When I drained the coolant it looked brand new. Good sign for the next owner of the engine....

one last thing: I really hate this thing for some reason:

Main task this weekend should be changing an aluminum radiator and M20 expansion tank into the e30 (freeing up my M42 rad for the e21 eventually). But we'll see...

nicksta43
nicksta43 SuperDork
8/7/13 10:24 p.m.

If you could locate the unobtainium FOHA front airdam for it those are my favorite. I had one on my 82' that I never should have sold. They look amazing with no front bumper.

nicksta43
nicksta43 SuperDork
8/7/13 10:40 p.m.

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/8/13 9:44 p.m.

nick - your pic doesn't work...

--

So got the engine out in an hour today (and most of that time involved trying to figure out how to get my hoist out of its storage spot boxed in by the car on jack stands, lol).

Nothing terribly interesting happened except having to jury-rig my chainfall since my hooks wouldn't fit in the little tiny lifting eyes on the block. I need to get some smaller ones because I have this problem every time I do it and end up fabbing up attachments using other stuff.

In the topic of "little things that I love that BMW thought of" - the front lip of the e21's engine bay, right in the middle, is bent toward the front of the car (coming from vertical on the edges). I'm quite certain BMW did this so that when you lift the engine out (or in), the oil pan has a nice "sloped" edge to slide down rather than getting hung up on a vertical ridge. I can't see any other reason for it, so that must be it :)

Anyhow, some pics as usual.

you can see the oil pan against the "bent lip" here, kind of

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/irish44j/BMW%20320i%20e21%20build/DSCF7029.jpg

time to start cleaning I guess...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/irish44j/BMW%20320i%20e21%20build/DSCF7033.jpg

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/9/13 11:32 p.m.

So today I got out the hose and some brillo pads and did some scrubbing in the engine bay to see what I have to deal with in there. The prognosis: Not too bad, actually. No rust-through anyplace. The worst part was the battery tray, which I ripped out anyhow (battery will go to the trunk). Still need to get the grinder out and grind off all the mount tabs at some point. Removed a few other things, etc.

The main rust areas look to be the front left corner behind the battery tray (just some peeling paint and a bit of rust), the driver's side frame rail down below the BMC/CMC/BB, and an area on the passenger inner fender where heat from the header peeled the paint up and caused some rust. Otherwise, everything is surface rust that should clean up pretty easily with a wire wheel.

oh, so here's a question: Anyone know what this is? It's a hardline that goes up under the radiator support and ends on the driver's side (wasn't attached to anything), and then runs back to the back of the car someplace (didn't investigate yet). Can't think of what it could be.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j85/irish44j/BMW%20320i%20e21%20build/DSCF7039.jpg

and some pics of the bay "cleaned up"

frame rail rust

up by the headlight

subframe is in very good shape and cleaned up nicely

passenger inner wheel well

Ian F
Ian F PowerDork
8/10/13 7:08 a.m.

Unknown hard line: EVAP vent line from the gas tank? It should be connected to a charcoal canister up in the front of the car somewhere, but often removed by some DPO. Personally, this is one emissions device I'd add to a car if it doesn't have one... My Mini, for example... since I'm getting really tired of my garage (and my house) smelling like gasoline...

irish44j
irish44j UberDork
8/10/13 6:54 p.m.

yep, that's what it is. I traced it and the evap can was chillin under the battery tray, not hooked to anything.

good point on that. Since I"m taking the one off the rallycross car (which parks outside anyhow), I can just use it on this one. The one on this car was in pretty bad shape.

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